Bhikkhu Buddhadasa

[eggomaniac]

In response to rapid social change in Thailand, Bhikkhu Buddhadasa (1906-1993), a leading Thai Buddhist thinker, has interpreted Buddhism not only from a religious point of view but also from a socio-political perspective. After devoting most of his life to reforming Buddhism in Thailand, Buddhadasa found it necessary to address socio-political issues from a Buddhist perspective. In the 1960s, he articulated his socio-political position in terms of “dhammocracy” (dhamma-thipatai): the social and political order should follow the law of Dhamma--the teachings of the Buddha. Later on in the atmosphere of the student led Revolution in Thailand from 1973 to 1976, Buddhadasa presented his unique theory of “dhammic socialism” (dhammika sangkhom-niyom).

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http://www.wfb-hq.org/Letter%20to%20the%20webmaster0005.html

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Somewhere along the way it was suggested by a friend that I study Buddadasa and the above article was found online. It is a bit confusing at first. It's one authors analysis of a critique by another author. [The critique is mostly wild praise, with one small criticism and the analysis is largely a critique, with some small agreement. I have started a Review of the Analysis of the Critique.

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Today I have heard of Bhuddathat Pikkhu. The monk always told politicians that "Drammacracy" (Thamma Thipatai) is our social choice, not democracy, which relies on a majority decision.

I cannot find anything on Bhuddathat on Google, but am guessing Bhuddasasa and Buddhathat are one in the same. Is that true?

[Brucenkhamen]

Yes Buddhathat is the Thai (mis)pronunciation of Buddhadassa because in Thai you can't end a word with a vowel and you change an s sound to a t sound if it is at the end of a word.

If you visit http://www.suanmokkh.org/ you'll be able to find out a lot about him and download some of his books.

[lungmi]

Yes. Buddhadasa Bhikku is the International Pali transcription. Buddhathat Pikkhu the Thai adaption.

[luangtom]

This is a utopian approach to the current situation in Thailand. Neither side exhibits the want or desire to revert to spiritual or dhamma avenues for relief of the crisis. Buddhism may well be the State Religion, but it is not practiced in daily life except to attain the advantage over another. Reflect back and see that PM Abhisit wears a LP Thuat amulet for protection. Former PM Thaksin called upon Black Magic to curse the other side, as did the Red Shirts in the blood-sacrifice ceremonies. So, quotes from Buddhadasa Bhikkhu are not apt to instill peace and goodwill amongst the parties now facing off in the streets. Khamma may well play out in this crisis, if you believe the old teachings.............

[lungmi]

Here you have a link where Tan Buddhadasa explains a lot of things. l

http://www.buddhadasa.com/naturaltruth/kalamasutta1.html

[billzant]

In addition to the Suan Mokh link you can also find Ajaan Buddhadhasa's works on Access to Insight.

If you want to study what Tan Ajaan discussed you can find work from one of his students, Santikharo, at Liberation Park on the website of the same name - liberationpark.org. Santikharo also moderates a Yahoo group dedicated to the teachings of Ajaan Buddhadhasa - he uses the spelling Buddhadasa.

Hope you are keeping well,

All the Best,

Bill Z

[eggomaniac]

This is a Utopian approach to the current situation in Thailand. Neither side exhibits the want or desire to revert to spiritual or dhamma avenues for relief of the crisis. Buddhism may well be the State Religion, but it is not practiced in daily life except to attain the advantage over another. Reflect back and see that PM Abhisit wears a LP Thuat amulet for protection. Former PM Thaksin called upon Black Magic to curse the other side, as did the Red Shirts in the blood-sacrifice ceremonies. So, quotes from Buddhadasa Bhikkhu are not apt to instill peace and goodwill among the parties now facing off in the streets. Khamma may well play out in this crisis, if you believe the old teachings.............

Luang,

I really do agree with most of your Post. I even did a Topic called Divine Comedy, about how it's a shame that in a nation of 95% Buddhists, it's a crying shame to other 5% run the whole show.

I was hoping, though, this Post would not digress into present crisis in the Buddhist sub forum.

As Buddhasasa passed on in 1993, it would be pretty hard to ascribe his concepts as meant for today, unless by prophesy. I would agree that he conjured his very well intentioned, if Utopian, ideals in response to a crisis of lost Buddhist values, but one back in the 60's, not today's.

He had some very, very good religious ideas, which so called Christian nations could also live by.

I concluded the poor man saw that practicing Buddhists were not affective Societally, so he contrived to hope for a government system which would 'hold' society in place, top down, instead of bottom up. He really buried in his message in a bunch of totally inaccurate astronomical and biology 'proofs'.

[For examples, the moon was created by a 'collision', bees make more honey than they ever need and wolverines kill for 'fun'. squirrels never eat all the nuts they store and so on]

I think he should have stayed away from 'science' and stuck to 'theology'. For example this could be expounded on, instead of all that nonsense about start never colliding. >

Quote """Buddhasasa argues that Buddhism, and all world religions for that matter, are essentially socialistic in nature. [A: It is not. It is mainly individual achievement, either alone or within a group; in fact even alone one would be constantly with kilesas until all kilesas has been eliminated, then there is true ‘individuality’, as in an arahant, without the illusion of a self.] """ Ah, the lady in blue, I agreed almost entirely with her Analysis of the Critique, but not on this point. He was talking about the community of the religions, here, not the individual quest.

http://www.wfb-hq.org/Letter%20to%20the%20webmaster0005.html

He talked about all religions here, with no details. Muslims do not allow usury in lending. Christians have the Golden Rule and instructions about sharing wealth. Buddhism considers greed for money to be a 'poison'.

I agree with his summary that if there were enough devout practitioners of all of the religions of the world it would pour over into better societies, socialistic, if you want to call it that.

As that was, and is, quite obviously, not working, [eg. health care in the USA? can you spell civil war?]I doubt it can work in the reverse order either, though some countries do have government systems that work better than others in caring for all of the constituents.

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On an IQ test, most people would ascribe democracy to good and monarchy to bad, though there have been some great Monarchs and some terrible Democracies, [can you spell america?].

[eggomaniac]

Here you have a link where Tan Buddhadasa explains a lot of things. l

http://www.buddhadasa.com/naturaltruth/kalamasutta1.html

Thanks so much for the treasure map!

[Groongthep]

A great deal of Pra Puttatat's (this spelling is seldom used but is much closer to the correct pronunciation of his name than the other spellings) has been translated into English, much of it by Santikharo as mentioned by billzant in post #6. Santikharo was a close student of Pra Puttatat for many years up to and after the great monk's death. He is arguably the most knowledgeable expert on Puttatat's teachings there is today. I believe Santikharo left the monkhood several years ago to more easily start Liberation Park and continue his work teaching the Dharma. I also understand (but don't quote me) that Santikharo had problems with the hierarchal aspects of the Thai Sanga which also influenced him to leave the monkhood. Despite his return to the lay life he has kept his ordained name.

Probably the most influential and widely sold book of Pra Puttatat's teachings is the "Handbook for Mankind". I highly recommend it. It can be found online here:

Handbook for Mankind or if you are like me and prefer actual printed books it can be easily found at any Asia Books Store or through Amazon. "Handbook for Mankind" is an excellent introduction to his teachings and I think if you read this book first much of his other more esoteric teachings will be more easily understood.

[sabaijai]

He is arguably the most knowledgeable expert on Puttatat's teachings there is today.

Santikaro is one of the most knowledgable Western experts but for more in-depth analyses, there are Buddhist studies academics Donald K Swearer and Peter Jackson, for example. Some would argue that Santikaro, as a former monk, carries a personal interpretation of Buddhadasa's teachings, but not necessarily the closest interpretation.

In the Thai sphere there are many who know Ven Buddhadasa's teachings exceedingly well. First and foremost would be Ven Buddhadasa's former vice abbot, Ven Po, who has been the abbot since Buddhadasa's passing in 1993. He is considered the closest heir to the teachings. Among the younger generation, Ven Vutichai Wachiramethi is also heavily influenced by Buddhadasa, extending his teachings to such concepts as Applied Dhamma, Kilesa Management, and so on.

[Groongthep]

He is arguably the most knowledgeable expert on Puttatat's teachings there is today.

Santikaro is one of the most knowledgable Western experts but for more in-depth analyses, there are Buddhist studies academics Donald K Swearer and Peter Jackson, for example. Some would argue that Santikaro, as a former monk, carries a personal interpretation of Buddhadasa's teachings, but not necessarily the closest interpretation.

In the Thai sphere there are many who know Ven Buddhadasa's teachings exceedingly well. First and foremost would be Ven Buddhadasa's former vice abbot, Ven Po, who has been the abbot since Buddhadasa's passing in 1993. He is considered the closest heir to the teachings. Among the younger generation, Ven Vutichai Wachiramethi is also heavily influenced by Buddhadasa, extending his teachings to such concepts as Applied Dhamma, Kilesa Management, and so on.

I concede to your greater knowledge on this subject sabaijai. I was indeed referring to Western experts since my knowledge of written Thai is not good enough to comprehend the depth of ideas expressed in Thai (or Pali) language literature which I would imagine the experts in the Thai sphere would write.

I do own and have read Peter Jackson's biography of Buddhadasa and like it very much but it was, as advertised, an academic biography detailing his life and accomplishments and did not really attempt to explain Buddhadasa's teaching in any depth. He may have written other books that did but if so I have not read any of them.

To be honest, besides "Handbook for Mankind" the greatest amount of material I have read concerning Buddhadasa's teachings are the volumes of different small booklets and pamphlets distributed by the Thai Wats in the US which adhere to his teachings particularly Wat Attamayatarama Click Here for Website near Seattle and the Buddha Dharma Meditation Center near Chicago which I believed has now moved and of course Liberation Park itself Click Here for Link.

I briefly met Santikharo after a talk he gave at Seattle University years ago and must admit that he was rather confident in his interpretations. He struck me as an intelligent and extremely driven individual who was involved in many causes and activities. Being that he did spend many years living with Buddhadasa and was for a long time his personal translator I felt that saying that he was arguably the foremost authority was not too much off the mark. I believe, (but once again please don't hold me to this) that some of the problems he had with the traditional Thai Sangha stemmed from disagreements between him and other monks in the rather large cadre of followers of Buddhadasa. I believe Santikharo felt that his being farang (sorry to those who dislike that word) put him at a disadvantage in what was being officially disseminated from Wat Suan Mok after Buddhadasa's death and this was at least in part one of the reasons he left the monkhood. In fairness to him however one should probably contact him directly via his website and ask before putting any faith in my assumptions.

A very young Pra Santikharo with the Ven Buddhadasa

By the way I still have problems with the almost universal spelling of the Venerable monk's name as Buddhadasa. I know this is the way it has always been spelled and probably the way Pra Puttatat wanted it to be spelled but as has been discussed many times on the Thai Language forum transliteration does not usually do justice to the proper pronunciation of Thai and Pali names. I add this for those who do not read Thai.

[lungmi]

A very interesting article of Phra Phaisan Visalo concerning the actual situation in Thailand in application of the teaching of Tan Buddhadasa.

http://www.visalo.org/englishArticles/BkkPost_RealEnemy.htm

[sabaijai]

A very interesting article of Phra Phaisan Visalo concerning the actual situation in Thailand in application of the teaching of Tan Buddhadasa.

http://www.visalo.org/englishArticles/BkkPost_RealEnemy.htm

Thank you posting that link.

[Brucenkhamen]

By the way I still have problems with the almost universal spelling of the Venerable monk's name as Buddhadasa. I know this is the way it has always been spelled and probably the way Pra Puttatat wanted it to be spelled but as has been discussed many times on the Thai Language forum transliteration does not usually do justice to the proper pronunciation of Thai and Pali names. I add this for those who do not read Thai.

That's because Buddhadasa is not a Thai word, it's a Pali word. Buddhadasa is pretty much the correct pronunciation. Thais are well known for mispronouncing Pali, if you want the correct pronunciation look to Singhalese which is a much closer language to Pali.

[khaowong1]

A very interesting article of Phra Phaisan Visalo concerning the actual situation in Thailand in application of the teaching of Tan Buddhadasa.

http://www.visalo.org/englishArticles/BkkPost_RealEnemy.htm

great article, thank you.

[lungmi]

All in English available articles of Phra Phaisan Visalo, some in cooperation with Santikaro.

http://www.visalo.org/englishArticles/index.htm,

[Groongthep]

By the way I still have problems with the almost universal spelling of the Venerable monk's name as Buddhadasa. I know this is the way it has always been spelled and probably the way Pra Puttatat wanted it to be spelled but as has been discussed many times on the Thai Language forum transliteration does not usually do justice to the proper pronunciation of Thai and Pali names. I add this for those who do not read Thai.

That's because Buddhadasa is not a Thai word, it's a Pali word. Buddhadasa is pretty much the correct pronunciation. Thais are well known for mispronouncing Pali, if you want the correct pronunciation look to Singhalese which is a much closer language to Pali.

Bruce, respectfully, I'm quite aware that Buddhadasa is a Pali word as are all ordained names. In Thai however the name Buddhadasa is spelled พุทธทาส which is why nearly all Thais who are familiar with Buddhadasa pronounce the name something like พุท-ทา-ทาท or Puttatat (u as in boot but shorter) as I have chosen to use. I don't claim my spelling to be correct but it will help prevent non Thais from saying Buddha-dasa (dasa as in the Spanish word for house "casa") which will not be understood by any Thai, even those who have studied Pali because "Puttatat" พุท-ทา-ทาท is the common pronunciation used by just about everyone be it right or wrong. As you know, monks in Thailand must study Pali and pass different levels of proficiency in it in order to move up in the hierarchy of the Thai Sangha but even most of these monks will pronounce "Buddhadasa" as Puttatat (พุท-ทา-ทาท). Some Thais who have worked with a lot of foreigners may understand Buddha-dasa though from hearing foreigners mispronouncing it so often.

The spelling Buddhathat is not very accurate either, as expanding on your explaination in post #2, พ is equivalent to the sound p and both ท and ธ are equivalent to t.

This kind of pointless back and forth goes on all the time on the Thai Language forum. Don't dare start the argument over there that ก should be transcribed with a g rather than a k or some of those guys will have a cow. So please forgive me if I am being rather anal and taking this pronunciation explanation to an extreme.

Regardless of all the above, the only point I was trying to make is that พุท-ทา-ทาท is the common pronunciation of Buddhadasa in Thai and that in my opininion Puttatat renders that sound in English better than most translations or translterations, but I know that there is no right or wrong to this argument.

[Brucenkhamen]

Regardless of all the above, the only point I was trying to make is that พุท-ทา-ทาท is the common pronunciation of Buddhadasa in Thai and that in my opininion Puttatat renders that sound in English better than most translations or translterations, but I know that there is no right or wrong to this argument.

Thais pronounce his name Putthathat for the same reason that they pronounce my name Brut. People pronounce foreign words how they would see them written in their own script, I think foreign speakers of Thai do it all the time too. As soon as your write a thai word in english script you lose reference to the correct pronunciation.

In Thai no words end in a vowel, whereas in Pali most words end in a vowel. In Thai many letters change if at the end of the word, like the sor seua at the end of Buddhadasa and at the end of Bruce.

Burmese and Sri lankans have much less trouble pronouncing Pali correctly, as do westerners.

If I'm talking to a Thai I don't mind using their pronunciation of Pali words if to better get the message across.

[Groongthep]

Thais pronounce his name Putthathat for the same reason that they pronounce my name Brut. People pronounce foreign words how they would see them written in their own script, I think foreign speakers of Thai do it all the time too. As soon as your write a thai word in english script you lose reference to the correct pronunciation.

If I'm talking to a Thai I don't mind using their pronunciation of Pali words if to better get the message across.

I agree.

[Brucenkhamen]

"In Thai no words end in a vowel......."

???? I know lots of them that do.

-- Groongthep

Yes you're right, sorry, I was thinking specifically of Thai words sourced from Pali.

There are a lot of important Pali words that they drop the end vowel, looking at the Buddhist glossary it's mostly those ending with a short "a" sound. See examples below. Anyone know why Thais do this?

kilesa กิเลส kilet

dukkha ทุกข์ took

nibbana นิพพาน nípphaan

kamma กรรม gum

Buddha ?? put

acariya อาจารย์ ajahn

samanera สามเณร sama-naen

sila ศีล seen

Theravada เถรวาท tera-waad

dasa ทาส dat

[Samuian]

I agree!

Let those terrible selfish generals, with all their soldiers and opponents from the "amitya" all bow down,

roll the red carpet of eternal forgiveness out and welcome the master and his accomplices back home!

After all he is only a human being - a little misled by power and money games maybe - give him a genuine chance and utter once more out loud:

"MAI MEE PEN HA!"

come to the temple, come, come to the golden temple, you'll be forgiven for eternity -

don't forget the donation!

(genuinely sorry, this post is NOT meant to offend, but to open the incredible controversy about

wrongdoing, the law and forgiveness and the misuse/abuse of the term of ahimsa!

If there is absolute forgiveness and not one wrong - all prisons on the planet must be opened, all laws

abandoned and police, judges, lawmakers send into eternal retirement!)

...and I do not simply agree without any critical view regarding the ever changing influence of time,

just because there is some written information by a venerable but gone soul - again sorry!

This reflects MY very PERSONAL view of the thoughts expressed here in this post and the posted articel from the bkkpost!

There is wrong and right, as there is day and night, with forgiveness nothing will be mended!

None - ahimsa needs to be observed by ALL parties, ALL if not, the "game is called off" -

cause one side will certainly take advantage of this situation!

Play with the rulez - this is the motto for EVERYONE concerned/involved!

wait and see - why "they" defrocked the ven.Bikku - anyone?

In the same article posted in the bkk post: one finds this:

It reminds us not to believe something just because ‘‘we hear it from others, because it is logical, because it agrees with our ideas, because it is plausible, or because the speaker is our teacher [or credible]’’. If it is the case, don’t conclude that what you have heard or what you have been informed, including the opinions based on those information, are wholly correct.

....like the Buddha preached: be always critical, even about my teachings!

In the world of phenomena, the empirical world, there is much shuffling going on and

one has to be highly aware, fully focused on what is reality, "truth" there are many, uncountable

"truths", some manufactured, some gilded over, sugar coated and otherwise camouflaged - just BEWARE!

There IS wrong and right - if there wasn't the universe wouldn't need "teachings of a buddha"

agreed?

this "problem" is entirely manufactured and made look alike - to serve the wants of ONE single person and a circle of very close aides and associates!

[Groongthep]

Call me thick, but your post has me completely baffled Samuian.

[camerata]

Call me thick, but your post has me completely baffled Samuian.

Me too. Almost looks like he posted in the wrong topic.

[Samuian]

Call me thick, but your post has me completely baffled Samuian.

Me too. Almost looks like he posted in the wrong topic.

refered to #4.... the posted Bkk post article and the current situation in this country,

where not only this man's teaching is held in high esteem, but to what avail?!

I read much of Buddhadasa's writing's, in my opinion some are spot on, some are simply outdated...time is moving on...!

It didn't escape me that there was a discussion about the spelling of Buddhadasa's name ... and the surrounding controversies,

but then "Tesco/Lotus" (f.E) is also spelled and spoken in a very Thai-way which doesn't make it right.

Just wanted to point to the core of the teaching of these certainly wise people, who are well known throughout the country and the reality!

[camerata]

refered to #4.... the posted Bkk post article and the current situation in this country,

where not only this man's teaching is held in high esteem, but to what avail?!

Weren't Ven Buddhadasa's teachings mainly taken up by the middle classes? I bet the red shirts wouldn't have a clue what he taught.

[sabaijai]

A note on the transliteration issue: 'Buddhadasa' was Tan Ajahn Buddhadasa's preferred Romanisation of his Pali name.