PM Abhisit Announces Next Election Will Be Held On Nov 14

[pornsasi]

If they accept Abhisit's compromise, the Red Shirts will have succeeded through civil disobedience in making redress of their grievances a national priority and accelerated elections by 6 months. They can declare victory and use the momentum generated to reshape Parliament through the ballot box. IMO they ought to accept the compromise subject to further clarification of the details.

It is more then 6 months i think .

Yes i concurr . Hope the reds dont believe that they can get more by

marching again in Bkk and confronting the army which would result in lots

of suffering and the PM would say sorry i cant do much of my social

programs if you divert my attention .

Depends on PTP also to be frank

[misterjag]

If they accept Abhisit's compromise, the Red Shirts will have succeeded through civil disobedience in making redress of their grievances a national priority and accelerated elections by 6 months. They can declare victory and use the momentum generated to reshape Parliament through the ballot box. IMO they ought to accept the compromise subject to further clarification of the details.

"Civil disobedience" doesn't usually involve throwing hand grenades and shooting people.

You're confusing the black-hooded militia with the Red Shirts.

[lannarebirth]

That's why Abhisit said in the first negotiations, bringing together people from ALL sides, government, opposition, community groups etc, for discussion on what should be in the constitution. He wants to change it for the good of ALL Thais, not just the good of one minority group, as the reds want to do.

we have to be very careful, the day is long. It is a good new: they are discussing. first in the background, then there will be the final official discussion.

Depending on the exact content of the agreement, it will be a new fresh start for Thailand (What I hope), or just a circumstancial agreement postponing part of the issues.

We have to be careful and see if the rhetorics on both sides are in line with what is inked.

Having myself been involved (long time ago) in social discussions in a conflictual situation, I suggest we do not conclude anything until we see the final version of the agreement.

Today, no speculations about what will be tomorrow: just wait and hope the best for all Thais with an in-depth reconciliation: if this is the result, the conflict will have been very worthy: cleaning years of divisions, solving rooted issues that normal circumstances will have never permit to solve.

It is in our westerner culture than from time to time a conflict is necessary to reorganise a structure: it has been admitted to me by the HR Manager of a big Company with whom I was negotiating the end of a severe conflict as Unionist leader. But it is the Asian culture to avoid conflicts and this is conducting to sclerosis and impossibilities.

Today Thailand has the opportunity of a new fresh start to Thailand with a pacified and united population. I wish this outcome should be quite positive for the Future.....

Jerrytheyoung

Me too Jerry, me too.

[whybother]

If they accept Abhisit's compromise, the Red Shirts will have succeeded through civil disobedience in making redress of their grievances a national priority and accelerated elections by 6 months. They can declare victory and use the momentum generated to reshape Parliament through the ballot box. IMO they ought to accept the compromise subject to further clarification of the details.

"Civil disobedience" doesn't usually involve throwing hand grenades and shooting people.

You're confusing the black-hooded militia with the Red Shirts.

No, they are part of the red shirts.

A red shirt leader has boasted about them (Arisman). Some of them have been on the red shirt stage.

They are definitely part of the red shirts.

[gl9999]

THE NATION: Urgent: We have heard that Pheu Thai MPs are listening to a Thaksin phone-in. Awaiting more details.

If after this phone in, the Red Shirts say no, we'll all know who holds the leash to the dogs.

I do hope we're proven wrong.

[kissdani]

Not a national unity party but something like a national unity government.

An entity that should be only short time in power, on an interim basis, and with the main purpose to bring a reform of the politics on its way. To be successful it has to be done with participation of the "reds"(what probably means a goodbye to Abhisit, he kinda obstruct the way )

Look at point five of the road map:

5) The government will take actions to study the public feelings of injustice regarding to political system, especially after what happened over last few years, and try to solve the problems.

Solve the problem - that is the big reform that will coming. It is obvious that it cannot be done only by the current government, only with its current coalition partners, but must include all members of the parliament.

The dissolution of the democrats and its ex members joining a new party, and a fair share will join the 'yellow' party will bring also the PAD into the big parliamentarian boat where everybody works on a reform.

Temocrats dissolution is a big chance and the best way to bring reforms on its way. A reform you can call New Politics, nothing wrong with, the PAD wasn't the best tool to introduce it and a lot of people got it wrong, but actually is New Politics a good thing.

Otherwise nothing will change.

That's why Abhisit said in the first negotiations, bringing together people from ALL sides, government, opposition, community groups etc, for discussion on what should be in the constitution. He wants to change it for the good of ALL Thais, not just the good of one minority group, as the reds want to do.

The problem is that Abhisit is just words, words come easy as his smirk in the face. He failed to bring ALL together. About the circumstances that brought him into power can be said he got lucky. 'Karma' has given him a chance, but he spoiled it or was not able to do it. To be the PM is not just a technical question, that you have the most MPs behind you, a good leader needs also a certain aura to be the MAN.

Don't judge him be his words, he talks and promise so much, look at his actions, the results of his work and his success. It is more than a tiny small minority in Thailand he could not convince.

He tried hard but he isn't somebody who can inspire the people.

The last weeks have been a total fiasco and disappointment.

[lannarebirth]

THE NATION: Urgent: We have heard that Pheu Thai MPs are listening to a Thaksin phone-in. Awaiting more details.

If after this phone in, the Red Shirts say no, we'll all know who holds the leash to the dogs.

I do hope we're proven wrong.

Thaksin = PTP = UDD = red shirt = black shirt. Not exactly what you'd call the "loyal opposition" that a democratic government demands.

[bkkjames]

Not a national unity party but something like a national unity government.

An entity that should be only short time in power, on an interim basis, and with the main purpose to bring a reform of the politics on its way. To be successful it has to be done with participation of the "reds"(what probably means a goodbye to Abhisit, he kinda obstruct the way )

Look at point five of the road map:

5) The government will take actions to study the public feelings of injustice regarding to political system, especially after what happened over last few years, and try to solve the problems.

Solve the problem - that is the big reform that will coming. It is obvious that it cannot be done only by the current government, only with its current coalition partners, but must include all members of the parliament.

The dissolution of the democrats and its ex members joining a new party, and a fair share will join the 'yellow' party will bring also the PAD into the big parliamentarian boat where everybody works on a reform.

Temocrats dissolution is a big chance and the best way to bring reforms on its way. A reform you can call New Politics, nothing wrong with, the PAD wasn't the best tool to introduce it and a lot of people got it wrong, but actually is New Politics a good thing.

Otherwise nothing will change.

That's why Abhisit said in the first negotiations, bringing together people from ALL sides, government, opposition, community groups etc, for discussion on what should be in the constitution. He wants to change it for the good of ALL Thais, not just the good of one minority group, as the reds want to do.

The problem is that Abhisit is just words, words come easy as his smirk in the face. He failed to bring ALL together. About the circumstances that brought him into power can be said he got lucky. 'Karma' has given him a chance, but he spoiled it or was not able to do it. To be the PM is not just a technical question, that you have the most MPs behind you, a good leader needs also a certain aura to be the MAN.

Don't judge him be his words, he talks and promise so much, look at his actions, the results of his work and his success. It is more than a tiny small minority in Thailand he could not convince.

He tried hard but he isn't somebody who can inspire the people.

The last weeks have been a total fiasco and disappointment.

Why don't you wait until the Red Leaders accept the proposal before you start campaigning. Any thoughts on who your choice for PM would be?

[quiksilva]

Thaksin is calling PT now, and on the face of it, it sounds... gulp... positive!

# tulsathit

Thaksin: "Everything's far beyond me now. I'm just a little piece in the red shirts movement" (via @phensasitorn )

# veen_NT

it's same old Thaksin: "Pls look at No. 3 (of road map)closely. Constructive media-don't know who write that for PM." via Phensasithorn 2 minutes ago via TweetDeck

# tulsathit

Thaksin: "I'm in good health. Tomrrw is auspicious day so it will be good if we can have reconciliation." (via Neaw_NBC)

Edited May 4, 2010 by quiksilva

[truefreedom]

FASCISM EMERGES IN THAILAND

It is high time that we face up to the fact that the UDD Red Shirt movement and its political brother the Puea Thai Party, represent an obvious expression of fascism. We should all stop “beating around the bush” and publicly recognize this overt threat to true Democracy.

Fascism

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Fascists believe that a nation is an organic community that requires strong leadership, singular collective identity, and the will and ability to commit violence and wage war in order to keep the nation strong.[15] They claim that culture is created by collective national society and its state, that cultural ideas are what give individuals identity, and thus rejects individualism.[15] In viewing the nation as an integrated collective community, they claim that pluralism is a dysfunctional aspect of society, and justify a totalitarian state as a means to represent the nation in its entirety.[16][17] They advocate the creation of a single-party state.[18] Fascist governments forbid and suppress openness and opposition to the fascist state and the fascist movement.[19] They identify violence and war as actions that create national regeneration, spirit and vitality.[20]

Fascists reject and resist autonomy of cultural or ethnic groups who are not considered part of the fascists' nation and who refuse to assimilate or are unable to be assimilated.[21] They consider attempts to create such autonomy as an affront and threat to the nation.[21]

History and common sense tells us that you cannot appease, negotiate, reconcile, or compromise with fascists because they do not respect other points of view and cannot be trusted to adhere to agreements that are contrary to their core beliefs (ie. allowing unimpeded electoral campaigning).

Those who are entrusted to preserving the democratic state need to remove all such threats to society. As such, the UDD and the Puea Thai Party should be banned, dissolved, and designated as illegal entities and their leaders should be arrested and put in jail for terrorist actions, and treason.

True Democracy must be vigorously defended! A minority of ill-intentioned individuals or organizations must not be allowed to break the law and use violence and threats to usurp the rights of all good law-abiding citizens.

[pornsasi]

If they accept Abhisit's compromise, the Red Shirts will have succeeded through civil disobedience in making redress of their grievances a national priority and accelerated elections by 6 months. They can declare victory and use the momentum generated to reshape Parliament through the ballot box. IMO they ought to accept the compromise subject to further clarification of the details.

"Civil disobedience" doesn't usually involve throwing hand grenades and shooting people.

You're confusing the black-hooded militia with the Red Shirts.

No, they are part of the red shirts.

A red shirt leader has boasted about them (Arisman). Some of them have been on the red shirt stage.

They are definitely part of the red shirts.

Could be also according to few accounts that i posted in another thread

the following scenario :

Army soldiers pro-red & police shooting or beeing shot at by Prem's boys i.e

other soldiers .

[jdinasia]

If they accept Abhisit's compromise, the Red Shirts will have succeeded through civil disobedience in making redress of their grievances a national priority and accelerated elections by 6 months. They can declare victory and use the momentum generated to reshape Parliament through the ballot box. IMO they ought to accept the compromise subject to further clarification of the details.

"Civil disobedience" doesn't usually involve throwing hand grenades and shooting people.

You're confusing the black-hooded militia with the Red Shirts.

Not at all --- the black shirted "Ronin" are Sae Daeng's creatures by his own public admission. Sae daeng is a Thaksin associate and a red shirt leader. The red shirt guards disregarded directions from other red shirt leaders to listen to Sae Daeng about the barricades blocking access to Chulalongkorn Memorial Hospital.

If A=B and B=C then A=C.

[noahvail]

Serious question: who or what group in Thailand is empowered to grant amnesty?

[whybother]

"Civil disobedience" doesn't usually involve throwing hand grenades and shooting people.

You're confusing the black-hooded militia with the Red Shirts.

No, they are part of the red shirts.

A red shirt leader has boasted about them (Arisman). Some of them have been on the red shirt stage.

They are definitely part of the red shirts.

Could be also according to few accounts that i posted in another thread

the following scenario :

Army soldiers pro-red & police shooting or beeing shot at by Prem's boys i.e

other soldiers .

Still reds, amongst the reds. They are not "fake reds".

[gl9999]

The problem is that Abhisit is just words, words come easy as his smirk in the face. He failed to bring ALL together. About the circumstances that brought him into power can be said he got lucky. 'Karma' has given him a chance, but he spoiled it or was not able to do it. To be the PM is not just a technical question, that you have the most MPs behind you, a good leader needs also a certain aura to be the MAN.

Don't judge him be his words, he talks and promise so much, look at his actions, the results of his work and his success. It is more than a tiny small minority in Thailand he could not convince.

He tried hard but he isn't somebody who can inspire the people.

The last weeks have been a total fiasco and disappointment.

The man has done a good job under such difficult circumstances and I truly believe he is sincere in this compromise. I was one of the many people who cursed him for not sending the troops in and breaking up the protest. I was of the many people so sick about the 'please have patience' speeches he kept throwing out during the weeks the animals held Bangkok hostage. But last night, the man won me over and I think this compromise is a win for everyone.

Of course there are lot of haters like you out there who want this to fail. You guys don't want free elections or 'democracy' if you even understand what that is. You guys just want an outright win for your side, not a win for both sides. If the red shirts are smart, they hopefully don't think this way. If they do, then when the tanks roll in, they only have themselves to blame for the bloodbath.

[Jerrytheyoung]

Serious question: who or what group in Thailand is empowered to grant amnesty?

To end such a conflict a Law endorsed by all Parties should be voted and I suppose endorsed by the Higher level.

[pornsasi]

Thaksin is calling PT now, and on the face of it, it sounds... gulp... positive!

# tulsathit

Thaksin: "Everything's far beyond me now. I'm just a little piece in the red shirts movement" (via @phensasitorn )

# veen_NT

it's same old Thaksin: "Pls look at No. 3 (of road map)closely. Constructive media-don't know who write that for PM." via Phensasithorn 2 minutes ago via TweetDeck

# tulsathit

Thaksin: "I'm in good health. Tomrrw is auspicious day so it will be good if we can have reconciliation." (via Neaw_NBC)

That + Thailand considering amnesty for red shirt leaders + Thaksin seeing himself back to Thailand end of the year .

ummmm do i see the beginning of a pattern here ?

[pornsasi]

Still reds, amongst the reds. They are not "fake reds".

Not what i meant , I meant pro-red soldiers facing the reds on

the governement side .

[Jerrytheyoung]

The problem is that Abhisit is just words, words come easy as his smirk in the face. He failed to bring ALL together. About the circumstances that brought him into power can be said he got lucky. 'Karma' has given him a chance, but he spoiled it or was not able to do it. To be the PM is not just a technical question, that you have the most MPs behind you, a good leader needs also a certain aura to be the MAN.

Don't judge him be his words, he talks and promise so much, look at his actions, the results of his work and his success. It is more than a tiny small minority in Thailand he could not convince.

He tried hard but he isn't somebody who can inspire the people.

The last weeks have been a total fiasco and disappointment.

The man has done a good job under such difficult circumstances and I truly believe he is sincere in this compromise. I was one of the many people who cursed him for not sending the troops in and breaking up the protest. I was of the many people so sick about the 'please have patience' speeches he kept throwing out during the weeks the animals held Bangkok hostage. But last night, the man won me over and I think this compromise is a win for everyone.

Of course there are lot of haters like you out there who want this to fail. You guys don't want free elections or 'democracy' if you even understand what that is. You guys just want an outright win for your side, not a win for both sides. If the red shirts are smart, they hopefully don't think this way. If they do, then when the tanks roll in, they only have themselves to blame for the bloodbath.

As I have already written, today is a very long day with a lot of discussions in the background. Only when it will be inked and accepted by all parties, an opinion can be given on what has been done: too early to say more...wait and see if it is not empty content words, but it looks like a positive rhetoric, a start of discussion...wait the result.

[rabo]

If they accept Abhisit's compromise, the Red Shirts will have succeeded through civil disobedience in making redress of their grievances a national priority and accelerated elections by 6 months. They can declare victory and use the momentum generated to reshape Parliament through the ballot box. IMO they ought to accept the compromise subject to further clarification of the details.

And I'm sure they will claim some kind of victory, but the tide has turned and few will care.\

In Thailand, a lie need only be good enough that others can pretend to believe it without losing face.

[misterjag]

If they accept Abhisit's compromise, the Red Shirts will have succeeded through civil disobedience in making redress of their grievances a national priority and accelerated elections by 6 months. They can declare victory and use the momentum generated to reshape Parliament through the ballot box. IMO they ought to accept the compromise subject to further clarification of the details.

"Civil disobedience" doesn't usually involve throwing hand grenades and shooting people.

You're confusing the black-hooded militia with the Red Shirts.

Not at all --- the black shirted "Ronin" are Sae Daeng's creatures by his own public admission. Sae daeng is a Thaksin associate and a red shirt leader. The red shirt guards disregarded directions from other red shirt leaders to listen to Sae Daeng about the barricades blocking access to Chulalongkorn Memorial Hospital.

If A=B and B=C then A=C.

The grenade attacks could be the responsibility of multiple groups with different agendas.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Mystery-Atta...uc-t351627.html

[whybother]

Democrats Party Advisor Denies Knowledge of PM Roadmap

Former PM and chief advisor to the Democrat Party Chuan Leekpai has denied knowledge of the roadmap proposed by PM Abhisit Vejjajiva on May 3. The PM proposed that a new round of elections be held on November 14. Chuan, instead, has urged PM Abhisit not to bow to anti-government protesters' pressure and called for an early House dissolution.

-- Tan Network 2010-05-04

"NOT to bow to ... pressure" and "called for ... house dissolution".

He can't be saying both of these.

[rabo]

Thaksin response to Abhist road map?

Nice one. You want me to translate this too?

I thought this was pretty dam_n funny but Thais with little understanding of editing videos have cried laughing when they see this.

My wife has demanded I put a copy of this on her computer (no internet). Does anyone know a downloadable version of the clip or how to store it from flashplayer?

Thanks.

[jdinasia]

Not a national unity party but something like a national unity government.

An entity that should be only short time in power, on an interim basis, and with the main purpose to bring a reform of the politics on its way. To be successful it has to be done with participation of the "reds"(what probably means a goodbye to Abhisit, he kinda obstruct the way )

Look at point five of the road map:

5) The government will take actions to study the public feelings of injustice regarding to political system, especially after what happened over last few years, and try to solve the problems.

Solve the problem - that is the big reform that will coming. It is obvious that it cannot be done only by the current government, only with its current coalition partners, but must include all members of the parliament.

The dissolution of the democrats and its ex members joining a new party, and a fair share will join the 'yellow' party will bring also the PAD into the big parliamentarian boat where everybody works on a reform.

Temocrats dissolution is a big chance and the best way to bring reforms on its way. A reform you can call New Politics, nothing wrong with, the PAD wasn't the best tool to introduce it and a lot of people got it wrong, but actually is New Politics a good thing.

Otherwise nothing will change.

That's why Abhisit said in the first negotiations, bringing together people from ALL sides, government, opposition, community groups etc, for discussion on what should be in the constitution. He wants to change it for the good of ALL Thais, not just the good of one minority group, as the reds want to do.

The problem is that Abhisit is just words, words come easy as his smirk in the face. He failed to bring ALL together. About the circumstances that brought him into power can be said he got lucky. 'Karma' has given him a chance, but he spoiled it or was not able to do it. To be the PM is not just a technical question, that you have the most MPs behind you, a good leader needs also a certain aura to be the MAN.

Don't judge him be his words, he talks and promise so much, look at his actions, the results of his work and his success. It is more than a tiny small minority in Thailand he could not convince.

He tried hard but he isn't somebody who can inspire the people.

The last weeks have been a total fiasco and disappointment.

Huh?

Abhisit has done more for sustainable change in Thailand than anyone else ever has! He took the failed 30 baht health scheme and made it free and increased funding. He made education actually free. He created a debt-relief plan to solve the problems created by Thaksin's loans (that were designed to create a client/Patron dynamic with the rural poor and Thaksin.) He has come up with a taxation plan that hits only landowners that hold on to tracts of undeveloped land. (Flying in the face of claims that he is in the pocket of the elite, since only the 'elite' own large tracts of undeveloped land. In fact I can tell you that people around Chiang Mai that have been sitting on land that is undeveloped have started looking at ways to develop it, which will avoid the taxes proposed AND add to the tax base by providing work and business tax.

I really do understand that those that are diyed-in-the-wool Thaksin fans have to demonize Abhisit. The difference in public image between a convicted felon that abused his power as PM and ran away from a jail-term compared to someone that actually wants sustainable change for Thai people! It must hurt a lot!

[jdinasia]

Not at all --- the black shirted "Ronin" are Sae Daeng's creatures by his own public admission. Sae daeng is a Thaksin associate and a red shirt leader. The red shirt guards disregarded directions from other red shirt leaders to listen to Sae Daeng about the barricades blocking access to Chulalongkorn Memorial Hospital.

If A=B and B=C then A=C.

The grenade attacks could be the responsibility of multiple groups with different agendas.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Mystery-Atta...uc-t351627.html

while anything IS possible .... Occam's razor would suggest Sae daeng's ronin. You can't convict someone on that but you can convict Sae Daeng on his public statements about grenades and the attacks.

[chuang]

Can't see the red leaders getting Amnesty the PM has been firm on this he wants people charged and investigations to continue.

What a load of shit.......the yellow shirts occupied the the parliment house and shut down the airport, his foreign minister is a core leader of PAD involved in the airport closure...why no action taken yet as Abishit has promised...

[kissdani]

There is no question the democrats dissolution will come and Abhisit will get banned from politics for 5 years.

Actually that is in question. Its been reported that this not a clear cut case and the Democrats have a good defence which may prolong this investigation for up to one year, so it certainly does not look like they'll be disbanded before dissolution.

Besides why would they want to delay house dissolution if they knew full well that they would not be around to partake in the electoral process? It makes no sense.

Agreed ... the evidence against the Dems is not clear-cut (from my understanding) like the video evidence that was submitted against PPP.

Allegations and single source circumstantial evidence will not get the Democrats disbanded. Should new evidence that the public has not been told about arise, such as evidence that money was actually paid into the Democrat account or large payments to individual Dems that are executives of the party, then it will be a different ballgame and the Dems will be history. What has been said publicly about the evidence given to the EC does not give most people much to worry about though.

The second question would be, who were party executives at the time of the alleged illegal campaign contributions? Only those that were executives at that time would be banned. It may actually affect more than one party if the Democrats are disbanded and party executives from the Dems at that time have moved to any other political party.

No worry Abhisit will be banned, he was already an executive at this time.

The video in the PPP case actually didn't played a big role how the EC came to their conclusion if it had played any role at all. It was the account of a witness who delivered the EC and the court all the evidence they needed.

Just study they dissolution cases of the PPP and the other parties and you will be convinced that the democrats will meet no other fate, but the same = dissolution. The court is firm and fair.

To belief otherwise is a clear sign that you are lacking/missing information and knowledge.

[Tigs]

Thaksin response to Abhist road map?

Nice one. You want me to translate this too?

I thought this was pretty dam_n funny but Thais with little understanding of editing videos have cried laughing when they see this.

My wife has demanded I put a copy of this on her computer (no internet). Does anyone know a downloadable version of the clip or how to store it from flashplayer?

Thanks.

Go to a site called 'savetube', enter the address of the youtube video and press download!

[whybother]

Can't see the red leaders getting Amnesty the PM has been firm on this he wants people charged and investigations to continue.

What a load of shit.......the yellow shirts occupied the the parliment house and shut down the airport, his foreign minister is a core leader of PAD involved in the airport closure...why no action taken yet as Abishit has promised...

Oh ... people!! Read!!

The yellow shirts have been charged, and are awaiting for further court proceedings.

I don't think the FM was a "core leader". He talked on stage a couple of times, though.

[gl9999]

No worry Abhisit will be banned, he was already an executive at this time.

The video in the PPP case actually didn't played a big role how the EC came to their conclusion if it had played any role at all. It was the account of a witness who delivered the EC and the court all the evidence they needed.

Just study they dissolution cases of the PPP and the other parties and you will be convinced that the democrats will meet no other fate, but the same = dissolution. The court is firm and fair.

To belief otherwise is a clear sign that you are lacking/missing information and knowledge.

Keep telling yourself that. I've already said this, the courts here rule where the wind blows. It's sad for the country but a sad fact.