PM Abhisit Announces Next Election Will Be Held On Nov 14

[scorecard]

This sounds very nice and like a possible breaktrough ... Reds would be crazy to refuse after the bad days they had. However, with terrorists charges threatening and no mention of amnesty in his 5 point program, they might ask to have amnesty added as a number 6 prior to give in.

Yes I think this is a main point. Amnesty! Most of them out on bail already. Difficult question, but i think they must face justice, because many of their crimes is to serious.

Amnesty needs a lot of very careful discussion.

With amnesty the sceanario would be: jatuporn and his clan are given amnesty, then the flood gates open with hundreds of other people involved in some way saying they are also entitled to amnesty and it would be difficult to say no, then thaksin saying he wants amnesty because it's been granted to many others. Now how / who selects who is granted and who is not granted amnesty. Now what if the red shirst start up another campaign for 'no double standards' on thaksin's behalf. (And let's please not assume that the red shirts / UDD , at the date they are all given amnesty, will totally die and never be seen again!)

And further this would become a law precedent and would have to be considered in the application of the law forever.

Is all of this really adviseable?

[dhrobertson]

Any word of an actual or implied amnesty for red "leaders", "guards", mercenaries ?

I sincerely hope not....

[lannarebirth]

This sounds very nice and like a possible breaktrough ... Reds would be crazy to refuse after the bad days they had. However, with terrorists charges threatening and no mention of amnesty in his 5 point program, they might ask to have amnesty added as a number 6 prior to give in.

Yes I think this is a main point. Amnesty! Most of them out on bail already. Difficult question, but i think they must face justice, because many of their crimes is to serious.

Amnesty needs a lot of very careful discussion.

With amnesty the sceanario would be: jatuporn and his clan are given amnesty, then the flood gates open with hundreds of other people involved in some way saying they are also entitled to amnesty and it would be difficult to say no, then thaksin saying he wants amnesty because it's been granted to many others. Now how / who selects who is granted and who is not granted amnesty. Now what if the red shirst start up another campaign for 'no double standards' on thaksin's behalf. (And let's please not assume that the red shirts / UDD , at the date they are all given amnesty, will totally die and never be seen again!)

And further this would become a law precedent and would have to be considered in the application of the law forever.

Is all of this really adviseable?

There will be no amnesty. Double standards don't you know. Will the courts be overly lenient to all these a-holes on both sides, past and present? Probably.

[ChiangMaiFun]

You waiting for Maitreya or what?

Yes

Well then, you shouldn't let yourself get too bogged down in things like election cycles. When the student is ready, the teacher will appear.

addendum: please figure out the quote system. Whatever you're doing to alter posts takes about 5 minutes to correct so that one can respond to you.

Point One: hence my comments about cultural shift - all part of it (worldwide) - and I am not bogged down - you are

Point Two: this stupid system keeps telling me I quote too many blocks of text so I have to delete some - and bingo!

[gatorsoft]

Abhisit isn't a prosecutor he's the PM, that is a different department.

Being a little naive don't you think? Vigorous prosecution of the reds while continuing 17+ months of foot dragging on the prosecution of the PAD will not aid reconciliation.

[Jerrytheyoung]

Wait guys... in this kind of situation, middlemen are very active. They need time to pre-figure an agreement. No winner, no looser except Thailand.

So, this day is a long one for negociators ......

[Mekhong]

Thaksin response to Abhist road map?

Nice one. You want me to translate this too?

[Lopburi99]

And we do know that legal (or semi-legal in this case) PROTESTS DO WORK IN THAILAND. One only needs to see that the Abhisit offered pretty much this same solution as his FIRST offer back at the start of this mess when he sat down with protesters who refused to negotiate. One only wonders what more they could have got from his first offer back then had they agreed to negotiate. Bottom line even if they accepted his first offer back then, they could have walked away winners. Now they just look like morons who all of a sudden see the same offer as a victory after they have caused untold hardships, loss of life and economic damage to Thailand and directly to 60k+ of Thai workers.

I agree 100%. The Reds blew it.

Edited May 4, 2010 by Lopburi99

[whybother]

Point Two: this stupid system keeps telling me I quote too many blocks of text so I have to delete some - and bingo!

You need to delete in pairs ... from start quote (quote inside [ ]) to end quote (/quote inside [ ])

Easiest to delete from the second last end quote leaving only one quote pair.

Edited May 4, 2010 by whybother

[lannarebirth]

You waiting for Maitreya or what?

Yes

Well then, you shouldn't let yourself get too bogged down in things like election cycles. When the student is ready, the teacher will appear.

addendum: please figure out the quote system. Whatever you're doing to alter posts takes about 5 minutes to correct so that one can respond to you.

Point One: hence my comments about cultural shift - all part of it (worldwide) - and I am not bogged down - you are

Point Two: this stupid system keeps telling me I quote too many blocks of text so I have to delete some - and bingo!

Point one: Everybody knows about THAT shift, which is not guaranteed at all. I doubt if things are bad enough yet. You've been talking micro for months, now you're switching to macro.

point two. The quote systen sucks but most of us have figured out what to do to make it work. You haven't. You can't arbitraily delete posts, you have to get the

stuff right.

[J*ames Arthur]

This sounds very nice and finally unlock the situation. Also it makes really govt look like the good guys willing to compromise while the other side... Reds would be crazy to refuse after the bad days they had. However, with terrorists charges threatening and no mention of amnesty in his 5 points program, they might ask to have amnesty added as a number 6 prior to give in.

Where's the compromise?

This sounds just government BS "we're here to help you"

Abhisit is going to have to get real and act like a real leader!

What do you mean, 'where is the compromise'? Abhisit has already compromised.

Cynics like you fuel the fire of social unrest and common disorder. Nothing is ever good enough.

What do you mean by 'Abhisit is going to have to get real and act like a leader'?

It seems to me - and to most people posting on here - that Abhisit is doing exactly that - getting real.

I don't know how much experience you have of this wonderful country, but Abhisit is arguably one of the most intelligent, respected, polite, gracious and thoughtful prime ministers the country has ever seen. Educated in the UK, he is forward-thinking, caring, open and honest. He does not want to see anymore bloodshed for his people. He does not want to see any more damage done to his country's image. And, he does not want any more damage done to Thailand's already long suffering tourism industry.

Abhisit has offered a realistic package - let's hope that the money-driven joke of an anarchic mob - aka - the Red Shirts - take it and start to act their age - instead of their shoe size. The Red Shirts are simply hel_l bent on their own devisive political agenda. They will do all they can to get it and do not care one iota about Thailand's image and the pain and suffering caused to their fellow Thai citizens.

Finally, let's hope individuals like you keep quiet unless you have something critically constructive to say on this sad situation.

[pornsasi]

IMHO the PM proposal seems reasonable and compromising to me , allowing both sides to "save face"

and giving to poorer Isaan folks hope for the future . Will the PM deliver and will he be abble to

demonstrate it of course remains to be seen . For sure it would be quite a departure from pre 2001

politics.

Now on the PM "IF" , if it means that the reds should terminate their protest and go back home

fair and fine . The reds have made their point and by now i feel that the protest will bring nothing

new , just create the risk of violence , which nobody wants (i hope)

But if it means that the opposition should stop campaining within the rule of law , thats not

reasonable .

Edit : typo , syntax

By no means do I want to stop them protesting *within the rule of law*.

They need to make sure the government lives up to it's promises. That doesn't mean ruining the economy and bringing a city to a standstill.

They also need to make sure the red leaders live up to their promises.

Mob violence red or yellow has been tolerated by too many governements those last years

thats the problem

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/-pad-sho...lice/1307011549

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5O1ZXbet04

For the reds i think they should have negociated earlier , but you will admit

that without protest the PM would not had come with his road map

[ChiangMaiFun]

Point Two: this stupid system keeps telling me I quote too many blocks of text so I have to delete some - and bingo!

You need to delete in pairs ... from start quote (quote inside [ ]) to end quote (/quote inside [ ])

Easiest to delete from the second last end quote leaving only one quote pair.

Thankls - I'll try - it's not terribly easy - i wonder why they don't develop it slightly better - there are quotes in disarry all over the site

[kissdani]

He did not commit election fraud it is alleged the democrat party did,and to date that is only an allegation, you armchair politicians are a joke.

There is NO allegation before any court that there was election fraud. This is a case about illegal contribution (and spending) and NOT ELECTION FRAUD which is considerably more serious.

Yes, what is 'buying' a whole party for a nine digit sum compared with a five digit donation to some villages in your constituency to people who vote for you anyway.

Don't have false hope, the dissolution of the democrats will come.

How's your national unity party prediction coming along?

Not a national unity party but something like a national unity government.

An entity that should be only short time in power, on an interim basis, and with the main purpose to bring a reform of the politics on its way. To be successful it has to be done with participation of the "reds"(what probably means a goodbye to Abhisit, he kinda obstruct the way )

Look at point five of the road map:

5) The government will take actions to study the public feelings of injustice regarding to political system, especially after what happened over last few years, and try to solve the problems.

Solve the problem - that is the big reform that will coming. It is obvious that it cannot be done only by the current government, only with its current coalition partners, but must include all members of the parliament.

The dissolution of the democrats and its ex members joining a new party, and a fair share will join the 'yellow' party will bring also the PAD into the big parliamentarian boat where everybody works on a reform.

Temocrats dissolution is a big chance and the best way to bring reforms on its way. A reform you can call New Politics, nothing wrong with, the PAD wasn't the best tool to introduce it and a lot of people got it wrong, but actually is New Politics a good thing.

Otherwise nothing will change.

[pornsasi]

Point Two: this stupid system keeps telling me I quote too many blocks of text so I have to delete some - and bingo!

You need to delete in pairs ... from start quote (quote inside [ ]) to end quote (/quote inside [ ])

Easiest to delete from the second last end quote leaving only one quote pair.

Same problem here . Must try that . Thanks

[whybother]

Not a national unity party but something like a national unity government.

An entity that should be only short time in power, on an interim basis, and with the main purpose to bring a reform of the politics on its way. To be successful it has to be done with participation of the "reds"(what probably means a goodbye to Abhisit, he kinda obstruct the way )

Look at point five of the road map:

5) The government will take actions to study the public feelings of injustice regarding to political system, especially after what happened over last few years, and try to solve the problems.

Solve the problem - that is the big reform that will coming. It is obvious that it cannot be done only by the current government, only with its current coalition partners, but must include all members of the parliament.

The dissolution of the democrats and its ex members joining a new party, and a fair share will join the 'yellow' party will bring also the PAD into the big parliamentarian boat where everybody works on a reform.

Temocrats dissolution is a big chance and the best way to bring reforms on its way. A reform you can call New Politics, nothing wrong with, the PAD wasn't the best tool to introduce it and a lot of people got it wrong, but actually is New Politics a good thing.

Otherwise nothing will change.

That's why Abhisit said in the first negotiations, bringing together people from ALL sides, government, opposition, community groups etc, for discussion on what should be in the constitution. He wants to change it for the good of ALL Thais, not just the good of one minority group, as the reds want to do.

[lannarebirth]

There is NO allegation before any court that there was election fraud. This is a case about illegal contribution (and spending) and NOT ELECTION FRAUD which is considerably more serious.

Yes, what is 'buying' a whole party for a nine digit sum compared with a five digit donation to some villages in your constituency to people who vote for you anyway.

Don't have false hope, the dissolution of the democrats will come.

How's your national unity party prediction coming along?

Not a national unity party but something like a national unity government.

An entity that should be only short time in power, on an interim basis, and with the main purpose to bring a reform of the politics on its way. To be successful it has to be done with participation of the "reds"(what probably means a goodbye to Abhisit, he kinda obstruct the way )

Look at point five of the road map:

5) The government will take actions to study the public feelings of injustice regarding to political system, especially after what happened over last few years, and try to solve the problems.

Solve the problem - that is the big reform that will coming. It is obvious that it cannot be done only by the current government, only with its current coalition partners, but must include all members of the parliament.

The dissolution of the democrats and its ex members joining a new party, and a fair share will join the 'yellow' party will bring also the PAD into the big parliamentarian boat where everybody works on a reform.

Temocrats dissolution is a big chance and the best way to bring reforms on its way. A reform you can call New Politics, nothing wrong with, the PAD wasn't the best tool to introduce it and a lot of people got it wrong, but actually is New Politics a good thing.

Otherwise nothing will change.

As bad as Thai politics is its not really all that different than politics anywhere else. It's the culture and society that is the problem and when that is overlaid on to politics the nation suffers. This dialogue that needs to take place is about "new society", "new culture". A recent poll says 82% of Thai people are ok with corruption. There's no "New Politics" that's going to turn that around. On the contrary. When the people change their way of thinking the politicians will adapt to it. Not vice versa.

[saintofsilence]

This sounds very nice and finally unlock the situation. Also it makes really govt look like the good guys willing to compromise while the other side... Reds would be crazy to refuse after the bad days they had. However, with terrorists charges threatening and no mention of amnesty in his 5 points program, they might ask to have amnesty added as a number 6 prior to give in.

Where's the compromise?

This sounds just government BS "we're here to help you"

Abhisit is going to have to get real and act like a real leader!

What do you mean, 'where is the compromise'? Abhisit has already compromised.

Cynics like you fuel the fire of social unrest and common disorder. Nothing is ever good enough.

What do you mean by 'Abhisit is going to have to get real and act like a leader'?

It seems to me - and to most people posting on here - that Abhisit is doing exactly that - getting real.

I don't know how much experience you have of this wonderful country, but Abhisit is arguably one of the most intelligent, respected, polite, gracious and thoughtful prime ministers the country has ever seen. Educated in the UK, he is forward-thinking, caring, open and honest. He does not want to see anymore bloodshed for his people. He does not want to see any more damage done to his country's image. And, he does not want any more damage done to Thailand's already long suffering tourism industry.

Abhisit has offered a realistic package - let's hope that the money-driven joke of an anarchic mob - aka - the Red Shirts - take it and start to act their age - instead of their shoe size. The Red Shirts are simply hel_l bent on their own devisive political agenda. They will do all they can to get it and do not care one iota about Thailand's image and the pain and suffering caused to their fellow Thai citizens.

Finally, let's hope individuals like you keep quiet unless you have something critically constructive to say on this sad situation.

Excactly Abhisit has more international political respect than any other leaders have every had .

For people to show disrespect to him have no integrity , he is the best hope to move Thailand forward and all these red followers should sit back and listen to him instead of being bribed with a few hundred baht to be human shields to a bunch of terrorist , mafia , uneducated thugs .

Listen to your PM people and give him respect you don't realise how lucky you are to have this great PM.

[pornsasi]

There will be no amnesty. Double standards don't you know. Will the courts be overly lenient to all these a-holes on both sides, past and present? Probably.

Amnesty is not a good idea , violence should be punished .

And both reds and yellows should be treated the same way .

I dont expect the sentence to be harsh , a month or two

in the cooler perhaps .

Edited May 4, 2010 by pornsasi

[kissdani]

"Thaksin was born fairly poor"

Maybe you should do a bit of research into Thaksin's "poor" family.

... and according to Thaksin's words, his father sold coffee at the road corners. Still, I haven't gotten any answer to my question. "Was there any coffee around that time, or what else was it?"

You rarely get answers from red supporters.

The true Thaksin experts you will find amongst the anti-reds at TVF. They know many details including special interests trivia, like information about Thaksins testicles and prostate. The real insider stuff.

[jcbangkok]

Thaksin response to Abhist road map?

Nice one. You want me to translate this too?

I thought this was pretty dam_n funny but Thais with little understanding of editing videos have cried laughing when they see this.

[pornsasi]

As bad as Thai politics is its not really all that different than politics anywhere else. It's the culture and society that is the problem and when that is overlaid on to politics the nation suffers. This dialogue that needs to take place is about "new society", "new culture". A recent poll says 82% of Thai people are ok with corruption. There's no "New Politics" that's going to turn that around. On the contrary. When the people change their way of thinking the politicians will adapt to it. Not vice versa.

Unfortunately you are right . Corruption is a cultural problem , not something created by the politicians

They just follow the trend as there is no politician that dont want to be elected .

Better education at school for children , campaining on TV for adults ,could do a lot to reverse the

trend .

[gl9999]

The true Thaksin experts you will find amongst the anti-reds at TVF. They know many details including special interests trivia, like information about Thaksins testicles and prostate. The real insider stuff.

You don't need to read a book about Thaksin. All you need to do is Google him. He's full of shit, lying to his supporters about what a humble beginning he had 'selling coffee by the corner' when in fact he was born in one of the Chiang Mai's richest families.

You red shirts like to ignore these little facts about Thaksin while so vigorously attacking PM Abhisit because he too was born in a rich family. This is so typical of the red shirt hypocrisy.

[misterjag]

If they accept Abhisit's compromise, the Red Shirts will have succeeded through civil disobedience in making redress of their grievances a national priority and accelerated elections by 6 months. They can declare victory and use the momentum generated to reshape Parliament through the ballot box. IMO they ought to accept the compromise subject to further clarification of the details.

[whybother]

If they accept Abhisit's compromise, the Red Shirts will have succeeded through civil disobedience in making redress of their grievances a national priority and accelerated elections by 6 months. They can declare victory and use the momentum generated to reshape Parliament through the ballot box. IMO they ought to accept the compromise subject to further clarification of the details.

"Civil disobedience" doesn't usually involve throwing hand grenades and shooting people.

[gl9999]

If they accept Abhisit's compromise, the Red Shirts will have succeeded through civil disobedience in making redress of their grievances a national priority and accelerated elections by 6 months. They can declare victory and use the momentum generated to reshape Parliament through the ballot box. IMO they ought to accept the compromise subject to further clarification of the details.

Precisely. They can take it as a win and tell everyone how they won this through the blood and sacrifice of all the poor unwashed masses and more importantly, the red shirt leaders. We can then all move on and rebuild.

[jdinasia]

There is no question the democrats dissolution will come and Abhisit will get banned from politics for 5 years.

Actually that is in question. Its been reported that this not a clear cut case and the Democrats have a good defence which may prolong this investigation for up to one year, so it certainly does not look like they'll be disbanded before dissolution.

Besides why would they want to delay house dissolution if they knew full well that they would not be around to partake in the electoral process? It makes no sense.

Oh and this last bit... hehe well good luck with that

Carefully selected wise MPs with no other intention than to serve the King and the country and do good for all people. jap.gif

Agreed ... the evidence against the Dems is not clear-cut (from my understanding) like the video evidence that was submitted against PPP.

Allegations and single source circumstantial evidence will not get the Democrats disbanded. Should new evidence that the public has not been told about arise, such as evidence that money was actually paid into the Democrat account or large payments to individual Dems that are executives of the party, then it will be a different ballgame and the Dems will be history. What has been said publicly about the evidence given to the EC does not give most people much to worry about though.

The second question would be, who were party executives at the time of the alleged illegal campaign contributions? Only those that were executives at that time would be banned. It may actually affect more than one party if the Democrats are disbanded and party executives from the Dems at that time have moved to any other political party.

[jcbangkok]

"Thaksin was born fairly poor"

Maybe you should do a bit of research into Thaksin's "poor" family.

... and according to Thaksin's words, his father sold coffee at the road corners. Still, I haven't gotten any answer to my question. "Was there any coffee around that time, or what else was it?"

You rarely get answers from red supporters.

The true Thaksin experts you will find amongst the anti-reds at TVF. They know many details including special interests trivia, like information about Thaksins testicles and prostate. The real insider stuff.

Thaksin does have some very small hands (see photos) and you know what they say .... clearly this could have a huge bearing on his need to overcompensate and need to be in control to the point that he has constantly failed in his business dealings.

Somebody else can "dig into" his prostate.

[midas]

If they accept Abhisit's compromise, the Red Shirts will have succeeded through civil disobedience in making redress of their grievances a national priority and accelerated elections by 6 months. They can declare victory and use the momentum generated to reshape Parliament through the ballot box. IMO they ought to accept the compromise subject to further clarification of the details.

Oh no ! There is that dreadful word again

[Jerrytheyoung]

That's why Abhisit said in the first negotiations, bringing together people from ALL sides, government, opposition, community groups etc, for discussion on what should be in the constitution. He wants to change it for the good of ALL Thais, not just the good of one minority group, as the reds want to do.

we have to be very careful, the day is long. It is a good new: they are discussing. first in the background, then there will be the final official discussion.

Depending on the exact content of the agreement, it will be a new fresh start for Thailand (What I hope), or just a circumstancial agreement postponing part of the issues.

We have to be careful and see if the rhetorics on both sides are in line with what is inked.

Having myself been involved (long time ago) in social discussions in a conflictual situation, I suggest we do not conclude anything until we see the final version of the agreement.

Today, no speculations about what will be tomorrow: just wait and hope the best for all Thais with an in-depth reconciliation: if this is the result, the conflict will have been very worthy: cleaning years of divisions, solving rooted issues that normal circumstances will have never permit to solve.

It is in our westerner culture than from time to time a conflict is necessary to reorganise a structure: it has been admitted to me by the HR Manager of a big Company with whom I was negotiating the end of a severe conflict as Unionist leader. But it is the Asian culture to avoid conflicts and this is conducting to sclerosis and impossibilities.

Today Thailand has the opportunity of a new fresh start with a pacified and united population. I wish this outcome should be quite positive for the Future.....

Jerrytheyoung

Edited May 4, 2010 by Jerrytheyoung