Red-Shirts Must Realise Restraint Has Its Limitations

[Redsunset]

Just a question:

Who thinks that elections held right now, under the current constitution, are capable of returning a government that will be seen as legitimate by the side unable to stitch together a majority coalition?

If you answer "no" to that question, then we are in exactly the same situation that we're in now after the next election (regardless of winner) and that situation is incendiary.

What practical actions can be taken to move in the right direction to a situation where a sitting government (whether one voted for it or not) can be seen as legitimate?

The ultra-right conservative royalist military junta supporters who are the only ones that would vote for Abhisit would indeed be a bit peeved. Someone has to lose in a democracy. Wouldn't it be wonderful for it to be the most corrupt party in Thailand -= 64 years of feeding at the trough!

Look, let's solve the problem in front of us right now. Get rid of the protesters blocking Rajaprasong. The government has had many many days, weeks, months to figure out the big picture and cobble together its approach. If you don't have a long term game plan on how to remain in office, you are not going to solve all of our political woes in a few days. Let's just solve the immediate problem, then sit back and see what we can do longer term.

Edited April 26, 2010 by Redsunset

[rabo]

The timesonlineuk has a very good editorial calling for elections in Thailand. Abhisit must step down or be removed immediately. Aung San Suu Kyi's recent comments concur.

I have taken the time to read many foreign media reports but have have stopped because many, but not all, are not able to comprehend or bother to report on the issues at work here in Thailand. Most seem to simply apply the standard western, root for underdog, establishment is bad, people just want democracy model. While that is truly an honorable model, it does not apply here, now, and only ends up supporting the man who has caused all the misery and death. A man who is internationally recognized for his vast corruption and long track record of serious human rights abuses, and is currently banned from visiting many of the countries who's media are biased by their ignorance. Perhaps these media also have anti-establishment leanings in their own countries.

About a week ago, Amnesty International did a 180 degree turn around in their reporting with an official announcement that fairly laid blame wherever it was due. It seems they took a closer look into events after receiving some rather scathing feedback. Go AI.

For Aung San Suu Kyi, dear lady, after half a lifetime of house arrest under the Burmese Junta, what else could she say. I wonder what the generals are letting her read.

Edited April 26, 2010 by rabo

[TallForeigner]

'... unarmed peaceful people ...'

Go and have a shower, a cup of coffee and wake up man!

If you doubt that down here there are more than 20'000 absolutely harmless, unarmed civilians, families, women, men and children of all ages around then come here, take a good ice coffee and open your eyes. After that you can open your mouth again.

[Mosha]

The red leadership are like the IRA. The politicians are Sinn Fein, and the bombers are the Provos. Both pretending they have nothing to do with the other.

[Redsunset]

The so called "terrorists" are demanding for an Independent Investigation into April 10th.

PTP party have called on the UN for an Independent Investigation.

The government refuses for an Independent Investigation.

Why not get the UN in to investigate as happened say in the Bhutto murder in Pakistan ? Why does Abhisit and his cohorts refuse ?

Well, I think most people around the world can guess.

One more time.

Why did the redshirts cover the security camera's?????? They could provide prove that the redshirts are innocent, or are they maybe not????????????

Who cares why they covered the security camera. I don't care what they do. By virtue of sitting blocking public spaces, they are breaking the law. So anything they do, whether its go to the bathroom, eat, cover cameras is incidental, and breaking the law!!!

[midas]

The timesonlineuk has a very good editorial calling for elections in Thailand. Abhisit must step down or be removed immediately. Aung San Suu Kyi's recent comments concur.

so that's it then, because the Times in the UK says so and an activist in Burma says so, then Abhisit should just turn over the country to anarchists?

neither of them have to live here after do they?

its easy to be a commentator when it does not affect you

look at how these red animals behave now and then imagine how its going to be if they ever get any real power

Abhisit should stay the course, whatever the price......

no .................because he said so himself

watch this video of Abhisit where in Thai he says the

government must take responsibility by resigning .. everyone BUT HIM

do to others what you would like to be done to you

[Redsunset]

'... unarmed peaceful people ...'

Go and have a shower, a cup of coffee and wake up man!

If you doubt that down here there are more than 20'000 absolutely harmless, unarmed civilians, families, women, men and children of all ages around then come here, take a good ice coffee and open your eyes. After that you can open your mouth again.

In the beginning, Abhisit did the right thing... warn people to go home..... educate where you could... but now it is time for tear gas and sound machines.... that will get them to think twice before they sit down and protest again. No, you don't have to shoot anyone. Just make it very very uncomfortable for the "innocent women and children." and eventually they will go home!

Just do to them, what they are doing to us....

Tear gas the whole place every morning.... no one dies, but you fumigate the place and disperse those who want to have their somtam and donuts in peace!

[Redsunset]

if somebody here asked what would happen in Uk if such a mob would take action

he shows knowing nothing about democracy, zilch, zero

UK is a democracy with elections and human rights respected

that is not 100% true in Thailand and Thailand has a long way to go

to arrive with democracy, human rights, freedom of speech, Tv and press

I do hope Thailand will arrive there some day

duck and smile is no way

a massacre will dammage the image of Thailand

as it did for years in China

the article in The Times is not nonsens go read

I asked my English friends what they would do in England if this protest happened. They said, that the riot police would have cleared them away by repeated charges. Great! That captures the hooligans through waves and waves of small attacks. At the same time, you let the women and children go. It's like sifting flour!

So do it here already! Tear gas, raids, snipers.... get it done already!

[rabo]

'... unarmed peaceful people ...'

Go and have a shower, a cup of coffee and wake up man!

If you doubt that down here there are more than 20'000 absolutely harmless, unarmed civilians, families, women, men and children of all ages around then come here, take a good ice coffee and open your eyes. After that you can open your mouth again.

Why is it that so few farang can comprehend two things at the same time?

There is a well trained terrorist militant wing mixed with thousands of innocent rural people, and a significant number of Bangkok thugs.

Wow, three things, you will never understand that.

Edited April 26, 2010 by rabo

[Mekhong]

'... unarmed peaceful people ...'

Go and have a shower, a cup of coffee and wake up man!

If you doubt that down here there are more than 20'000 absolutely harmless, unarmed civilians, families, women, men and children of all ages around then come here, take a good ice coffee and open your eyes. After that you can open your mouth again.

I have been down there several times actually as unfortunately I have to go through the sprawling mess to get to work. Yes, there are many harmless civilians down there but there are several hundred, if not thousands, of aggressive violent thugs looking for a fight. They are armed with their own weapons and weapons that they have 'confiscated' from the police and army. I have nothing against a peaceful protest but they have proven time and time again that they are not peaceful - note the daily bomb attacks around the city.

[Redsunset]

I can't believe how incompetent our administration is. Yes, Thailand is a third world country and many of the protesters are like water buffalo, acting only because they are being paid. It would be one thing if the red shirt leaders were like Ghandi and doing it peacefully. Then they would have a point. But their forceful, threatening approach has no place in a legitimate democracy. You can't negotiate with terrorists.

[Redsunset]

'... unarmed peaceful people ...'

Go and have a shower, a cup of coffee and wake up man!

If you doubt that down here there are more than 20'000 absolutely harmless, unarmed civilians, families, women, men and children of all ages around then come here, take a good ice coffee and open your eyes. After that you can open your mouth again.

Why is it that so few farang can comprehend two things at the same time?

There is a well trained terrorist militant wing mixed with thousands of innocent rural people, and a significant number of Bangkok thugs.

Wow, three things, you will never understand that.

... I guess the solution is to do nothing, right? Then what do we have the army and police sitting around for? Crowd control? The goverenment's objective was and still is to remove the red shirts from blocking Rajaprasong. But through their incompetence, they have forced other people to do the dirty work for them. As a result, the government troops have become like the referee between the reds and those others who oppose the reds, like the multi-colored shirts. That is total bull.

What a cop out. How incompetent.

[rabo]

The timesonlineuk has a very good editorial calling for elections in Thailand. Abhisit must step down or be removed immediately. Aung San Suu Kyi's recent comments concur.

so that's it then, because the Times in the UK says so and an activist in Burma says so, then Abhisit should just turn over the country to anarchists?

neither of them have to live here after do they?

its easy to be a commentator when it does not affect you

look at how these red animals behave now and then imagine how its going to be if they ever get any real power

Abhisit should stay the course, whatever the price......

no .................because he said so himself

watch this video of Abhisit where in Thai he says the

government must take responsibility by resigning .. everyone BUT HIM

do to others what you would like to be done to you

Yeah, well, Thaksin S. stated clearly in his thesis that the rule of law must be enforced, above all else. I put a reference to his thesis in another thread yesterday. Go look.

Don't quote what you want, quote the truth, if you dare!

[chantorn]

We make the power supply switching for the ADS. I've seen the demos when visiting Raytheon. A few of these at each end 100 yards from the Red protest sites and they will have abandoned camp in 20 minutes guaranteed. At that point the tanks roll and smash the barricades and start the clean-up. This has gone on long enough and now is spreading like a cancer to other cities. If breaking up the fortress inflames things and they have to get it on, so be it. But this "occupation" grinding the country to a halt has to be broken as humanely as possible, but broken it must be.

http://www.raytheon.com/newsroom/feature/ads_03-08/

An arm dealer trying to profit from this situation?

Smart sales person.

[slapout]

As pointed out on page 1, The placement of children/women in harms ways is a strategy, of what history has shown, to be potentially, a part of a mass slaughter. If women want to be a part of the 'self proclaimed army' that is their decision. I just hope the possible consequences and the effect on their families was considered. The children is another matter, and those who have promoted their being on site I would characterize as the lowest of the dregs of human kind.

If the 20,000 head count mentioned, is accurate, the numbers seem much higher than indicated last week. I would hope that someone, who they will listen to, can make them aware of another avenue of action or inaction, especially those conned/coerced into the position of potential cannon fodder.

[midas]

'... unarmed peaceful people ...'

Go and have a shower, a cup of coffee and wake up man!

If you doubt that down here there are more than 20'000 absolutely harmless, unarmed civilians, families, women, men and children of all ages around then come here, take a good ice coffee and open your eyes. After that you can open your mouth again.

Why is it that so few farang can comprehend two things at the same time?

There is a well trained terrorist militant wing mixed with thousands of innocent rural people, and a significant number of Bangkok thugs.

Wow, three things, you will never understand that.

why is that an excuse for not allowing people to vote now rather than in December ?

[kraxlhuber]

The so called "terrorists" are demanding for an Independent Investigation into April 10th.

PTP party have called on the UN for an Independent Investigation.

The government refuses for an Independent Investigation.

Why not get the UN in to investigate as happened say in the Bhutto murder in Pakistan ? Why does Abhisit and his cohorts refuse ?

Well, I think most people around the world can guess.

I know of a very good Shrink

[timekeeper]

'... unarmed peaceful people ...'

Go and have a shower, a cup of coffee and wake up man!

If you doubt that down here there are more than 20'000 absolutely harmless, unarmed civilians, families, women, men and children of all ages around then come here, take a good ice coffee and open your eyes. After that you can open your mouth again.

would we still need you as a bodyguard to accompany us, as you have offered your 'bodyguard services' to other Tv'ers in other threads?

why would that be if these were ''20'000 absolutely harmless, unarmed civilians, families, women, men and children of all ages'' ?

i see you have ditched your provocative fighting man avatar?

why is that then?

[rabo]

'... unarmed peaceful people ...'

Go and have a shower, a cup of coffee and wake up man!

If you doubt that down here there are more than 20'000 absolutely harmless, unarmed civilians, families, women, men and children of all ages around then come here, take a good ice coffee and open your eyes. After that you can open your mouth again.

Why is it that so few farang can comprehend two things at the same time?

There is a well trained terrorist militant wing mixed with thousands of innocent rural people, and a significant number of Bangkok thugs.

Wow, three things, you will never understand that.

... I guess the solution is to do nothing, right? Then what do we have the army and police sitting around for? Crowd control? The goverenment's objective was and still is to remove the red shirts from blocking Rajaprasong. But through their incompetence, they have forced other people to do the dirty work for them. As a result, the government troops have become like the referee between the reds and those others who oppose the reds, like the multi-colored shirts. That is total bull.

What a cop out. How incompetent.

Not sure who you are replying to, since I do not even hit at doing nothing.

1) Understand the problem clearly, all aspects.

2) Devise a plan that will work

3) Move, move, move.

After some initial Thai style fumbling by the govt and army, this seems to be Abhisit's approach.

[Mekhong]

MCOT: Hand grenade found in front of emergency room of Chulalongkorn Hospital, bomb experts rush to defuse

Ooops. No doubt left by one of those 'peaceful' protesters. Nuff said

[TallForeigner]

'... unarmed peaceful people ...'

Go and have a shower, a cup of coffee and wake up man!

If you doubt that down here there are more than 20'000 absolutely harmless, unarmed civilians, families, women, men and children of all ages around then come here, take a good ice coffee and open your eyes. After that you can open your mouth again.

Why is it that so few farang can comprehend two things at the same time?

There is a well trained terrorist militant wing mixed with thousands of innocent rural people, and a significant number of Bangkok thugs.

Wow, three things, you will never understand that.

No one is doubting that there are different groups. I was even mentioning before that there might be an armed gang of black soldiers around. Now tell me, are you one of those still suggesting that the tens of thousands innocent rural people don't count and an army has to come in and start a bloodbath?

Edited April 26, 2010 by TallForeigner

[rabo]

'... unarmed peaceful people ...'

Go and have a shower, a cup of coffee and wake up man!

If you doubt that down here there are more than 20'000 absolutely harmless, unarmed civilians, families, women, men and children of all ages around then come here, take a good ice coffee and open your eyes. After that you can open your mouth again.

Why is it that so few farang can comprehend two things at the same time?

There is a well trained terrorist militant wing mixed with thousands of innocent rural people, and a significant number of Bangkok thugs.

Wow, three things, you will never understand that.

why is that an excuse for not allowing people to vote now rather than in December ?

Why vote now, since there are no scheduled elections?

[LuckyLew]

MCOT: Hand grenade found in front of emergency room of Chulalongkorn Hospital, bomb experts rush to defuse

Ooops. No doubt left by one of those 'peaceful' protesters. Nuff said

What kind of person leaves a grenade outside a hospital?

Let see how this gets some spin ...

[ozzieman05]

That is nonsense.

They have not showed restraint.

On April the 10th soldiers with live ammo tried to retake the sites.

25 people died because of it.

The mission FAILED.

Restraint ? Or simply inability to take action ?

All Abhisit needs to do is to say "The coup of 2006 was incorrect, the following events from 2006 were wrong and the parliamentary coup that put me into power was also wrong and so I dissolve the house and put the power back to the people and lets have elections".

But he prefers 26 people now dead and possibly more to come as he and his cohorts "cling to power" through force.

Thank you for your comments

Now please state your rights to make them

You are a Thai National of coarse

Everyone else is trying to calm the situation and you come out to stir things up

[chantorn]

MCOT: Hand grenade found in front of emergency room of Chulalongkorn Hospital, bomb experts rush to defuse

Ooops. No doubt left by one of those 'peaceful' protesters. Nuff said

"In front of emergency room of Chulalongkorn Hospital". This area is inside the RED control zone.

So, me being brainless, it must be left by the anti-RED to warn the RED that they too can cause trouble.

I am open to other theories.

[LevelHead]

The so called "terrorists" are demanding for an Independent Investigation into April 10th.

PTP party have called on the UN for an Independent Investigation.

The government refuses for an Independent Investigation.

Why not get the UN in to investigate as happened say in the Bhutto murder in Pakistan ? Why does Abhisit and his cohorts refuse ?

Well, I think most people around the world can guess.

One more time.

Why did the redshirts cover the security camera's?????? They could provide prove that the redshirts are innocent, or are they maybe not????????????

Let me explain.

Around the world governments have whole operations set ups to deal with "propaganda" more commonly called "communications" nowadays. These deal with halting news that is not wanted to get out and putting out "stories" that is wanted to be put out.

Fake photo's, tampered photo's and tampered video is just a small part.

Thailand's military is very good at this, it was used successfully against the Communists in the past and Sondthi, the CNS leader, is on record as saying that, after the coup, that "Thaksin and his forces" will be dealt with "by mass psychology, just as we did with the Communists".

So, in 2010 why would Reds cover government run camera's but allow the worlds free media to be present and film ?

Would it be perhaps that BBC/CNN/AFP/AJ and other media sources will not allow their video to be altered and tampered with, it will go out raw. Perhaps the Reds thought that government owned video, like the BTS at Silom, might not get released for a long time, time during which many of its contents could be changed.

Ask yourself why, why the Reds and the PTP have called for a UN Independent Investigation into the April 10th incident, AND YET the government and Abhisit in particular REFUSE this.

Normally its only the guilty who do not want Independent Investigations.

So ask yourself why Abhisit and his cohorts are refusing...........

[rabo]

'... unarmed peaceful people ...'

Go and have a shower, a cup of coffee and wake up man!

If you doubt that down here there are more than 20'000 absolutely harmless, unarmed civilians, families, women, men and children of all ages around then come here, take a good ice coffee and open your eyes. After that you can open your mouth again.

Why is it that so few farang can comprehend two things at the same time?

There is a well trained terrorist militant wing mixed with thousands of innocent rural people, and a significant number of Bangkok thugs.

Wow, three things, you will never understand that.

No one is doubting that there are different groups. I was even mentioning before that there might be an armed gang of black soldiers around. Now tell me, are you one of those still suggesting that the tens of thousands innocent rural people don't count and an army has to come in and start a bloodbath?

Absolutely not. BTW, I have a big "red" family from Buri Ram, not the most well off of provinces. I suggest that people understand the problem before calling for simple radical solutions that will cause further harm, either unnecessary death and suffering or worsening the social divide.

Where pray tell did you get the idea I am for violence from any of my words??????????????

Or any of my posts, for that matter????????????????

Edited April 26, 2010 by rabo

[ozzieman05]

Abhisit is failing. He is failing to POSITION his government as compassionate, understanding and doing the right things. In my eyes, he is incompetent. He is not solving the problem.

He constantly says, "If I cannot solve the problem then I should not be in office." Well, then get out.

As far as I can see, you do not have forever to solve the problem. You have already passed several deadlines and tests and you have failed them all.

Either sh*t or get off the pot! Disperse those protesters TODAY!

So you are now going to tell us what he should have done, and how?

[virtualtraveller]

Levelhead is your typical 'rose tinted glasses closet Red Farang', not poor, not willing to go and get shot, trying to justify their actions with intelligent argument that is far from level, with the usual one-sided way of looking at things, naive at best.

Case in point is 4223Rhodes who's read the UDD's 6 points and supports them without supporting Thaksin, can't you the ironies? Here they are;

1) Achieving the goal of establishing a genuine democracy that has the King as our Head of State, with political power belonging exclusively to the people. We reject any attempt, past or future, at using the monarchy to silence dissent or advance a particular agenda.

2) Dissolving the 2007 Constitution and restoring the 1997 Constitution, which may then be amended through a transparent, consultative and democratic process. THE MOMENT YOU BRING BACK THE 1997 CONSTITUTION TAKSIN TECHNICALLY WALKS FREE

3) Bringing Thais together in an effort to solve our political and socio-economic problems, recognizing that such efforts must stem from the power of the people. HOW IS THEIR ACTIONS IN BANKOK BRINGING THAIS TOGETHER?

4) Implementing the rule of law, due process and a system of equal justice for all, free of any obstructions or double-standards. IS THEIR PROTEST RESPECTING THE RULE OF LAW?

5) Uniting all Thais who love democracy, equality, and equal justice within all facets of society, in an effort to deconstruct and move beyond the Amartyatippatai (Aristocracy) system. UNITING???

6) Using exclusively non-violent means to achieve these objectives. WHAT'S NO VIOLENT ABOUT THEIR BEHAVIOUR IN BKK?

[ozzieman05]

'... unarmed peaceful people ...'

Go and have a shower, a cup of coffee and wake up man!

If you doubt that down here there are more than 20'000 absolutely harmless, unarmed civilians, families, women, men and children of all ages around then come here, take a good ice coffee and open your eyes. After that you can open your mouth again.

Why is it that so few farang can comprehend two things at the same time?

There is a well trained terrorist militant wing mixed with thousands of innocent rural people, and a significant number of Bangkok thugs.

Wow, three things, you will never understand that.

No one is doubting that there are different groups. I was even mentioning before that there might be an armed gang of black soldiers around. Now tell me, are you one of those still suggesting that the tens of thousands innocent rural people don't count and an army has to come in and start a bloodbath?

Seems if I remember rightly

IF YOU ARE PREPARED TO BREAK THE LAW OF THE LAND

Then be prepared for the consequences and don't whinge when it happens