Pm: Bring English Teachers From South Asia

[george]

PM: Bring English teachers from South Asia

BANGKOK: -- Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra said he was concerned about the quality of English teachers in Thailand and suggested more teachers from India, Bhutan and Sri Lanka be hired to teach the language in Thai schools.

Government spokesman Chalermdej Jombunud said Mr Thaksin felt English teaching was often ``boring'' and some Thai teachers may not speak the language well enough.

Mr Thaksin suggested the Education Ministry solve the shortage of qualified English teachers by employing teachers from South Asia to teach English and mathematics.

He said their salaries were also lower than native speakers from the West which made them more affordable for schools.

Mr Thaksin said English was now important in the globalisation era and was a tool of communication in cyberspace.

--Bangkok Post 2005-06-08

[Oleg_Rus]

well, dah! origial "native" teachers ARE more expensive. Sounds like true revelation.

one gentleman lives in our condo - english teacher - real native - I think too native to understand, but it is real english and it's my problem I don't get half of what he sais.

on another side, there are lotsa southern asian ppl around Silom area - I understand 100% of what they say, but for **** sake! what kind of language is it ?

not even a touch of real one.

So, who wants his kid talk like mumbay's riksha and pay for it ?!

It has to be only native, no subs at all.

[Rumpole]

The problem is not solely with dialect or accent. I have worked with large numbers of teachers from South Asia, and their methodology is often not so very dissimilar to that currently employed by the Thais; i.e. teacher-centric with an emphasis on rote-learning. There can be no denying that the Sub-Continent generally has pretty good educational standards, but I think this is due in no small measure to the attitudes and work ethics of the populations of those countries. People there have a high regard for education and take responsibility for their own learning. These are not traits for which Thai students are particularly celebrated.

I feel that this latest pronouncement by the Reich Fuehrer is simply one more attempt to take a side-swipe at Westerners living and working in Thailand, and further feed the feelings of insecurity and paranoia on which he so obviously thrives. Note the fact that he wishes to employ South Asian teachers mainly because they are CHEAP. A typically short-sighted Thai “solution” and, IMHO, one of the principal causes of the malaise which afflicts the Thai education system as a whole.

Of course, this is simply one more pie-in-the-sky scheme which will never actually come to pass; not least because of the innate racism of most Thais towards other Asians and non-whites in general. Thai school owners and administrators would usually choose to employ uneducated trash, as long as it has a white face, will work for peanuts and doesn’t make too many waves, over an Indian with graduate degrees in education and several years teaching experience.

Edited June 8, 2005 by Rumpole

[Bluffer]

You might be right about it being a swipe at farang teachers but I dont know. I dont think he does either

He is sending out a really mixed message when he talks about Thai teachers finding the subject boring and not being good enough but then says the Indians are cheaper than farang.

Maybe he is just a failed teacher and hates all us us!

[george]

TNA follow-up:

PM calls for hiring of Indian, Bhutanese teachers

BANGKOK: -- The Ministry of Education should consider hiring English language teachers from India, Bhutan and Sri Lanka in order to help bring down staffing costs, Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra said yesterday.

The prime minister, who visited India and Bhutan last week, praised Bhutan for the importance with which it regarded English language tuition, while noting that many Thai children still suffered from poor English skills.

“The prime minister suggested that we hire English teachers from India, Bhutan and Sri Lanka, as they are cheaper to hire than teachers from elsewhere”, Government Spokesman Chalermdej Jombunud told reporters.

--TNA 2005-06-08

[Oleg_Rus]

...not least because of the innate racism of most Thais towards other Asians and non-whites in general. Thai school owners and administrators would usually choose to employ uneducated trash, as long as it has a white face, will work for peanuts and doesn’t make too many waves, over an Indian with graduate degrees in education and several years teaching experience.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

True, true...

20y.o. backpacker in school gets twice of what teachers with 10 years experience get.

[PeaceBlondie]

True, true...

20y.o. backpacker in school gets twice of what teachers with 10 years experience get.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not necessarily, and it's totally, completely, absolutely irrelevant what a native speaker makes compared to a Thai national.

Ask Thai govt. teachers what they make. The ones I asked, with 20 to 30 years, were making 19, 26, and 30K. Pensions, decent medical insurance, low interest loans, discounts, etc. And they know the system well enough to live cheaply.

The unwashed unqualified White-skinned 20-y.o. backpacker gets 20 to 25K, doesn't speak Thai or get discounts, no medical, no pension, no benefits.

Doesn't matter. The backpacker (which is not typical anyway) is no standard of comparison. An over-25 Caucasian native speaker with an actual authentic BA and a TEFL is far more qualified than the stereotypical backpacker, and speaks English better than the average Thai teacher of English.

What Thaksin is proposing (off the top of his head, without thinking it through, apparently) is that since many Thai schools can't even afford an unwashed backpacker with a fake KSR degree, they should get Bhutanese. Average per capita income in Bhutan: US$1,300 in year 2002. Labor force: 93% agricultural, Population: 2,100,000. Literacy rate: 42% Life expectancy, 53 years.

Is Mr. Thaksin smoking non-tobacco cigarettes lately?

[kenkannif]

Busy old time for the MoE what with recruiting 10,000 native speaking teachers (with degrees) and now recruiting loads of non-native speakers....I wonder if the MoE will also check their English ability as I've met many a Filipino/Indian with a teaching qualification (BEd etc) that would be pretty incomprehensible (verbally) to most Thais! The problem is the level of English is (generally) such (at the MoE) that they'd not be able to ascertain whether the applicants English is good enough to be able to teach it.

Edited June 9, 2005 by kenkannif

[Rumpole]

Busy old time for the MoE what with recruiting 10,000 native speaking teachers (with degrees) and now recruiting loads of non-native speakers

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not to mention the thousands of retired Western teachers who were supposedly going to be queuing up for the dubious privilege of spending their hard-earned retirement in some ghastly sweatshop of a school in Nakhon Nowhere.

No, let's not mention them.

Edited June 9, 2005 by Rumpole

[PeaceBlondie]

Laughing out loud at the concept mentioned by kenkaniff, that even officials at the Ministry of Education don't speak English well enough to interview a candidate to test the candidate's speech. Arai nah? Cahn yuuw repeat thaht pa-leze?

[awarrumbungle]

Forgetting the colour of their skin.

Maybe Thailand doesn't have the money to attract the quality native English speakers. They can't compete with Japan, China etc. So in this light, Thaksin maybe onto something. With this tactic he might not be getting the native accent, but he'll at least be filling the teaching vacancies.

By this I am agreeing with you on the low level of Thai teacher's English. But IF these other English teacher's are any better at all, it's better having someone in the classrooms then anyone at all.

Edited June 9, 2005 by awarrumbungle

[Rumpole]

^ Can you explain to me why you think Thailand can't compete with China?

[kenkannif]

Laughing out loud at the concept mentioned by kenkaniff, that even officials at the Ministry of Education don't speak English well enough to interview a candidate to test the candidate's speech.  Arai nah?  Cahn yuuw repeat thaht pa-leze?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not kidding either.

When I went there to get my TL (4 years or so ago) I went with a Swedish teacher who spoke perfect English (probably better than mine in many ways). The lady there kept asking him WHY he could speak such good English. Was it 'cos he'd been educated in the States or UK? No, he replied. Did he go to an English speaking school in Sweden? No, he replied. She was like, but I have to tell my boss WHY you can speak such good English. This makes no sense to me it shouldn't matter why, just that he can. But as their English skills are so limited they can't make a judgement call like that (although in this case my mate was okay). I've also heard from the MoE (ages ago) that a German/Dutchman/Swede that lived in the UK or States would find it easier to get a TL than one that hadn't.....regardless of actual ability to speak the language.

Gotta love it sometimes!

[amal2029]

well, dah! origial "native" teachers ARE more expensive. Sounds like true revelation.

one gentleman lives in our condo - english teacher - real native - I think too native to understand, but it is real english and it's my problem I don't get half of what he sais.

on another side, there are lotsa southern asian ppl around Silom area - I understand 100% of what they say, but for **** sake! what kind of language is it ?

not even a touch of real one.

So, who wants his kid talk like mumbay's riksha and pay for it ?!

It has to be only native, no subs at all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What was the language that southern Asian ppl using? If its not ENGLISH how did u understand them 100%? It looks like u white folks are bit of shaken of loosing your superiority over English teaching

At least Thai students can now learn that “Meiya Noi” is not “miner wife” (as some white skin English teachers teach them) but "mistress"!

[pedro01]

I say the Philipinos would be best - not sure about Indians - there accent can be a tad strong.

For sure an educated Philipino with a teaching degree would be a lot cheaper than a similar brit & I think the quality would be just as good.

[kenkannif]

I think it does kind of stand for minor wife doesn't it?

I don't think any of us are shaken, rather we're saying what a bad idea it is and the chances of it working are slim. I personally wouldn't work for 'Asian' wages and neither will many other native speaking teachers. So it will (if it happens) have pretty much zero effect on us (other than to show a native speakers standard of English is generally far superior to most Asian 'native speakers' as the Indians and Filipinos like to think of themselves as).

[mijan24]

A message for the Majority Leader - Why bother using the right word!![/B]

Using the right word at the right time is rather like wearing appropriate clothing for the occaison: it is a courtesy to others, and a favour to yourself - a matter of presenting yourself well in the eyes of the world.

Just as dressing appropriately can help you fell more confident and to act more effectively, so speaking and writing appropriately can help you reach clearer decisions and persuade others to agree with you, Sloppy language makes for muddled thinking.

The English language....becomes ugly and inaccurate because our thoughts are foolish, but the slovenliness of our language makes it easier for us to have foolish thoughts.

-George Orwell,

'Politics and the English Language'

[kuwaittemp]

[

At least Thai students can now learn that “Meiya Noi” is not “miner wife” (as some white skin English teachers teach them) but "mistress"!

And why in the #$#%^ are the white skinned types teaching Thai students the meaning of Thai expressions?????

(Not that a reply is really needed--- this is just one of those ridiculous things that happens and causes me to react quickly)

[kenkannif]

^ Yeah good point, I'd not thought of that!

Then it becomes transliteration (I think).

[richard10365]

Perhaps the PM and the others in Thailand are tired of the farang English Teachers who think because they are farang they are better than Thai people.

I have seen many farangs with their nose held high complaining about every little thing Thai people seem to do.

Perhaps, their non-humble attitudes and their low work ethics have bothered the PM and others to the point of hiring others from Asia to teach.

I am sure there are good farang English teachers out there and their schools will keep them.

For the bad English teachers, you had better start reading the section of this forum on how to do a 90 day TOURIST visa run.

It might not be a bad idea to have an organization for farang teachers to teach about Thai values and work ethics. It can also remind the farangs how lucky they are to live and teach in Thailand.

I am sure there are Thai teachers who are not too skilled, but they don't need a work permit to stay in the country.

[The Dan Sai Kid]

With all due respect to Thai teachers, it is much harder to get a degree in some western coutries than it is in Thailand. I remember reading an article in the Bangkok Post a couple of years back that put a Thai degree at the equivelant of GCSE level.

I'm not saying that farang teachers are worth as much as 10 times more than Thai teachers as I think many Thai teachers are forced to teach the way they do due to the demands of the curriculum and also the constant testing.

As for South Asian English teachers, obviously Khun Taksin has never had one of these english graduate calling to try and sell him something over the phone.

It's very easy to blame teachers for any inablity to speak english, but who gives these mickey mouse language school permission to operate anyway?

[mbkudu]

One fortunate aspect of human nature is that we quickly forget what politicians

say (especially Thai politicians).

Edited June 11, 2005 by mbkudu

[kenkannif]

Perhaps the PM and the others in Thailand are tired of the farang English Teachers who think because they are farang they are better than Thai people.

Well native speakers tend to be better at English than Thais are.

I have seen many farangs with their nose held high complaining about every little thing Thai people seem to do.

Can't speak for all farangs, but for sure us Brits love to moan about every little thing other Brits do.

Perhaps, their non-humble attitudes and their low work ethics have bothered the PM and others to the point of hiring others from Asia to teach.

Yeah like saying they need 10,000 more of us

I am sure there are good farang English teachers out there and their schools will keep them.

Problem is it's often hard to tell who are the good teachers.

For the bad English teachers, you had better start reading the section of this forum on how to do a 90 day TOURIST visa run.

I think maybe you had as there's no such thing

It might not be a bad idea to have an organization for farang teachers to teach about Thai values and work ethics. It can also remind the farangs how lucky they are to live and teach in Thailand.

I think they are supposed to have a Thai cultural course as part of their TEFL...but a lot don't!

I am sure there are Thai teachers who are not too skilled, but they don't need a work permit to stay in the country.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's not that they're not skilled it's just the majority can't speak English to a reasonable level.

Edited June 12, 2005 by kenkannif

[Rumpole]

I am sure there are good farang English teachers out there and their schools will keep them.

Problem is it's often hard to tell who are the good teachers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And most Thai schools would not recognise a good teacher if he or she jumped up and bit them in the derrière.

[Ajarn]

I am sure there are good farang English teachers out there and their schools will keep them.

Problem is it's often hard to tell who are the good teachers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And most Thai schools would not recognise a good teacher if he or she jumped up and bit them in the derrière.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Completely agree. I can't even think of one example, in my experiences, that disagrees.

[otherstuff1957]

[

At least Thai students can now learn that “Meiya Noi” is not “miner wife” (as some white skin English teachers teach them) but "mistress"! 

  And why in the #$#%^ are the white skinned types teaching Thai students the meaning of Thai expressions?????

  (Not that a reply is really needed--- this is just  one of those ridiculous things that happens and causes me to react quickly)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, I don't think most Mia Nois would make good miners at all! Although some of them ARE golddiggers.

[Buff-horns]

the situation is pretty desperate around LOS so even if they brought in people from the sub-continent to teach english would it make much of an impact ? Things are so bad anything can only help .

Edited by Scouse - pejorative term removed.

[Rumpole]

I think that the situation is pretty desperate because the word is out that Thailand is such a dreadful place in which to teach. Even the "teach-'n'-travel-with-my-2-week-certificate" brigade are beginning to realize that they can get better treatment and conditions almost anywhere else in Asia. The only people coming to Thailand are those who really want to be there.

Som num nah.

Edited June 18, 2005 by Rumpole

[johnh101]

Some years ago my daughter was at primary school in Dubai, and I had heard my ex-wife moaning about and influx of "Asian" eachers to the school as a cost saving means.

A few weeks later my daughter was sitting at the breakfast table rattling her head from side to side saying "what to do?" and "I am not knowing". She changed school very shortly thereafter.

[Scott]

I am not opposed to bringing qualified people from anywhere to teach. I have a hard time believing it really fits in with what they want to achieve, however, to have a lot of South Asian English Teachers.

From my experience, some of the problems are:

1. The Thai administration decides what you teach, how you should teach it and who you should teach it to. They can really get into hyper-critical mode.

2. Many schools have unbelievable noise levels, making it difficult for students to hear/understand what is said.

3. Schools decide that (white) teachers have to be "out-in-front" greeting parents etc. Lots of crap things to do that really detract from a heavy teaching load.

4. Poor support, poor materials etc. Photocopies can be a hassle, books can be a problem etc.

5. Poor benefits, inconsistencies etc. Some schools will say they will give certain benefits and then just change their mind.

In short, S.Asian people can be better controlled. A lot of western teachers will walk/threaten to walk/create a problem. A lot of S. Asian's won't