Thai Protesters Brace For Crackdown As Compromise Rejected

[hc.sandbergen]

I am very sorry for a lot of comments on this item.

The westeners seems to understand the Thai people very well.

The only thing Abhisit should do is to step down from his illegal prime ministers post and organize new elections.

Herman

[TheOldWolf]

I think it was "whiterussian", that said it was 5 diplomats there. Two from Europe, Belgium and Denmark. I don´t remember i other 3, but there were no quote

[Skywalker69]

Oh well, thank you to the Reds and Thaksin for destroying Thailand.

Abhisit will go down as the most educated Thai Prime Minister who (as often is the case with intelligent people) had no common sense whatsoever. He has already lost so why not just go for a good old British compromise where noone loses face. Where the buffalo smiley when you need it?

Abhist is a strong PM and a good one IMHO, seems honest and educated and with common sense too, he does not just take the easy way out which would truly be the wrong way out. What else could he do right now, surrender to the thugs and bully boys like a weakling when he really is not in the wrong either?? He has already agreed very fairly and sensibly to bring new elections forward a whole year and the late Autumn is surely soon enough. The world is still recovering from the biggest recession in decades so the last thing we need at this point in time is an election and a change of direction when the recover is actually going rather well, (same in England where a change in Government right now would be disastrous at this stage of the recovery) . Also an election here will be pointless if the losing side can still continue to accuse it of being rigged with vote buying and other corruptions yet again, so this has to be avoided at all costs. SO AS I HAVE SAID MANY TIMES HERE, AND THIS IS SO SO VERY IMPORTANT, WITHOUT THE U.N. OR ANOTHER INDEPENDENT EXTERNAL BODY MONITORING AND POLICING ANY NEW ELECTIONS HERE, IT WILL NOT SOLVE ANY PROBLEMS AS IT SIMPLY AGAIN WONT BE RECOGNISED BY THE LOSING SIDE AS AN HONEST FAIR ELECTION AND THESE CONFLICTS WILL JUST UNDERSTANDABLY RETURN WITH A VENGEANCE. This all needs time to set up too so the late Autumn is really the earliest and a good and intelligent choice for all sides. THerefore all the intelligent honourable Red supporters should now go home and prepare for getting honourable ordinary folk standing as capable candidates for proper elections in the late Autumn. Then let the army deal with clearing the streets of the terrorist low life bully boy leaders left behind (who are probably on the promise of a big pay out from chief terrorist Thaksin if he succeeds in his aim of getting his money back).

If I was a Thai and had a vote here, as a reasonably educated and intelligent non elitist person (as I think I am) I would vote for the Red side but only IF they stopped supporting Thaksin and his thug cronies and stood honest capable Thai folk as candidates. I am sure many honest and fair minded Thais would do the same and positively vote for them too. Supporters of Thaksin are either on the promise of some big payouts from him or have their heads up their backsides as they obviously cannot clearly see what is so obviously going on here. Yes clearly this is all currently just about Thaksin wanting his ill gotten money and power back and he is obviously happy to pay out a lot to his thugs to succeed irrespective of the harm it will do to ordinary decent Thai folk and Thailand previously known as LOS. This current conflict is about Thaksin's money actually not about the Thai people and their future prosperity, and this is why I and many many folk in both Thailand and the rest of the world see Thaksin as an absolutely awful and evil man. Anyone surely should easily just be able to open their eyes and minds and clearly see that he is just that, the evidence against him is just too complete and compelling to see it any other way. Jeez how much proof do these people want to see Thaksin is not worth spilling a single drop blood over or even bothering with any longer so lets all forget him and ignore the prat, he just needs capturing and bringing back here squealing and crying to serve his sentence plus any others he receives for doubtless and numerous even more serious crimes not yet put to trial!!!

Also the Red Shirts should want the time to rid themselves of the convicted and obviously greedy self centred despicable crook Thalsin and their bully boy self proclaimed leaders and get themselves a real ordinary This leader capable of becoming a PM and non corrupt too. Make the Red Shirts a decent political force rather than being so stupid as they are now supporting the man who has robbed their country of billions (but hey Thailand got some of it back). No way would Thailand be recognised in the world if an undoubted and fairly convicted crook and megalomaniac such as Thaksin became PM, talk about losing face the country would be an international laughing stock, it beggars belief. So the Reds need time to get rid of these crooks and bullies and decent folk will start supporting the Red Shirts as their political philosophy of power to the ordinary Thai people rather than the Elite ruling class is a good one, and one we fought in many western countries over the last century and for the better of the ordinary people who make up the vast majority of all countries. So you see I am totally anti Thaksin and any other crook but I am not against the Red's political doctrine of a peoples power party and not an elitist party (as indeed Thaksin is one of the biggest Elitists), I just want to see common sense prevail and no more violence or blockading of Bangkok or anywhere else. The Thai people should knuckle down to get the country on the road to recovery and new hopefully honest democratic elections later in the year as Abhist has honourably promised.

Post of the day! Thanks!

[BigWheelMan]

Tom, If Abhisit goes forward with a military style bloodbath to purge Bangkok of the red shirts, then the potential for civil war in Thailand grows by the day I merely brought up the obvious fact that the city of Bangkok relies on their food ( and for that matter their water supply) from those same folks in the countryside, and that in the end if the situation does turn to civil war the farmers hold the ultimate trump card It's not a pretty situation, hopefully Abhisit will eventually realize this and disolve parliment and call for immdeiate elections BTW I never said that the farmers are well off, I just stated a fact that they are only a generation away from the third world circumstances that many of them grew up in, so if things do get ugly they will know how to survive much better than the citizens of Bangkok! Haven't you ever heard the old addage "don't bite the hand that feeds you" it sure seems apprapot in this situation

I don`t think so.

Most of the peasants up here in the North are only concerned with keeping a low profile and making a living.

No farmers or food producering companies in their right minds are going to cease sending produce to Bangkok that is probably their main source of income, unless they are pressured by threats and imtimidation.

Edited April 24, 2010 by BigWheelMan

[Foggy Bottom]

Oh well, thank you to the Reds and Thaksin for destroying Thailand.

Abhisit will go down as the most educated Thai Prime Minister who (as often is the case with intelligent people) had no common sense whatsoever. He has already lost so why not just go for a good old British compromise where noone loses face. Where the buffalo smiley when you need it?

Main issue is not his arrogance, not his intelligence, nor even his common sense....

they just expected him to act like a Thai, and he DIDN'T!]

Must have been quite confusing for many of them....

He acted like a national leader would be expected to act most anywhere else.

And there is the problem, he's really Thai, but his education bred much of the raw roots out of him and replaced it with a proper international perspective.

Which of course is rather confusing to many, if not all, Thais.

Farang BAA!

Therein (apart from being a Geordie and Newcastle Utd supporter) lies his greatest strength - he's mostly outside the entrenched methodologies and corruptions, he also has seen alternatives work and work well - remember he returned to Thailand when UK was at its economic peak and so didn't see the crash first hand. He's seen what Thailand could become if the foundation work is done properly, which he's started with the free health care and education mandates. However, it's likely he has not mastered the art of having eyeballs in the back of his head and a forked tongue.

Being a Geordie he may also be too straight talking away from the media (most of us are) and this may be where he loses allies in tough decisions, which in turn could be the cause of perceptions that he wavers and hesitates. Never forget too that "Mr Fence Sitter Statesman" Chuan Leepai is his mentor - a diligent, honest, and hard working PM, yes, but also widely criticised by Thais as being unable to make a decision if his next meal relied on it. Some of that must be influencing Abhisit's "if you don't know what to do, do nothing" public face.

[Foggy Bottom]

Re the grenade attack I have an open mind as to who fired it and from where. The Government say they have proof the Red shirts fired it from Lumpini park captured on BTS cctv. That being the case don't they have an obligation to release said video.

If the government wishes to make any form of "stickable" case against the perpetrators, and they genuinely have such video evidence, then releasing it to the media would not only be subjudicy (sp? - it's not in my spell checker) but also could have it dismissed from court by the defence as having prejudiced public and judiciary opinion via the mass media. Irrefutable evidence is best saved for initial presentation within the courtroom.

Update:

AFP: Myanmar opposition leader Suu Kyi says Thailand's political crisis shows that constitution drawn up by military can never deliver stability

She may be on to something. So fix the constitution. Write it with input from citizens, business leaders, social activists, NGOs, military, police, judges, lawyers, politicians, civil servants, academics, all political parties etc. After all parties agree, hold a referendum to let all the people decide. Then dissolve parliament and hold elections.

They did - in 1997 under a Democrat government.

[AleG]

The red shirts are not terrorists, they are peaceful protesters. Governments use the word terrorists as an excuse to kill innocent people. Its very irresponsible of some posters coming on here labeling these ordinary people as terrorists. I think posters on here would prefer Thailand to be ruled more like Burma.

Terrorist is too strong a word for the bulk of the red shirts, but certain elements within them are very deserving of the adjective.

In any case, a protest that goes by the "Do what we say or we won't stop, and if you try to stop us there will be a bloodbath" is not a peaceful one; they derive their power from the promise of wreaking havoc and death if the government tries to enforce the law.

To make an analogy, if I walk into your house and tell you to give me your wallet or I'll shoot you in the head, as long as you do what I say there won't be any physical violence but that doesn't make it OK.

From the 10th clashes there's indisputable evidence of heavily armed men operating within red shirt lines, there's also the confessions of the arrested actor.

But even if the red shirts would actually be 100 innocent of any act of physical violence, their continuous protests and flaunting of the laws has created an environment in which agitators of any stripe can thrive in relative safety. Bangkok must regain the rule of law (for whatever value of rule of law is the standard here) so that acts of violence can be prevented or properly prosecuted.

[truethailand]

I have just read this thread and for the first time I am compelled to join this forum. Everybody is entitled to an opinion so I will give mine. It would appear that most people on this thread are based in the more affluent areas of Thailand and have never ventured further north than Don Muang Airport and if they have it has never been for any extended period.

Posters using phrases like 'minority rabble' just indicate their total ignorance of what is really happeninng in Thailand. How can 20,000,000 people be a minority. Yes 20,000,000, that is the amount of people living in the NE regions of Thailand. Add the North and they clearly have a majority. It has always been a non written policy of many previous thai Governments to keep these people poor and keep them this way so they go down to the 'smoke' and take jobs to help feed their families. Without these people BKK would shut in a few days. Posters should be aware if all migrants workers went home South of Ayuttyha would cease to function.

Sorry I slightly digressed there. This is a class war between the old elite and the new money. The old elite has paid the army to do there dirty work for centuries. When they dont like a government they call a General and we have them removed. The new money has enlisted the help of the poor to further their cause but there will be a price to pay when they finally take power. The poor have now been empowered and the genie is out of the bottle and he is not going back. Forget Thaksin, he is just the bus driver for this crusade and on his return he understands he will have to retain that support to keep power.

Living amongst these people I have realised Thaksin is just a figurehead who either personally, or with help from interested parties, has managed to raise enough funds to keep this protest thriving. These people want social reform and a bigger piece of the pie.

There can only be one outcome if you think logically. That outcome may come tomorrow or 1 year from now or 10 years from now, but be sure it will come. This is not just about fair elections it about winning back power that was unlawfully stole from them in a coup. Not only do they want elections, the leaders of this movement want removal of all the money families that run Thailand. You remove them and there is nobody to instigate another coup. The 'Amataya (elite) will do whatever it takes to keep a grip on this country, even throw grenades into their own supporters to cause one side to fight the other. They are looking for a reason, to justify to the watching world, a ruthless crackdown.

What is scaring the current elite is the finances flowing into this movment and where it might be coming from. That takky chappie has been on a jolly around the world for 3 years.... I dont think so. I believe he has been flying around garnering support to enable his return. Making promises to smaller nations of trade links and access to do business in Thailand in return for donations to his movement. Haven't the arabs been trying to get access to grow rice here but have been told you can only own 49%. Paints a nice picture for Thaksin,returns to power and then changes current legislation to allow the arabs 100% access to grow rice here. Oh where is all the rice grown.... yes red shirt country and they will get xxx more money per tonne. Game over..Tilt. Dont you just love this guy

The above is just a scenario of what might be happening but please take your blinkers off and forget your own insignificant life and see things from both sides. Thaksin is a poor man by Thailands elite standards and cannot afford to finance this movement alone. Somebody is helping him.

Yes my support leans towards the reds but I want a peaceful conclusion to all this and no more deaths. I have got 3 children born here in Isaan and if somebody does not remove these faceless people from power my kids may grow up with no prospects, no money and no future. I apologise to all living in Bkk and my feelings to all grieving relatives on both sides.

This fight for reform was won two years ago when that funeral pyrah( maybe mispelt) was lit.

[Publicus]

http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/S...ory_518839.html

You might check out the above link for Aung Sang Suu Kyi's opinion on why the military orchestrated Abhisit govt and the military's constitution are doomed to failure.

Suu Kyi's quote: 'A new government coming to power under a constitution drawn up by the military will never be stable,' he cited her as saying. 'We do not need to see very far. We just see Thailand,' she said. 'Thaksin was an elected person. The military seized the power from an elected person. The constitution was drawn up by the military,' she said.

Thanks for the post; at least Suu Kyi agrees with me. Anyone want to slam her? I hope not, unlike myself she has, without a doubt, earned her opinion.

If those were really Suu Kyi's words, I fancy Thailand's chances more than Burma!

It is a fair enough comment from Suu Kyi. One word of warning is the Straits times was the media source caught editing the last video of the dead journo to fit their normal line. But Suu Kyi has earned her right to comment providing the Straits Times isnt pulling another editorial glitch of the type that has already undermined their main journo covering this

Where's Thailand's Suu Kyi? No such thing male, female or otherwise. The public figures in Thailand since 1932 have been an uninterupted succession of political clowns and jerks (with due deference to flash in the pan (crisis) moments such as those advancing Chuan and Anand). The saying "cometh the hour, cometh the man" is seriously outdated for its sexism, but remains a principle and optimistic belief that hasn't any relevance or application to the former LOS. Based on history and the developments of the past several years to the present especially, we best dismiss any such possible development from Thai culutre, society, civilization. Look at the record of history, at the present situation and circumstance and, sadly, the stark reality of the facts and truth is that there inherently can't be a uniting or transformative leader in Thailand - it's still futile. We may have to wait until the 22nd century to possibly begin to see any signs of hope Thailand could produce a Suu Ki. Sad but true.

[DagonKhan]

Re the grenade attack I have an open mind as to who fired it and from where. The Government say they have proof the Red shirts fired it from Lumpini park captured on BTS cctv. That being the case don't they have an obligation to release said video.

If the government wishes to make any form of "stickable" case against the perpetrators, and they genuinely have such video evidence, then releasing it to the media would not only be subjudicy (sp? - it's not in my spell checker) but also could have it dismissed from court by the defence as having prejudiced public and judiciary opinion via the mass media. Irrefutable evidence is best saved for initial presentation within the courtroom.

Has that ever happened in Thailand?

[Motoon]

Just out of curiousity... did any1 here visit the protest site yesterday afternoon?

UDD claimed 40 diplomats would visit. Did they recieve any visits? Any information available on this?

No, they delivered a letter to the UN and their imagination ran amok, as usual. They imagined that diplomatic corps were visiting them at the bamboo palace.

There were actually diplomats at Rajprasong yesterday for a visit. Guessing from the news clip a group of about 8-9. They had a talk behind stage with the core leaders, handed over a letter and refused invitation to the main stage as against embassy protocol. I don't remember all present embassies except Austrian and Russian and some middle East.

About the 30 days proposal. Does it not strike anyone that the 30 days proposal came after Methee was apprehended and leaked some sensitive intelligence including names of other gunmens and further gun stashes (facts reported by news and not yet verified - Police refuses to comment at the moment)?

I've gone back to the statement by Jatuporn/Nattawut of April 11, where they clearly stated that they do not know the identity of the gunmen nor their whereabouts but anyway the Red shirt leaders further stated that they are certain that these are soldiers unhappy with the current government. After Methee's arrest the same two stated that Methee is not a core leader but just an ally and that any actions on his own responsibility. Furthermore he only attended "some" of the group meetings. The red shirt are not able to control him nor are they responsible for any damage done. I still wonder where the first statement of April 11 fits in. If you know that someone is using your cause for terrorist acts wouldn't you be keen to name such culprits in order to not be liable and keep your movement peaceful as you promised? It goes like accessory to murder/manslaughter or so, if you don't - at least that's what I learned. Maybe some of the red member on this forum care to give a logical, unbiased (shit, I just spilled coffee through my nose...) explanation?

I still don't care about colors and I still think that the Yellows started these kind of problems. I still think that no matter what government, what party and what senate, the root problems will always remain. I still think that Taksin was crooked although he understood very well that it takes little to throw some breadcrumbs eastwards and earn deadfast loyalty. I still think that all governments before Taksin would have had the same opportunity but were too ignorant and caught in their believe that the "better born" 1% should own the country. I still still think would Taksin have remained PM we would now be par with Venezuela or Bolivia - read it up. I still think that Taksin is an ignorant, self obsessed control freak who thought that no laws apply to him and his kin - and never considered that he could have become an example by just paying taxes, taxes that would have gone to the further development and education of the "base". I still think that the Yellow leaders should have been brought to court. I still think that the Red leaders consist of a very unhealthy mix of fanatics and convicted criminals, that might or might not have read "Mein Kampf" and that were the first to spill blood. I still think that the Government should announce a house dissolution within 3-6 months, come to agreement with their coalition partners that they'll throw their seats together again, inform the multicolor shirt/ facebook group to further gather the undecided masses and get them to vote and get themselves a fair chance to win a majority through votes. I still think that Anupong deep inside is a melon...

Alas, all of this is of course a very personal and therefore with certitude biased position. All I know is that the whole color problem is dividing the country in a way that will leave very deep scars for a long time.

[truethailand]

Oh well, thank you to the Reds and Thaksin for destroying Thailand.

Abhisit will go down as the most educated Thai Prime Minister who (as often is the case with intelligent people) had no common sense whatsoever. He has already lost so why not just go for a good old British compromise where noone loses face. Where the buffalo smiley when you need it?

Abhist is a strong PM and a good one IMHO, seems honest and educated and with common sense too, he does not just take the easy way out which would truly be the wrong way out. What else could he do right now, surrender to the thugs and bully boys like a weakling when he really is not in the wrong either?? He has already agreed very fairly and sensibly to bring new elections forward a whole year and the late Autumn is surely soon enough. The world is still recovering from the biggest recession in decades so the last thing we need at this point in time is an election and a change of direction when the recover is actually going rather well, (same in England where a change in Government right now would be disastrous at this stage of the recovery) . Also an election here will be pointless if the losing side can still continue to accuse it of being rigged with vote buying and other corruptions yet again, so this has to be avoided at all costs. SO AS I HAVE SAID MANY TIMES HERE, AND THIS IS SO SO VERY IMPORTANT, WITHOUT THE U.N. OR ANOTHER INDEPENDENT EXTERNAL BODY MONITORING AND POLICING ANY NEW ELECTIONS HERE, IT WILL NOT SOLVE ANY PROBLEMS AS IT SIMPLY AGAIN WONT BE RECOGNISED BY THE LOSING SIDE AS AN HONEST FAIR ELECTION AND THESE CONFLICTS WILL JUST UNDERSTANDABLY RETURN WITH A VENGEANCE. This all needs time to set up too so the late Autumn is really the earliest and a good and intelligent choice for all sides. THerefore all the intelligent honourable Red supporters should now go home and prepare for getting honourable ordinary folk standing as capable candidates for proper elections in the late Autumn. Then let the army deal with clearing the streets of the terrorist low life bully boy leaders left behind (who are probably on the promise of a big pay out from chief terrorist Thaksin if he succeeds in his aim of getting his money back).

If I was a Thai and had a vote here, as a reasonably educated and intelligent non elitist person (as I think I am) I would vote for the Red side but only IF they stopped supporting Thaksin and his thug cronies and stood honest capable Thai folk as candidates. I am sure many honest and fair minded Thais would do the same and positively vote for them too. Supporters of Thaksin are either on the promise of some big payouts from him or have their heads up their backsides as they obviously cannot clearly see what is so obviously going on here. Yes clearly this is all currently just about Thaksin wanting his ill gotten money and power back and he is obviously happy to pay out a lot to his thugs to succeed irrespective of the harm it will do to ordinary decent Thai folk and Thailand previously known as LOS. This current conflict is about Thaksin's money actually not about the Thai people and their future prosperity, and this is why I and many many folk in both Thailand and the rest of the world see Thaksin as an absolutely awful and evil man. Anyone surely should easily just be able to open their eyes and minds and clearly see that he is just that, the evidence against him is just too complete and compelling to see it any other way. Jeez how much proof do these people want to see Thaksin is not worth spilling a single drop blood over or even bothering with any longer so lets all forget him and ignore the prat, he just needs capturing and bringing back here squealing and crying to serve his sentence plus any others he receives for doubtless and numerous even more serious crimes not yet put to trial!!!

Also the Red Shirts should want the time to rid themselves of the convicted and obviously greedy self centred despicable crook Thalsin and their bully boy self proclaimed leaders and get themselves a real ordinary This leader capable of becoming a PM and non corrupt too. Make the Red Shirts a decent political force rather than being so stupid as they are now supporting the man who has robbed their country of billions (but hey Thailand got some of it back). No way would Thailand be recognised in the world if an undoubted and fairly convicted crook and megalomaniac such as Thaksin became PM, talk about losing face the country would be an international laughing stock, it beggars belief. So the Reds need time to get rid of these crooks and bullies and decent folk will start supporting the Red Shirts as their political philosophy of power to the ordinary Thai people rather than the Elite ruling class is a good one, and one we fought in many western countries over the last century and for the better of the ordinary people who make up the vast majority of all countries. So you see I am totally anti Thaksin and any other crook but I am not against the Red's political doctrine of a peoples power party and not an elitist party (as indeed Thaksin is one of the biggest Elitists), I just want to see common sense prevail and no more violence or blockading of Bangkok or anywhere else. The Thai people should knuckle down to get the country on the road to recovery and new hopefully honest democratic elections later in the year as Abhist has honourably promised.

Post of the day! Thanks!

Post of the day... increase the dosage lad. They want dissolution now so this government cannot amend the constitution. Changing the constitution will see less parliamentary seats in rural areas. You guessed it...the elite want that so the reds can never get power...without civil war

[termad]

Up until today it looked as though there was a small ray of hope in this sorry mess. The army was saying there would be no forcible crackdown, the police were staying out of it,the reds were making concessions in their demands for dissolution and academics from the sidelines were urging the PM to seek a basis to start negotiations.

Then Abhisit rejected negotiations out of hand. Just at the moment when Thailand needed a statesman, Abhisit acted like a politician.

If there is an attempt to use force to clear the reds from the streets then the PM will be responsible for any deaths and injuries that result. The mood yesterday was for talks. It appears Abhisit does not wish to endthis impasse through peaceful means.

What utter and biased nonsense. It was Abhist who offered the first peace talks which the Reds just threw out. Elections were offered a year early late this Autumn, any sooner would be nonsense and no time for it to be properly organised by all sides. Also some time to arrange for the U.N or other external unbiased body to monitor and police such a future election so it can be of no doubt a fair and just election of which the democratic outcome both sides would have to then honourably accept without further conflicts. I say this as totally unbiased as though I support Abhist in this conflict I am not against the Red Shirt non-Elitist people power political philosophy, just against that selfish greedy crook Thaksin and his band of bully boy nasty thugs doing his evil work. The Reds would do so much better and earn credibility if they dropped Thaksin and his thugs and between now and when elections are due later this year they may then have time to be able to find an honourable fair minded and capable leader to give them a chance of being elected in a proper democratic way.

I don't think that Thaksin has much to do with this anymore things have evolved passed him.

As to your comments that there would be no time to organise an election the Election Commission has already issued a statement that totally contradicts you.

Edited April 24, 2010 by termad

[Foggy Bottom]

Up until today it looked as though there was a small ray of hope in this sorry mess. The army was saying there would be no forcible crackdown, the police were staying out of it,the reds were making concessions in their demands for dissolution and academics from the sidelines were urging the PM to seek a basis to start negotiations.

Then Abhisit rejected negotiations out of hand. Just at the moment when Thailand needed a statesman, Abhisit acted like a politician.

If there is an attempt to use force to clear the reds from the streets then the PM will be responsible for any deaths and injuries that result. The mood yesterday was for talks. It appears Abhisit does not wish to endthis impasse through peaceful means.

What utter and biased nonsense. It was Abhist who offered the first peace talks which the Reds just threw out. Elections were offered a year early late this Autumn, any sooner would be nonsense and no time for it to be properly organised by all sides. Also some time to arrange for the U.N or other external unbiased body to monitor and police such a future election so it can be of no doubt a fair and just election of which the democratic outcome both sides would have to then honourably accept without further conflicts. I say this as totally unbiased as though I support Abhist in this conflict I am not against the Red Shirt non-Elitist people power political philosophy, just against that selfish greedy crook Thaksin and his band of bully boy nasty thugs doing his evil work. The Reds would do so much better and earn credibility if they dropped Thaksin and his thugs and between now and when elections are due later this year they may then have time to be able to find an honourable fair minded and capable leader to give them a chance of being elected in a proper democratic way.

Everyone also seems to forget that while superficially Thaksin won three elections, the third was judged undemocratic because it came to fast after a house dissolution - the current red leaders will be fully aware of this and remember it intensely - they are pushing Abhisit for a fast dissolution and election, so that if the reds lose such an election, then can smack the Democrats with the same judgement as Thai Rak Thai received after their third outing at the polls.

Might not be the sole thinking behind their demands, but I'll bet it's up high on the strategy sheet.

[sawasdee2549]

Oh well, thank you to the Reds and Thaksin for destroying Thailand.

Tom, I think you'll find that The Army will attack the redshirt camp, on the orders of the Government after a compromise deal was turned down.

I can't for the life of me understand why the PM would turn down any possible peaceful end to the problems.

Violence seems inevitable, the PM knows this, yet refuses point blank any compromise deal.

I don't think it's him that makes the decisions though, he's just the pretty face doing what hes told to do.

This could have catastrophic results, I hope that there is still time left for peace talks.

I have stayed out of this debate up until now, but I am quite amazed at some of the posters here who appear to be risking heart failure by getting so worked up.

This is not our ( Farangs ) problem, to spout such hatred towards either group could have severe repercussions.

Certain posters have been calling for a bloodbath, I pity you, and I know that none of you have ever been in such a situation yourselves, else you would keep your thoughts to yourself.

Calling the Redshirts Terrorists is a dangerous game.

How can the Redshirts cause maximum disruption to this government ? By acts of real terrorism, bombs in Tourist areas for example, kill a few hundred Farangs, destroy the tourist industry stone dead.

For all the Farangs here that are so brainwashed by either side in this conflict, I actually pity you, but I also pity any innocent Farangs who may be caught up in any backlash against the haters on this and other forums.

If I was a Redshirt and I read some of the hate posts by certain individuals here, I'd think very lowly of Farangs in Thailand.

So please stop the hate posts and think of possible repercussions in the future.

Yes, I know you're anonymous here, thank god, but the hate posts are way over the top and do nothing but antagonize.

Peace.

My apologies to you, for being so light of foot.

By your attempt at banding all foreigners in a bracket (unimportant) you neglect to include those foreigners here with businesses, families and kids, this is our problem also, not the holidaymakers and those that are here temporarily.Have been here for 10 years and have a <deleted> voice, have thai kids , Thai business. Do not dare to tell me it is none of my business.how conceited of you to include everybody in your statement.

these thugs have held the country at ransom for long enough.just cause has been seen already to make a harsh crackdown with the entire severity of the (legal) law of dealing with insurrection.

this game was started by the reds, and should finish with their demise, no negotiation, no threats, action is what is required.I am "farang" but also a family head of thai people, nearly all of which say to me, Enough games, finish it now". this is thai to farang.

believe what you wish, and hold an allegiance to whoever, but expect a penalty from the rest of the pissed off society.

Even if it is 1 million people, that leaves 65 million others that do not want this to continue.

make a cake crack ALL the eggs.

enough said.

[Totsagan]

I have just read this thread and for the first time I am compelled to join this forum. Everybody is entitled to an opinion so I will give mine. It would appear that most people on this thread are based in the more affluent areas of Thailand and have never ventured further north than Don Muang Airport and if they have it has never been for any extended period.

Posters using phrases like 'minority rabble' just indicate their total ignorance of what is really happeninng in Thailand. How can 20,000,000 people be a minority. Yes 20,000,000, that is the amount of people living in the NE regions of Thailand. Add the North and they clearly have a majority. It has always been a non written policy of many previous thai Governments to keep these people poor and keep them this way so they go down to the 'smoke' and take jobs to help feed their families. Without these people BKK would shut in a few days. Posters should be aware if all migrants workers went home South of Ayuttyha would cease to function.

Sorry I slightly digressed there. This is a class war between the old elite and the new money. The old elite has paid the army to do there dirty work for centuries. When they dont like a government they call a General and we have them removed. The new money has enlisted the help of the poor to further their cause but there will be a price to pay when they finally take power. The poor have now been empowered and the genie is out of the bottle and he is not going back. Forget Thaksin, he is just the bus driver for this crusade and on his return he understands he will have to retain that support to keep power.

Living amongst these people I have realised Thaksin is just a figurehead who either personally, or with help from interested parties, has managed to raise enough funds to keep this protest thriving. These people want social reform and a bigger piece of the pie.

There can only be one outcome if you think logically. That outcome may come tomorrow or 1 year from now or 10 years from now, but be sure it will come. This is not just about fair elections it about winning back power that was unlawfully stole from them in a coup. Not only do they want elections, the leaders of this movement want removal of all the money families that run Thailand. You remove them and there is nobody to instigate another coup. The 'Amataya (elite) will do whatever it takes to keep a grip on this country, even throw grenades into their own supporters to cause one side to fight the other. They are looking for a reason, to justify to the watching world, a ruthless crackdown.

What is scaring the current elite is the finances flowing into this movment and where it might be coming from. That takky chappie has been on a jolly around the world for 3 years.... I dont think so. I believe he has been flying around garnering support to enable his return. Making promises to smaller nations of trade links and access to do business in Thailand in return for donations to his movement. Haven't the arabs been trying to get access to grow rice here but have been told you can only own 49%. Paints a nice picture for Thaksin,returns to power and then changes current legislation to allow the arabs 100% access to grow rice here. Oh where is all the rice grown.... yes red shirt country and they will get xxx more money per tonne. Game over..Tilt. Dont you just love this guy

The above is just a scenario of what might be happening but please take your blinkers off and forget your own insignificant life and see things from both sides. Thaksin is a poor man by Thailands elite standards and cannot afford to finance this movement alone. Somebody is helping him.

Yes my support leans towards the reds but I want a peaceful conclusion to all this and no more deaths. I have got 3 children born here in Isaan and if somebody does not remove these faceless people from power my kids may grow up with no prospects, no money and no future. I apologise to all living in Bkk and my feelings to all grieving relatives on both sides.

This fight for reform was won two years ago when that funeral pyrah( maybe mispelt) was lit.

Great post. However, I think the Isaan speaking population is closer to 26,000,000. At any rate, it's the largest regional (ethnic, if you will) population in Thailand.

[yoshiwara]

I have just read this thread and for the first time I am compelled to join this forum. Everybody is entitled to an opinion so I will give mine. It would appear that most people on this thread are based in the more affluent areas of Thailand and have never ventured further north than Don Muang Airport and if they have it has never been for any extended period.

Posters using phrases like 'minority rabble' just indicate their total ignorance of what is really happeninng in Thailand. How can 20,000,000 people be a minority. Yes 20,000,000, that is the amount of people living in the NE regions of Thailand. Add the North and they clearly have a majority. It has always been a non written policy of many previous thai Governments to keep these people poor and keep them this way so they go down to the 'smoke' and take jobs to help feed their families. Without these people BKK would shut in a few days. Posters should be aware if all migrants workers went home South of Ayuttyha would cease to function.

Sorry I slightly digressed there. This is a class war between the old elite and the new money. The old elite has paid the army to do there dirty work for centuries. When they dont like a government they call a General and we have them removed. The new money has enlisted the help of the poor to further their cause but there will be a price to pay when they finally take power. The poor have now been empowered and the genie is out of the bottle and he is not going back. Forget Thaksin, he is just the bus driver for this crusade and on his return he understands he will have to retain that support to keep power.

Living amongst these people I have realised Thaksin is just a figurehead who either personally, or with help from interested parties, has managed to raise enough funds to keep this protest thriving. These people want social reform and a bigger piece of the pie.

There can only be one outcome if you think logically. That outcome may come tomorrow or 1 year from now or 10 years from now, but be sure it will come. This is not just about fair elections it about winning back power that was unlawfully stole from them in a coup. Not only do they want elections, the leaders of this movement want removal of all the money families that run Thailand. You remove them and there is nobody to instigate another coup. The 'Amataya (elite) will do whatever it takes to keep a grip on this country, even throw grenades into their own supporters to cause one side to fight the other. They are looking for a reason, to justify to the watching world, a ruthless crackdown.

What is scaring the current elite is the finances flowing into this movment and where it might be coming from. That takky chappie has been on a jolly around the world for 3 years.... I dont think so. I believe he has been flying around garnering support to enable his return. Making promises to smaller nations of trade links and access to do business in Thailand in return for donations to his movement. Haven't the arabs been trying to get access to grow rice here but have been told you can only own 49%. Paints a nice picture for Thaksin,returns to power and then changes current legislation to allow the arabs 100% access to grow rice here. Oh where is all the rice grown.... yes red shirt country and they will get xxx more money per tonne. Game over..Tilt. Dont you just love this guy

The above is just a scenario of what might be happening but please take your blinkers off and forget your own insignificant life and see things from both sides. Thaksin is a poor man by Thailands elite standards and cannot afford to finance this movement alone. Somebody is helping him.

Yes my support leans towards the reds but I want a peaceful conclusion to all this and no more deaths. I have got 3 children born here in Isaan and if somebody does not remove these faceless people from power my kids may grow up with no prospects, no money and no future. I apologise to all living in Bkk and my feelings to all grieving relatives on both sides.

This fight for reform was won two years ago when that funeral pyrah( maybe mispelt) was lit.

In short bring back Thaksin the crook.

With a few embellishments.

And petrol bombs.

And declining numbers.

Just the thugs now.

[retdson]

Oh well, thank you to the Reds and Thaksin for destroying Thailand.

Tom, I think you'll find that The Army will attack the redshirt camp, on the orders of the Government after a compromise deal was turned down.

I can't for the life of me understand why the PM would turn down any possible peaceful end to the problems.

Violence seems inevitable, the PM knows this, yet refuses point blank any compromise deal.

I don't think it's him that makes the decisions though, he's just the pretty face doing what hes told to do.

This could have catastrophic results, I hope that there is still time left for peace talks.

I have stayed out of this debate up until now, but I am quite amazed at some of the posters here who appear to be risking heart failure by getting so worked up.

This is not our ( Farangs ) problem, to spout such hatred towards either group could have severe repercussions.

Certain posters have been calling for a bloodbath, I pity you, and I know that none of you have ever been in such a situation yourselves, else you would keep your thoughts to yourself.

Calling the Redshirts Terrorists is a dangerous game.

How can the Redshirts cause maximum disruption to this government ? By acts of real terrorism, bombs in Tourist areas for example, kill a few hundred Farangs, destroy the tourist industry stone dead.

For all the Farangs here that are so brainwashed by either side in this conflict, I actually pity you, but I also pity any innocent Farangs who may be caught up in any backlash against the haters on this and other forums.

If I was a Redshirt and I read some of the hate posts by certain individuals here, I'd think very lowly of Farangs in Thailand.

So please stop the hate posts and think of possible repercussions in the future.

Yes, I know you're anonymous here, thank god, but the hate posts are way over the top and do nothing but antagonize.

Peace.

My apologies to you, for being so light of foot.

By your attempt at banding all foreigners in a bracket (unimportant) you neglect to include those foreigners here with businesses, families and kids, this is our problem also, not the holidaymakers and those that are here temporarily.Have been here for 10 years and have a <deleted> voice, have thai kids , Thai business. Do not dare to tell me it is none of my business.how conceited of you to include everybody in your statement.

these thugs have held the country at ransom for long enough.just cause has been seen already to make a harsh crackdown with the entire severity of the (legal) law of dealing with insurrection.

this game was started by the reds, and should finish with their demise, no negotiation, no threats, action is what is required.I am "farang" but also a family head of thai people, nearly all of which say to me, Enough games, finish it now". this is thai to farang.

believe what you wish, and hold an allegiance to whoever, but expect a penalty from the rest of the pissed off society.

Even if it is 1 million people, that leaves 65 million others that do not want this to continue.

make a cake crack ALL the eggs.

enough said.

Well, then the 65 million can vote in the government of their choice, win a landslide victory, and that'll be the end of it. No need to 'crack eggs'. Just call an election.

[termad]

Up until today it looked as though there was a small ray of hope in this sorry mess. The army was saying there would be no forcible crackdown, the police were staying out of it,the reds were making concessions in their demands for dissolution and academics from the sidelines were urging the PM to seek a basis to start negotiations.

Then Abhisit rejected negotiations out of hand. Just at the moment when Thailand needed a statesman, Abhisit acted like a politician.

If there is an attempt to use force to clear the reds from the streets then the PM will be responsible for any deaths and injuries that result. The mood yesterday was for talks. It appears Abhisit does not wish to endthis impasse through peaceful means.

What utter and biased nonsense. It was Abhist who offered the first peace talks which the Reds just threw out. Elections were offered a year early late this Autumn, any sooner would be nonsense and no time for it to be properly organised by all sides. Also some time to arrange for the U.N or other external unbiased body to monitor and police such a future election so it can be of no doubt a fair and just election of which the democratic outcome both sides would have to then honourably accept without further conflicts. I say this as totally unbiased as though I support Abhist in this conflict I am not against the Red Shirt non-Elitist people power political philosophy, just against that selfish greedy crook Thaksin and his band of bully boy nasty thugs doing his evil work. The Reds would do so much better and earn credibility if they dropped Thaksin and his thugs and between now and when elections are due later this year they may then have time to be able to find an honourable fair minded and capable leader to give them a chance of being elected in a proper democratic way.

Everyone also seems to forget that while superficially Thaksin won three elections, the third was judged undemocratic because it came to fast after a house dissolution - the current red leaders will be fully aware of this and remember it intensely - they are pushing Abhisit for a fast dissolution and election, so that if the reds lose such an election, then can smack the Democrats with the same judgement as Thai Rak Thai received after their third outing at the polls.

Might not be the sole thinking behind their demands, but I'll bet it's up high on the strategy sheet.

As the evidence that the EC has published shows that the Democrats were involved (and are involved) in corrupt practices and will be disolved as a party the only possible reason that Abhisit is refusing to go must be that he has been instructed by his masters to stand firm and not disolve the Lower House even if that leads to civil war.

[riceman09]

So they are dropping the red shirts. We all know why, yes? So when the reds without red attack the Thai soldiers and the general public with lethal weapons, and they are filmed doing so, they can more conveniently deny responsibility.

Precisely. This is a very disturbing development.

Guerrilla warfare? Threatening to loot CentralWorld?

"When the first blood is spilled here, the entire country will be the scene of bloodshed"

"We are ready to handle the government measures. No matter what shirt we wear, our hearts are red"

These are terrorist threats being made by the red shirt leaders. Some people might object to the word terrorist, but I don't know what else to call it. Insurrection perhaps? Any other suggestions?

I am not a thai but if you take time to think about, what does it take for a man or a woman to put their life on the line in order to honor what they believe into?

how desperate a human being has to get before somebody will listen to what they have trying to say(sometime with the wrong means). what would you do if you find yourself on the loosing end on a regular basis???

[yoshiwara]

Oh well, thank you to the Reds and Thaksin for destroying Thailand.

Tom, I think you'll find that The Army will attack the redshirt camp, on the orders of the Government after a compromise deal was turned down.

I can't for the life of me understand why the PM would turn down any possible peaceful end to the problems.

Violence seems inevitable, the PM knows this, yet refuses point blank any compromise deal.

I don't think it's him that makes the decisions though, he's just the pretty face doing what hes told to do.

This could have catastrophic results, I hope that there is still time left for peace talks.

I have stayed out of this debate up until now, but I am quite amazed at some of the posters here who appear to be risking heart failure by getting so worked up.

This is not our ( Farangs ) problem, to spout such hatred towards either group could have severe repercussions.

Certain posters have been calling for a bloodbath, I pity you, and I know that none of you have ever been in such a situation yourselves, else you would keep your thoughts to yourself.

Calling the Redshirts Terrorists is a dangerous game.

How can the Redshirts cause maximum disruption to this government ? By acts of real terrorism, bombs in Tourist areas for example, kill a few hundred Farangs, destroy the tourist industry stone dead.

For all the Farangs here that are so brainwashed by either side in this conflict, I actually pity you, but I also pity any innocent Farangs who may be caught up in any backlash against the haters on this and other forums.

If I was a Redshirt and I read some of the hate posts by certain individuals here, I'd think very lowly of Farangs in Thailand.

So please stop the hate posts and think of possible repercussions in the future.

Yes, I know you're anonymous here, thank god, but the hate posts are way over the top and do nothing but antagonize.

Peace.

My apologies to you, for being so light of foot.

By your attempt at banding all foreigners in a bracket (unimportant) you neglect to include those foreigners here with businesses, families and kids, this is our problem also, not the holidaymakers and those that are here temporarily.Have been here for 10 years and have a <deleted> voice, have thai kids , Thai business. Do not dare to tell me it is none of my business.how conceited of you to include everybody in your statement.

these thugs have held the country at ransom for long enough.just cause has been seen already to make a harsh crackdown with the entire severity of the (legal) law of dealing with insurrection.

this game was started by the reds, and should finish with their demise, no negotiation, no threats, action is what is required.I am "farang" but also a family head of thai people, nearly all of which say to me, Enough games, finish it now". this is thai to farang.

believe what you wish, and hold an allegiance to whoever, but expect a penalty from the rest of the pissed off society.

Even if it is 1 million people, that leaves 65 million others that do not want this to continue.

make a cake crack ALL the eggs.

enough said.

Well, then the 65 million can vote in the government of their choice, win a landslide victory, and that'll be the end of it. No need to 'crack eggs'. Just call an election.

The thinly disguised threat of red violence against expats above (in bold) is typical of Thaksin's bullies let off the leash.

Prattle on about democracy but go apoplectic when anybody calls them out.

Some of these Thaksin apologists can get really nasty.

Showing their dirty knickers in public.

There is an election scheduled, but the red thugs would wish it was at a time of their choosing.

Or rather of Thaksin's choosing.

Edited April 24, 2010 by yoshiwara

[Roadman]

What has to be done is that the Army delivers all it's troops including on trains to Bangkok, at what ever cost. That sends a clear messge to the genuine Reds (who truely want a better deal for the poor) to lay down any type of weapon and stand aside before Sunday night. That leaves the hard core type, as in calling for and carrying out guerilla operations among the civilians, and may I add against the Army, aside to be dealt with at minimum cost of civilian casualty. If I lived, worked or visited in this area right now, I and my family would be going right now and staying somewhere else to at least mid week. It will be quick but it will be bloody messy.

It has to happen, and bloodily sadly if the Reds and the goons among them do not surrender to the Army by Sunday night, because if the Army don't complete the assignment by Sunday night then know that the death toll is going to be higher when the citizens of Bangkok with the Yellows among them enter the fracas. The Goon element in the Reds equation has to be surgicially removed at whatever cost.

An honourable gift (not an offer as it should be accepted that there is Reds who need to chose death penalty charges on arrest or try and fight their way out) to the Reds would be that they along with "all" Thai's sit down and nail out a constitution that they can run an election on.

[termad]

Oh well, thank you to the Reds and Thaksin for destroying Thailand.

Abhisit will go down as the most educated Thai Prime Minister who (as often is the case with intelligent people) had no common sense whatsoever. He has already lost so why not just go for a good old British compromise where noone loses face. Where the buffalo smiley when you need it?

Main issue is not his arrogance, not his intelligence, nor even his common sense....

they just expected him to act like a Thai, and he DIDN'T!]

Must have been quite confusing for many of them....

He acted like a national leader would be expected to act most anywhere else.

And there is the problem, he's really Thai, but his education bred much of the raw roots out of him and replaced it with a proper international perspective.

Which of course is rather confusing to many, if not all, Thais.

Farang BAA!

Therein (apart from being a Geordie and Newcastle Utd supporter) lies his greatest strength - he's mostly outside the entrenched methodologies and corruptions, he also has seen alternatives work and work well - remember he returned to Thailand when UK was at its economic peak and so didn't see the crash first hand. He's seen what Thailand could become if the foundation work is done properly, which he's started with the free health care and education mandates. However, it's likely he has not mastered the art of having eyeballs in the back of his head and a forked tongue.

Being a Geordie he may also be too straight talking away from the media (most of us are) and this may be where he loses allies in tough decisions, which in turn could be the cause of perceptions that he wavers and hesitates. Never forget too that "Mr Fence Sitter Statesman" Chuan Leepai is his mentor - a diligent, honest, and hard working PM, yes, but also widely criticised by Thais as being unable to make a decision if his next meal relied on it. Some of that must be influencing Abhisit's "if you don't know what to do, do nothing" public face.

He's seen what Thailand could become if the foundation work is done properly, which he's started with the free health care and education mandates? Are you still talking about Abhisit or Thaksin?

P.S. He's not a Geordie he's Thai.

[whiterussian]

I think it was "whiterussian", that said it was 5 diplomats there. Two from Europe, Belgium and Denmark. I don´t remember i other 3, but there were no quote

No not I... wish I could sleep..

somebody else said "Montenegro, Saudi Arabia, Nicaragua.."

[Totsagan]

Oh well, thank you to the Reds and Thaksin for destroying Thailand.

Tom, I think you'll find that The Army will attack the redshirt camp, on the orders of the Government after a compromise deal was turned down.

I can't for the life of me understand why the PM would turn down any possible peaceful end to the problems.

Violence seems inevitable, the PM knows this, yet refuses point blank any compromise deal.

I don't think it's him that makes the decisions though, he's just the pretty face doing what hes told to do.

This could have catastrophic results, I hope that there is still time left for peace talks.

I have stayed out of this debate up until now, but I am quite amazed at some of the posters here who appear to be risking heart failure by getting so worked up.

This is not our ( Farangs ) problem, to spout such hatred towards either group could have severe repercussions.

Certain posters have been calling for a bloodbath, I pity you, and I know that none of you have ever been in such a situation yourselves, else you would keep your thoughts to yourself.

Calling the Redshirts Terrorists is a dangerous game.

How can the Redshirts cause maximum disruption to this government ? By acts of real terrorism, bombs in Tourist areas for example, kill a few hundred Farangs, destroy the tourist industry stone dead.

For all the Farangs here that are so brainwashed by either side in this conflict, I actually pity you, but I also pity any innocent Farangs who may be caught up in any backlash against the haters on this and other forums.

If I was a Redshirt and I read some of the hate posts by certain individuals here, I'd think very lowly of Farangs in Thailand.

So please stop the hate posts and think of possible repercussions in the future.

Yes, I know you're anonymous here, thank god, but the hate posts are way over the top and do nothing but antagonize.

Peace.

My apologies to you, for being so light of foot.

By your attempt at banding all foreigners in a bracket (unimportant) you neglect to include those foreigners here with businesses, families and kids, this is our problem also, not the holidaymakers and those that are here temporarily.Have been here for 10 years and have a <deleted> voice, have thai kids , Thai business. Do not dare to tell me it is none of my business.how conceited of you to include everybody in your statement.

these thugs have held the country at ransom for long enough.just cause has been seen already to make a harsh crackdown with the entire severity of the (legal) law of dealing with insurrection.

this game was started by the reds, and should finish with their demise, no negotiation, no threats, action is what is required.I am "farang" but also a family head of thai people, nearly all of which say to me, Enough games, finish it now". this is thai to farang.

believe what you wish, and hold an allegiance to whoever, but expect a penalty from the rest of the pissed off society.

Even if it is 1 million people, that leaves 65 million others that do not want this to continue.

make a cake crack ALL the eggs.

enough said.

I don't think the Reds are holding the "country" hostage...just you folks in Bangkok. You seem to have done alright for yourself in BKK. Nice house, nice job, nice car with driver, nice Thai family. You've been here 10 years and you've been pretty happy.

You think all this could have happened without the other 70 provinces outside the Bangkok metro area?

How many people live in BKK? About 12-13 million? About 20% of the Thai npopulation. From those 12-13 million, about 25% come from the provinces. They consider the provinces their home. They are transient workers. Now what if they pulled out of BKK?

Three million from Issan and another million from the South and mid-central. You wouldn't be enjoying life so much then. You'd be back to Tim the toolman, doing your own chores, driving your own car, and your wife cooking her own food and doing her own laundry.

The people out in the Mayberry provinces are laughing at you all. They don't feel like they're hostages. They feel empowered. I apologize in advance if I lumped you into the category of a rich foreign businessman. (P.S. If you're making more than BHT 25,000/month, you're rich.

[tgw]

You'd be back to Tim the toolman, doing your own chores, driving your own car, and your wife cooking her own food and doing her own laundry.

Hey, that sounds like home !!!

[wagner54]

I have just read this thread and for the first time I am compelled to join this forum. Everybody is entitled to an opinion so I will give mine. It would appear that most people on this thread are based in the more affluent areas of Thailand and have never ventured further north than Don Muang Airport and if they have it has never been for any extended period.

Posters using phrases like 'minority rabble' just indicate their total ignorance of what is really happeninng in Thailand. How can 20,000,000 people be a minority. Yes 20,000,000, that is the amount of people living in the NE regions of Thailand. Add the North and they clearly have a majority. It has always been a non written policy of many previous thai Governments to keep these people poor and keep them this way so they go down to the 'smoke' and take jobs to help feed their families. Without these people BKK would shut in a few days. Posters should be aware if all migrants workers went home South of Ayuttyha would cease to function.

Sorry I slightly digressed there. This is a class war between the old elite and the new money. The old elite has paid the army to do there dirty work for centuries. When they dont like a government they call a General and we have them removed. The new money has enlisted the help of the poor to further their cause but there will be a price to pay when they finally take power. The poor have now been empowered and the genie is out of the bottle and he is not going back. Forget Thaksin, he is just the bus driver for this crusade and on his return he understands he will have to retain that support to keep power.

Living amongst these people I have realised Thaksin is just a figurehead who either personally, or with help from interested parties, has managed to raise enough funds to keep this protest thriving. These people want social reform and a bigger piece of the pie.

There can only be one outcome if you think logically. That outcome may come tomorrow or 1 year from now or 10 years from now, but be sure it will come. This is not just about fair elections it about winning back power that was unlawfully stole from them in a coup. Not only do they want elections, the leaders of this movement want removal of all the money families that run Thailand. You remove them and there is nobody to instigate another coup. The 'Amataya (elite) will do whatever it takes to keep a grip on this country, even throw grenades into their own supporters to cause one side to fight the other. They are looking for a reason, to justify to the watching world, a ruthless crackdown.

What is scaring the current elite is the finances flowing into this movment and where it might be coming from. That takky chappie has been on a jolly around the world for 3 years.... I dont think so. I believe he has been flying around garnering support to enable his return. Making promises to smaller nations of trade links and access to do business in Thailand in return for donations to his movement. Haven't the arabs been trying to get access to grow rice here but have been told you can only own 49%. Paints a nice picture for Thaksin,returns to power and then changes current legislation to allow the arabs 100% access to grow rice here. Oh where is all the rice grown.... yes red shirt country and they will get xxx more money per tonne. Game over..Tilt. Dont you just love this guy

The above is just a scenario of what might be happening but please take your blinkers off and forget your own insignificant life and see things from both sides. Thaksin is a poor man by Thailands elite standards and cannot afford to finance this movement alone. Somebody is helping him.

Yes my support leans towards the reds but I want a peaceful conclusion to all this and no more deaths. I have got 3 children born here in Isaan and if somebody does not remove these faceless people from power my kids may grow up with no prospects, no money and no future. I apologise to all living in Bkk and my feelings to all grieving relatives on both sides.

This fight for reform was won two years ago when that funeral pyrah( maybe mispelt) was lit.

Well said. My family and friends are also from the rural North and support the red shirts, but I can assure you there is not a terrorist among them.

[diehard60]

So they are dropping the red shirts. We all know why, yes? So when the reds without red attack the Thai soldiers and the general public with lethal weapons, and they are filmed doing so, they can more conveniently deny responsibility.

How can you sit there and say it was the red shirts that did this? Were you there with them?

[Foggy Bottom]

Abhisit will go down as the most educated Thai Prime Minister who (as often is the case with intelligent people) had no common sense whatsoever. He has already lost so why not just go for a good old British compromise where noone loses face. Where the buffalo smiley when you need it?

Main issue is not his arrogance, not his intelligence, nor even his common sense....

they just expected him to act like a Thai, and he DIDN'T!]

Must have been quite confusing for many of them....

He acted like a national leader would be expected to act most anywhere else.

And there is the problem, he's really Thai, but his education bred much of the raw roots out of him and replaced it with a proper international perspective.

Which of course is rather confusing to many, if not all, Thais.

Farang BAA!

Therein (apart from being a Geordie and Newcastle Utd supporter) lies his greatest strength - he's mostly outside the entrenched methodologies and corruptions, he also has seen alternatives work and work well - remember he returned to Thailand when UK was at its economic peak and so didn't see the crash first hand. He's seen what Thailand could become if the foundation work is done properly, which he's started with the free health care and education mandates. However, it's likely he has not mastered the art of having eyeballs in the back of his head and a forked tongue.

Being a Geordie he may also be too straight talking away from the media (most of us are) and this may be where he loses allies in tough decisions, which in turn could be the cause of perceptions that he wavers and hesitates. Never forget too that "Mr Fence Sitter Statesman" Chuan Leepai is his mentor - a diligent, honest, and hard working PM, yes, but also widely criticised by Thais as being unable to make a decision if his next meal relied on it. Some of that must be influencing Abhisit's "if you don't know what to do, do nothing" public face.

He's seen what Thailand could become if the foundation work is done properly, which he's started with the free health care and education mandates? Are you still talking about Abhisit or Thaksin?

P.S. He's not a Geordie he's Thai.

As Thaksin never introduced either free healthcare or free education (despite in around 2001 or 2002 simultaneously being PM and Education Minister) then I am obviously not talking about him.

Khun Abhisit was born and raised on Tyneside according to an article linked from this discussion thread. Later he went to Eton then Oxbridge. The qualification to be Geordie is to be born within the smell of the River Tyne (or at least it used to be when I grew up there), just as a true Cockney must be born within the sound of Bow Bell. Regardless of Abhisit's current nationality and passport colour, if he was born on Tyneside, he's a Geordie for life.

If Thais would learn some geography and history from outside their own borders, they would then know that such origins will give him more in common with the red shirt grass roots than with the Amitaya. If they backed off and gave him time, I'm sure he would more than amply demonstrate that for them too, and they would all be better off, not immediately, but across the span of say 1 1/2 parliaments, not dissimilar to someone else's term in office?

[morphem]

I have just read this thread and for the first time I am compelled to join this forum. Everybody is entitled to an opinion so I will give mine. It would appear that most people on this thread are based in the more affluent areas of Thailand and have never ventured further north than Don Muang Airport and if they have it has never been for any extended period.

Posters using phrases like 'minority rabble' just indicate their total ignorance of what is really happeninng in Thailand. How can 20,000,000 people be a minority. Yes 20,000,000, that is the amount of people living in the NE regions of Thailand. Add the North and they clearly have a majority. It has always been a non written policy of many previous thai Governments to keep these people poor and keep them this way so they go down to the 'smoke' and take jobs to help feed their families. Without these people BKK would shut in a few days. Posters should be aware if all migrants workers went home South of Ayuttyha would cease to function.

Sorry I slightly digressed there. This is a class war between the old elite and the new money. The old elite has paid the army to do there dirty work for centuries. When they dont like a government they call a General and we have them removed. The new money has enlisted the help of the poor to further their cause but there will be a price to pay when they finally take power. The poor have now been empowered and the genie is out of the bottle and he is not going back. Forget Thaksin, he is just the bus driver for this crusade and on his return he understands he will have to retain that support to keep power.

Living amongst these people I have realised Thaksin is just a figurehead who either personally, or with help from interested parties, has managed to raise enough funds to keep this protest thriving. These people want social reform and a bigger piece of the pie.

There can only be one outcome if you think logically. That outcome may come tomorrow or 1 year from now or 10 years from now, but be sure it will come. This is not just about fair elections it about winning back power that was unlawfully stole from them in a coup. Not only do they want elections, the leaders of this movement want removal of all the money families that run Thailand. You remove them and there is nobody to instigate another coup. The 'Amataya (elite) will do whatever it takes to keep a grip on this country, even throw grenades into their own supporters to cause one side to fight the other. They are looking for a reason, to justify to the watching world, a ruthless crackdown.

What is scaring the current elite is the finances flowing into this movment and where it might be coming from. That takky chappie has been on a jolly around the world for 3 years.... I dont think so. I believe he has been flying around garnering support to enable his return. Making promises to smaller nations of trade links and access to do business in Thailand in return for donations to his movement. Haven't the arabs been trying to get access to grow rice here but have been told you can only own 49%. Paints a nice picture for Thaksin,returns to power and then changes current legislation to allow the arabs 100% access to grow rice here. Oh where is all the rice grown.... yes red shirt country and they will get xxx more money per tonne. Game over..Tilt. Dont you just love this guy

The above is just a scenario of what might be happening but please take your blinkers off and forget your own insignificant life and see things from both sides. Thaksin is a poor man by Thailands elite standards and cannot afford to finance this movement alone. Somebody is helping him.

Yes my support leans towards the reds but I want a peaceful conclusion to all this and no more deaths. I have got 3 children born here in Isaan and if somebody does not remove these faceless people from power my kids may grow up with no prospects, no money and no future. I apologise to all living in Bkk and my feelings to all grieving relatives on both sides.

This fight for reform was won two years ago when that funeral pyrah( maybe mispelt) was lit.

Well said. My family and friends are also from the rural North and support the red shirts, but I can assure you there is not a terrorist among them.

same same