PM Abhisit Announces Next Election Will Be Held On Nov 14

[ChiangMaiFun]

depends on the outcome I guess... but probably not.. alas... but I have a natural aversion to all this 'defferential voting' the elite being 'born' to lead us all - I hate it (nothing against education by the way... I have two degrees) but it's the rich and powerful who 'hold' 85%of the wealth that I despise - my hero's are people like the Dalai Lama etc. I guess ideally I'd like a 'theocracy'.

Do you mean like most of the middle east?

Dalai Lama = good.

Theocracy = bad.

fair point... I mean a 'true' theocracy - anyway I'm dreaming... let's get back to reality

[animatic]

This sounds very nice and finally unlock the situation. Also it makes really govt look like the good guys willing to compromise while the other side... Reds would be crazy to refuse after the bad days they had. However, with terrorists charges threatening and no mention of amnesty in his 5 points program, they might ask to have amnesty added as a number 6 prior to give in.

Where's the compromise?

This sounds just government BS "we're here to help you"

Abhisit is going to have to get real and act like a real leader!

Elections are due in 18 months --- Abhisit is offering 6 months and doing so publicly. That is over a year EARLY. If he acted the way MANY people wanted him to there would be a lot of blood .... (The Reds want blood and so do many of the locals in BKK and then there is the more extreme in the PAD that want it. --- Thankfully the PAD is a minority as are the reds ... and while Abhisit may lose a little support in BKK he will likely gain support upcountry.)

Funny - Abhisit said he would NEVER do this - anyhow I don't like some of this but it should be grasped as Abhisit has capitulated and reds should concentrate on trouncing him at the election - he's finished

Gee wiz dude, Short term memory lose at your age... tsk tsk.

Abhisit made a similar offer, plus a few eeks during face to face negotiations with them, Thaksin SMS'd to kybosh the plan.

But it seems Thaksin's Plan B didn't really go as planned, more deeply in the merde than ever....

What's a proto-despot to do?

[quiksilva]

The most important thing from this offer is not about who actually won, it is that if accepted, both parties can walk away from this with the perception that they 'won'.

These individual perceptions may very well be different, even opposing, but so long as each party thinks this is true, work can get started on healing the wounds in society.

The real winners, if the reds accept, is all of the Thai people.

[whybother]

ouch! I would ideally wish that the very best of medical care should be available to ALL regardless of circumstances - one of the very BEST things that the UK has to offer - in fact I was a senior NHS manager for 20 years myself before I was seduced by the City. The point is that Thailand is desperate for an honest, evolved leader - who can unite the country.

"Thailand is desperate for an honest, evolved leader - who can unite the country."

Agreed. One of the reason's I am so anti-red is because NONE of them even comes close to that description.

There is also little chance of finding one of those in the near future.

If it is a non-red leader, then the reds will hate him, regardless of what he does.

There is no possibilty of finding an honest, evolved red leader.

[kissdani]

I'd take my hat off to Abhisit any day ...as soon as he explains on national television as to why he took a 259 million Baht illegal donation during the last election, and approved it as the chairman of the Democrats. Sure, you can try and smear the opposition party as corrupt, but at least you've got to acknowledge you're just as corrupt. Hands caught in the cookie jar

you are grasping at the very few straws left on the table

dissolution will never happen by this route

its a trumped up charge, passed over quickly by the EC commission under death threat by Arisaman and his rent a mob.

when its investigated it will be seen to have been passed upstairs under duress and to be an eroneous charge manufactured by Phua Thai to muddy the waters of the Democrats

it will be seen for what it is and officially dropped when the Red head haze has died down

Korn and Abhissit are both financial wizards, Korn is the 2010 Asian banker of the year

do you really think they couldn't have laundered this in a way so that it would not be discovered by the ex rice pickers/bean counters at the EC?

please grow up........

Don't have silly hopes. The evidence is clear. 2 cases, in one the EC voted 4:1 and in the other 5:0.

It is a save bet to say that the democrats will be dissolved and Abhisit banned from politics.

Korn will go afterwards to New Politics Party and not join the new 'ex-democrats' party.

Dead....., sorry to disappoint , according to my almost a lawyer niece, the 250m baht contribution was made, legally, after the 1997 constitution was revoked and before the 2007 constitution was put in place. It is going to be hard for the courts to find a constitutional law that was violated.

Both illegal contribution charges are less serious charges than election fraud, and could have been decided by the head of the EC alone. He was sitting on the charges until Arisman stormed to EC and the vote was made the next day, by the whole (but not required) committee. This is called buck passing under pressure.

The dems also have the best legal teams in the country.

Don't waste your tome for hopes that will not come true. The EC didn't act under pressure or influence by third parties.

The court willl rule firm and fair, principally FIRM.

Don't think that is only a soft issue. Look at and study the cases that brought the other parties down , then you will know what firm ruling means and understand that there is no hope for the democrats.

'the best legal team in the country'??? A Ben Matlock or Ally McBeal would not help here much. The Democrats did something wrong and will be found guilty and punished according to the written law. End of story.

Edited May 4, 2010 by kissdani

[jcbangkok]

I disagree and do believe a good portion of the people outside the Northeast see them as just above the uneducated illegal Lao workers in Thailand. They are without a doubt looked down on by much of Thailand and sadly to say that because they have allowed the red leaders to conduct this war against Thailand, they are now also hated by a good deal of Thais.

There situation is not fair (but who said life is) but they do have the ability to control their destiny. I don't recommend taking this route but Thaksin was born fairly poor and is from the north and he rose up. Family farming is always going to be a poor job in this day and age anywhere in the world but the point is these people need to be able to educate (schooling) their next generation and do a lot more to not latch on to violent leaders but rather charismatic and smart ones that can change perceptions. People in Germany were rightly mad and angry about their conditions and this is why they followed Hitler same as many blacks followed revolutionary leaders in the US but this is not the way to achieve your goals especially when you are dealing with a gov't smart enough not to give in an attack lawless mobs and allow them to be perceived as bullies who truly don't see the underprivileged as non-human.

The other thing these folks need to realize is that Thaksin clearly was not good for them as they are now more in debt than ever and there was no real polices put in place to allow them to prosper on their own. Thaksin's policies were one of hand-outs for votes and making their local leaders rich because the masses up there are so easy to control and manipulate with a few cash handouts here in there or even providing them guaranteed loans that everyone knows they cannot pay back and will just make them more in debt to local leaders.

I can only imagine what would happen if the US just gave out loans to people in the slums in the US without requiring these loans be applied to specific things. I think the result would probably be most everyone in the ghetto driving around in soon to be repo'd Cadillacs and watching flat screens with only a very few using the money to improve their opportunities in life. This would not their fault for many reasons but partly because Thaksin and the local leaders need to keep these people down and encourage this. Also these folks are not mostly not educated or experienced in how to invest in themselves in a world that is not as simple as being able to get ahead if you work hard and produce a product everyone needs.

"Thaksin was born fairly poor"

Maybe you should do a bit of research into Thaksin's "poor" family.

You are right, I worded that completely wrong and was just trying to say he rose up from being a policeman but he clearly did have more of an opportunity for getting an education but then again it is not that hard to get an education in Thailand now a days. In fact, if you even want to work as a store clerk in BKK you need a college degree. Not to mention he rose up from times of being not just broke but incredibly in debt due to his numerous business failures ... but you are right, he is not a good example.

Edited May 4, 2010 by jcbangkok

[ChiangMaiFun]

The most important thing from this offer is not about who actually won, it is that if accepted, both parties can walk away from this with the perception that they 'won'.

These individual perceptions may very well be different, even opposing, but so long as each party thinks this is true, work can get started on healing the wounds in society.

The real winners, if the reds accept, is all of the Thai people.

I actually agree! forget about 'winner' let's get this thing done BUT it must be a fair and monitored election process otherwise 'here we go again'

[connel707]

Amnesty will be an issue here - apart from that, I would like to hear the objections to this suggestion. It sounds better than any other alternatives we have right now.

Amnesty for Abhisit? By the time the next election comes, his party will likely be dissolved and Abhisit banned from politics for 5 years.

There sure are some real idiots on this Forum......!! Dont have to look to hard...

So what you are saying is that if someone has a different point of view to yourself then they are an idiot?

What part of Africa are you from.... ?

[RickBradford]

At LAST someone actually telling the truth - of course it would never have happened without the red protest - that's a fact

No, it isn't. It's what you think, and hence it is an opinion, same as anyone else's.

[Chaimai]

The most important thing from this offer is not about who actually won, it is that if accepted, both parties can walk away from this with the perception that they 'won'.

These individual perceptions may very well be different, even opposing, but so long as each party thinks this is true, work can get started on healing the wounds in society.

The real winners, if the reds accept, is all of the Thai people.

I actually agree! forget about 'winner' let's get this thing done BUT it must be a fair and monitored election process otherwise 'here we go again'

I agree entirely with both posts.

However, and not wishing to dampen the enthusiasm for a speedy and safe conclusion to the protest, appropriate legal action needs to be pursued against the red leadership.

I am sure that the charges of attempting to overthrow the monarchy can be dropped.

Edited May 4, 2010 by Chaimai

[BlackJack]

Thai PM says ready to hold November elections under roadmap

BANGKOK (AFP) -- Thailand's prime minister said Monday he was ready to hold elections on November 14 to end a tense standoff with opposition protesters, subject to certain conditions under his reconciliation roadmap.

"If all five goals are achieved ... the election can be held on November 14," Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said in a nationally televised address.

<img src=http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/pics/afplogo.jpg target="_blank">

-- ©Copyright AFP 2010-05-03

Published with written approval from AFP.

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

IF

[ableguy]

a little more than 3 months, as proposed by the protesters

What solutions were the protestors offering for all Thais, or any Thais for that matter?

The protesters are not campaigning they only want ELECTIONS.

What utter nonsense get real.

[whybother]

The most important thing from this offer is not about who actually won, it is that if accepted, both parties can walk away from this with the perception that they 'won'.

These individual perceptions may very well be different, even opposing, but so long as each party thinks this is true, work can get started on healing the wounds in society.

The real winners, if the reds accept, is all of the Thai people.

I actually agree! forget about 'winner' let's get this thing done BUT it must be a fair and monitored election process otherwise 'here we go again'

Do you think the reds would allow international monitoring of the election process?

The way to keep the yellows of the street is to make sure that everyone can campaign without threats.

[animatic]

oh those poor, poor business people toiling years and years for no profit - my heart bleeds... the reality is the Dems (yellows - just look at their FM) are for the elite and run BY the elite - Abhisit? Eton? Oxford? what ho? son of rich, elitist parents? gimme a break!

... and you think 14th November will change this ?

depends on the outcome I guess... but probably not.. alas... but I have a natural aversion to all this 'defferential voting' the elite being 'born' to lead us all - I hate it (nothing against education by the way... I have two degrees) but it's the rich and powerful who 'hold' 85%of the wealth that I despise - my hero's are people like the Dalai Lama etc. I guess ideally I'd like a 'theocracy'.

So, how is this fundamentally different from the rest of the world?

Those that can do, and profit from their labors,

those that can't, stay poorer than those that can do.

I have no problem with taxes, and decent social services, and training for jobs,

and job creation and health care for all. But not so much the Robin Hood type,

leveling of the rich back too poor, because that greatly hampers job creation.

We know in Russia, China and Cuba, as biggest examples this doesn't work,

except to create a new ideologically hard core absolutist elite.

Changing one elite for another, but with fewer jobs and generally greater levels of equally poor.

Remember Robin hood stole from the rich to give to the poor,

but only from evil King John's Norman friends, and in support of good King Richard's people.

Edited May 4, 2010 by animatic

[jcbangkok]

"Thailand is desperate for an honest, evolved leader - who can unite the country."

-----------

But do the people of Thailand know this? Most people in Thailand have a very short memory and are not too up on history. Ask the average Thai if they know who Hitler is or even if they know the US had a war with Vietnam, if they were born after the conflict. There was also a poll done not too long ago that indicted the vast majority of Thais expect their leaders to be corrupt.

The one good thing about the red movement is it has got a lot of people to open their eyes and ears to alternative possibilities. However, it is sad that many reds still have not opened their eyes to anything but what their violent leaders are selling even with many of their violent inciting media outlets shut down.

Edited May 4, 2010 by jcbangkok

[gl9999]

First of all, if they're not dissolved, it's clearly an act of double standard. Just like the yellow shirts that are awaiting trial since 2 years and are roaming free urging the government to crack down on the red shirts. But let's not go there.

Abhisit can "roll out the tanks" but that will not solve anything, unless the army plans to basically kill everyone, which they're not going to do. The red shirts can be dispersed but they will simply regroup elsewhere and come back. Negotiating is the only way to solve this.

So what if it's a double standard? This is Thailand. Sad to say, the judiciary has never actually been fair and they always rule according to where the wind blows. This applies also to the Red Shirts when they were in power. That is why we always have to fall back to the Army and their coups.

PM Abhisit doesn't want to send the troops in but this compromise he has laid out is as fair a deal as it will get. There is no more negotiation. Killing the rebels camping out won't solve anything but this time, the PM has the high ground and he can lay whatever tragedy that happens on the feet of the red shirt leaders.

[ableguy]

Can't see the red leaders getting Amnesty the PM has been firm on this he wants people charged and investigations to continue.

I think Abhisit is the one that will be looking for amnesty. Remember the Democrats face dissolution and by the time the next election comes in November, Abhisit will likely be banned from politics for 5 years for election fraud.

He did not commit election fraud it is alleged the democrat party did,and to date that is only an allegation, you armchair politicians are a joke.

[andrisdg]

What a laugh,the PM has suggested in his road map doing what democratic governments are supposed to do ,that is govern for all not just the elite

So caught been a rock and a hard place with violent suppression of the agenda as a public relations disaster in the making captured life on camera the olive branch has been extended to the reds

The risk is not the current civil disobedience with its low level violence as a precursor to civil war but as somebody else delicately alluded to the other day on a phukett post ,its the the eventual passing of the baton and re arrangements in the elite power structure ,when the un mentionable inevitable changing of the guard takes place

The PM on the face of it is buying time and it may work temporarily but the day of reckoning can not be avoided .the real power struggle for political supremacy is still to come

[lannarebirth]

Thaksin is getting democratic:

Former Prime Minister of Thailand Thaksin Shinawatra Hires International Law Firm Amsterdam & Peroff

LONDON, May 3 /PRNewswire/ -- Today Amsterdam & Peroff announce that they have been appointed counsel to the former Prime Minister of Thailand Thaksin Shinawatra, to assist in the current contentious struggle for the restoration of democracy and rule of law in the Southeast Asian nation.

"We are pleased to be retained by Prime Minister Shinawatra to work on this urgent matter, and we acknowledge the challenging complexity and sensitivity of the political crisis unraveling Thai society," said Robert Amsterdam, founding partner of Amsterdam & Peroff. "It is our intention to explore every legal avenue to assist this pro-democracy movement, and urge the international community not to tolerate the government's violent crackdown on peaceful protestors."

Thaksin, who served as Thailand's Prime Minister from 2001 to 2006 before being unlawfully forced from office by a military coup, has been living in self-exile for the past two years despite repeated victories in democratic elections. Protestors affiliated with the National United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD, or "Red Shirts"), suffered 27 casualties in violent confrontations with police and military in the month of April.

Amsterdam & Peroff, founded in 1980 by partners Robert Amsterdam and Dean Peroff, is an international law firm specializing in complex multi-jurisdictional litigation, commercial arbitration, and political advocacy in challenging emerging markets. The firm maintains offices in London, Washington, DC and Toronto. More information is available at www.amsterdamandperoff.com and www.robertamsterdam.com.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/fo...f-92662189.html

By my count that's the fourth western PR/legal firm that Thaksin has hired to spin his bullshit and interfere with Thai society. Blood money.

[jcbangkok]

Can't see the red leaders getting Amnesty the PM has been firm on this he wants people charged and investigations to continue.

I think Abhisit is the one that will be looking for amnesty. Remember the Democrats face dissolution and by the time the next election comes in November, Abhisit will likely be banned from politics for 5 years for election fraud.

He did not commit election fraud it is alleged the democrat party did,and to date that is only an allegation, you armchair politicians are a joke.

There is NO allegation before any court that there was election fraud. This is a case about illegal contribution (and spending) and NOT ELECTION FRAUD which is considerably more serious.

[jcbangkok]

If Thailand ever does get their act together and the poor of this country actually are able to get good paying jobs ... there would be far few of us Farangs in Thailand.

[whybother]

ThaivisaNews: Suporn, UDD: Red-Shirts to reveal group's stance on PM's reconciliation plan before noon; if agree, will send Veera to negotiate

This is where the red leaders will accept the general plan, but negotiate for amnesty.

[whybother]

If Thailand ever does get their act together and the poor of this country actually are able to get good paying jobs ... there would be far few of us Farangs in Thailand.

They will also have been able to do more than most western countries.

[drdoom6996]

The Government are playing a fantastic strategy here. First the offer new ID cards and a free ride home to the ones that want to leave the protest. Then they announce a very reasonable compromise in the road map. The majority of red shirts will accept this as a victory. The hard liners will not. The numbers drastically reduce and the women and children leave.

The door is wide open to use force to arrest the hard liners. Good plan by the Government in my opinion. The reds and Thaksin have once again been out flanked by the Government. Abhisit will come out of this, smelling of roses and the red leaders will be seen by the world for what they are. Thaksin's mercenaries.

Cheers, Rick

Good one, Rick. I'm with you!

Hear Hear !

That's how I see it as well

Yes Yes Yes, a comment worth replying to. Unbaised and thoughtful.

[noahvail]

ouch! I would ideally wish that the very best of medical care should be available to ALL regardless of circumstances - one of the very BEST things that the UK has to offer - in fact I was a senior NHS manager for 20 years myself before I was seduced by the City. The point is that Thailand is desperate for an honest, evolved leader - who can unite the country.

Thank you for responding with such graciousness You have understood my point well. As an aside, the government has been financing additional training for doctors in the very small amphur hospitals. One local GP has just returned from a sabbatical to improve his abilities at surgery, for example - paid for by the government. Just another of the unsung benefits to Thai society that the PM has put into place.

I would agree that to our western minds, that Thailand at least *should* be desperate for an honest, evolved, and uniting leader. My guess would be that since there is really no experience with such a leader, until now, that it's difficult for Thai to understand and accept a new way, a new breed, of politics and politicians. (That's not limited to Thailand - virtually any society, when coming against a new national way of doing things, can take a fair amount of time to get used to the new way, and to "unlearn" the old ways.)

[jcbangkok]

ThaivisaNews: Suporn, UDD: Red-Shirts to reveal group's stance on PM's reconciliation plan before noon; if agree, will send Veera to negotiate

This is where the red leaders will accept the general plan, but negotiate for amnesty.

Wonder what makes them think this is still a negotiation.

[lannarebirth]

Who in thier right mind would hire a former thai politician and even more so a corrupt yellow shirt. I wouldn't let the man handle my childs pocket money. Mybe he should go back home to England

Why do red shirt supporters have to label anyone that is not red as a yellow?

That would mean that 80% of Thais are yellow.

Actually that would make over 90% probably .....

moetownblues is suggesting now that a Thai leave Thailand? Why? because Moetownblues doesn't like him?

wasn't he born raised and educated in England? He holds English citizenship. Maybe I don't like him he seems very sly and out to feather his own nest at the expense of the thai people. Every thai I have spoken with say he is corrupt and evil. It appears that only farangs support him but what has he done or doing for you. Farangs in his eyes are just the same as the working class thais.

I don't believe you. Very few Thais believes that.

[Chaimai]

ThaivisaNews: Suporn, UDD: Red-Shirts to reveal group's stance on PM's reconciliation plan before noon; if agree, will send Veera to negotiate

This is where the red leaders will accept the general plan, but negotiate for amnesty.

As Thaksin has stated that he is not behind the red protest, he will presumably be indifferent to the red leaders' expected acceptance of Abhisit's proposals.

[gl9999]

wasn't he born raised and educated in England? He holds English citizenship. Maybe I don't like him he seems very sly and out to feather his own nest at the expense of the thai people. Every thai I have spoken with say he is corrupt and evil. It appears that only farangs support him but what has he done or doing for you. Farangs in his eyes are just the same as the working class thais.

Every Thai I've talked to says the opposite about him. And everything bad you say about Abhisit seems to be what the people I've talked to say about Thaksin.

[jcbangkok]

Thaksin is getting democratic:

Former Prime Minister of Thailand Thaksin Shinawatra Hires International Law Firm Amsterdam & Peroff

LONDON, May 3 /PRNewswire/ -- Today Amsterdam & Peroff announce that they have been appointed counsel to the former Prime Minister of Thailand Thaksin Shinawatra, to assist in the current contentious struggle for the restoration of democracy and rule of law in the Southeast Asian nation.

"We are pleased to be retained by Prime Minister Shinawatra to work on this urgent matter, and we acknowledge the challenging complexity and sensitivity of the political crisis unraveling Thai society," said Robert Amsterdam, founding partner of Amsterdam & Peroff. "It is our intention to explore every legal avenue to assist this pro-democracy movement, and urge the international community not to tolerate the government's violent crackdown on peaceful protestors."

Thaksin, who served as Thailand's Prime Minister from 2001 to 2006 before being unlawfully forced from office by a military coup, has been living in self-exile for the past two years despite repeated victories in democratic elections. Protestors affiliated with the National United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD, or "Red Shirts"), suffered 27 casualties in violent confrontations with police and military in the month of April.

Amsterdam & Peroff, founded in 1980 by partners Robert Amsterdam and Dean Peroff, is an international law firm specializing in complex multi-jurisdictional litigation, commercial arbitration, and political advocacy in challenging emerging markets. The firm maintains offices in London, Washington, DC and Toronto. More information is available at www.amsterdamandperoff.com and www.robertamsterdam.com.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/fo...f-92662189.html

By my count that's the fourth western PR/legal firm that Thaksin has hired to spin his bullshit and interfere with Thai society. Blood money.

And this is why the PR firm paid to get this story out there ... note the link, it is a paid PR firm and not a news site.