PM Abhisit Announces Next Election Will Be Held On Nov 14

[rossigee]

The Government are playing a fantastic strategy here. First the offer new ID cards and a free ride home to the ones that want to leave the protest. Then they announce a very reasonable compromise in the road map. The majority of red shirts will accept this as a victory. The hard liners will not. The numbers drastically reduce and the women and children leave.

The door is wide open to use force to arrest the hard liners. Good plan by the Government in my opinion. The reds and Thaksin have once again been out flanked by the Government. Abhisit will come out of this, smelling of roses and the red leaders will be seen by the world for what they are. Thaksin's mercenaries.

Cheers, Rick

Hate to be another 'me too', but Rick's summed it up for me. Hats off to Abhisit.

Abhisit seems to be doing a dam_n fine job, balancing volatile issues under the most exceptional circumstances. I'm impressed that, even when *everyone* (me included) wanted him to send the army in, he refrained and stuck to the moral and legal options available to him. His aim ultimately to prevent bloodshed, disperse the crowd peacefully and try to salvage as much international credibility as possible for Thailand, which given a few recent issues on human rights, needed to be kept in mind.

Expats who have been paying attention will know we're talking about a bunch of hired thugs (with guns), surrounding themselves with a human shield of hired 'hostages' to prevent dispersal. We're not talking about peaceful protestors taking a day or two out to wave banners, make a point and go home - we know it's not another Tiannaman, but there are elements of the rest of the world who don't know enough about the whole issue who might easily sympathise with the reds, seeing them as a largely peaceful democratic protest with perhaps a handful of particularly emotional/impulsive/violent members causing it to get a little out of hand. They would have been horrified if the army had to roll in and shed blood to remove them. Abhisit's skillfully using every last tactic he can to disperse them peacefully and retain (regain!) some international credit for Thailand in that respect. Thaksin would have Abhisit kill more Thais and have him put Thailand's human rights reputation at risk yet again - for the chance of what, fresh elections?! Luckily, it appears that will no longer be necessary, so very well played to Abhisit for outmaneuvering Thaksin. Thaksin's increasingly desperate attempts to put Abhisit 'in check' have been calmly and successfully blocked for now (I think).

Now I just hope Abhisit uses this upcoming window of opportunity before the next elections (whenever they may be) to focus on and listen to the north and rural Isaan, and demonstrate what real improvements a decent politician can make for them if allowed to. We all know the outcome will be should we get to elections and opinions and alliances haven't really changed up there. As good as he is, politics will never truly work in Thailand while more than half of rural Thailand still see politics as a waste of time and their vote as having 'sale value' (for short-term benefit). If that remains to be the case, Thaksin'll just write the necessary cheque and be on the next flight home to take receipt of his new purchase. He's not broke yet. No doubt he'll then work towards 'checkmate', and we all know what chess piece that involves.

Ultimately, it's all about the money and the power, and those who want to control it. The right thing to do with it is what Abhisit's government are doing with it - such as putting it into projects of public interest, such as much-needed road repairs (Thai Khem Khaeng) that are getting rolled out now. Things that lower, not raise, the daily living costs of your average Thai and make real differences. For example, fixing up the major roads outside of Bangkok should have been done years ago. Maintaining the transport infrastructure didn't appear to be very high on Thaksin's list of priorities, but it's a necessary and important maintenance job for a competent government, of clear and direct benefit to all Thais. Doing it well will reap numerous knock-on benefits and cost savings for your average Thai, and they will in turn be grateful and keep you in power (the right way!). My point is that with Thaksin's government, I heard lots of daft, short-sighted 'get-rich-quick' schemes, such as the plan to open a casino, and the failed bid to attract 'rich' tourists with over-priced visa incentives, or changes to regulations in the telecommunications industry (!) and his populist healthcare policy which while not a bad idea is probably financially unviable (*). None of the policies I saw, in the long run, were ever directly aimed at significantly improving the lives or reducing the living costs or hardships of your average Thai! Almost all could somehow be linked back to him making a profit. He's a businessman. He's not a politician interested in the long-term good of the country. On the other hand, Abhisit seems to be a true politican, able to negotiate reasonable compromises even in such volatile circumstances as those of the last few weeks, even willing to sacrifice his job (if it would really have helped - I think he would have). Perhaps he can apply such diplomacy elsewhere to calm other situations (e.g. the south) which the more hot-headed, iron-fisted politicians would only ignite (as Thaksin did during his reign!).

It's clear to see that Thailand will only suffer if Thaksin, or his proxies, or any other greedy, self-interested politicians like him are allowed (constitutionally) to wangle their way back into power. However, as clear cut as it seems to be, there are still some farang on this forum that appear to support him, and I can't believe it. If I had a vote here, I'd be wanting some more Thai Khem Khaeng action above perpetuation of all the crap and bullshit that has gone on since I've been here (~10yrs). Still, I guess it takes all sorts!

(*) 60million people at 20baht each isn't exactly a big pot to p*** in, especially if they only have to pay it once each! Doctors, equipment and medicines all cost money on a daily basis. I wouldn't think Thailand collects a large enough percentage of it's full tax potential to make supporting that that viable (long-term, without compromising other budgets). I might be wrong. Khun Abhisit, give me a call if you want some fresh ideas on that front

Oh, and glad to see Gordon Brown is finally on his way out Another inept, self-interested, power-hungry politician that should never have been been allowed to waste so much of a country's time and money. Like Thaksin, his legacy of mis-management has left serious national instabilities that will likely ensue for a long while time to come (more political for Thailand and more financial for UK). Unfortunately, the UK doesn't have an Abhisit as such. The best we've got to dig us out of the s*** will be Cameron or Clegg. Hmmm, think I'll pass.

Blimey, I have gone and got carried away, haven't I!? Sorry for the rant And thanks for letting me get it off my chest here! I feel better for that (TV therapy).

[jcbangkok]

.... The protestors, as my Bangkok born wife has said, don't even look like Thais. I admit this attitude has led to the poverty in Isaan, but I believe it to be a reality for most Thais. ....

Happy to employ them at a pittance though; happy to have them wai and kow-tow to their 'betters'; happy to have them sweep the streets; drive the taxis; serve in the army; work in the factories; grow the food - but wait - THEY DON'T EVEN LOOK LIKE THAIS!

It's attitudes like your wife's that caused this problem in the first place. I'm just pointing this out - so in the event that Abhisit fails in his efforts at national reconciliation and they come looking to hang your family from a lampost - you'll know who to blame!

"they come looking to hang your family from a lampost"

Is that what you're expecting from a red win?

RED DEMOCRACY AT WORK

We'd better hope not - because the people who don't even look like Thais have won the last two elections. But the 'let them eat cake' attitude of the Bangkok so called 'elite' (who in my experience have the general education of the average 4th former) has an unfortunate historical track record. If the country goes to hel_l in a handbasket and them with it - then they can't say they weren't forewarned. Oh but wait - I forgot - they don't know any history....

Lets try not to get off topic here but sadly it isn't that they look Thai, it can be said they look to Thai and not enough European. And yes, this is something Thailand needs to and is starting to outgrow. Darker skinned people have throughout history been looked down upon. Only a guess but I assume the ruling class had evolved to having lighter skin because they developed societies that afforded them to not work all day in the sun and therefore no longer needed the dark skin.

The sad truth of the matter is that many darker people in many societies have had to work harder to get ahead. However, when they have and have succeeded in doing so, the negative perception is eroded. One only needs to look at the US and how far it has come over the last 1/2 century or even last couple of decades. Bottom line, this is not something that can be addressed quickly and will take time ... at least a generation. Even the die hard bigots in the US needed to die off before real perception changed. Some people are just not capable of being re-educated when they have grown up with these strong beliefs.

[whybother]

Now I know why the red supporters are worried about delays by Abhisit. They are very good at delaying themselves. Thaksin must be flying somewhere and unavailable until later.

@RichardBarrow: Redshirts leaders will announce their reaction to the "Abhisit roadmap" @ 1pm 2day /via @RedPhanFa2Day

ThaivisaNews: Suporn, UDD: Red-Shirts to reveal group's stance on PM's reconciliation plan before noon; if agree, will send Veera to negotiate

@RichardBarrow: Senate Speaker, coalition partners and academics back the national reconciliation plan unveiled last night by PM Abhisit /BkkPost

MCOT: Red Shirts say no conclusion on PM road map for reconciliation, waiting to see reaction from coalition parties, Democrat, to discuss again this evening

THE NATION: It is confirmed that now we will have to wait until this evening to hear from redshirts leader. via@jin_nation, @terryfrd

Edited May 4, 2010 by whybother

[pornsasi]

Can't see the red leaders getting Amnesty the PM has been firm on this he wants people charged and investigations to continue.

I think Abhisit is the one that will be looking for amnesty. Remember the Democrats face dissolution and by the time the next election comes in November, Abhisit will likely be banned from politics for 5 years for election fraud.

He did not commit election fraud it is alleged the democrat party did,and to date that is only an allegation, you armchair politicians are a joke.

Not to mention that the Election Commission acted after being invaded by Arisman's crew, and threatened if they didn't.

Read : Decision made under duress.

It is only a EC recommendation and not a formal charge is laid at this point.

And also remember like PPP and TRT only the party name and some leadership is ever dissolved,

IF it is 'proved in court' that LEADERSHIP knew, acted and condoned the crime.

A 'New Democrats' will be put in place and things will move on. Any MP's elected under that Democrat banner,

will ALSO be legit and in Parliament with full voting rights, under a different banner or no specific banner.

And those individuals regardless of banner can still form a coalition with any other minor party and

overwhelm a PTP minority party that gets too few partners PTP's ONLY HOPE is to win more than 50%

nationally, and with the Red malfeasances of late that will be much harder to do.

Agree . Beeing with yellows or reds (with or without Thaksin) or green (military junta) , courts acting under

duress seems a like a pattern in thai politics .

[Mosha]

"Thaksin was born fairly poor"

Maybe you should do a bit of research into Thaksin's "poor" family.

... and according to Thaksin's words, his father sold coffee at the road corners. Still, I haven't gotten any answer to my question. "Was there any coffee around that time, or what else was it?"

You rarely get answers from red supporters.

They must have had a trade monopoly even then. In 1960 the total Thai output was about 750 tons

http://www.123lanla.com/lanlacoffee/histor...ee-in-thailand/

[agord]

This sounds very nice and finally unlock the situation. Also it makes really govt look like the good guys willing to compromise while the other side... Reds would be crazy to refuse after the bad days they had. However, with terrorists charges threatening and no mention of amnesty in his 5 points program, they might ask to have amnesty added as a number 6 prior to give in.

Where's the compromise?

This sounds just government BS "we're here to help you"

Abhisit is going to have to get real and act like a real leader!

Absurd! The man has done everything but stand on his head to make this work without violence and with composure and restraint (some would say too much restraint)

[Arkady]

Amnesty would have to be accompanied by decommissioning of weapons as the IRA agreed to do. Even though those with money and connections could easily acquire new weapons, at least make the black shirt thugs surrender their weapons. Otherwise, they will use them for banditry when the daily wages from Dubai stop flowing. At any rate those directly involved in acts of terror should not have amnesty.

The protest is not about haves versus have nots. It is a demonstration of the raw power of money that can buy anything in this corrupt and lawless country.

[lounger]

Sorry ... who "won" the last election?

I'll ignore the previous election, which was invalidated (before the coup).

Who won any election? In rural thailand, where I live, the most corrupt wins. So the November election is going to be massively expensive and then they the elected will be scooping their money back from the new pot intended as funding for the less well off. In the last local election my wife was offered 500 baht and 1000baht......

no, elections are not the answer. whoever is in charge needs to drive against corruption and that includes the drug dealers the military and the police.....having an acceptable international profile will help too.

[ChiangMaiFun]

The point is that Thailand is desperate for an honest, evolved leader - who can unite the country.

What is it you think is going on here? Open your eyes man!

you honestly think Abhisit is THAT man?

Please provide your recommendation. And while you are at it, a draft copy of the Red Election Platform for everyone to study.

Don't be a fool - I have said consistently he/she doesn’t exist currently – please read my posts more carefully

[chilliman]

Finally some light in the tunnel.........could be a train though

[timekeeper]

Now I know why the red supporters are worried about delays by Abhisit. They are very good at delaying themselves. Thaksin must be flying somewhere and unavailable until later.

@RichardBarrow: Redshirts leaders will announce their reaction to the "Abhisit roadmap" @ 1pm 2day /via @RedPhanFa2Day

ThaivisaNews: Suporn, UDD: Red-Shirts to reveal group's stance on PM's reconciliation plan before noon; if agree, will send Veera to negotiate

@RichardBarrow: Senate Speaker, coalition partners and academics back the national reconciliation plan unveiled last night by PM Abhisit /BkkPost

MCOT: Red Shirts say no conclusion on PM road map for reconciliation, waiting to see reaction from coalition parties, Democrat, to discuss again this evening

THE NATION: It is confirmed that now we will have to wait until this evening to hear from redshirts leader. via@jin_nation, @terryfrd

the red shirt leaders are trying to find a Ouija board and a good spiritualist so they can get Thaksins thoughts...........

[gl9999]

From Wikipedia:

Thaksin was born in San Kamphaeng, Chiang Mai province. He lived in the village of San Kamphaeng until he was 15, then moved to Chiang Mai city to study at Montfort College. At 16, he helped run one of his father's cinemas.[28]

Thaksin's great-great-grandfather Seng Sae Khu was a Hakka Chinese immigrant from Meizhou, Guangdong who arrived in Siam in the 1860s and settled in Chiang Mai in 1908. His eldest son, Chiang Sae Khu, was born in 1890 and married a Thai woman, Saeng Somna. Chiang's eldest son, Sak, adopted the Thai surname Shinawatra ("does good routinely") in 1938, and the rest of the family followed suit.

Thaksin's father, Lert, was born in Chiang Mai in 1919 and married Yindi Ramingwong (Daughter of Princess Jantip Na-Chiang Mai). In 1968, Lert Shinawatra entered politics and became an MP for Chiang Mai.

Seng Sae Khu made his fortune through tax farming. The Khu/Shinawatra family later founded Shinawatra Silks and then moved into finance, construction and property development. Lert Shinawatra opened a coffee shop and several businesses, and grew oranges and flowers in Chiang Mai's San Kamphaeng district. By the time Thaksin was born, the extended Shinawatra family was one of the richest and most influential in Chiang Mai.

Thaksin was definitely one of the poor unwashed masses!

[Mekhong]

Really?

Maybe sometime he make an effort to forget what he said, even though the RED reminds him every single day, even during the live telecast debate.

Can you please tell me what he said? Sorry, I don't understand much Thai.

He is basically talking about what democracy is, and the responsibilites of a democratically elected government and its members therein. He says the responsibilities of ministers are higher than those of normal citizens. He cites examples of Korea where 100,000 people stood up against a decision (regarding cow meat)and the minister stood down. He talks about democracies in Europe where ministers often stand down even over personal issues when pressure is put upon them.

The original poster is reminding Abhisit to remember his own words (spoken in 2008) and step down.

[pornsasi]

IMHO the PM proposal seems reasonable and compromising to me , allowing both sides to "save face"

and giving to poorer Isaan folks hope for the future . Will the PM deliver and will he be abble to

demonstrate it of course remains to be seen . For sure it would be quite a departure from pre 2001

politics.

Now on the PM "IF" , if it means that the reds should terminate their protest and go back home

fair and fine . The reds have made their point and by now i feel that the protest will bring nothing

new , just create the risk of violence , which nobody wants (i hope)

But if it means that the opposition should stop campaining within the rule of law , thats not

reasonable .

Edit : typo , syntax

Edited May 4, 2010 by pornsasi

[jdinasia]

oh those poor, poor business people toiling years and years for no profit - my heart bleeds... the reality is the Dems (yellows - just look at their FM) are for the elite and run BY the elite - Abhisit? Eton? Oxford? what ho? son of rich, elitist parents? gimme a break!

... and you think 14th November will change this ?

Hmmm by this reasoning the reds are elites too ....

Dr Weng

Pol Lt Col and convicted felon Dr Thaksin Shinawat -- at one time one of the richest businessmen in Thailand

Veera

Jatuporn

the other financiers for the reds

the list is extensive of backers of the reds and they number amongst the wealthiest people in Thailand (far from being a 'peasant uprising as claimed by many people ---- reds on this board numbering amongst them!)

The fact is that it is an incorrect and facile argument to call the Democrats "yellows", since the PAD has a political party of their own. It is also incorrect to call the reds commoners since the red leadership is made up of 'elites'.

People tend to think of this as a class struggle but then never look at the truth. The truth is that it is one group of elites using some of the urban middle-class and southerners (mostly middleclass and farmers) and another group of elites using the rural N and NE farmers to obtain mostly power goals. Who gets the first bite from the trough!

Abhisit has taken a progressive and sustainable approach to dealing with rural poverty, education, and health-care in Thailand. Promoting taxation on unused/undeveloped land which makes the people that own large tracts of land PAY for it unless it is developed or put into production. ((striking at the heart of tax and land reform!)) Thaksin never did that, instead he created a client/patron dynamic rith the rural poor of the NE and N that landed people in more debt that they THINK they need Thaksin in office to forgive. Thankfully abhisit has openly challenged that by providing debt relief to rural farmers that were going bankrupt due to Thaksin's policies.

[lannarebirth]

The point is that Thailand is desperate for an honest, evolved leader - who can unite the country.

you honestly think Abhisit is THAT man?

Please provide your recommendation. And while you are at it, a draft copy of the Red Election Platform for everyone to study.

Don't be a fool - I have said consistently he/she doesn't exist currently – please read my posts more carefully

You waiting for Maitreya or what?

[quiksilva]

against BOTH leaderships? let Abhisit demonstrate fairness - prosecute yellows for airport take-over and reds for this mess - to do one without the other will lead to escalating trouble.

Absolutely it should be against all antagonists. It must be fair for it to work. Note that the yellows have been charged and are out on bail, but this process obviously needs to be expedited.

I think this proposal addresses all the real concerns that all corners of society know needs to be addressed.

If this is not accepted by the Reds then it will point to the ulterior motives that have long been guessed at by many observers, namely at timing issues regarding military and police reshuffles (which are equally despicable by both parties - but hey that's politics) and at Thaksin's objections to the 2007 charter which effectively destroyed his route back to legitimate Thai politics.

Lets see what happens tonight, when the Reds are due to hold another press conference.

[whybother]

IMHO the PM proposal seems reasonable and compromising to me , allowing both sides to "save face"

and giving to poorer Isaan folks hope for the future . Will the PM deliver and will he be abble to

demonstrate it of course remains to be seen . For sure it would be quite a departure from pre 2001

politics.

Now on the PM "IF" , if it means that the reds should terminate their protest and go back home

fair and fine . The reds have made their point and by now i feel that the protest will bring nothing

new , just create the risk of violence , which nobody wants (i hope)

But if it means that the opposition should stop campaining within the rule of law , thats not

reasonable .

Edit : typo , syntax

By no means do I want to stop them protesting *within the rule of law*.

They need to make sure the government lives up to it's promises. That doesn't mean ruining the economy and bringing a city to a standstill.

They also need to make sure the red leaders live up to their promises.

[kissdani]

Not to mention that the Election Commission acted after being invaded by Arisman's crew, and threatened if they didn't.

Read : Decision made under duress.

It is only a EC recommendation and not a formal charge is laid at this point.

And also remember like PPP and TRT only the party name and some leadership is ever dissolved,

IF it is 'proved in court' that LEADERSHIP knew, acted and condoned the crime.

A 'New Democrats' will be put in place and things will move on. Any MP's elected under that Democrat banner,

will ALSO be legit and in Parliament with full voting rights, under a different banner or no specific banner.

And those individuals regardless of banner can still form a coalition with any other minor party and

overwhelm a PTP minority party that gets too few partners PTP's ONLY HOPE is to win more than 50%

nationally, and with the Red malfeasances of late that will be much harder to do.

The EC didn't act under pressure or is influenced by a third party. The member of the EC based their decisions on fact and evidence and the book of law.

Don't repeat the red wails that EC and court have been influenced by the yellow protest. It is a silly accusation.

There is no question the democrats dissolution will come and Abhisit will get banned from politics for 5 years.

The 'New democrats' will be probably mostly a minority regional party of the south.

The competent and dynamic Bangkok circle, people like Korn, will join the ranks of New Politics Party.

In the future we will see a lot of smaller parties and no big player like the TRT/PPP or Democrats anymore.

The democrats dissolution will come before the new election and for the last days of the old style parliament after will be not a 50,5% 'strong' coalition again, but an assembly where all parties sit together, kinda national government, and draft and enact a reform of the parliamentarian system. This reform will be something like New Politics.

Look at point 5 of the roadmap.

"5) The government will take actions to study the public feelings of injustice regarding to political system, especially after what happened over last few years, and try to solve the problems."

It is clear without much ambiguity, that means New Politics.

Wasn't the problem of the past that parties and politicians "fighting" each other instead of working together. Big parties have the tendency to sit in a trench or having their own mob. Smaller parties work easier together. We need a reform that amend the selection process of the representatives. The goal is that the people will select the honest and the righteous amongst them. Smart individuals and not party sheeps, yesman of a party leader.

Carefully selected wise MPs with no other intention than to serve the King and the country and do good for all people.

[gatorsoft]

But do they KNOW WHY they don't like him? Or they just don't like him because that's what they have been trained to do?

news for you !

There are some people even in Isaan that can think for themselves - Amazing Thailand

Yes, they are the ones that don't support the reds.

whybother: we seem to be on opposite sides politically, but credit where credit is due - that was a very good and funny snappy comeback! Nice to see an example of finely crafted sarcasm.

[quiksilva]

There is no question the democrats dissolution will come and Abhisit will get banned from politics for 5 years.

Actually that is in question. Its been reported that this not a clear cut case and the Democrats have a good defence which may prolong this investigation for up to one year, so it certainly does not look like they'll be disbanded before dissolution.

Besides why would they want to delay house dissolution if they knew full well that they would not be around to partake in the electoral process? It makes no sense.

Oh and this last bit... hehe well good luck with that

Carefully selected wise MPs with no other intention than to serve the King and the country and do good for all people. jap.gif

[jdinasia]

The most important thing from this offer is not about who actually won, it is that if accepted, both parties can walk away from this with the perception that they 'won'.

These individual perceptions may very well be different, even opposing, but so long as each party thinks this is true, work can get started on healing the wounds in society.

The real winners, if the reds accept, is all of the Thai people.

I actually agree! forget about 'winner' let's get this thing done BUT it must be a fair and monitored election process otherwise 'here we go again'

The election is the least important thing on the agenda. It will come, but you should try to focus on what happens till then. That's where the change will come from, or not.

I actually disagree --- Charter reform is the first and most important thing on the agenda.

Tougher rules and tighter requirements for campaigning, corruption, etc...

A "Bill of Rights" that is more direct and noteworthy.

Then a massive government funded campaign that explains democracy and how it works including the obligations of the electorate.

THEN elections.

[elcent]

"Thaksin was born fairly poor"

Maybe you should do a bit of research into Thaksin's "poor" family.

... and according to Thaksin's words, his father sold coffee at the road corners. Still, I haven't gotten any answer to my question. "Was there any coffee around that time, or what else was it?"

You rarely get answers from red supporters.

They must have had a trade monopoly even then. In 1960 the total Thai output was about 750 tons

http://www.123lanla.com/lanlacoffee/histor...ee-in-thailand/

a very strange, quickly made-up on April 19, 2010. It just doesn't make sense when you read that. I think it was written for intimidation only.

[ChiangMaiFun]

you honestly think Abhisit is THAT man?

Please provide your recommendation. And while you are at it, a draft copy of the Red Election Platform for everyone to study.

Don't be a fool - I have said consistently he/she doesn't exist currently – please read my posts more carefully

You waiting for Maitreya or what?

Yes

[lannarebirth]

The most important thing from this offer is not about who actually won, it is that if accepted, both parties can walk away from this with the perception that they 'won'.

These individual perceptions may very well be different, even opposing, but so long as each party thinks this is true, work can get started on healing the wounds in society.

The real winners, if the reds accept, is all of the Thai people.

I actually agree! forget about 'winner' let's get this thing done BUT it must be a fair and monitored election process otherwise 'here we go again'

The election is the least important thing on the agenda. It will come, but you should try to focus on what happens till then. That's where the change will come from, or not.

I actually disagree --- Charter reform is the first and most important thing on the agenda.

Tougher rules and tighter requirements for campaigning, corruption, etc...

A "Bill of Rights" that is more direct and noteworthy.

Then a massive government funded campaign that explains democracy and how it works including the obligations of the electorate.

THEN elections.

I disagree that you've disagreed. You have agreed. We are in agreement.

Edited May 4, 2010 by lannarebirth

[Payboy]

Really?

Maybe sometime he make an effort to forget what he said, even though the RED reminds him every single day, even during the live telecast debate.

Can you please tell me what he said? Sorry, I don't understand much Thai.

He is basically talking about what democracy is, and the responsibilites of a democratically elected government and its members therein. He says the responsibilities of ministers are higher than those of normal citizens. He cites examples of Korea where 100,000 people stood up against a decision (regarding cow meat)and the minister stood down. He talks about democracies in Europe where ministers often stand down even over personal issues when pressure is put upon them.

The original poster is reminding Abhisit to remember his own words (spoken in 2008) and step down.

That is clearly fake - the sign-language interpretation does not match the audio.

[whybother]

I actually disagree --- <snip>

I disagree that you've disagreed. You have agreed. We are in agreement.

I am glad that you have disagreed to agree.

[jcbangkok]

IMHO the PM proposal seems reasonable and compromising to me , allowing both sides to "save face"

and giving to poorer Isaan folks hope for the future . Will the PM deliver and will he be abble to

demonstrate it of course remains to be seen . For sure it would be quite a departure from pre 2001

politics.

Now on the PM "IF" , if it means that the reds should terminate their protest and go back home

fair and fine . The reds have made their point and by now i feel that the protest will bring nothing

new , just create the risk of violence , which nobody wants (i hope)

But if it means that the opposition should stop campaining within the rule of law , thats not

reasonable .

Edit : typo , syntax

By no means do I want to stop them protesting *within the rule of law*.

They need to make sure the government lives up to it's promises. That doesn't mean ruining the economy and bringing a city to a standstill.

They also need to make sure the red leaders live up to their promises.

And we do know that legal (or semi-legal in this case) PROTESTS DO WORK IN THAILAND. One only needs to see that the Abhisit offered pretty much this same solution as his FIRST offer back at the start of this mess when he sat down with protesters who refused to negotiate. One only wonders what more they could have got from his first offer back then had they agreed to negotiate. Bottom line even if they accepted his first offer back then, they could have walked away winners. Now they just look like morons who all of a sudden see the same offer as a victory after they have caused untold hardships, loss of life and economic damage to Thailand and directly to 60k+ of Thai workers.

[lannarebirth]

You waiting for Maitreya or what?

Yes

Well then, you shouldn't let yourself get too bogged down in things like election cycles. When the student is ready, the teacher will appear.

addendum: please figure out the quote system. Whatever you're doing to alter posts takes about 5 minutes to correct so that one can respond to you.

[jcbangkok]

Thaksin response to Abhist road map?