Thai Govt, PM Abhisit Not Looking At The Big Picture

[NCFC]

The Nation newspaper criticizes Abhisit and the Democrat Party because the Nation fully expects the Democrats to be dissolved in the near future. The Democrats have served their purpose and are about to be flushed away. In their place is the New Party of the yellow-shirts, far more right-wing and far more in tune with the demands of those who really rule the country.

[zorm999]

I completely disagree.

In denying the right of the mob to overturn the government he is probably sacrificing himself to solve the problem of the big picture.

The problem is that the precedent has been set that "mob" protest can remove governments and Abhisit is trying to stop that process.

mate, how refreshing that you disagree with me but can do it in a civil way. being 100% serious here, we all have different opinions and great to see somone can articulate thier differing views wihout resorting to the abuse, name calling etc which normally happens on here.

I agree with you that he should not give in to violence but I still beilve that he is incorrect to state that he 'is in control'

Ironically, the longer this thing goes on, the more I'm convinced that the government and army are handling this in the best (or more accurately, least worst) way, given the very poor options they have to work with.

You're right, Abhisit's not totally in control, but to be fair he has contained the protest to a very small (although very significant) part of Bangkok. For the most part, 95% of people in Bangkok have been able to go about their normal lives without too much disruption. When things have flared up both in Bangkok and in other parts, it's generally been dealt with and a day or so later things are more or less back under control.

Granted, for a small part of Bangkok's population, it has been horribly disruptive. But for most, the disruption has mostly been either fairly minor (no Paragon or more traffic) or fairly short-lived. But I think it's unfair to blame these disruptions on the government - the real blame lies squarely with the red shirt leaders.

Expecting Abhisit to sanction force against such a large and aggressive crowd could only end in disaster. And calling an election only continues the cycle of mob rule. I don't think he's done everything right through all of this, but I do think being patient despite the disruption it's caused has been the wisest course of action. I know a lot of people on this forum will vehemently disagree, but that will always be the case.

[Thai at Heart]

I completely disagree.

In denying the right of the mob to overturn the government he is probably sacrificing himself to solve the problem of the big picture.

The problem is that the precedent has been set that "mob" protest can remove governments and Abhisit is trying to stop that process.

mate, how refreshing that you disagree with me but can do it in a civil way. being 100% serious here, we all have different opinions and great to see somone can articulate thier differing views wihout resorting to the abuse, name calling etc which normally happens on here.

I agree with you that he should not give in to violence but I still beilve that he is incorrect to state that he 'is in control'

I wouldn't have doubted that he could say he was in control. What else was he going to say?

[asiawatcher]

It confirms several points;

1- Abhisit is a Partisan leader not a stateman able to overpass his party for the safe of the Nation.

2- How stubborn and selfish most of the Thai Politicians are.

3- Unfortunately, we are heading to a major conflict which can be out of hand

4- IMHO, it is paradoxical, because I am fundamentally for democracy and against a coup-, but in those circumstances Anupong has shown restraints and -it is my feeling- he appreciates the situation far better than the Government. He should take over and named Anand for a transition period, organising elections after setting up fair rules.

I am all for a military intervention - induct the rank and file Police into the army and remove Police NCO's and up completely for refusing to act, allowing seizure of Govt assets (only in Thailand) and then apply military rule, as in 2006. They managed to wipe 800BN Baht off the value of Thai stocks in a week, the currency became softer and Thailand benefitted as a whole. Maybe that was not intended as the military has little or no business sense, but the present situation is untenable in all aspects. Dissolution of the Govt may not be a bad idea - Somalia is a great example of not what to do.

Democracy being sprouted is not the answer, reconstruction of the constitution and the civil code is. Thailand cannot continue in its current vein. It has to change and a good start is to introduce English language media and lessons at all levels of education so Thailand can become truly a part of the global community and not just the well-off privileged few. Unfortunately the army IS a solution right now and perhaps should be.

Do not mistaken...

IMHO, Anupong should take over to give back the Power to ANAND, like it has been done once in Thai History. Anand is a real stateman, appreciated by most of Thais and able to handle a transition, preparing fresh elections within a good environment (rules) and cleaning a little the corruption. It is just a temporay period of few months. Time also that things cool down.

I love it - yes, Anand is a good option but Anupong has proven to be totally ineffective and two sided (Tang Lung) to Abhisit. There should be a redraft of the constitution and international overseers to that process. Holding elections right now would be pointless. Would anyone in Thailand really want to be governed by these red shirt leaders? Similarly when so many blatant lies and deliberate misinformation and denials are flying, then truth becomes obsolete and all sides will promise anything to obtain power and continue the corrupt paying process this country does NOT need. Your point about corruption is also the most valid. The "dis-ease" of Thailand is its ability to never address and simply accept corruption is normalcy here !

[hammered]

It confirms several points;

1- Abhisit is a Partisan leader not a stateman able to overpass his party for the safe of the Nation.

2- How stubborn and selfish most of the Thai Politicians are.

3- Unfortunately, we are heading to a major conflict which can be out of hand

4- IMHO, it is paradoxical, because I am fundamentally for democracy and against a coup-, but in those circumstances Anupong has shown restraints and -it is my feeling- he appreciates the situation far better than the Government. He should take over and named Anand for a transition period, organising elections after setting up fair rules.

I am all for a military intervention - induct the rank and file Police into the army and remove Police NCO's and up completely for refusing to act, allowing seizure of Govt assets (only in Thailand) and then apply military rule, as in 2006. They managed to wipe 800BN Baht off the value of Thai stocks in a week, the currency became softer and Thailand benefitted as a whole. Maybe that was not intended as the military has little or no business sense, but the present situation is untenable in all aspects. Dissolution of the Govt may not be a bad idea - Somalia is a great example of not what to do.

Democracy being sprouted is not the answer, reconstruction of the constitution and the civil code is. Thailand cannot continue in its current vein. It has to change and a good start is to introduce English language media and lessons at all levels of education so Thailand can become truly a part of the global community and not just the well-off privileged few. Unfortunately the army IS a solution right now and perhaps should be.

Do not mistaken...

IMHO, Anupong should take over to give back the Power to ANAND, like it has been done once in Thai History. Anand is a real stateman, appreciated by most of Thais and able to handle a transition, preparing fresh elections within a good environment (rules) and cleaning a little the corruption. It is just a temporay period of few months. Time also that things cool down.

Interesting to see you propose a coup. If there were one Anand would be about the only person they could get away with as PM. However, he has said frequently he doesnt want to be a politician again. A coup would also face opposition form abroad and within the country. To calm things down even if opposition were limited would take many months. However, you do try to address the problem of how do we get to a fair election where everyone can campaign anywhere and where the result will be accepted which is going to be a monster problem in the future. Another problem with your idea is that Anupong has through several governments shown he doesnt want to move and it is unlikley he would want to launch a coup. There may be other generals who would happily do it though

Anyone who just thinks oh we will have an election and it will all be fine is just a player in this game

[Jerrytheyoung]

I completely disagree.

In denying the right of the mob to overturn the government he is probably sacrificing himself to solve the problem of the big picture.

The problem is that the precedent has been set that "mob" protest can remove governments and Abhisit is trying to stop that process.

First I would like to enlight that the "Mob" demonstrations are always done by a small percentage of active people. Most of a population is not directly involved and just following. History, in fact is done by those active people.

Secondly, the main Party who has won the Elections has been frustrated from Power by a coalition result of politician negotiations: not a very clean situation, even if it is within the rules. We can understand the frustration of the Party and its followers (UDD announced more than 12 millions members, of which I agree, only a small percentage is active- But this is a normal siituation throughout the world)

Thirdly, we are exactly on the Spanish scheme of 1933/ 1936, with a common feature between Thais and Spanishes: lovely people, but can be very stubborn and quite proud.

History will forget most of the details and will remember essentially the winner.

In summary, some Thais people are estimating they have won the elections but it has been confiscated through politician wangling; they request a new vote and I think this request is fair enough; the "mob" is justified, but this is driving us to an infernal cycle of violences: we have to get out from this spinning into a Civil War. We have to help to cool down this situation. Democrats and Red Shirts have to be separated: a referee has to intervene, a cooling period is required.

[zorm999]

It confirms several points;

1- Abhisit is a Partisan leader not a stateman able to overpass his party for the safe of the Nation.

2- How stubborn and selfish most of the Thai Politicians are.

3- Unfortunately, we are heading to a major conflict which can be out of hand

4- IMHO, it is paradoxical, because I am fundamentally for democracy and against a coup-, but in those circumstances Anupong has shown restraints and -it is my feeling- he appreciates the situation far better than the Government. He should take over and named Anand for a transition period, organising elections after setting up fair rules.

TiT ... reds may pack up and go home any day now with some very harsh words of how evil the PM is and how they have proved it for all the world to see. They won't mention the rain, their becoming marginalized, stuck in one place with the gov't not taking their bate, lost support & followers ... and lets not forget about the rain.

This would be by far the best outcome to the whole situation! The reds announce they will close down their encampment, return the centre of Bangkok to "the people" and, having made their point loud and clear, continue their protest in a way that is less destructive, less disruptive and dare I say it, more democratic.

Oh to dream...

[hammered]

I think people are going to need to factor in the comments Sondhi just made and which webfact has kindly posted on the news thread via Tulsie.

There have now been several powerful people say very similar things to Sondhi. And however you analyse it the Dems are getting caught in the middle now.

[Jerrytheyoung]

It confirms several points;

1- Abhisit is a Partisan leader not a stateman able to overpass his party for the safe of the Nation.

2- How stubborn and selfish most of the Thai Politicians are.

3- Unfortunately, we are heading to a major conflict which can be out of hand

4- IMHO, it is paradoxical, because I am fundamentally for democracy and against a coup-, but in those circumstances Anupong has shown restraints and -it is my feeling- he appreciates the situation far better than the Government. He should take over and named Anand for a transition period, organising elections after setting up fair rules.

I am all for a military intervention - induct the rank and file Police into the army and remove Police NCO's and up completely for refusing to act, allowing seizure of Govt assets (only in Thailand) and then apply military rule, as in 2006. They managed to wipe 800BN Baht off the value of Thai stocks in a week, the currency became softer and Thailand benefitted as a whole. Maybe that was not intended as the military has little or no business sense, but the present situation is untenable in all aspects. Dissolution of the Govt may not be a bad idea - Somalia is a great example of not what to do.

Democracy being sprouted is not the answer, reconstruction of the constitution and the civil code is. Thailand cannot continue in its current vein. It has to change and a good start is to introduce English language media and lessons at all levels of education so Thailand can become truly a part of the global community and not just the well-off privileged few. Unfortunately the army IS a solution right now and perhaps should be.

Do not mistaken...

IMHO, Anupong should take over to give back the Power to ANAND, like it has been done once in Thai History. Anand is a real stateman, appreciated by most of Thais and able to handle a transition, preparing fresh elections within a good environment (rules) and cleaning a little the corruption. It is just a temporay period of few months. Time also that things cool down.

I love it - yes, Anand is a good option but Anupong has proven to be totally ineffective and two sided (Tang Lung) to Abhisit. There should be a redraft of the constitution and international overseers to that process. Holding elections right now would be pointless. Would anyone in Thailand really want to be governed by these red shirt leaders? Similarly when so many blatant lies and deliberate misinformation and denials are flying, then truth becomes obsolete and all sides will promise anything to obtain power and continue the corrupt paying process this country does NOT need. Your point about corruption is also the most valid. The "dis-ease" of Thailand is its ability to never address and simply accept corruption is normalcy here !

IMHO, Anupong has realised that the Country, its Police and its Army are divided in the same way. He has understood that any strong intervention will degenerate in the uncontrollable. I do think, he understand fully the situation above any Party and try to control the situation for the sake and Unity of the Country. He is also the way to put in place ANAND.

[quiksilva]

Sondhi (as yellow as he is) has made some good points recently i.e.

Tranlsation via Tulsathit's twitter

Sondhi said:

1. Thailand's problem is far beyond Thaksin now, and even if he dies, it will not end.

2. Democrats are largely responsible for escalation of the problem, through their efforts to look "neutral", which failed badly.

3. "let's make clear that whoever wants 2 protect monarchy must step ths way" & proceed from there to stop the opposite movement.

4. Then a big national revolution is required on all three major fronts _ economic, social and political _ so reconciliation can begin.

Ok... rather than getting into a red vs yellow vs rainbow mud slinging fight lets try and discuss ways to get people back to the negotiating table. (Despite the fact that our opinions are not likely to be heard by anyone who matters, but hey its a public forum to discuss theses events so why not)

So for what its worth here goes

Challenge one: To create an atmosphere where talks can take place, both parties should follow great suggestions outlined by the Human Rights Watch here

All parties should immediately cease political violence, the government should hold those responsible accountable, and Thai leaders should end censorship of a satellite television station, more than 10 radio and television stations, and 36 internet sites.

When this happens, the protest leaders should submit a complete list of their demands to an independent mutually acceptable arbitrator.

There is no point I think in a face to face at this stage, emotions will only likely get in the way. So these demands should be discussed with the government by the third party and compromises be sought.

I think the crux of the matter will boil down to the charter, Reds want '97 back, the Dems dont.

They want a new one based on the '97 charter but revised in such a way which makes it acceptable to everybody.

To ensure that everybody has their say this should then signed off with a national referendum.

A date for an election should also be agreed upon, and house dissolved in such a timeframe that allows this referendum and charter amendment to take place.

It will be important for both sides to publicly stand by the newly revised mutually agreeable constitution. A new deal for Thailand so to speak.

A way out can be found but it requires both sides to put their egos, distrust, and paranoia aside and build trust by taking positive steps forward.

[whybother]

I completely disagree.

In denying the right of the mob to overturn the government he is probably sacrificing himself to solve the problem of the big picture.

The problem is that the precedent has been set that "mob" protest can remove governments and Abhisit is trying to stop that process.

First I would like to enlight that the "Mob" demonstrations are always done by a small percentage of active people. Most of a population is not directly involved and just following. History, in fact is done by those active people.

Secondly, the main Party who has won the Elections has been frustrated from Power by a coalition result of politician negotiations: not a very clean situation, even if it is within the rules. We can understand the frustration of the Party and its followers (UDD announced more than 12 millions members, of which I agree, only a small percentage is active- But this is a normal siituation throughout the world)

Thirdly, we are exactly on the Spanish scheme of 1933/ 1936, with a common feature between Thais and Spanishes: lovely people, but can be very stubborn and quite proud.

History will forget most of the details and will remember essentially the winner.

In summary, some Thais people are estimating they have won the elections but it has been confiscated through politician wangling; they request a new vote and I think this request is fair enough; the "mob" is justified, but this is driving us to an infernal cycle of violences: we have to get out from this spinning into a Civil War. We have to help to cool down this situation. Democrats and Red Shirts have to be separated: a referee has to intervene, a cooling period is required.

Maybe as part of the preparations for the next election, there should be an education campaign on how the electoral process works.

And specifically, that a large minority does not give a party the right to be in government.

[hammered]

Sondhi (as yellow as he is) has made some good points recently i.e.

Tranlsation via Tulsathit's twitter

Sondhi said:

1. Thailand's problem is far beyond Thaksin now, and even if he dies, it will not end.

2. Democrats are largely responsible for escalation of the problem, through their efforts to look "neutral", which failed badly.

3. "let's make clear that whoever wants 2 protect monarchy must step ths way" & proceed from there to stop the opposite movement.

4. Then a big national revolution is required on all three major fronts _ economic, social and political _ so reconciliation can begin.

Ok... rather than getting into a red vs yellow vs rainbow mud slinging fight lets try and discuss ways to get people back to the negotiating table. (Despite the fact that our opinions are not likely to be heard by anyone who matters, but hey its a public forum to discuss theses events so why not)

So for what its worth here goes

Challenge one: To create an atmosphere where talks can take place, both parties should follow great suggestions outlined by the Human Rights Watch here

All parties should immediately cease political violence, the government should hold those responsible accountable, and Thai leaders should end censorship of a satellite television station, more than 10 radio and television stations, and 36 internet sites.

When this happens, the protest leaders should submit a complete list of their demands to an independent mutually acceptable arbitrator.

There is no point I think in a face to face at this stage, emotions will only likely get in the way. So these demands should be discussed with the government by the third party and compromises be sought.

I think the crux of the matter will boil down to the charter, Reds want '97 back, the Dems dont.

They want a new one based on the '97 charter but revised in such a way which makes it acceptable to everybody.

To ensure that everybody has their say this should then signed off with a national referendum.

A date for an election should also be agreed upon, and house dissolved in such a timeframe that allows this referendum and charter amendment to take place.

It will be important for both sides to publicly stand by the newly revised mutually agreeable constitution. A new deal for Thailand so to speak.

A way out can be found but it requires both sides to put their egos, distrust, and paranoia aside and build trust by taking positive steps forward.

This is not just Dems versus reds. There are multiple power players and they would all have to be included in negotiations. If that isnt accepted then there would be no point having them

As Thailand is so divided making a constitution that must be voted up in every region and then can only be ammended by majority in every region would literally make it impossible for any power group to load it their way and it would also recognise and protect the minority. Winner takes all stuff just aint going to cut it in this atmosphere

[lannarebirth]

I think people are going to need to factor in the comments Sondhi just made and which webfact has kindly posted on the news thread via Tulsie.

There have now been several powerful people say very similar things to Sondhi. And however you analyse it the Dems are getting caught in the middle now.

Sondhi's probably right about the Big Picture, but I think that's Abhisit's whole raison d' etre isn't it, to be that transformative PM? I'm not saying he can pull it off, but he represents the political dialogue aspect to this solution. The guns in the street aspect may prove too much for him though.

Edited April 29, 2010 by lannarebirth

[Jerrytheyoung]

I think people are going to need to factor in the comments Sondhi just made and which webfact has kindly posted on the news thread via Tulsie.

There have now been several powerful people say very similar things to Sondhi. And however you analyse it the Dems are getting caught in the middle now.

Sondhi's probably right about the Big Picture, but I think that's Abhisit's whole raison d' etre isn't it, to be that transformative PM? I'm not saying he can pull it off, but he represents the political dialogue aspect to this solution. The guns in the street aspect may prove too much for him though.

Abhisit has failed. He cannot represent the dialog: on contrary he is an obstacle to a solution

[lannarebirth]

I think people are going to need to factor in the comments Sondhi just made and which webfact has kindly posted on the news thread via Tulsie.

There have now been several powerful people say very similar things to Sondhi. And however you analyse it the Dems are getting caught in the middle now.

Sondhi's probably right about the Big Picture, but I think that's Abhisit's whole raison d' etre isn't it, to be that transformative PM? I'm not saying he can pull it off, but he represents the political dialogue aspect to this solution. The guns in the street aspect may prove too much for him though.

Abhisit has failed. He cannot represent the dialog: on contrary he is an obstacle to a solution

So you think extra constitutional parties should cut a deal between each other for however long that may last?

[quiksilva]

This is not just Dems versus reds. There are multiple power players and they would all have to be included in negotiations. If that isnt accepted then there would be no point having them

As Thailand is so divided making a constitution that must be voted up in every region and then can only be ammended by majority in every region would literally make it impossible for any power group to load it their way and it would also recognise and protect the minority. Winner takes all stuff just aint going to cut it in this atmosphere

I like idea of having it amended by the majority of every region but isn't that what MP's are supposed to represent?

I completely agree a winner takes all mentality is not going to work, and if you have ever tried to negotiate a deal here you'll know that alone will be be tough for many on all sides to accept but not all, and those people who understand that point are the ones (on both sides) who must be strong and work on their compatriots to see the benefit of a win win win win win win agreement..

[hammered]

I think people are going to need to factor in the comments Sondhi just made and which webfact has kindly posted on the news thread via Tulsie.

There have now been several powerful people say very similar things to Sondhi. And however you analyse it the Dems are getting caught in the middle now.

Sondhi's probably right about the Big Picture, but I think that's Abhisit's whole raison d' etre isn't it, to be that transformative PM? I'm not saying he can pull it off, but he represents the political dialogue aspect to this solution. The guns in the street aspect may prove too much for him though.

Abhisit has failed. He cannot represent the dialog: on contrary he is an obstacle to a solution

Abhisit, Suthep, Chavalit, Thaksin etc etc. All are too discredited and divisive

Then factor in Sondhi, the PAD and Newin have all spoken and have been critical of the Dems as well as basically identifying the reds as disloyal. Then try to find common ground between the this lot and the reds.

The good news is that Sondhi and the reds seem to be on the same page as far as economic and social revolution goes. The bad news is things are building very rapidly over emotive issues

[Jerrytheyoung]

I think people are going to need to factor in the comments Sondhi just made and which webfact has kindly posted on the news thread via Tulsie.

There have now been several powerful people say very similar things to Sondhi. And however you analyse it the Dems are getting caught in the middle now.

Sondhi's probably right about the Big Picture, but I think that's Abhisit's whole raison d' etre isn't it, to be that transformative PM? I'm not saying he can pull it off, but he represents the political dialogue aspect to this solution. The guns in the street aspect may prove too much for him though.

Abhisit has failed. He cannot represent the dialog: on contrary he is an obstacle to a solution

So you think extra constitutional parties should cut a deal between each other for however long that may last?

When we are in such a situation, a temporary outsider must be nominated with a limited mandate for managing the situation and rewriting the rules which obviously are not working. A consensus must be obtained on the new rules.

[Jerrytheyoung]

I also like the idea of decentralised power to Regions (But not the current administrative division of Thailand, larger regions...something like 10 or 12 regions- Example Issan as a block). I have understood also that it was a key factor in the origin of the Southern unrest.

The decentralised (limited) power brings the democracy closer to People, eases their involvement in the surveillance of Politics and gives better results for the local infrastructure investment decisions.

[way2muchcoffee]

I also like the idea of decentralised power to Regions (But not the current administrative division of Thailand, larger regions...something like 10 or 12 regions- Example Issan as a block). I have understood also that it was a key factor in the origin of the Southern unrest.

The decentralised (limited) power brings the democracy closer to People, eases their involvement in the surveillance of Politics and gives better results for the local infrastructure investment decisions.

Decentralization could help. It would require a lot more effort to combat corruption though. Also if there were large divisions they should be population based and not land based so that each region fairly represents a similar portion of the population.

[hammered]

The theoretical idea of Anand is good in that if all agreed to he couldnt really be criticised for his loyalty credentials. If the red movement were to accept him it would calm that angle

However to talk ideas here is one thing. The world out there is a lot more difficult

[Jerrytheyoung]

IMHO, it should be a set of measures announced in which ANAND is one. The Elections must be announced and the setting up of several Committees of which one for Election Rules, another one for reconciliation....

Immediate measures to save the income of farmers ....

[Jerrytheyoung]

Double posting....sorry

Edited April 29, 2010 by Jerrytheyoung

[ThisIsMadness]

to hide the fact that the Democrats were not properly elected to office in the first place

OMG how is it that there are still people that don't understand the electoral system here in Thailand. Every MP was elected by his/her constituents and the current government is a coalition of parties whose MPs together form a voting majority and represent the majority of Thais. This government was elected, formed in accordance to the constitution (both pre and post coup) and is the result of the PT party's former manifestation being found guilty of vote buying (evidence of which is on video I believe).

Nick, words fail me and thanks for taking your time to point it out to them again

It seems the red supporters here at least on this forum,just dont want to understand the truth of this situation.

[Insight]

Thaksin's family has just been moved out of harms way again. Some people speculate that this is due to his suspected illness. I personally think a response to yesterdays attack from the army is being planned.

We'll find out soon enough.

[Jerrytheyoung]

to hide the fact that the Democrats were not properly elected to office in the first place

OMG how is it that there are still people that don't understand the electoral system here in Thailand. Every MP was elected by his/her constituents and the current government is a coalition of parties whose MPs together form a voting majority and represent the majority of Thais. This government was elected, formed in accordance to the constitution (both pre and post coup) and is the result of the PT party's former manifestation being found guilty of vote buying (evidence of which is on video I believe).

Nick, words fail me and thanks for taking your time to point it out to them again

It seems the red supporters here at least on this forum,just dont want to understand the truth of this situation.

Even if the current Government is "legal" in relation with the current Thai Laws: it is a Thai politician mangling which has bring this coalition to Power. The Main party can feel frustrated by those fidlings. obviously the Thais Election rules do not work as they conduct to the current conflict: they have to be rewritten. i repeat: the Spanish situation was exactly the same (1933/1936), we do not want 300,000 deads in a Civil war.

So...STOP, to all players,..... Ball at the center of the playground. An outsider has to take over for a limited period in order to cool down and put in order the situation including a new definition of the rules.

Edited April 29, 2010 by Jerrytheyoung

[animatic]

I think people are going to need to factor in the comments Sondhi just made and which webfact has kindly posted on the news thread via Tulsie.

There have now been several powerful people say very similar things to Sondhi. And however you analyse it the Dems are getting caught in the middle now.

Sondhi's probably right about the Big Picture, but I think that's Abhisit's whole raison d' etre isn't it, to be that transformative PM? I'm not saying he can pull it off, but he represents the political dialogue aspect to this solution. The guns in the street aspect may prove too much for him though.

Abhisit has failed. He cannot represent the dialog: on contrary he is an obstacle to a solution

Only because Thaksin's revenge requires that he be the TARGET #1 of that power grab maneuver.

A coup d'Etat by street violence is aimed at removing the primary leader. It is it's nature.

It is also in the nature of such a primary leadership position to not give in to such illegitimate pressure tactics.

[Jerrytheyoung]

I think people are going to need to factor in the comments Sondhi just made and which webfact has kindly posted on the news thread via Tulsie.

There have now been several powerful people say very similar things to Sondhi. And however you analyse it the Dems are getting caught in the middle now.

Sondhi's probably right about the Big Picture, but I think that's Abhisit's whole raison d' etre isn't it, to be that transformative PM? I'm not saying he can pull it off, but he represents the political dialogue aspect to this solution. The guns in the street aspect may prove too much for him though.

Abhisit has failed. He cannot represent the dialog: on contrary he is an obstacle to a solution

Only because Thaksin's revenge requires that he be the TARGET #1 of that power grab maneuver.

A coup d'Etat by street violence is aimed at removing the primary leader. It is it's nature.

It is also in the nature of such a primary leadership position to not give in to such illegitimate pressure tactics.

Stop your Rhetoric, even Sondhi admits that Thaksin is no more the issue.

Your partisan support to Abhisit is becoming pathetic: I was expecting better from you.

Edited April 29, 2010 by Jerrytheyoung

[animatic]

Sondhi's probably right about the Big Picture, but I think that's Abhisit's whole raison d' etre isn't it, to be that transformative PM? I'm not saying he can pull it off, but he represents the political dialogue aspect to this solution. The guns in the street aspect may prove too much for him though.

Abhisit has failed. He cannot represent the dialog: on contrary he is an obstacle to a solution

So you think extra constitutional parties should cut a deal between each other for however long that may last?

When we are in such a situation, a temporary outsider must be nominated with a limited mandate for managing the situation and rewriting the rules which obviously are not working. A consensus must be obtained on the new rules.

So.... WHO???

The Reds would say Chavalit, Chalerm or the like? ; Opposition to all things incarnate.

And Gov. side; Chuan, Anand, Somtam lady from soi Sarsin. Miss International Katoey 2009?

It on face value is a nice idea, in practical terms it is just as unworkable.

Thaksin would want control of his team and veto power, like his SMS business.

Tej Bunang might be workable, but I doubt he would want the job.

Devakula has the mind for it, but too closely tied to TRT...

Korn equally good except tied the other way.

The short list ain't too long.

Suchinda'd take the job...

[SomTumTiger]

Sanoh begs every 3 months to become the PM. Let him have a crack...lol