Buying A New Car For Long Distances

[frtiz]

Hi Everyone,

My car got stolen **%&%* earlier this month (Navara K/C MT SE) and I need to replace it.

I'm doing about 65K kms a year mostly long distance, driving back and forth to my house on the weekends (1000kms) and for work during the week. I'm pretty tall, 6'5",and I have a bad back due to an injury from the past, hence the reason I bought the navara before, spacious and good seats.

I'm playing with a couple of options:

buying a new navara, this time the LE version (abs airbags) with leather seats. It's fuel economy is pretty OK (I used to get around 12,5 Kms/ltr) but sometimes it's a bit of a rough ride and it depreciates quite fast.

A honda City or Jazz for the fuel economy and attractive pricing with the MT gearbox starting around 534K-560K. I don't particularly like the auto gearboxes. I like the looks and both drive pretty OK. The fact that you have a normal back seat instead of a glorified wooden plank seems appealing to me in case we get visitors from Europe. A 4 door pickup would cost a lot more in taxes. Unfortunately, I can't install an LPG installation within the first three years as warranty will be void after the installation.

A second hand car with a build in LPG kit. I am aware that there are new cars with CNG kits available but going over the 700K mark wouldn't be feasible for me at this point. The insurance cut us short 90K baht because we were 10 days into the second year of the insurance.

Basically I want a fuel efficient car, diesel or petrol/lpg combination. (ngv is out of the questions as it takes 3 refills to get home) I don't particularly care much about looks as long as it has a comfortable seat and enough space. Preferably a stationcar but they're not that hot here in Thailand, except for second hand volvo's.

Any suggestions, tips, comments?

Many thanks!

Fritz

Edited April 27, 2010 by frtiz

[thaicbr]

Proton Persona has cng as standard and is about 500 thou up. can run gasoline and gas. comfortable, decent size etc

see here http://www.protonthailand.com/index.php?ac...ome〈=en

[culicine]

My pick: ford focus diesel about 1.1million. One long runs it should return over 20 km/l. The average is about 17 km/l. A jazz might become tiresome on long runs or average roads.

[frtiz]

Proton Persona has cng as standard and is about 500 thou up. can run gasoline and gas. comfortable, decent size etc

see here http://www.protonthailand.com/index.php?ac...ome〈=en

I've done some searches on the proton but can't find anything on reliability on the long run. How will they hold up if you're doing a great amount of kms a year?

A colleague at my uni has the persona, looks OK but a lot of plastic. the mileage on one tank of CNG is only 200kms, that means 2 refills on a trip back home. and with the amount of people queuing up on the highway to refill, I'm not quite sure if I'd want to be part of that.

[frtiz]

My pick: ford focus diesel about 1.1million. One long runs it should return over 20 km/l. The average is about 17 km/l. A jazz might become tiresome on long runs or average roads.

I've looked at the focus as well but it's well beyond my budget, especially after the bastards literally emptied my house and I have to replace about 200K baht worth of stuff.

There aren't so many normal cars in Thailand running on diesel while it's a hype in Europe. all the major brands have these super fuel efficient small diesels which can easily do 25 km/ltr. I wish they'd introduce that here.

Edited April 27, 2010 by frtiz

[Zstarx]

I'd buy a 2 year old low kms Toyota Vigo 4 by 4 diesel auto. Let someone else take the new car hit . You will get good millage from the diesel, it will hold it's value, and I'd rather have an accident in a Vigo rather than a Jazz

[thaicbr]

the mileage on one tank of CNG is only 200kms

are you sure that seems mighty low.

[frtiz]

the mileage on one tank of CNG is only 200kms

are you sure that seems mighty low.

Well that's what the guys here say. Optra does about 220 highway kms on one tank of cng, Proton about the same 210kms.

[thaicbr]

oh ok for some reason i thought it was at least in the 300's. still it runs on gasoline as well right!

[Deeral]

be careful with leather seats - because of the more slippery surface you may slide around a little in your seat and your spine can find itself in angled positions that are not good for in the long run.

a fabric seat will have a higher coefficient of friction and hold you firmly in place.

[JohnLeech]

The Chevrolet Optra CNG wagon would seem ideal, but just out of your price range - they do have some very good deals, though.

On a different note, I can't work out why a company the size of Chevrolet didn't go for the more expensive "polo" style CNG tank replacing the spare wheel rather than a big tank taking up half the boot space - rather loses the point of the Optra estate or the Captiva if you can't put down the seats and use the room.

I also hadn't realised the mileage per tank was quite so low - that is a surprise.

[aussiebebe]

Hi Fritz,

sorry to hear about your misfortune with the robbery, hope the insurance comes through okay.

My first comment is; Good God you drive a lot! 65,000km/year!!!!

I wouldn't suggest a 2nd car, esp. not with LPG.

I wouldn't normally recommend CNG due to the limited range, however, as you drive so much, I think a good option would be a Chevrolet CNG Colorado, 2.5l 2WD X-cab LS. Chevy is doing a good deal at the moment with low interest terms and the Colorado is certainly appropriate for someone tall, like yourself. You'll see good returns with the diesel/NGV combo, and quickly too (around 2.5 years as you drive so much).

It's within your 700k budget and the best reason to go with Chevy is you can pay to get an extended 300,000km 5-year warranty, which about matches your driving.

[frtiz]

Hi Fritz,

sorry to hear about your misfortune with the robbery, hope the insurance comes through okay.

My first comment is; Good God you drive a lot! 65,000km/year!!!!

I wouldn't suggest a 2nd car, esp. not with LPG.

I wouldn't normally recommend CNG due to the limited range, however, as you drive so much, I think a good option would be a Chevrolet CNG Colorado, 2.5l 2WD X-cab LS. Chevy is doing a good deal at the moment with low interest terms and the Colorado is certainly appropriate for someone tall, like yourself. You'll see good returns with the diesel/NGV combo, and quickly too (around 2.5 years as you drive so much).

It's within your 700k budget and the best reason to go with Chevy is you can pay to get an extended 300,000km 5-year warranty, which about matches your driving.

Thanks for the suggestion (also to other people of course who have given suggestions on this thread), I never really thought about the combination but it sounds interesting. A reliable second hand car is hard to find here in Thailand for sure. The insurance is hopefully going to pay up in June. The police said I was lucky to still be alive after they took everything.

Does anyone know what the mileage would be with a CNG powered colorado? I assume the tank is slightly bigger than the CNG tank fitted onto a normal car. The normal trips I do is from Jomtien where my University is located back to our house in Nakhon Sawan as my wife works there. It's a good 430 kms, plus driving to the campus every day would add up to about a 1000kms a week. Plus holidays, weekend trips... 65K a year on average.

If I do the math it would be about half on cng and half on diesel/petrol. I don't like the idea of refilling half way as I dread the long ques on a Friday night/ Sunday afternoon, I see on the 32 going north, about the time that I'm supposed to fill up.

The price of 670K would be OK if the interest is not too high. I get the feeling the interest rates are better than last year.

Many thanks!

Fritz

[gregb]

the mileage on one tank of CNG is only 200kms

are you sure that seems mighty low.

The newspaper we are not allowed to name tested it out at 225 km. Alot depends on exactly how you drive the car. Obviously if you want to do 120 the whole way you are going to get worse fuel economy than doing 90. My converted Altis with the 21kg tank does over 350 km on NGV if driven carefully, and another 650+ on gasohol 91, for a total range of over 1000 km.

However, do keep in mind that NGV actually means dual fuel. This means, you can fill with petrol and CNG, and the car will automatically switch when your NGV tank runs out. If you are in the mood and in the range of a station, you can stop and refill. Otherwise, you can continue on traditional liquid fuels with no more than a passing knowledge that you just saved a whole bunch of money. To imply that your range in an NGV vehicle is limited only to the range of the NGV tank is incorrect.

With the kind of distances you are talking about, ruling out CNG strictly from bias does not make economic sense. Your range on a dual fuel vehicle is the range of the liquid tank plus the NGV tank. It is up to you whether you want to stop once, twice or for bathroom breaks every 10 km. That is simply a tradeoff between cost and convenience, and you can change your mind to suit your mood or pocket book at any time.

Besides, there is a great feeling of satisfaction that comes from paying 150 baht for a fillup.

My advice is seriously consider this option. There are currently 7 dual fuel/CNG vehicles available in Thailand, and any vehicle can be converted.

These are:

Chevrolet Optra Estate CNG

Mitsubishi Lancer CNG

Mercedes-Benz E200 NGT

Chevrolet Colorado CNG (diesel 65% NGV ratio)

Proton Persona CNG

Toyota Corolla Altis CNG

Hyundai Sonata CNG

Edited April 28, 2010 by gregb

[gregb]

Does anyone know what the mileage would be with a CNG powered colorado? I assume the tank is slightly bigger than the CNG tank fitted onto a normal car. The normal trips I do is from Jomtien where my University is located back to our house in Nakhon Sawan as my wife works there.

Approximately 200 km attributable to NGV alone, but you can continue further on diesel. Total range including 76 liter diesel tank is almost 1000 km. Ratio at highway speeds is 65% CNG, 35% diesel.

Tank is the same size as the tanks you will find on other NGV cars in Thailand.

[MoonRiverOasis]

There are currently 7 dual fuel/CNG vehicles available in Thailand, and any vehicle can be converted.

These are:

Chevrolet Optra Estate CNG

Mitsubishi Lancer CNG

Mercedes-Benz E200 NGT

Chevrolet Colorado CNG (diesel 65% NGV ratio)

Proton Persona CNG

Toyota Corolla Altis CNG

Hyundai Sonata CNG

Add the Mitsubishi Triton 2.4L Petrol/CNG to this..

[frtiz]

Does anyone know what the mileage would be with a CNG powered colorado? I assume the tank is slightly bigger than the CNG tank fitted onto a normal car. The normal trips I do is from Jomtien where my University is located back to our house in Nakhon Sawan as my wife works there.

Approximately 200 km attributable to NGV alone, but you can continue further on diesel. Total range including 76 liter diesel tank is almost 1000 km. Ratio at highway speeds is 65% CNG, 35% diesel.

Tank is the same size as the tanks you will find on other NGV cars in Thailand.

But due to the dual fuel system this would mean that I can probably do more than 200 kms right? I assume that if I use 65% CNG that should last about 300 kms in combination with diesel, adding 1/3 to the mileage. After 300kms diesel can take over from there.

If this is true it would be a real money saver. That would mean that on 2/3 of the trip I save up to 65% on diesel consumption by investing only 150 baht to fill up the CNG tank.

If this is true then normally a 300 km trip at 12km/ltr would cost around 700 baht for diesel at 28THB per liter

65% fuel saving on a trip of 300kms would be about 455 baht minus the cost of CNG = 300 THB straight in the pocket. I do this trip about 10 times a month which would be 3000 baht a month. Plus all the other small trips that you can with the dual fuel system it will probably be a saving of around 5000 baht a month, which is always more than welcome especially if you have to pay for all the other expenses that come with working elsewhere during the week.

I'll have a look at the colorado this weekend. The LS version seems to be pretty basic though.

The Triton doesn't come with a CNG built in right? Would that mean that the warranty is void after installation?

[Tanaka]

Does anyone know what the mileage would be with a CNG powered colorado? I assume the tank is slightly bigger than the CNG tank fitted onto a normal car. The normal trips I do is from Jomtien where my University is located back to our house in Nakhon Sawan as my wife works there.

Approximately 200 km attributable to NGV alone, but you can continue further on diesel. Total range including 76 liter diesel tank is almost 1000 km. Ratio at highway speeds is 65% CNG, 35% diesel.

Tank is the same size as the tanks you will find on other NGV cars in Thailand.

But due to the dual fuel system this would mean that I can probably do more than 200 kms right? I assume that if I use 65% CNG that should last about 300 kms in combination with diesel, adding 1/3 to the mileage. After 300kms diesel can take over from there.

If this is true it would be a real money saver. That would mean that on 2/3 of the trip I save up to 65% on diesel consumption by investing only 150 baht to fill up the CNG tank.

If this is true then normally a 300 km trip at 12km/ltr would cost around 700 baht for diesel at 28THB per liter

65% fuel saving on a trip of 300kms would be about 455 baht minus the cost of CNG = 300 THB straight in the pocket. I do this trip about 10 times a month which would be 3000 baht a month. Plus all the other small trips that you can with the dual fuel system it will probably be a saving of around 5000 baht a month, which is always more than welcome especially if you have to pay for all the other expenses that come with working elsewhere during the week.

I'll have a look at the colorado this weekend. The LS version seems to be pretty basic though.

The Triton doesn't come with a CNG built in right? Would that mean that the warranty is void after installation?

Also have a look at resale value of a Colorado. They are not rated very high by thais so the price you are likely to get when it is time to change next time is not something to write home about.

[frtiz]

Does anyone know what the mileage would be with a CNG powered colorado? I assume the tank is slightly bigger than the CNG tank fitted onto a normal car. The normal trips I do is from Jomtien where my University is located back to our house in Nakhon Sawan as my wife works there.

Approximately 200 km attributable to NGV alone, but you can continue further on diesel. Total range including 76 liter diesel tank is almost 1000 km. Ratio at highway speeds is 65% CNG, 35% diesel.

Tank is the same size as the tanks you will find on other NGV cars in Thailand.

But due to the dual fuel system this would mean that I can probably do more than 200 kms right? I assume that if I use 65% CNG that should last about 300 kms in combination with diesel, adding 1/3 to the mileage. After 300kms diesel can take over from there.

If this is true it would be a real money saver. That would mean that on 2/3 of the trip I save up to 65% on diesel consumption by investing only 150 baht to fill up the CNG tank.

If this is true then normally a 300 km trip at 12km/ltr would cost around 700 baht for diesel at 28THB per liter

65% fuel saving on a trip of 300kms would be about 455 baht minus the cost of CNG = 300 THB straight in the pocket. I do this trip about 10 times a month which would be 3000 baht a month. Plus all the other small trips that you can with the dual fuel system it will probably be a saving of around 5000 baht a month, which is always more than welcome especially if you have to pay for all the other expenses that come with working elsewhere during the week.

I'll have a look at the colorado this weekend. The LS version seems to be pretty basic though.

The Triton doesn't come with a CNG built in right? Would that mean that the warranty is void after installation?

Also have a look at resale value of a Colorado. They are not rated very high by thais so the price you are likely to get when it is time to change next time is not something to write home about.

that goes for many other models as well. I don't think that I'll get that much back after 4 years and 230K km on the clock.... Maybe it's worthwhile just keeping it and being a new one after 4 years.

[MoonRiverOasis]

The Triton doesn't come with a CNG built in right? Would that mean that the warranty is void after installation?

There are two models of Triton CNG (single + extended cab) - see here.

[frtiz]

After test driving a lot of cars this weekend I've sort of made up my mind.

Honda civic was wonderful, great drive, handling is wonderful but a bit expensive especially because you don't get a discount, no insurance and registration and there is no CNG or LPG version available.

Honda city. Nice drive, comes standard with ABS and other stuff, is relatively cheap. The boot is actually bigger than the Civic and a gas installation is easily fitted in there.

The Altis comes with CNG but it's a rather bare version of the car, and still expensive with only a 1.6 engine for a good 750K.

Vios and Yaris were too small.

We've looked at the proton but my general impression was that everything was a bit thin and a lot of plastic. Also I wasn't really convinced of the quality of the engine on the long run.

Buying a pick up truck would in the end defeat the purpose of cutting back on expenses every month as these can be pretty high with 55-60K kms a year. (Although I'd love to buy a pickup again, Dmax)

So finally we tentatively decided to go for the Honda City MT. In Nakhon Sawan the Honda dealer had a show model of which the financing was turned down by the bank. Hence the reason they had an MT version. We offered cash for the car and were told that we had to buy another 25K baht worth of accessories in order to get the car, either leather seats or skirts. I was baffled. why would I want that? Reversed logic here in Thailand. So I have the choice now to wait for three months and order the car in Ayuthaya or rethink my choices. They made us a nice offer and it seems to be a pretty straightforward bunch of people there. Has anyone had this before?

Fritz

[Lancashirelad]

Just another point Fritz, speaking with my Driving Instructor's hat on:

You mention you have a back problem. Many drivers make their back problem worse without realizing it. They tend to drive almost lying down with the seat very reclined. This is not good!

When holding the wheel with hands at the 1/4 to 3 position, your elbows should be just slightly bent. You should also be able to reach the top of the wheel without having to lean forwards.

On long journeys, vary the angle of the back rake slightly from time to time.

Also, back sufferers generally tend to find automatics easier on their back. Buy a vehicle with cruise control if possible.

When i read your OP, straight away i thought of a diesel Ford Focus: a fast, comfortable, economical, roomy, well built car, but guessed it would be over budget IF NEW.

[Bobr]

I'm 6' 4" and I'm comfortable in my Yaris. Not the most exciting car in the World, but its first 34,000 km have been flawless and the fuel economy is great. I also like a 5 speed and have never bought a car with automatic.

[frtiz]

Thanks for your suggestions. Helpful. I've always been trying to vary the position of my back during a long drive however, with these small Asian cars that's sometimes quite challenging.

I've been looking for a 2nd hand Ford Focus. There are some around but I'm not quite sure about why people would sell a focus after 2-3 years. I haven't seen a 2nd hand diesel though.

One of the most popular/reliable, but slightly boring, diesel engines in Europe, the 1900 tdi by Volkswagen (Passat) is also interesting. I've seen some offered 2nd hand on some of the Thai websites. I'm not sure how they hold up in this climate though.

Just another point Fritz, speaking with my Driving Instructor's hat on:

You mention you have a back problem. Many drivers make their back problem worse without realizing it. They tend to drive almost lying down with the seat very reclined. This is not good!

When holding the wheel with hands at the 1/4 to 3 position, your elbows should be just slightly bent. You should also be able to reach the top of the wheel without having to lean forwards.

On long journeys, vary the angle of the back rake slightly from time to time.

Also, back sufferers generally tend to find automatics easier on their back. Buy a vehicle with cruise control if possible.

When i read your OP, straight away i thought of a diesel Ford Focus: a fast, comfortable, economical, roomy, well built car, but guessed it would be over budget IF NEW.

[Sophon]

I've been looking for a 2nd hand Ford Focus. There are some around but I'm not quite sure about why people would sell a focus after 2-3 years. I haven't seen a 2nd hand diesel though.

Actually Expat Motors currently have a 2009 Focus for sale at THB 798,000. I realize that this is a little out of your budget, and the car is in Phuket so it may also not be practical (unless you fancy a holiday at the beach?).

Sophon

[MoonRiverOasis]

I'm not quite sure about why people would sell a focus after 2-3 years.

I always turn over my cars every 1.5-3 years, usually because I'm buying something newer, more expensive or I'm just plain bored with them. Never because there was anything wrong with them (if there was, that'd be covered by warranty anyway).. There has to be others like me

[VocalNeal]

One of the most popular/reliable, but slightly boring, diesel engines in Europe, the 1900 tdi by Volkswagen (Passat) is also interesting. I've seen some offered 2nd hand on some of the Thai websites. I'm not sure how they hold up in this climate though.

fritz,

Not sure why TDI would be boring for long distance. You can always chip it for 200 Euro.

If suitable for your needs it may be worth a call to the nearest VW dealer, there are a few in Bangkok, and tell them you want a used Passat. I have friend with one and he is quite happy.

[Lumumba]

Thanks for your suggestions. Helpful. I've always been trying to vary the position of my back during a long drive however, with these small Asian cars that's sometimes quite challenging.

I've been looking for a 2nd hand Ford Focus. There are some around but I'm not quite sure about why people would sell a focus after 2-3 years. I haven't seen a 2nd hand diesel though.

One of the most popular/reliable, but slightly boring, diesel engines in Europe, the 1900 tdi by Volkswagen (Passat) is also interesting. I've seen some offered 2nd hand on some of the Thai websites. I'm not sure how they hold up in this climate though.

Just another point Fritz, speaking with my Driving Instructor's hat on:

You mention you have a back problem. Many drivers make their back problem worse without realizing it. They tend to drive almost lying down with the seat very reclined. This is not good!

When holding the wheel with hands at the 1/4 to 3 position, your elbows should be just slightly bent. You should also be able to reach the top of the wheel without having to lean forwards.

On long journeys, vary the angle of the back rake slightly from time to time.

Also, back sufferers generally tend to find automatics easier on their back. Buy a vehicle with cruise control if possible.

When i read your OP, straight away i thought of a diesel Ford Focus: a fast, comfortable, economical, roomy, well built car, but guessed it would be over budget IF NEW.

I sold my Focus in December 2007, for B590000, with about 50000kms/2 year use.Whoever got that car must be surprised at its condition as I had 2 others at the time,I only used it for for my samui/phuket/Pai jaunts.

Mrs kept saying made look like a player, though i was a bit that, but then so many began to recognise me with it, and it had to go.

You mentioned bad back, Focus should be your car, the bucket seat, and the mesh center and head rest coupled with the steering will make the long trips seem like fun.and make sure you get the 2.0 version, I am just waiting for the next generation. I can buy same thing twice, now would you?

Edited May 10, 2010 by Lumumba

[Jonny B]

can the ford wildtrak be converted to ngv?

[frtiz]

Hi,

The reason why I hesitate to buy a 2nd hand car is the fact that it might be stolen. Especially cars that are only 2 years old.

I've heard so many stories from people whose car got reclaimed after it was located as stolen. They bought it from what are perceived to be 'reliable' car tents. Also I'm alarmed by the number of cars that got stolen which were just a couple of weeks into the 2nd year of their insurance. There tends to be a lucrative gap between the market value and the amount paid up by the insurance companies.

My car had an estimated market value of around 500K. The insurance company only pays us 430K. I've heard of other companies who cut you 20% over the first year and 20% in the 2nd. Well TIT.

buying directly from a person you know would probably the answer.

Thanks for your suggestions. Helpful. I've always been trying to vary the position of my back during a long drive however, with these small Asian cars that's sometimes quite challenging.

I've been looking for a 2nd hand Ford Focus. There are some around but I'm not quite sure about why people would sell a focus after 2-3 years. I haven't seen a 2nd hand diesel though.

One of the most popular/reliable, but slightly boring, diesel engines in Europe, the 1900 tdi by Volkswagen (Passat) is also interesting. I've seen some offered 2nd hand on some of the Thai websites. I'm not sure how they hold up in this climate though.

Just another point Fritz, speaking with my Driving Instructor's hat on:

You mention you have a back problem. Many drivers make their back problem worse without realizing it. They tend to drive almost lying down with the seat very reclined. This is not good!

When holding the wheel with hands at the 1/4 to 3 position, your elbows should be just slightly bent. You should also be able to reach the top of the wheel without having to lean forwards.

On long journeys, vary the angle of the back rake slightly from time to time.

Also, back sufferers generally tend to find automatics easier on their back. Buy a vehicle with cruise control if possible.

When i read your OP, straight away i thought of a diesel Ford Focus: a fast, comfortable, economical, roomy, well built car, but guessed it would be over budget IF NEW.

I sold my Focus in December 2007, for B590000, with about 50000kms/2 year use.Whoever got that car must be surprised at its condition as I had 2 others at the time,I only used it for for my samui/phuket/Pai jaunts.

Mrs kept saying made look like a player, though i was a bit that, but then so many began to recognise me with it, and it had to go.

You mentioned bad back, Focus should be your car, the bucket seat, and the mesh center and head rest coupled with the steering will make the long trips seem like fun.and make sure you get the 2.0 version, I am just waiting for the next generation. I can buy same thing twice, now would you?