Thai Protesters Brace For Crackdown As Compromise Rejected

[jcbangkok]

a revolution is carried out by educated people,only sometimes, at the top; and very uneducated people, usually, at the bottom. the nazis had only one educated man in their leadership (goebbels) and the average brown shirt footsoldier was harldly educated. the khmer rouge peasants, or the bolshevik ones, were hardly educated.

a far better rule of thumb is that revolutions are led by charismatic people. and, by the way, if you dont know what charisma means, then just go to ratchaprasong and see how the assembled masses listen and cheer.

Although no logical person believes a revolution is currently happening in Thailand now, it is a very appropriate comparison in terms of the Nazis and how people can be led by liars and thugs with their own agenda.

[Jingthing]

I admit that I havenot read all the posts on this topic yet, but the battery on my notebook is near empty, so I skipped to the end. I just wanted to report something that I have found extremely disturbing - and this is absolutely not a troll. At the moment I am in the US with some Thais from Burirum. They call home every morning here to get the latest goings-on. Today I heard that one of their relatives has a problem. He signed on as a red shirt because it was between crops. He really doesn't cae much one way or the other about the cause. He just felt it was good pay for what probably would be a fun trip for a few days to a week in Bangkok.

Well, things have stretched on, and he wants to go back home. He swears that he was told that since he accepted the money he could not quit. He was told that he would be klled if he abandoned the protest now.

I don't know if any of what I was told is true, but I know the people that told me this believe it completely. If it is true, that is a very serious new twist in this whole agonizing story.

Thanks for your report. There have been MANY reports that the paid for rent-a-reds have had their ID cards confiscated and can only get them back after they have "finished" their job. How they define finished and whether they can opt to quit early is something I haven't heard talked about until your report. At this point it is hard to say whether what happened to this rent-a-red is official red shirt policy or just a case of a over-zealous commander.

[humfurry]

a revolution is carried out by educated people,only sometimes, at the top; and very uneducated people, usually, at the bottom. the nazis had only one educated man in their leadership (goebbels) and the average brown shirt footsoldier was harldly educated. the khmer rouge peasants, or the bolshevik ones, were hardly educated.

a far better rule of thumb is that revolutions are led by charismatic people. and, by the way, if you dont know what charisma means, then just go to ratchaprasong and see how the assembled masses listen and cheer.

Well this revolution is revolting?

[sealy]

some people in this blog are in deep denial about the depth of feeling among the Red masses. and they are fooling themselves about the relative power of the government, which is in freefall.

we are not witnessing a protest any longer. its a revolution.

I'm not saying you are wrong but what are your qualifications and references for such a sweeping statement please?

earthpig - first I would like to congratulate you on the fitting name choice - secondly it is quite obvious where you come from.

A revolution is carried out by people, usually by educated people such as students for a higher cause such as freedom or by people who want to change the political system. However, a few thousand, even a hundred thousand thugs make no revolution .. well may be on an Island in the Maldives, but not in a country with 61 Million people

Considering that Thailand is a free country and the only reason those thugs are here, trying to topple the legal government is money and the return of their master to call this a revolution would be a affront to any real revolution carried out in history. You are a lot of little thugs and criminals - nothing else

Yes, for many it is about money but the scary thing is it is not about the opportunity to earn money ... it is the demand to be given handouts. If a farmer cannot make money with all the subsidies and tax exemptions they are already given then they should get out of the business as would be the case in any unprofitable business. They should look for opportunity elsewhere but the problem is they just want handouts. Everyone cries about how hard it is to be a farmer but how many months a year do they work? Like any country now, if you want to make money you need to work for it and if you cannot come up with a way to work on your own then you need to move near to the city. You cannot have it both ways. You cannot be given free healthcare, education and money handouts (all happening now) and live the simply country life but demand others give you more of their hard earned money so you can have everything they have.

whose daughters are dancing their lives out in the yellow owned go-go-bars in bangkok?

yellows' daughters?

if they are not working their butts off to satisfy the cravings of the sick people around them, then who is?

the yellows daughters??????

stop airbrushing the poor as people looking for handouts unless you want to be ostracised in thailand.

be fair.

being poor does not mean being lazy.....and always on the look-out for handouts.

[brahmburgers]

Fully kitted Troops have lined up on Silom. This doesn't look or feel like the last few days. Large number of Army ambulance trucks.

Hope they've got a lot of fire trucks also. A Km long, 3 meter high wall of tires burning is a daunting possibility.

....It is not the Reds who need to fear the goverment. They understand that if the Army attacks them, the risk is that the soldiers will turn on their own officers. Any one at Ratchaprasong last night might be forgiven from wondering is this isnt fast turning from a protest into a revolution.

all BS

Was there yesterday morning - was very quiet. Uploaded a photo in a thread on General Topics.

Earthpig is giving full vent to his wishful thinking - particularly the part about soldiers turning on their own officers.' Hogwash.

Other perspectives: There's scant Red movement to be seen in my town of Chiang Rai. I saw one pickup truck with a couple little red flags, and some middle aged women at a banana stand with identical Red shirts with Thaksin's face silkscreened on them. That's about it, and I've been around town a lot in past weeks.

Speaking of Thaksin: The Red shirt movement started all wrapped around him, it was sustained by him, both figuratively and financially, and it's still about him. The difference is that lately, Red leaders realized that bandying his picture and name all over the place was not gaining them popularity, as more Thais are realizing what a sleazeball Thaksin really is. So now the Red movement is trying to distance itself a bit (though not fully) from the meglamaniac.

Comparison: Cops can round up a group of bank robbers caught in the act, and just because the robbers start shouting about how they've suddenly all became righteous and lovely people, doesn't make the bank heist any less real. If a Red shirt member became next PM (Bob forbid!), he would likely appoint Thaksin to take his place. A similar scenario happened a few years ago in India when a woman was designated as PM, and she immediately appointed a colleague to take her seat. Stranger things have happened.

However, I think the Reds are shooting themselves and their cause in the feet on a daily basis, and rather than gaining political advantage, they're losing credence big time.

[elcent]

a revolution is carried out by educated people,only sometimes, at the top; and very uneducated people, usually, at the bottom. the nazis had only one educated man in their leadership (goebbels) and the average brown shirt footsoldier was harldly educated. the khmer rouge peasants, or the bolshevik ones, were hardly educated.

a far better rule of thumb is that revolutions are led by charismatic people. and, by the way, if you dont know what charisma means, then just go to ratchaprasong and see how the assembled masses listen and cheer.

To square-heads apply for charisma? Or are the reds only friendly for the money?

[Insight]

Was there yesterday morning - was very quiet. Uploaded a photo in a thread on General Topics.

Of course, it's always quiet in the morning. Most of the protesters are from Bangkok (contrary to the lies from the all pro-govt media saying they're all from the provinces) and they're at home sleeping. Every evening it turns into a sea of red as far as the eye can see in every direction from the stage.

Don't exaggerate now...

There are less people there, even at night now, than attend a pro sporting event.

I don't doubt it at all. It's the use of kids to buffer the low turnout that bothers me. As mentioned yesterday we seen three families with kids under 10 years old making their way to the protest site.

There's two recent posts on this thread indicating something is already starting...

[FreedomDude]

Of course, it's always quiet in the morning. Most of the protesters are from Bangkok (contrary to the lies from the all pro-govt media saying they're all from the provinces) and they're at home sleeping. Every evening it turns into a sea of red as far as the eye can see in every direction from the stage.

Don't exaggerate now...

I'm not exagerating. I admit there are barriers to how far one can see (the hump over the canal to the north, the tents to the east, west and south). The bulk are obviously to the north, but it does stretch all the way over the canal. This is a silly debate. Anyone who has actually approached the site from the north and looked down from canal area will certainly be amazed at the mass of humanity.

[Jingthing]

THE NATION: Sukhumvit 31 returns to peace!!! UDD guys have been back to Rajprasong after learning that PM is not at his home.

He hasn't been at home for the last 4 weeks! And what were they planning to do if he had been at home?

That's actually somewhat encouraging that their leadership is so totally out of touch with reality. The theory being, if you are trying to suppress an insurgent/terrorist movement, better that their leadership isn't super brilliant.

[earthpig]

Was there yesterday morning - was very quiet. Uploaded a photo in a thread on General Topics.

Of course, it's always quiet in the morning. Most of the protesters are from Bangkok (contrary to the lies from the all pro-govt media saying they're all from the provinces) and they're at home sleeping. Every evening it turns into a sea of red as far as the eye can see in every direction from the stage.

Don't exaggerate now...

There are less people there, even at night now, than attend a pro sporting event.

this poster has absolutely no idea what he is talking about and is obviously living in his private fantasy world.

anyone who was at ratchprasong last night knows full well that what the poster says above about the MASSIVE crowd stretching all directions is the truth. and everybody should also know that the only reason the army hasnt swept away the reds is because their numbers are just too big.

at this rate if increasing participation, the reds will soon be in a position sweep away the goverment, not vice versa.

[placey]

A disappointing but unsurprising response from the biggest stubborn mule PM the world has ever seen.

It is kind of hard to negotiate with terrorists. Not a good precedent really.

My limited understanding of history says every terrorist organisation has had negotiations to settle disputes and the only effective results have been either negotiated or completely wiping out the terrorists. Some may advocate the latter but it's chances of success are nil. This dispute will eventually be solved by negotiations because that is the only way this dispute can be solved

[earthpig]

Of course, it's always quiet in the morning. Most of the protesters are from Bangkok (contrary to the lies from the all pro-govt media saying they're all from the provinces) and they're at home sleeping. Every evening it turns into a sea of red as far as the eye can see in every direction from the stage.

Don't exaggerate now...

I'm not exagerating. I admit there are barriers to how far one can see (the hump over the canal to the north, the tents to the east, west and south). The bulk are obviously to the north, but it does stretch all the way over the canal. This is a silly debate. Anyone who has actually approached the site from the north and looked down from canal area will certainly be amazed at the mass of humanity.

you and i know that because we have actually been there. the naysayers believe what they read in the Nation whilst sitting in their armchairs.

[Insight]

this poster has absolutely no idea what he is talking about and is obviously living in his private fantasy world.

anyone who was at ratchprasong last night knows full well that what the poster says above about the MASSIVE crowd stretching all directions is the truth. and everybody should also know that the only reason the army hasnt swept away the reds is because their numbers are just too big.

at this rate if increasing participation, the reds will soon be in a position sweep away the goverment, not vice versa.

IMHO you guys are sounding thoroughly desperate today.

From what I see in the city, public allegiance to the red shirts has all but vanished.

[jcbangkok]

I admit that I havenot read all the posts on this topic yet, but the battery on my notebook is near empty, so I skipped to the end. I just wanted to report something that I have found extremely disturbing - and this is absolutely not a troll. At the moment I am in the US with some Thais from Burirum. They call home every morning here to get the latest goings-on. Today I heard that one of their relatives has a problem. He signed on as a red shirt because it was between crops. He really doesn't cae much one way or the other about the cause. He just felt it was good pay for what probably would be a fun trip for a few days to a week in Bangkok.

Well, things have stretched on, and he wants to go back home. He swears that he was told that since he accepted the money he could not quit. He was told that he would be klled if he abandoned the protest now.

I don't know if any of what I was told is true, but I know the people that told me this believe it completely. If it is true, that is a very serious new twist in this whole agonizing story.

Thanks for your report. There have been MANY reports that the paid for rent-a-reds have had their ID cards confiscated and can only get them back after they have "finished" their job. How they define finished and whether they can opt to quit early is something I haven't heard talked about until your report. At this point it is hard to say whether what happened to this rent-a-red is official red shirt policy or just a case of a over-zealous commander.

Every paid protester must at least show ID and have their ID recorded. They are then issued an ID from the reds which you will see they all wear around their neck. This has all been shown on TV and is easily witnessed at the protest site. I believe they also have to continue to present it daily to show they are still there.

[BKjohn]

Given the article in the post you can see why the Reds are now changing to multicolor shirts.

With the militant forces and Abhisit ready to spray them with machine gun fire so it is said, it makes sense to now wear mutlicolors as it helps Anupong again delay military action, he will say things have changed and too many innocents could get killed.

It allows anti-propaganda when the dead bodies on the streets are all in different color shirts and so shows the reds are more intelligent than Abhisit and co, will the potential "Butcher of Bangkok" be prepared for the world to see multicolor shirted dead bodies all over Bangkok whilst claiming strongly they are all reds in disguise ?

Team Yellow will now have to go back to wearing Yellow and not multicolor perhaps ?

team yellow can don red too and start firing the first shots and then quickly don yellow again , you know....

It's going to be very easy - marshal law and a curfew – whoever is left on the streets is fair game - nobody can complain about innocent people getting shot - hope it happens soon - everybody who chooses to be there has only got him/herself to blame - wonder how many of those red on this forum here will be there?

I bet their leaders will have some urgent business away from the site

[Jingthing]

There have been so many reports that rent-a-reds have had their Thai ID cards confiscated that I take that as a FACT for at least a portion of the paid for reds. The poster who brought up the death threat brings up a REAL issue. It can't be easy for people who want to QUIT to quit without at the very least extremely negative reactions, and potentially much worse. Even being denied payment for weeks of "work" is a serious consequence for poor people! Anyone who has observed the more thuggish elements of the reds is not at all surprised by this kind of management by intimidation technique. Another way to look at it. Some red leaders have declared war on the Kingdom of Thailand. They may see the red masses as soldiers in the war, mercenary or not. In a war, deserters are traditionally shot, yes? If the reds try to paint themselves as a movement for the poor, I suggest to the poor, you can do better.

Edited April 25, 2010 by Jingthing

[elcent]

I admit that I havenot read all the posts on this topic yet, but the battery on my notebook is near empty, so I skipped to the end. I just wanted to report something that I have found extremely disturbing - and this is absolutely not a troll. At the moment I am in the US with some Thais from Burirum. They call home every morning here to get the latest goings-on. Today I heard that one of their relatives has a problem. He signed on as a red shirt because it was between crops. He really doesn't cae much one way or the other about the cause. He just felt it was good pay for what probably would be a fun trip for a few days to a week in Bangkok.

Well, things have stretched on, and he wants to go back home. He swears that he was told that since he accepted the money he could not quit. He was told that he would be klled if he abandoned the protest now.

I don't know if any of what I was told is true, but I know the people that told me this believe it completely. If it is true, that is a very serious new twist in this whole agonizing story.

Thanks for your report. There have been MANY reports that the paid for rent-a-reds have had their ID cards confiscated and can only get them back after they have "finished" their job. How they define finished and whether they can opt to quit early is something I haven't heard talked about until your report. At this point it is hard to say whether what happened to this rent-a-red is official red shirt policy or just a case of a over-zealous commander.

there is a considerable amount of weekend warriors amongst the red, just for the excitement after the war games on the computers got so boring.

[pimay11]

I admit that I havenot read all the posts on this topic yet, but the battery on my notebook is near empty, so I skipped to the end. I just wanted to report something that I have found extremely disturbing - and this is absolutely not a troll. At the moment I am in the US with some Thais from Burirum. They call home every morning here to get the latest goings-on. Today I heard that one of their relatives has a problem. He signed on as a red shirt because it was between crops. He really doesn't cae much one way or the other about the cause. He just felt it was good pay for what probably would be a fun trip for a few days to a week in Bangkok.

Well, things have stretched on, and he wants to go back home. He swears that he was told that since he accepted the money he could not quit. He was told that he would be klled if he abandoned the protest now.

I don't know if any of what I was told is true, but I know the people that told me this believe it completely. If it is true, that is a very serious new twist in this whole agonizing story.

Thanks for your report. There have been MANY reports that the paid for rent-a-reds have had their ID cards confiscated and can only get them back after they have "finished" their job. How they define finished and whether they can opt to quit early is something I haven't heard talked about until your report. At this point it is hard to say whether what happened to this rent-a-red is official red shirt policy or just a case of a over-zealous commander.

I can vouch for the confiscated cards of the people in my village who went to red red rally. I don't know the conditions of card return. But when they arrived their ID cards were taken and new red ID cards were given to them at a cost of 50 B.

[jcbangkok]

this poster has absolutely no idea what he is talking about and is obviously living in his private fantasy world.

anyone who was at ratchprasong last night knows full well that what the poster says above about the MASSIVE crowd stretching all directions is the truth. and everybody should also know that the only reason the army hasnt swept away the reds is because their numbers are just too big.

at this rate if increasing participation, the reds will soon be in a position sweep away the goverment, not vice versa.

IMHO you guys are sounding thoroughly desperate today.

From what I see in the city, public allegiance to the red shirts has all but vanished.

Even at the end of March they couldn't get more than 30k (police figure) / 50k (red figure) to join when they called for the largest gathering to date. I forget the number but even at their height I believe the number didn't surpass 60k (police) / 100k (red figure). Now their numbers are only a few thousand and "possibly" swell to 10k at night but I don't think much more than 5k at best.

[animatic]

doubled post

Edited April 25, 2010 by animatic

[animatic]

If they discard their signature red t-shirts we might need a new name for them. Any suggestions?

" "The protesters formerly known as Reds" perhaps.

"Mallrats" "

They answered that themselves;

Red Hearts

how about "loyalists" for a name change.

after all they revere the monarch, as always .

"the thugs" would be my choice

Kwai Daeng would be mine

ARMY OF THE 12...

Naw, been used, the studio might sue.

The Socially Confused.

Friends of Thaksin

Prai and the Overlord's Minions

4 Weddings and a Riot

Army Of The Republic

So You Think You Can Dance.( to the masters tune

People's Army of Thailand < We have a winner

With Gen Chaovalit Appointed as Supreme Commander.

Edited April 25, 2010 by animatic

[animatic]

doubled post

[jdinasia]

this poster has absolutely no idea what he is talking about and is obviously living in his private fantasy world.

anyone who was at ratchprasong last night knows full well that what the poster says above about the MASSIVE crowd stretching all directions is the truth. and everybody should also know that the only reason the army hasnt swept away the reds is because their numbers are just too big.

at this rate if increasing participation, the reds will soon be in a position sweep away the goverment, not vice versa.

IMHO you guys are sounding thoroughly desperate today.

From what I see in the city, public allegiance to the red shirts has all but vanished.

Even at the end of March they couldn't get more than 30k (police figure) / 50k (red figure) to join when they called for the largest gathering to date. I forget the number but even at their height I believe the number didn't surpass 60k (police) / 100k (red figure). Now their numbers are only a few thousand and "possibly" swell to 10k at night but I don't think much more than 5k at best.

earthpig has certainly stumbled upon something not reported in the press or shown by any photos etc ... perhaps we should just take him at his word, or perhaps we should just note that his claims are refuted by everyone including the reds?

[hammered]

I guess after Abhisit named Chavalit with the head of the army sat next to him, this will come to a head quickly one way or another

Ball's book on black shirts and their links to Thai politics is recommended

[BKjohn]

I admit that I havenot read all the posts on this topic yet, but the battery on my notebook is near empty, so I skipped to the end. I just wanted to report something that I have found extremely disturbing - and this is absolutely not a troll. At the moment I am in the US with some Thais from Burirum. They call home every morning here to get the latest goings-on. Today I heard that one of their relatives has a problem. He signed on as a red shirt because it was between crops. He really doesn't cae much one way or the other about the cause. He just felt it was good pay for what probably would be a fun trip for a few days to a week in Bangkok.

Well, things have stretched on, and he wants to go back home. He swears that he was told that since he accepted the money he could not quit. He was told that he would be klled if he abandoned the protest now.

I don't know if any of what I was told is true, but I know the people that told me this believe it completely. If it is true, that is a very serious new twist in this whole agonizing story.

Thanks for your report. There have been MANY reports that the paid for rent-a-reds have had their ID cards confiscated and can only get them back after they have "finished" their job. How they define finished and whether they can opt to quit early is something I haven't heard talked about until your report. At this point it is hard to say whether what happened to this rent-a-red is official red shirt policy or just a case of a over-zealous commander.

there is a considerable amount of weekend warriors amongst the red, just for the excitement after the war games on the computers got so boring.

There is a deep routed fascination with violence among the Lao part of the Thai population. They love to buy those magazines showing accident and murder victims in the most gruesome detail - look at Thai newspapers or TV - a pair of titties is an absolute NO NO but detailed pictures of accident or murder victims are front page material.

Any accident site attracts instant crowds watching victims - an event like this is a crowd magnet if there ever was one for them

[elcent]

ARMY OF THE 12...

Naw, been used, the studio might sue.

The Socially Confused.

Friends of Thaksin

Prai and the Overlord's Minions

4 Weddings and a Riot

Army Of The Republic

So You Think You Can Dance.( to the masters tune)

"Weekend Warriors"

[Neurath]

There have been so many reports that rent-a-reds have had their Thai ID cards confiscated that I take that as a FACT for at least a portion of the paid for reds. The poster who brought up the death threat brings up a REAL issue. It can't be easy for people who want to QUIT to quit without at the very least extremely negative reactions, and potentially much worse. Anyone who has observed the more thuggish elements of the reds is not at all surprised by this kind of management by intimidation technique.

You can just go to your local office and get another one - takes no time. The notion of confiscation doesn't come into it. Knowing the identity of protesters and issuing them Red ID does have something to say for it - one the one hand it's an attempt to make infiltration by the security forces less likely and on the other it provides a means of using duress to ensure compliance (we know who you are and where you live.)

[jdinasia]

I guess after Abhisit named Chavalit with the head of the army sat next to him, this will come to a head quickly one way or another

Ball's book on black shirts and their links to Thai politics is recommended

The two of them sitting side by side and naming Chavalit and Sae Daeng was a very strong statement no matter how you gauge things.

[animatic]

I admit that I havenot read all the posts on this topic yet, but the battery on my notebook is near empty, so I skipped to the end. I just wanted to report something that I have found extremely disturbing - and this is absolutely not a troll. At the moment I am in the US with some Thais from Burirum. They call home every morning here to get the latest goings-on. Today I heard that one of their relatives has a problem. He signed on as a red shirt because it was between crops. He really doesn't cae much one way or the other about the cause. He just felt it was good pay for what probably would be a fun trip for a few days to a week in Bangkok.

Well, things have stretched on, and he wants to go back home. He swears that he was told that since he accepted the money he could not quit. He was told that he would be klled if he abandoned the protest now.

I don't know if any of what I was told is true, but I know the people that told me this believe it completely. If it is true, that is a very serious new twist in this whole agonizing story.

Thanks for your report. There have been MANY reports that the paid for rent-a-reds have had their ID cards confiscated and can only get them back after they have "finished" their job. How they define finished and whether they can opt to quit early is something I haven't heard talked about until your report. At this point it is hard to say whether what happened to this rent-a-red is official red shirt policy or just a case of a over-zealous commander.

I can vouch for the confiscated cards of the people in my village who went to red red rally. I don't know the conditions of card return. But when they arrived their ID cards were taken and new red ID cards were given to them at a cost of 50 B.

Make them pay to be controlled... ONLY in Thailand.

[elcent]

I guess after Abhisit named Chavalit with the head of the army sat next to him, this will come to a head quickly one way or another

Ball's book on black shirts and their links to Thai politics is recommended

The two of them sitting side by side and naming Chavalit and Sae Daeng was a very strong statement no matter how you gauge things.

Bingo!