Is Thaivisa Female-friendly?

[NALAK]

I do have an observation here which may seem off-topic, but I think it reflects on the issue which caused me to start this thread.

I take offense at all bashing by demographics. And, as a moderator, I take more action when I find that than perhaps for any other reason. And without knowing the facts, I probably take more action on female-bashing than any other moderator, male or female.

Yet, despite this and the fact that I started the thread, I don't think I have taken any personal hits here. Posters have disagreed with me, some very adamantly. But no one has slagged me personally except for one poster calling me naive, and that is hardly a serious hit worth noting.

Yet I have seen many posters slag two of our female moderators. And I have read posts complaining about having posts deleted by "female mods." Once again, this thread has nothing to do with moderation. But why are posters slamming our female mods and not me, the one who actually takes this closer to heart and has taken more action on it?

Consider that, please.

i was going to stay out of this one as its a no win situation with so many yellow cards being thrown around, i did not know you existed as mod, the only reason i notice a mod is buy the wording of the mods posts and the amount of posts they close down. its not difficult to work out who you are reffering to and yes they do stop me posting on here. it is always said that a good referee is one who people go away from the match not knowing who the referee was, you are obviously are in that catergory. ask anybody about the subject you raised and the same 2 names will always come out. wording could be better,we are after all the customers of the sponsors, and therfore the hand that feeds. a comment like i close down posts to irritate them is not good and well only build up more predudice.

before any warnings are dished out a mod asked the question about moderation not me. as an ex sumuian i stopped posting for years. Roo has changed that. do i expect to be victimised because of this post, yes i do

Edited May 4, 2010 by NALAK

[Tywais]

I just thought that if the gender was shown in the member info next to the posts,

Just click on the member name next to the post and if they have selected it in their profile it will show which gender they are on the top icon. Blue = boy, Pink = Girl.

[tgw]

I just thought that if the gender was shown in the member info next to the posts, it could encourage posters to be more polite towards female posters.

This would be a truly biased situation. I liken it to Kow Towing to people of a perceived 'higher class'. It is nothing but extreme discrimination.

If a minimum amount of respect is shown by a human toward another, then gender, race, sexual preference etc does not immediately come into the equation. These things emerge later & at which point in time, may alter the conversation.

Interesting idea, and I'm glad someone is considering the issue seriously.  But I think I tend to agree with elkangorito, especially when he wrote this:

If a minimum amount of respect is shown by a human toward another, then gender, race, sexual preference etc does not immediately come into the equation

I think many posters are not even conscious that their posts will also be read by women.

They think they are talking with a (male) buddy at the bar.

And regarding gender, race and sexual preference not falling into the equation, I think it is just naive, wishful, irrealist & idealist thinking.

Definitely not how 90% of humanity functions right now.

[elkangorito]

I reckon that if a poster initially & unreasonably 'targets' someone, with regard to race, gender, sexual preference etc, it is 'out of bounds'.

On the other hand, if a poster reveals certain things about themselves that may indicate a bias that is unusual, their comments may also be 'out of bounds'.

E.g. A gay poster who hates or strongly dislikes non-gay people. This is only 1 example but the list is long.

[tgw]

I just thought that if the gender was shown in the member info next to the posts,

Just click on the member name next to the post and if they have selected it in their profile it will show which gender they are on the top icon. Blue = boy, Pink = Girl.

who does the click, especially when reading a thread? I don't.

[elkangorito]

I think many posters are not even conscious that their posts will also be read by women.

They think they are talking with a (male) buddy at the bar.

And regarding gender, race and sexual preference not falling into the equation, I think it is just naive, wishful, irrealist & idealist thinking.

Definitely not how 90% of humanity functions right now.

Obviously, you do not 'moderate' 90% of the posts on your forum.

[bonobo]

I think many posters are not even conscious that their posts will also be read by women.

They think they are talking with a (male) buddy at the bar.

That is probably a valid point.

[Tywais]

I just thought that if the gender was shown in the member info next to the posts,

Just click on the member name next to the post and if they have selected it in their profile it will show which gender they are on the top icon. Blue = boy, Pink = Girl.

who does the click, especially when reading a thread? I don't.

I gave an answer to the above, up to you to use it or not.

[tgw]

I just thought that if the gender was shown in the member info next to the posts, it could encourage posters to be more polite towards female posters.

This would be a truly biased situation. I liken it to Kow Towing to people of a perceived 'higher class'. It is nothing but extreme discrimination.

If a minimum amount of respect is shown by a human toward another, then gender, race, sexual preference etc does not immediately come into the equation. These things emerge later & at which point in time, may alter the conversation.

I quote this post again because of the first part about Kow Towing.

The women themselves WANT a biased situation (or their defenders).

I feel most male posters here want to be able to freely slag women off.

Then the women stay away from the forum because of the "negative atmosphere", female mods take offense and Bonobo wonders what could be done about the situation.

The men's natural answer would be: "well, you women are also welcome to slag us men off".

But no, that isn't good enough, the whole forum has to be polite.

hmmm... 90% of male posters holding their horses back because of the 10% of women.

what's wrong now with that picture?

Politeness is more a female thing.

Most male posters can cope with some crude language and won't make a drama about a female poster labeling them "fat, bald and old".

Edited May 4, 2010 by tgw

[elkangorito]

Just click on the member name next to the post and if they have selected it in their profile it will show which gender they are on the top icon. Blue = boy, Pink = Girl.

This is not true for all members. If they wish to show their gender, they may...or may not.

Or they may lie.

[tgw]

I think many posters are not even conscious that their posts will also be read by women.

They think they are talking with a (male) buddy at the bar.

And regarding gender, race and sexual preference not falling into the equation, I think it is just naive, wishful, irrealist & idealist thinking.

Definitely not how 90% of humanity functions right now.

Obviously, you do not 'moderate' 90% of the posts on your forum.

I read every single post on my forums.

I have more than 100k members which I moderate alone (thank god they are not all active, otherwise I couldn't do it).

Edited May 4, 2010 by tgw

[elkangorito]

I just thought that if the gender was shown in the member info next to the posts, it could encourage posters to be more polite towards female posters.

This would be a truly biased situation. I liken it to Kow Towing to people of a perceived 'higher class'. It is nothing but extreme discrimination.

If a minimum amount of respect is shown by a human toward another, then gender, race, sexual preference etc does not immediately come into the equation. These things emerge later & at which point in time, may alter the conversation.

I quote this post again because of the first part about Kow Towing.

The women themselves WANT a biased situation (or their defenders).

I feel most male posters here want to be able to freely slag women off.

Then the women stay away from the forum because of the "negative atmosphere", female mods take offense and Bonobo wonders what could be done about the situation.

The men's natural answer would be: "well, you women are also welcome to slag us men off".

But no, that isn't good enough, the whole forum has to be politically correct.

hmmm... 90% of male posters holding their horses back because of the 10% of women.

what's wrong now with that picture?

Political correctness is a female thing.

Most male posters can cope with some crude language and won't make a drama about a female poster labeling them "fat, bald and old".

I now understand

BTW, I believe that 'time constraints' should not be a factor in this equation.

Edited May 4, 2010 by elkangorito

[bonobo]

And regarding gender, race and sexual preference not falling into the equation, I think it is just naive, wishful, irrealist & idealist thinking.

Definitely not how 90% of humanity functions right now.

 

But most people learn to withhold prejudicial comments despite any leanings they might have in that direction.  That is how we manage to function as a society.

On the other hand, as one posters posted quite a few hours ago, he feels emboldened to post whatever he wants when he is protected by a computer screen.  I am rather disappointed in that attitude, but I don't think he is unique in that regard.

I doubt very much that many men would go to a family reunion and slag all women in general in front of his mother, sister, aunt, grandmother, daughter, etc.  So I am perplexed why it is OK to do that while typing on a keyboard.  I know some men evidently feel it is OK, but I take issue with that.  Courtesy is courtesy.

[Boo]

female posters have no wish to slag off the men here, you aren't generally even in our sphere of thought, which makes it even more interesting that the women who are so hated are in the minds of the men who claim to dislike them so much.

I will even go so far as to claim that if those who have such an issue with me (and sbk it seems) didn't know I was a woman, would my posting style bother you so much? I doubt it very much. By the pure fact that I am a woman makes many posters perceive my posts in a negative way. funny that. That is my opinion & based on some of the posts on here & elsewhere, I believe it to be very very true.

So I suggest, next time you get a warning from me or read one of my post imagine I am a 60 year old 6ft5in biker & see how your mind copes with that imagery

[tgw]

And regarding gender, race and sexual preference not falling into the equation, I think it is just naive, wishful, irrealist & idealist thinking.

Definitely not how 90% of humanity functions right now.

 

But most people learn to withhold prejudicial comments despite any leanings they might have in that direction.  That is how we manage to function as a society.

On the other hand, as one posters posted quite a few hours ago, he feels emboldened to post whatever he wants when he is protected by a computer screen.  I am rather disappointed in that attitude, but I don't think he is unique in that regard.

I doubt very much that many men would go to a family reunion and slag all women in general in front of his mother, sister, aunt, grandmother, daughter, etc.  So I am perplexed why it is OK to do that while typing on a keyboard.  I know some men evidently feel it is OK, but I take issue with that.  Courtesy is courtesy.

Easy - one has to chose between truth and courtesy.

With mommy, aunties and grannies around, one fears the social consequences of speaking his mind, so courtesy wins over truth.

On a forum, there are no consequences to be feared, truth wins.

And truth is very often quite ugly, especially in what it says about the person making his "true" statements.

Edited May 4, 2010 by tgw

[Tywais]

Just click on the member name next to the post and if they have selected it in their profile it will show which gender they are on the top icon. Blue = boy, Pink = Girl.

This is not true for all members. If they wish to show their gender, they may...or may not.

Or they may lie.

Selective reading? Note above, "if they have selected it in their profile". The point of lying about gender has already been addressed and of course applies.

[elkangorito]

I doubt very much that many men would go to a family reunion and slag all women in general in front of his mother, sister, aunt, grandmother, daughter, etc.  So I am perplexed why it is OK to do that while typing on a keyboard.  I know some men evidently feel it is OK, but I take issue with that.  Courtesy is courtesy.

If the 'computer screen' is used as a tool of bigotry, then why can't it also be used to 'outwit' the perceived bigot? I say let all the bigots expose themselves for what they are. There are plenty of people here who are more than able/capable of 'outwitting' them.

[elkangorito]

Just click on the member name next to the post and if they have selected it in their profile it will show which gender they are on the top icon. Blue = boy, Pink = Girl.

This is not true for all members. If they wish to show their gender, they may...or may not.

Or they may lie.

Selective reading? Note above, "if they have selected it in their profile". The point of lying about gender has already been addressed and of course applies.

Silly me

[bonobo]

I just thought that if the gender was shown in the member info next to the posts, it could encourage posters to be more polite towards female posters.

This would be a truly biased situation. I liken it to Kow Towing to people of a perceived 'higher class'. It is nothing but extreme discrimination.

If a minimum amount of respect is shown by a human toward another, then gender, race, sexual preference etc does not immediately come into the equation. These things emerge later & at which point in time, may alter the conversation.

I quote this post again because of the first part about Kow Towing.

The women themselves WANT a biased situation (or their defenders).

I feel most male posters here want to be able to freely slag women off.

Then the women stay away from the forum because of the "negative atmosphere", female mods take offense and Bonobo wonders what could be done about the situation.

The men's natural answer would be: "well, you women are also welcome to slag us men off".

But no, that isn't good enough, the whole forum has to be polite.

hmmm... 90% of male posters holding their horses back because of the 10% of women.

what's wrong now with that picture?

Politeness is more a female thing.

Most male posters can cope with some crude language and won't make a drama about a female poster labeling them "fat, bald and old".

All I can say as I read your post is that one of us is way off base, and I hope it is you.

Most men want to "slag off women?"  I just don't see it.  I see some men wanting to do so, but most men I know rather want to be on a woman or women's good side.  We rather like women.  We like our sisters, our mothers, our daughters, our wives, our girlfriends.  

Then again, I could be living an a fairy tale and you are right.  If that is the case, then the fact of the matter that "slagging" any demographic group is not only against ThaiVisa posting regulations, it is just rude and not in keeping with how the civilized world interacts with each other.  When barriers break down, so does society.

I don't know what "most male posters" feel as I am not a mind reader.  But from the thousands and thousands of posts I have read, I really think that I am more correct than you in this.  I certainly hope so, because if you are correct, then that is a pretty sad commentary about us.

[Ijustwannateach]

Bonobo, I tried to write a post slagging you off, but I couldn't go further than the first line.

But maybe this will do:

I actually witnessed your moderation actions in some threads, and I thought you were a feminist woman.

Maybe other posters also don't know that you are male and therefore complain about their posts being deleted by "female mods"?

OK, point taken!  

I haven't seen you receive such a noble compliment in quite a while, but you are certainly deserving!

I would also comment that Bonobo has been one of the most active straight male mods in keeping homophobic comments off the board (the rest of the guys are pretty good, too, but Bonobo goes the extra mile!).

[elkangorito]

female posters have no wish to slag off the men here, you aren't generally even in our sphere of thought, which makes it even more interesting that the women who are so hated are in the minds of the men who claim to dislike them so much.

I will even go so far as to claim that if those who have such an issue with me (and sbk it seems) didn't know I was a woman, would my posting style bother you so much? I doubt it very much. By the pure fact that I am a woman makes many posters perceive my posts in a negative way. funny that. That is my opinion & based on some of the posts on here & elsewhere, I believe it to be very very true.

So I suggest, next time you get a warning from me or read one of my post imagine I am a 60 year old 6ft5in biker & see how your mind copes with that imagery

Touchy

[Boo]

ummm, no. Touchy how. I have stated my opinion of what I think the problem is with most of the men who go on & on & on about me & sbk, they are invariably always the posters who have some warning about making nasty comments about women. There is a very valid connection so I am offering them a way to let go of their issues & enjoy the forum better.

[tgw]

Most men want to "slag off women?" I just don't see it. I see some men wanting to do so, but most men I know rather want to be on a woman or women's good side. We rather like women. We like our sisters, our mothers, our daughters, our wives, our girlfriends.

I wrote "most men want to be able to freely slag off women"

My point is about free speech, not about slagging women off.

I believe they want to be able to speak rudely (=manly?? for some) about anything they want to praise, criticize, slag off...

I should have expressed that point better.

English is my third language, and I sometimes don't put things properly in sentences.

What I want to say is that posters (90% men) probably want to be able to use what they regard as being "their language".

And then it happens that many of these posters prefer asian women, and had negative experiences with western women, and they write about that and their feelings in an abusive manner.

Edited May 4, 2010 by tgw

[elkangorito]

ummm, no. Touchy how. I have stated my opinion of what I think the problem is with most of the men who go on & on & on about me & sbk, they are invariably always the posters who have some warning about making nasty comments about women. There is a very valid connection so I am offering them a way to let go of their issues & enjoy the forum better.

Geez Boo!!! Get a grip!!! I was having a joke.

If I didn't have the hide of "Jessie the elephant', would I be here now? I think not.

Ya know, this is really all about people not acknowledgeing the old saying;

"Sticks and stones can break your bones & names (not personal pictures) can never hurt you."

My grandmother taught me that & I will never forget it.

Of course, this is only true if one CHOOSES to not let 'names' (words on a computer screen) upset them. If one does choose to be upset, so be it.

[Boo]

I've already stated that these comments do not bother me but that doesn't mean they should be allowed to remain on the forum as they are 1) against the rules 2) offensive to many, male & female alike & 3) as has already been discussed, it is basic manners & courtesy at play here.

[mark45y]

female posters have no wish to slag off the men here, you aren't generally even in our sphere of thought, which makes it even more interesting that the women who are so hated are in the minds of the men who claim to dislike them so much.

I will even go so far as to claim that if those who have such an issue with me (and sbk it seems) didn't know I was a woman, would my posting style bother you so much? I doubt it very much. By the pure fact that I am a woman makes many posters perceive my posts in a negative way. funny that. That is my opinion & based on some of the posts on here & elsewhere, I believe it to be very very true.

So I suggest, next time you get a warning from me or read one of my post imagine I am a 60 year old 6ft5in biker & see how your mind copes with that imagery

The greatest insult is to ignore someone.

[elkangorito]

I've already stated that these comments do not bother me but that doesn't mean they should be allowed to remain on the forum as they are 1) against the rules 2) offensive to many, male & female alike & 3) as has already been discussed, it is basic manners & courtesy at play here.

I guess it's up to you then, isn't it?

[elkangorito]

The greatest insult is to ignore someone.

No it's not.

[bonobo]

I wrote "most men want to be able to freely slag off women"

OK, I guess you did write that.  I read it wrong. Mea culpa.

My point is about free speech, not about slagging women off.

I believe they want to be able to speak rudely (=manly?? for some) about anything they want to praise, criticize, slag off...

I should have expressed that point better.

English is my third language, and I sometimes don't put things properly in sentences.

What I want to say is that posters (90% men) probably want to be able to use what they regard as being "their language".

I still don't see it.  But that is my opinion.

And then it happens that many of these posters prefer asian women, and had negative experiences with western women, and they write about that and their feelings in an abusive manner.

But this thread is not solely about Western women.  And if what you write above is true, then why so much abuse towards Thai women?

[somtampet]

female posters have no wish to slag off the men here, you aren't generally even in our sphere of thought, which makes it even more interesting that the women who are so hated are in the minds of the men who claim to dislike them so much.

I will even go so far as to claim that if those who have such an issue with me (and sbk it seems) didn't know I was a woman, would my posting style bother you so much? I doubt it very much. By the pure fact that I am a woman makes many posters perceive my posts in a negative way. funny that. That is my opinion & based on some of the posts on here & elsewhere, I believe it to be very very true.

So I suggest, next time you get a warning from me or read one of my post imagine I am a 60 year old 6ft5in biker & see how your mind copes with that imagery

Maybe some posters didnt know,god only knows why,but the style of the posts made me think within seconds that you were a woman and maybe a couple of minutes for SBK.