Worsening Crisis Pushes Thailand Towards Anarchy

[Netfan]

@veen_NT: Is this a true lie? TR@nirandr - Payap returned to stage and told protesters that he found soldiers and weapon but reporters didnt z them.!!

More of the relevant tweets

@veen_NT: Is this a true lie? TR@nirandr - Payap returned to stage and told protesters that he found soldiers and weapon but reporters didnt z them.!!

@veen_NT: (9.02pm) TR @Neaw_NBC - redshirts said they would seach every floor of Chulalongkorn Hospital tommorw. in Thai - http://bit.ly/c3rKiT #NNA

@veen_NT: RT @Kaypobird: @veen_NT if the police or army letthe reds search the hospital again, then i would say thailand is a failedstate.>>agree

@veen_NT: veen_NT INN (9/22pm) TR @jin_nation - tense situation is reported at Chula hospital. 300 police officers are confronting the reds. Gunfire heard.

Edit:added

@veen_NT Urgent!: sound at Chulalongkorn Hospital is not gun fired but giant fire cracker. viaNNA & MGRNews

Sad, but true. There is no excuse for not confronting these thugs with whatever force is required to protect the hospital, its patients and staff. If the government cannot / will not protect the hospital, perhaps it is time for them to step aside.

[bkkjames]

[

not enough?

for not attacking the red site again and causing another blood bath like april 10th???

oh i forgot its was the "men in black" that caused all those deaths and injuries..

and the av/goverment/army are completely white washed of any blame??

did you see the video from Al Jazeera today mate regarding the incident yesterday?

[Netfan]

why should i start backing up my posts with evidence...

none of yr lot on this forum does..

you just regurgitate and spew out!,,what ever has been feed to you by the local av/goverment sided media..

and whenever there is a fair not one sided piece, which puts down av/goverment in a negative way,,you all go quiet..

Thanks for proving that you have no evidence, which basically means your arguments are not based in fact. We knew that anyway, but at least now you've admitted it. Anyway, here's another chance...for example, when asked what the Dems had done for the people of Isaan, here is the evidence provided (shamelessly ripped off from another thread):

"making the outdated Thaksin 30 baht health scheme entirely free of charge , sending 1 million baht to every village for the community, (1100 villages received it), billions sent out in stimulus payments, free education, free books, free uniforms, free dental care, free further education, low interest student loans, free computer labs for schools, access to low interest loans to get families out of the grip of loan sharks and only yesterday............

The Bank for Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives plans to provide loans totalling Bt420 billion to the rural sector this year, BAAC president, Luck Wajananawat said.

The Bt420 billion in loans will be allocated as follows - Bt44.5 billion for livestocks and fisheries, Bt140 billion to support growing of economic crops, Bt45.5 billion for producing alternative energy sources, Bt68 billion for jobs creation in rural areas, Bt30 billion for creating economic communities, Bt52 billion to support the agricultural institute and Bt40 billion to support the government's agricultural policy, according to the BAAC president said."

Now, what are the PTP/UDD/ Red plans?

I sure bet Abhisit and his cronnies wish that every Thai voter had your perspective; unfortunately, outside of Bangkok, not many do. It is ironic that the biggest fear of the so-called Democrat party is elections. Aung San Suu Kyi's words regarding the military/government in Thailand ring so true!

I didn't ask for Suu Kyi's opinion -which btw, her spokesman made very clear was not a commentary on the current situation- it is a shameful move that the Reds have tried to make it appear she supports their cause - a desperate, pathetic move. Anyway, what I asked for was the PTP/UDD/Red plan for revitalizing Isaan. Where is it?

[elcent]

In spite of Thai style, Thais can be quite cunning. A threat to attack a hospital may we a well calculated way to force Abhisit/Anupong to finally show real force. Thais are going to react the same way that many on the forum have already reacted.

then so be it, or will he say "we underestimated the situation" again? The reds should be given a serious warning that all their activities are going to be dispersed and that harm to their health may be a result for resisting the dispersal order.

Another warning to executives who don't follow orders from the command line should be given too. And then get serious, really serious, all out forces. Anybody who fails to arrest the red leaders should be put on trial too.

[gymboy33]

not enough?

for not attacking the red site again and causing another blood bath like april 10th???

oh i forgot its was the "men in black" that caused all those deaths and injuries..

and the av/goverment/army are completely white washed of any blame??

did you see the video from Al Jazeera today mate regarding the incident yesterday?

what the one where they film some red shirts sneaked behind cars and ones gotta gun in his hand??

that one?

[4223rhodes]

why should i start backing up my posts with evidence...

none of yr lot on this forum does..

you just regurgitate and spew out!,,what ever has been feed to you by the local av/goverment sided media..

and whenever there is a fair not one sided piece, which puts down av/goverment in a negative way,,you all go quiet..

Thanks for proving that you have no evidence, which basically means your arguments are not based in fact. We knew that anyway, but at least now you've admitted it. Anyway, here's another chance...for example, when asked what the Dems had done for the people of Isaan, here is the evidence provided (shamelessly ripped off from another thread):

"making the outdated Thaksin 30 baht health scheme entirely free of charge , sending 1 million baht to every village for the community, (1100 villages received it), billions sent out in stimulus payments, free education, free books, free uniforms, free dental care, free further education, low interest student loans, free computer labs for schools, access to low interest loans to get families out of the grip of loan sharks and only yesterday............

The Bank for Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives plans to provide loans totalling Bt420 billion to the rural sector this year, BAAC president, Luck Wajananawat said.

The Bt420 billion in loans will be allocated as follows - Bt44.5 billion for livestocks and fisheries, Bt140 billion to support growing of economic crops, Bt45.5 billion for producing alternative energy sources, Bt68 billion for jobs creation in rural areas, Bt30 billion for creating economic communities, Bt52 billion to support the agricultural institute and Bt40 billion to support the government's agricultural policy, according to the BAAC president said."

Now, what are the PTP/UDD/ Red plans?

I sure bet Abhisit and his cronnies wish that every Thai voter had your perspective; unfortunately, outside of Bangkok, not many do. It is ironic that the biggest fear of the so-called Democrat party is elections. Aung San Suu Kyi's words regarding the military/government in Thailand ring so true!

I didn't ask for Suu Kyi's opinion -which btw, her spokesman made very clear was not a commentary on the current situation- it is a shameful move that the Reds have tried to make it appear she supports their cause - a desperate, pathetic move. Anyway, what I asked for was the PTP/UDD/Red plan for revitalizing Isaan. Where is it?

I notice in your posts a tendency to demand this and demand that. If you really wanted to know the Red plan for revitalizing all of Thailand you could have educated yourself quite easily by now. But I don't think you really want to know the truth. You seem to busy yourself defending your position rather than in letting it evolve naturally.

[blaze]

[

Sad, but true. There is no excuse for not confronting these thugs ...

How about the excuse that a civil war- led by competing segments of the military would make the events of the last few weeks look like a nursery school scrap. Excuse enough?

[bkkjames]

yea that one. pretty clear to all that they were wearing black. but i guess its not a thai tv channel filming it so its not true - whoops.

[elcent]

TR @wongthanong I have never once critized red shirts, but scenes at the Chula Hospital is very horrible, disgusting and a real shame.

2 minutes ago via TweetDeck

[Neurath]

I notice in your posts a tendency to demand this and demand that. If you really wanted to know the Red plan for revitalizing all of Thailand you could have educated yourself quite easily by now. But I don't think you really want to know the truth. You seem to busy yourself defending your position rather than in letting it evolve naturally.

"If you really wanted to know the Red plan for revitalizing all of Thailand you could have educated yourself quite easily by now"

Can you have a go at filling me in here? Not a flame or provocation from me, but I'd like to know what you have in mind.

[Netfan]

I notice in your posts a tendency to demand this and demand that. If you really wanted to know the Red plan for revitalizing all of Thailand you could have educated yourself quite easily by now. But I don't think you really want to know the truth. You seem to busy yourself defending your position rather than in letting it evolve naturally.

Well, I have looked and haven't found them, other than everyone who came to the demonstration gets 100,000 baht when Thaksin comes back. If there were any other plans/programs and you knew what they were or could articulate them you would have done so. Night night.

[4223rhodes]

Abhisit must go! His education left him well-endowed for a managerial position in an local ice cream shop. Indeed, he would look cute in a little red and white stripped outfit. But he has the political acumen of a cucumber and the integrity of a cockroach.

And yet you refuse to condemn the reds for attacking a hospital and kidnapping patients, then threatening to go back again and do it again tmw? Who has the integrity of a cockroach here?

Why is it my position to condemn the reds? This fundamentalist attitude of condemnation of all things un-yellow is rather monotonous and corrosive.

[elcent]

RT @suthichai: RT @Nitipan_naewna: - on the 6th floor at Chula - and the monk also joins the search!!! http://tweetphoto.com/20368814

[bkkjames]

Abhisit must go! His education left him well-endowed for a managerial position in an local ice cream shop. Indeed, he would look cute in a little red and white stripped outfit. But he has the political acumen of a cucumber and the integrity of a cockroach.

And yet you refuse to condemn the reds for attacking a hospital and kidnapping patients, then threatening to go back again and do it again tmw? Who has the integrity of a cockroach here?

Why is it my position to condemn the reds? This fundamentalist attitude of condemnation of all things un-yellow is rather monotonous and corrosive.

convenient but wrong. if it were yellows storming Rama 9 hospital I would say the same thing (like i did when they took the airport),

If you dont condem this action, by default does that mean you condone it?

[elcent]

But big tks to u all for the ideas. Btw, the rumours just refuse to die. I've been getting cascade of phone calls.

1 minute ago via TweetDeck

[gymboy33]

yea that one. pretty clear to all that they were wearing black. but i guess its not a thai tv channel filming it so its not true - whoops.

i heard some report that 18% of ppl or adults had guns in this country..

sorry no links at hand to prove this statement

i thought that was a high percentage at the time..

but what do you think this video footage proves????

that some or all red guards carry guns? probaly

that the "men in black" were to blame for all the deaths and injuries on the april 10th bloodbath?

[4223rhodes]

Abhisit must go! His education left him well-endowed for a managerial position in an local ice cream shop. Indeed, he would look cute in a little red and white stripped outfit. But he has the political acumen of a cucumber and the integrity of a cockroach.

And yet you refuse to condemn the reds for attacking a hospital and kidnapping patients, then threatening to go back again and do it again tmw? Who has the integrity of a cockroach here?

Why is it my position to condemn the reds? This fundamentalist attitude of condemnation of all things un-yellow is rather monotonous and corrosive.

convenient but wrong. if it were yellows storming Rama 9 hospital I would say the same thing (like i did when they took the airport),

If you dont condem this action, by default does that mean you condone it?

My Buddha no! It could mean so many things. Black and white thinking is the cause of the problem, not it's solution. Humans on all sides, not just Red and Yellow, are engaged in a cycle of attack and retaliation. For some it is a valiant struggle for freedom and equality and justice, for a better world. For others, it is a desperate attempt to keep things as they are and have always been, or worse. There is goodness and caring on all sides, there is greed and hatred on all sides. This fundamentalist attitude of condemnation is arrogant and unskillful. It is an attempt to live an unexamined life.

[monkfish]

tweet tweet

[bkkjames]

yea that one. pretty clear to all that they were wearing black. but i guess its not a thai tv channel filming it so its not true - whoops.

i heard some report that 18% of ppl or adults had guns in this country..

sorry no links at hand to prove this statement

i thought that was a high percentage at the time..

but what do you think this video footage proves????

that some or all red guards carry guns? probaly

that the "men in black" were to blame for all the deaths and injuries on the april 10th bloodbath?

i saw men in black with ak 47s in the many videos of april 10, dont think they were firing blanks, anyways, hold onto that card and continue to play it as needed. acts like yesterday and tonight and most likely tomorrow will continue to show the cracks.

[blaze]

what I asked for was the PTP/UDD/Red plan for revitalizing Isaan. Where is it?

I can not speak for the reds- but it may be that their 'plan' is simply this: that Thai society learns that any government that they elect must be permitted to govern wihtout military/judicial coups. Rightly or wrongly, I would expect that many of those who supported Thaksin believe they were robbed. People don't like being robbed. Now you can tell them that Thaksin was TOO corrupt (they'd fall over laughing- and I expect you would have a hard time keeping a staight face too- if you simply said that an official in Thailand was 'corrupt- so you have to say TOO corrupt) but they might think that the reason he was turfed had nothing to do with corruption- but rather because he threatened to shake up the establishment- and the system which legitimizes it- which they regard, perhaps with some cause, as having had a pretty good ride on the backs of the poor.

Now we can talk till we're blue in the face about what they 'should' and 'should not' think- but it won't matter.

This is the pickle we're all in now- and whatever is to be done?

As many predicted at the time of the coup- the genie was out of the bottle- there is not putting him back in. Even a rudimentary study of history shows that revolutions happen, not when people are ground down- but when they have been give hope- and then that hope, snatched from them. (check out the Crane Brinton theory of revolution- something that the coupsters should but probably did not study).

All discussion of 'shoulds' and 'should nots' become moot= drowned out in the raging torent of --- history and the forces that channel it.

[rabo]

yea that one. pretty clear to all that they were wearing black. but i guess its not a thai tv channel filming it so its not true - whoops.

i heard some report that 18% of ppl or adults had guns in this country..

sorry no links at hand to prove this statement

i thought that was a high percentage at the time..

but what do you think this video footage proves????

that some or all red guards carry guns? probaly

that the "men in black" were to blame for all the deaths and injuries on the april 10th bloodbath?

No, but they started it after blowing up the main power pylons north of Bangkok.

[Neurath]

My Buddha no! It could mean so many things. Black and white thinking is the cause of the problem, not it's solution. Humans on all sides, not just Red and Yellow, are engaged in a cycle of attack and retaliation. For some it is a valiant struggle for freedom and equality and justice, for a better world. For others, it is a desperate attempt to keep things as they are and have always been, or worse. There is goodness and caring on all sides, there is greed and hatred on all sides. This fundamentalist attitude of condemnation is arrogant and unskillful. It is an attempt to live an unexamined life.

"Black and white thinking is the cause of the problem, not it's solution."

Uh huh.

"For some it is a valiant struggle for freedom and equality and justice, for a better world. For others, it is a desperate attempt to keep things as they are and have always been, or worse."

You have now condemned with one statement what you clearly exhibit with the other. You seem to have lost control of your rhetoric and your thinking.

[dutchweller]

Red shirts demand on Thursday to search in Chulalongkorn hospital where they claimed troops were hiding.

Red shirts storm Chulalongkorn hospital

WHO the hel_l do these guys think they are???

Why the hel_l are these people not arrested and locked up for a very long time..

<snip>

Lock down the Protest site only allow exits carefully checking everyone for ID as they do.. Issue a Curfew give them 24 hours and then Roll in with everything the army has got..the only one s who are left will be the Stupid and the Hardcore...round them up and lock them up for a very long time for Treason..

Edited April 29, 2010 by raro
inflammatory passage edited out

[4223rhodes]

what I asked for was the PTP/UDD/Red plan for revitalizing Isaan. Where is it?

I can not speak for the reds- but it may be that their 'plan' is simply this: that Thai society learns that any government that they elect must be permitted to govern wihtout military/judicial coups. Rightly or wrongly, I would expect that many of those who supported Thaksin believe they were robbed. People don't like being robbed. Now you can tell them that Thaksin was TOO corrupt (they'd fall over laughing- and I expect you would have a hard time keeping a staight face too- if you simply said that an official in Thailand was 'corrupt- so you have to say TOO corrupt) but they might think that the reason he was turfed had nothing to do with corruption- but rather because he threatened to shake up the establishment- and the system which legitimizes it- which they regard, perhaps with some cause, as having had a pretty good ride on the backs of the poor.

Now we can talk till we're blue in the face about what they 'should' and 'should not' think- but it won't matter.

This is the pickle we're all in now- and whatever is to be done?

As many predicted at the time of the coup- the genie was out of the bottle- there is not putting him back in. Even a rudimentary study of history shows that revolutions happen, not when people are ground down- but when they have been give hope- and then that hope, snatched from them. (check out the Crane Brinton theory of revolution- something that the coupsters should but probably did not study).

All discussion of 'shoulds' and 'should nots' become moot= drowned out in the raging torent of --- history and the forces that channel it.

Brilliant!

[elcent]

what I asked for was the PTP/UDD/Red plan for revitalizing Isaan. Where is it?

I can not speak for the reds- but it may be that their 'plan' is simply this: that Thai society learns that any government that they elect must be permitted to govern wihtout military/judicial coups. Rightly or wrongly, I would expect that many of those who supported Thaksin believe they were robbed. People don't like being robbed. Now you can tell them that Thaksin was TOO corrupt (they'd fall over laughing- and I expect you would have a hard time keeping a staight face too- if you simply said that an official in Thailand was 'corrupt- so you have to say TOO corrupt) but they might think that the reason he was turfed had nothing to do with corruption- but rather because he threatened to shake up the establishment- and the system which legitimizes it- which they regard, perhaps with some cause, as having had a pretty good ride on the backs of the poor.

Now we can talk till we're blue in the face about what they 'should' and 'should not' think- but it won't matter.

This is the pickle we're all in now- and whatever is to be done?

As many predicted at the time of the coup- the genie was out of the bottle- there is not putting him back in. Even a rudimentary study of history shows that revolutions happen, not when people are ground down- but when they have been give hope- and then that hope, snatched from them. (check out the Crane Brinton theory of revolution- something that the coupsters should but probably did not study).

All discussion of 'shoulds' and 'should nots' become moot= drowned out in the raging torent of --- history and the forces that channel it.

Brilliant!

But when you look around in Bangkok or in the villages, people don't want revolution, it won't happen. It's just a few hardcore on both sides who terrorize the Nation and hold it at ransom for selfish reasons. People know that too.

they should be taken away in one washing. - Yellow leaders and red leaders.

[Neurath]

what I asked for was the PTP/UDD/Red plan for revitalizing Isaan. Where is it?

I can not speak for the reds- but it may be that their 'plan' is simply this: that Thai society learns that any government that they elect must be permitted to govern wihtout military/judicial coups. Rightly or wrongly, I would expect that many of those who supported Thaksin believe they were robbed. People don't like being robbed. Now you can tell them that Thaksin was TOO corrupt (they'd fall over laughing- and I expect you would have a hard time keeping a staight face too- if you simply said that an official in Thailand was 'corrupt- so you have to say TOO corrupt) but they might think that the reason he was turfed had nothing to do with corruption- but rather because he threatened to shake up the establishment- and the system which legitimizes it- which they regard, perhaps with some cause, as having had a pretty good ride on the backs of the poor.

Now we can talk till we're blue in the face about what they 'should' and 'should not' think- but it won't matter.

This is the pickle we're all in now- and whatever is to be done?

As many predicted at the time of the coup- the genie was out of the bottle- there is not putting him back in. Even a rudimentary study of history shows that revolutions happen, not when people are ground down- but when they have been give hope- and then that hope, snatched from them. (check out the Crane Brinton theory of revolution- something that the coupsters should but probably did not study).

All discussion of 'shoulds' and 'should nots' become moot= drowned out in the raging torent of --- history and the forces that channel it.

"All discussion of 'shoulds' and 'should nots' become moot= drowned out in the raging torent of --- history and the forces that channel it."

In which case, pick your side, use maximum force, and win at all costs. The quick and the dead.

A modified form of an old dogma: what is right is what I can do, since if I can do it it must be right (Rosicrucianism).

[Chaimai]

I notice in your posts a tendency to demand this and demand that. If you really wanted to know the Red plan for revitalizing all of Thailand you could have educated yourself quite easily by now. But I don't think you really want to know the truth. You seem to busy yourself defending your position rather than in letting it evolve naturally.

"If you really wanted to know the Red plan for revitalizing all of Thailand you could have educated yourself quite easily by now"

Can you have a go at filling me in here? Not a flame or provocation from me, but I'd like to know what you have in mind.

I haven't seen a response to this post by Ajarn 4223rhodes yet. Have I missed something ?

[4223rhodes]

Sorry to bring this thread back on its original track, but is this worsening crisis pushing Thailand towards anarchy? I, as much as anyone, am very excited for the prospect of democracy coming to Thailand. But I think we are really too focused on this Red blocking of the shopping district. 4,000 people have died in the last several years in the insurgency in the South. We ignore it because the Southern conflict really doesn't affect the operation of Dunkin' Donuts or Luis Vuitton or Nana. Yet, it would appear to be a far more significant conflict as far as discussions of anarchy and civil war are concerned. I agree with a previous poster that the rural Thais are not interested in revolution. They want what they had before Sept. 2006, that is all.

[A_Traveller]

what I asked for was the PTP/UDD/Red plan for revitalizing Isaan. Where is it?

I can not speak for the reds- but it may be that their 'plan' is simply this: that Thai society learns that any government that they elect must be permitted to govern wihtout military/judicial coups. Rightly or wrongly, I would expect that many of those who supported Thaksin believe they were robbed. People don't like being robbed. Now you can tell them that Thaksin was TOO corrupt (they'd fall over laughing- and I expect you would have a hard time keeping a staight face too- if you simply said that an official in Thailand was 'corrupt- so you have to say TOO corrupt) but they might think that the reason he was turfed had nothing to do with corruption- but rather because he threatened to shake up the establishment- and the system which legitimizes it- which they regard, perhaps with some cause, as having had a pretty good ride on the backs of the poor.

Now we can talk till we're blue in the face about what they 'should' and 'should not' think- but it won't matter.

This is the pickle we're all in now- and whatever is to be done?

As many predicted at the time of the coup- the genie was out of the bottle- there is not putting him back in. Even a rudimentary study of history shows that revolutions happen, not when people are ground down- but when they have been give hope- and then that hope, snatched from them. (check out the Crane Brinton theory of revolution- something that the coupsters should but probably did not study).

All discussion of 'shoulds' and 'should nots' become moot= drowned out in the raging torent of --- history and the forces that channel it.

Brilliant!

No Drivel. Why, because this whole movement is Astro-turf. The people are ferried here in company registered vehicles from the mercantile class who by and large are desperate to return to the past. Why, not democracy nor the Crane Brinton theory, but because then they get to keep their power, they get to keep their illegal money lending [with usury], they get to keep their interest in the local [very local] political structures which ensure that all money from the centre goes through [well some of it] their adhesive fingers. This is nothing to do with torrents of history, only money. Plain and simple.

So do they benefit from central government embarrassment, yes, do they really care about the poor, no, indeed they want the poor to stay just as they are, after all they have to have a convenient market do they not?

Regards

/edit typos//

Edited April 29, 2010 by A_Traveller

[rabo]

what I asked for was the PTP/UDD/Red plan for revitalizing Isaan. Where is it?

I can not speak for the reds- but it may be that their 'plan' is simply this: that Thai society learns that any government that they elect must be permitted to govern wihtout military/judicial coups. Rightly or wrongly, I would expect that many of those who supported Thaksin believe they were robbed. People don't like being robbed. Now you can tell them that Thaksin was TOO corrupt (they'd fall over laughing- and I expect you would have a hard time keeping a staight face too- if you simply said that an official in Thailand was 'corrupt- so you have to say TOO corrupt) but they might think that the reason he was turfed had nothing to do with corruption- but rather because he threatened to shake up the establishment- and the system which legitimizes it- which they regard, perhaps with some cause, as having had a pretty good ride on the backs of the poor.

Now we can talk till we're blue in the face about what they 'should' and 'should not' think- but it won't matter.

This is the pickle we're all in now- and whatever is to be done?

As many predicted at the time of the coup- the genie was out of the bottle- there is not putting him back in. Even a rudimentary study of history shows that revolutions happen, not when people are ground down- but when they have been give hope- and then that hope, snatched from them. (check out the Crane Brinton theory of revolution- something that the coupsters should but probably did not study).

All discussion of 'shoulds' and 'should nots' become moot= drowned out in the raging torent of --- history and the forces that channel it.

Not a bad perspective. I doubt though that Thaksin's corruption raises much of an eyebrow, more likely a polite so what? Luh? But perhaps that's your point.

However, rather than resigning oneself, or rather Thailand, to a bloody peoples revolution and restoration of a man like Thaksin to power, why not look on the positive side, can a better path to the future be found? Must people always go through that horrid path? History has shown that such revolutions often betray the very people they claim to be saving. I'm sure you can think of several.

Very, very, few people in Thailand would want such a revolution especially to be involved, they just want something to get better and go about their way, which I assume you know.

Ngiht all, got to go to bed, hospital appointment tomorrow 10:00am

Edited April 29, 2010 by rabo