Worsening Crisis Pushes Thailand Towards Anarchy

[clockworkorange]

THE NATION: Thaksin was warned by the Montengrin foreign ministry not to interfere in Thailand: a local newspaper reported.

THE NATION: Neighboring countries were putting pressure on Thakisn, as a Montenegrin citizen, NOT to interfere or to encourage protests in Thailand.

THE NATION: "But Thaksin - remained deaf to their warnings", the local paper said. It also now calls him "richest Montenegrin"

And THE NATION was today quoting anonymous web surfers and an acclaimed 'scientist' (whose esteemed name returned not a single hit on Google) as credible sources of forensic evidence to support the claim that recent photos of Thaksin were doctored.

Does THE NATION still hire an editor these days to verify sources of information, or are its pages just a yellow free-for-all?

Do you have a link to any such photos? I've worked and hobbied in photo retouching for over 20 years. Would just like to see what is there supposedly retouched.

This is not a challenge, just wish to see what you guys are talking about.

Sorry, a claim to expertise hidden under an anonymous newsgroup handle just doesn't cut it. Apart from your own claim, how can we be sure of your credentials? How do does anyone here know that you aren't the same person that was quoted by the NATION?

Unless you can present your credentials, any evidence that you put forward amounts to nothing. I'm sure you understand that this is merely the principle that underpin scientific method.

The only conclusive evidence would be from an independent source of expertise that we could all verify, which isn't likely to happen because even the esteemed NATION can't do that for us, quoting instead people who may not even exist. All this NATION reporting about Thaksin being dead, then resurrected, then dead again, is just so much rumour and misinformation.

[bangkoklight]

Please state your qualifications to say this.

So now you are saying that I'm uneducated and don't have any qualifications, right? What's next? I can't afford cornflakes in the morning like Abhisit? I bet all the Yellows here enjoy big bowls of Kellogg’s in the morning. Just goes to show the double standards we're dealing with.

And how come the Multi Colours can park their cars actually on Victory Monument in the evening without the army and police aiming rifles at them? Triple standards if you ask me!

[ozzieman05]

The acceptance of evil deeds

Are worse than the doing of evil deeds

[Phuket Stan]

im not a fan of the reds, but when did they say they would disband the monarchy?????? biased reporting i think!

Yes, it is making the excuses for slaughter. Pure Yellow propaganda and lies.

This is what they did in the time of the video below.

Same excuses made to kill the students.

.

Is that the vidio of the rebellion at Thammasat Uni....the massacre that Khun Samak who was Interior Minister at the time and who became Prime Minister with the Phue Thai Party (Thaksin's Party) said that only one person was killed...blatant liar that he was ....some what similar to most who belong to that party....Level Head ....have u ever been to Isaan and stayed a month or more in a small village and actually know how Isaan works ? If it was not for the fuedal barons who r the MP's there with their dirty snouts in each and every trough the people in Isaan would have a much bigger slice of the pie

[ozzieman05]

Please state your qualifications to say this.

So now you are saying that I'm uneducated and don't have any qualifications, right? What's next? I can't afford cornflakes in the morning like Abhisit? I bet all the Yellows here enjoy big bowls of Kellogg’s in the morning. Just goes to show the double standards we're dealing with.

And how come the Multi Colours can park their cars actually on Victory Monument in the evening without the army and police aiming rifles at them? Triple standards if you ask me!

very good political response that does not answer the question, does not even come close

I was a teacher in a Thai school for 4 years

my wife kids are both in Thai schools

My qualifications to talk on the subject

Please give yours

I see another Computer arm chair academic

[ozzieman05]

Please state your qualifications to say this.

So now you are saying that I'm uneducated and don't have any qualifications, right? What's next? I can't afford cornflakes in the morning like Abhisit? I bet all the Yellows here enjoy big bowls of Kellogg’s in the morning. Just goes to show the double standards we're dealing with.

And how come the Multi Colours can park their cars actually on Victory Monument in the evening without the army and police aiming rifles at them? Triple standards if you ask me!

[jcbangkok]

THE NATION: Thaksin was warned by the Montengrin foreign ministry not to interfere in Thailand: a local newspaper reported.

THE NATION: Neighboring countries were putting pressure on Thakisn, as a Montenegrin citizen, NOT to interfere or to encourage protests in Thailand.

THE NATION: "But Thaksin - remained deaf to their warnings", the local paper said. It also now calls him "richest Montenegrin"

And THE NATION was today quoting anonymous web surfers and an acclaimed 'scientist' (whose esteemed name returned not a single hit on Google) as credible sources of forensic evidence to support the claim that recent photos of Thaksin were doctored.

Does THE NATION still hire an editor these days to verify sources of information, or are its pages just a yellow free-for-all?

Are you saying this is not true?

I'm saying that the NATION is circling the drain in its standards of journalism, and as such is a completely unreliable source of information.

No self respecting news editor would sully his reputation by allowing such a an article to run, a story that is based on statements from anonymous web surfers, and an acclaimed 'scientist' whose name returns not a single hit on Google, if he exists at all.

If you are saying the nation " is a completely unreliable source of information" then you are also saying these news reports are not true.

Again you seem to not comprehend what the story was about. It was about the rumors (stated in headline) of those claiming the photos were doctored and also has the other side denying this silliness. The did there job and reported on a story that has gone viral in the blogging and social media sites. You "may" have a valid point but clearly the two topics pointed out here of the Nation's news don't support your view even a tiny bit. Sounds more like you just don't like what you are reading.

Also, they NEVER said he was an acclaimed scientist. So, it appears you have just lost credibility. To quote the article ...

"Chatchawal Kupipat, an image technology scientist at Chulalongkorn University, said ...."

I cannot find where they say he is acclaimed or that he is anything but what the above says which certainly would not make his name automatically come up in a Google search.

Also a person with common sense would realize the English version of their stories (like other Thai based papers) is not very good and the word scientist might have been meant to be Professor since we are talking about a school. It is important to try to understand the gist of their articles and not try to focus on little details that could be translated wrong. The gist is it is simply a story about the rumors and conspiracy types believing Thaksin doctored photos to hide the fact he is very ill or possibly his supporters trying to hide his death ... nowhere do they indicate even a tiny bit they support these people's views.

[whybother]

Do you have a link to any such photos? I've worked and hobbied in photo retouching for over 20 years. Would just like to see what is there supposedly retouched.

This is not a challenge, just wish to see what you guys are talking about.

Sorry, a claim to expertise hidden under an anonymous newsgroup handle just doesn't cut it. Apart from your own claim, how can we be sure of your credentials? How do does anyone here know that you aren't the same person that was quoted by the NATION?

Unless you can present your credentials, any evidence that you put forward amounts to nothing. I'm sure you understand that this is merely the principle that underpin scientific method.

The only conclusive evidence would be from an independent source of expertise that we could all verify, which isn't likely to happen because even the esteemed NATION can't do that for us, quoting instead people who may not even exist. All this NATION reporting about Thaksin being dead, then resurrected, then dead again, is just so much rumour and misinformation.

What are you worried about, Clockwork????

Tom isn't claiming to be an expert. He doesn't want to rely on the Nation's opinion, or your opinion for that matter. He just wants to have a look for himself.

And then he might come back on here with his opinion, which you will reject if it goes against what you think or accept (and point out his 20 years experience) if you agree with it.

[clockworkorange]

see Thaksinlives on facebook. As I said, this was all started on the net blogs and social networking. Although I do believe Thaksin is sicker than he is letting on, the only thing "possibly" suspicious about the photos is they all conveniently have date and time stamps from last week before the rumors of his death went viral.

I rest my case.

All this tripe about Thaksin being dead is just rumour and misinformation, with a feeble attempt by the NATION to con us into believing it, by bringing to bear the forensic evidence of a non-existant 'scientist' and a few anonymous Internet surfers.

The NATION has degenerated into a terribly sad state, and will hopefully go down the gurgler sooner rather than later.

[bkkjames]

see Thaksinlives on facebook. As I said, this was all started on the net blogs and social networking. Although I do believe Thaksin is sicker than he is letting on, the only thing "possibly" suspicious about the photos is they all conveniently have date and time stamps from last week before the rumors of his death went viral.

I rest my case.

All this tripe about Thaksin being dead is just rumour and misinformation, with a feeble attempt by the NATION to con us into believing it, by bringing to bear the forensic evidence of a non-existant 'scientist' and a few anonymous Internet surfers.

The NATION has degenerated into a terribly sad state, and will hopefully go down the gurgler sooner rather than later.

you are not one of the sub editors they let go awhile back with a grudge by chance?

[bangkoklight]

PAD backs off

The anti-Thaksin group gave a seven-day deadline for the government deal with the red shirts - but now says it will not take to the streets again.

Are they scared of the truth hitting them?

[humfurry]

see Thaksinlives on facebook. As I said, this was all started on the net blogs and social networking. Although I do believe Thaksin is sicker than he is letting on, the only thing "possibly" suspicious about the photos is they all conveniently have date and time stamps from last week before the rumors of his death went viral.

I rest my case.

All this tripe about Thaksin being dead is just rumour and misinformation, with a feeble attempt by the NATION to con us into believing it, by bringing to bear the forensic evidence of a non-existant 'scientist' and a few anonymous Internet surfers.

The NATION has degenerated into a terribly sad state, and will hopefully go down the gurgler sooner rather than later.

Does "rest my case" mean that I don't have to read any more of your very biased opinions? To wit: you're not going to post anymore?

Edited April 27, 2010 by humfurry

[danc]

Police Maj. Gen. Anuchai Lekbumrung told reporters that protesters had agreed by midmorning to remove the tires.

"We talked to the Red Shirt leaders, and the guards and they have removed the tires," he said. "They placed the tires on the platform not on the tracks."

This came from Asia Correspondent.

I am not condoning the action but it is very unlikely that what really happened, as per the above, is reported anywhere else.

[ThaksinKharma]

see Thaksinlives on facebook. As I said, this was all started on the net blogs and social networking. Although I do believe Thaksin is sicker than he is letting on, the only thing "possibly" suspicious about the photos is they all conveniently have date and time stamps from last week before the rumors of his death went viral.

I rest my case.

All this tripe about Thaksin being dead is just rumour and misinformation, with a feeble attempt by the NATION to con us into believing it, by bringing to bear the forensic evidence of a non-existant 'scientist' and a few anonymous Internet surfers.

The NATION has degenerated into a terribly sad state, and will hopefully go down the gurgler sooner rather than later.

you are not one of the sub editors they let go awhile back with a grudge by chance?

that would explain a lot

[Canuk]

News of the day: Reds block BTS, highways. Soldiers just stand by after all that talk of restoring order and the rule of law. The Red have realized that they could do pretty much anything they want with impunity.

Why not? The rich and elite have been doing anything they want with impunity for 50 years, whats a few weeks of the poor and impoverished?

[jcbangkok]

The person asking about the "claimed" doctored photos. Here are links to them...

Thaksin Picture 1

Thaksin Picture 2

Thaksin Picture 3

Thaksin Picture 4

A small but very vocal online community started questioning if the photos are real. But I personally don't see anything funny accept the fact they are date and timed stamped but after looking at other photos posted on his FB page, I can see it is not uncommon for the date/time stamp to be on.

[bangkoklight]

The NATION has degenerated into a terribly sad state, and will hopefully go down the gurgler sooner rather than later.

The Nation has already axed scores of staff and they plan to axe more soon. Nobody I know buys their paper anymore. If they want to have a laugh, they can read the cartoons online. The journalists they employ have to swear they do not have any Thaksin sympathies and they're not allowed to wear red in the office. It just goes to show you what they're all about.

Remember when the Yellows used to rally outside AIS? LOL! They would organize it using the AIS network and AIS technology! LOL!

Edited April 27, 2010 by bangkoklight

[jcbangkok]

News of the day: Reds block BTS, highways. Soldiers just stand by after all that talk of restoring order and the rule of law. The Red have realized that they could do pretty much anything they want with impunity.

Why not? The rich and elite have been doing anything they want with impunity for 50 years, whats a few weeks of the poor and impoverished?

At least the current gov't is trying to make this a thing of the past and started with holding Thaksin (once the richest man in The Kingdom) accountable but he ran away because he was scared to face the courts to defend himself. Now he runs from a 2-year sentence while at the very minimum encourages poor Thais to risk their lives for his wealth and power.

[Jerrytheyoung]

The person asking about the "claimed" doctored photos. Here are links to them...

Thaksin Picture 1

Thaksin Picture 2

Thaksin Picture 3

Thaksin Picture 4

A small but very vocal online community started questioning if the photos are real. But I personally don't see anything funny accept the fact they are date and timed stamped but after looking at other photos posted on his FB page, I can see it is not uncommon for the date/time stamp to be on.

The Health of Thaksin has nothing to do with the current thread. It is just a diversion. I suggest to drop all answer to the related posts on this topic or to open a new thread on this Montenegrin who have now no more to do with Thailand current situation.

[jjmax]

News of the day: Reds block BTS, highways. Soldiers just stand by after all that talk of restoring order and the rule of law. The Red have realized that they could do pretty much anything they want with impunity.

Why not? The rich and elite have been doing anything they want with impunity for 50 years, whats a few weeks of the poor and impoverished?

A week?

Well for the Red-Shirts that's 7000baht a head.

Democracy my arse

[bkkjames]

The person asking about the "claimed" doctored photos. Here are links to them...

Thaksin Picture 1

Thaksin Picture 2

Thaksin Picture 3

Thaksin Picture 4

A small but very vocal online community started questioning if the photos are real. But I personally don't see anything funny accept the fact they are date and timed stamped but after looking at other photos posted on his FB page, I can see it is not uncommon for the date/time stamp to be on.

what he should do next time is hold up a copy of that day's front page of the national newspaper from where-ever he is?

[bangkoklight]

News of the day: Reds block BTS, highways. Soldiers just stand by after all that talk of restoring order and the rule of law. The Red have realized that they could do pretty much anything they want with impunity.

Why not? The rich and elite have been doing anything they want with impunity for 50 years, whats a few weeks of the poor and impoverished?

In that case then Zolt, maybe the Reds can besiege the airport, right? ;-)

BTW, Zolt’s a Hungarian name isn’t it?

[Artisi]

The person asking about the "claimed" doctored photos. Here are links to them...

Thaksin Picture 1

Thaksin Picture 2

Thaksin Picture 3

Thaksin Picture 4

A small but very vocal online community started questioning if the photos are real. But I personally don't see anything funny accept the fact they are date and timed stamped but after looking at other photos posted on his FB page, I can see it is not uncommon for the date/time stamp to be on.

Does photo 4 show the hotel he has supposedly bought .

[animatic]

Excellent!

Are you French by chance? You must be from somewhere civilised!

Now, who is most likely to implement such things? The Democrats? the reds? Chart Thai Pattana?

As I've stated before, I think it will take two generations to sort things out. But it is possible.

I think it is most urgent to take action to try and make elections fair:-

1) No gerrymandering

2) Voting to be entirely confidential,

3) parties MUST publish manifestos

4) Voting buying to punished by severe prison term and life long ban from being an MP.

5) Get rid of the laughable requirement for MPs to have a degree (easily obtainable in Khao San Rd I suspect)

Response from reds? What do YOU want?

I have personnally meet general Chavalit few times, I do know that in 1997 he has been trapped by his Ministry of Finances and I do know that he is a man taking on him the errors of his subordinates.

Some people from his entourage told me that my ideas were quite close from Chavalit ones.

I will add for elections; candidates must present their campaign budget which has to be limited in order to permit poor people to be elected. Also part of the budget reimbursed if the Candidate reaches 5% of votes.

Interesting! Please can you enlighten me as to Chavalit history? What is his involvement today? Thanks

I have already told you: I am not in the Chavalit entourage, I have just gotten the opportunity to meet him 2, 3 years ago before the present affairs (before Abhisit in power)

At present, I am like you I follow what he is doing through the medias. But I appreciate that as leader he always takes full responsabilities of his subordinates and also he has a vision for development of the upper Country very similar to what I have exposed. (particularly industrial hubs in Issan). I do know also that some Thai Academics are very impressed by the French policy "Town and Country Planning" and do think they would like to implement something like that in their Country.

Of course we must factor in the age old Thai ways, of the Puyai boss making all decisions and not being disputed,

but if it goes wrong displacing the blame totally, while seeming to take responsibility; except for the actual actions that caused it all.

In other words I would fully expect Chavalit to say

'I was the boss in 1997, but my staff didn't properly inform me...

Oh so Thai in so many ways on so many levels.

Gotta love the place.

My staff allowed me to accidentally crash the whole economy of ASEAN.

[Gippy]

The person asking about the "claimed" doctored photos. Here are links to them...

Thaksin Picture 1

Thaksin Picture 2

Thaksin Picture 3

Thaksin Picture 4

A small but very vocal online community started questioning if the photos are real. But I personally don't see anything funny accept the fact they are date and timed stamped but after looking at other photos posted on his FB page, I can see it is not uncommon for the date/time stamp to be on.

Either somebody is very good with Photoshop or they managed to find the original photos that Thaksin was allegedly pasted onto, viewer can decide which is which.

[clockworkorange]

"Chatchawal Kupipat, an image technology scientist at Chulalongkorn University, said ...."

I cannot find where they say he is acclaimed or that he is anything but what the above says which certainly would not make his name automatically come up in a Google search.

Also a person with common sense would realize the English version of their stories (like other Thai based papers) is not very good and the word scientist might have been meant to be Professor since we are talking about a school. It is important to try to understand the gist of their articles and not try to focus on little details that could be translated wrong. The gist is it is simply a story about the rumors and conspiracy types believing Thaksin doctored photos to hide the fact he is very ill or possibly his supporters trying to hide his death ... nowhere do they indicate even a tiny bit they support these people's views.

Oh come off it - I'll bet the NATION is quoting someone that doesn't exist, or someone who is a like minded mate of the reporter.

Here is a newspaper that advertises itself as a sensible read, validating a rumour by quoting a scientist whose name has not one single reference on the Internet. In case you misunderstand the word 'scientist', it denotes high expertise, and when quoted in a newspaper as a validating source of information, would definitely need to be someone who is acclaimed by others in his field as having authority on a specific area of subject matter.

Even a Chula professsor, and most grade school teachers, would return multiple hits on Google, for goodness sake. Or perhaps you would count an image technology student or hobbyist as a 'scientist', for the purpose of NATION journalism?

By vainly trying to substantiate silly rumours like this, with such ridiculous supporting evidence, the NATION resembles more a UK tabloid than the quality read it still forlornly claims to be.

Edited April 27, 2010 by clockworkorange

[whiterussian]

I suppose if Thai Visa had gotten into bed with another outlet of propaganda... the website would have been shut down long ago... such is the nature of the beast now...

Vir prudens non contraventum mingit

Edited April 27, 2010 by whiterussian

[bangkoklight]

At least the current gov't is trying to make this a thing of the past and started with holding Thaksin (once the richest man in The Kingdom) accountable but he ran away because he was scared to face the courts to defend himself. Now he runs from a 2-year sentence while at the very minimum encourages poor Thais to risk their lives for his wealth and power.

Thaksin was once the richest man in the Kingdom? LOL! Surely there are others above him, right?

[ThaksinKharma]

THE NATION: Thaksin was warned by the Montengrin foreign ministry not to interfere in Thailand: a local newspaper reported.

THE NATION: Neighboring countries were putting pressure on Thakisn, as a Montenegrin citizen, NOT to interfere or to encourage protests in Thailand.

THE NATION: "But Thaksin - remained deaf to their warnings", the local paper said. It also now calls him "richest Montenegrin"

The Health of Thaksin has nothing to do with the current thread. It is just a diversion. I suggest to drop all answer to the related posts on this topic or to open a new thread on this Montenegrin who have now no more to do with Thailand current situation.

Now if only the "richest Montengrin" would stop funding all the turmoil that got Thailand to its current situation.

[vicco]

10,000 angry farmers with 1,000 tractors moving into Paris. Belgian PM forced to resign--Belgium in political crisis. Ukraine parliment adjourned because of smoke bombs....

Former PM of Thailand Thaksin Shinawatra is suspected of orchestrating these events with payment of large bribes, to divert attention from the anarchy in Bankok....The stupid French farmers are just there for the money.........just another yellow moment...