Thailand To Consider Amnesty For Red-Shirts Leaders

[TheOldWolf]

Bangkok Post is not banned here. They don´t allow links. Have nothing to do with TV

[elcent]

I haven't seen the PAD asking for amnesty at all .... in fact, the law may side with them on almost everything brought against them. I have seen Thaksin and Amnesty mentioned together often -- including a petition for exactly that. You blaming the PAD for 27 deaths is kinda silly.

Oh BTW --- you missed 20 PAD deaths and 1 unexplained death during the last days at Government house and the tie the PAD was at the airport.

You also missed the redshirt that died on Sept 1st/2nd when the reds attacked the PAD

You also missed the man that was beaten then murdered in Chiang Mai when the reds pulled him from the car.

There are several more ....

Because the do it via Kasit and coup leaders.

Hence the reply from the groomer(Chuan) of Abhisit. He (the poodle) has gotten hijacked already. Why you think I call him army spokesman?

Not to forget. The democrats are seeking a hidden amnesty too, coming up soon.

Edited May 4, 2010 by elcent

[h90]

NO

Veera did time back in the day for this, why should he get a pass for a second time.

and the ones who caused killings, kidnappings and hands on violence

can NEVER be given a free pass.

can NEVER?

I bet they can......the usual way....going to court...get sentenced for 10 years, appeal (spelling??) get released on bail, than noone ever hears anything about it again, the case will be delayed till everyone would be 250 years old.

[noahvail]

Just to be a bit pragmatic here....

As I recall, the most people that came together at one time in a "rally" was 120,000.

If you arrest all these, where would you put them to serve their sentences? Many prisons in Thailand are already full to overflowing.

Not to mention the idea that the 120,000 or so people might not be terribly happy about that prospect, and might just decide to come back to BKK and do some despicable acts.

So, it makes sense, from a pragmatic standpoint, to grant amnesty to those people. The article does not say that amnesty will be offered or granted to those who performed or incited to the killings, bombings, theft of weapons and so on. There may be several hundred in all. It's possible that they will be separated into groups according to crimes, have a joint trial for each group of people, and find them all guilty and sentence them. As per custom, those who plead guilty will have their sentences reduced by half.

So imho it becomes a ranking exercise: those leaders who not only incited to violence but also participated directly through acts of treason, sedition, murder, hostage-taking, etc. will be given the most severe penalties; one or two might be given the ultimate sanction. Groups whose crimes are considered lesser under the law will be given proportionately lesser sentences according to law.

This is the last stage of negotiation. The reds in effect admit defeat. The government will appear to be conciliatory towards the vast majority of the rank-and-file members of the rebellion, while not losing face by giving amnesty to all.

As far as amnesty for the yellow shirts who are currently out on bail... I wonder what our friends on ThaiVisa would say; the posters who have complained so long and bitterly about double standards. Amnesty for both groups - would it be fair?

That's for better minds than mine to decide.

Off topic: I'd really love to know if the protesters who were promised money on a daily basis actually receive what is owed them now. Just wondering...

[hazz]

An amnesty to the red shirt leaders, in exchange for promises of good behaviour is almost certainly going to be required to shut this mob down. However these people have shown themselves to suffer from selective amnesia, at best; with nothing hanging over them they are going to revert back to form way before 14th Nov.

promise them suspended sentences for anything they plead guild to in court and give full and frank confessions too, even if its murder. They get their wish of not having to serve a prison sentence, the government gets a hold on them (break your promise == unsuspected the sentence) and as convicted criminals the country gains by keeping them out of parliament.

Unfortunately we all know whats really going to happen, the usual story of: law is for little people; big people have impunity

[jamesjdaly]

If all of this does end soon, that's more of Thaksin's money thrown away!!! ha ha ha ha ha ha ha !!!

[jcbangkok]

WAKE UP ... there will be NO AMNESTY. There are simply people trying to act like heroes by negotiating behind the scenes without authority. The PM doesn't have to give amnesty and certainly isn't going to negotiate with them anymore. It is not in his interest nor the countries to really give a flying ___ what they have to say at this point except if they are going to go or not. The only thing about this road map that concerns the red mob is to provide the so-called innocent ones within the mob a final chance to leave. Yes, hopefully they all go but they are off their rocker if they think (and anyone else who thinks) they still have negotiating ability.

Folks, listen the what the PM has been saying for quite some time now. It has not changed.

[whybother]

@noahvail. Not all protestors have broken the law. Only after the SOE were the protests illegal.

[noahvail]

@noahvail. Not all protestors have broken the law. Only after the SOE were the protests illegal.

Indeed...after the SOE gatherings of 5 or more people of ill intent was against the law.

Prior to that, 30-120,000 people gathering at one place and at one time broke a small book of ordinances. The smallest of these may have been violation of large gatherings and marches without permit. Oh, wait - I misspeak. The smallest of these may have been dropping cigarette butts on the ground, subject to a 2,000 baht fine. (Insert Irony Smiley Here) These are minor, petty things...but unless they are granted amnesty, it falls back under mai pben rai - no problem, we got away with it. If they are granted amnesty, they will still know that they've been pinged - perhaps a move down the road of progress.

Edit: The last sentence is possibly a call for flames. It's an opinion, not to be construed as a statement of fact. Yes, western culture vs Thai culture: ginseng tea in a styrofoam cup.

Edited May 4, 2010 by noahvail

[frodo]

NO

Veera did time back in the day for this, why should he get a pass for a second time.

and the ones who caused killings, kidnappings and hands on violence

can NEVER be given a free pass.

I agree with that. No amnesty for the red leaders and to those protesters who committed crimes of violence, murder, weapon possession, or incited hatred. That weird Aussie dude, Conor David Purcell, should have no amnesty either.

For those who were merely protesting, sure they deserve amnesty, which would include the multi-colored shirts since they also broke the law.

Edited May 4, 2010 by frodo

[fft100]

so when will PAD people be prosecuted for occupying govt house for over 100 days, and the airport for 7 days ?

Or are double-standards still to apply ?

[h90]

NO

Veera did time back in the day for this, why should he get a pass for a second time.

and the ones who caused killings, kidnappings and hands on violence

can NEVER be given a free pass.

I agree with that. No amnesty for the red leaders and to those protesters who committed crimes of violence, murder, weapon possession, or incited hatred. That weird Aussie dude, Conor David Purcell, should have no amnesty either.

For those who were merely protesting, sure they deserve amnesty, which would include the multi-colored shirts since they also broke the law.

For the Aussie dude it might be better to ban him from entering Thailand and deport him home.

Else that nonsense..."Thailands military appointed dictator jailed an innocent peaceful fighter for democracy in the worst jail worldwide, blablabla" better send him home and forget about the diplomatic hassle.

[ozzieman05]

NO

Veera did time back in the day for this, why should he get a pass for a second time.

and the ones who caused killings, kidnappings and hands on violence

can NEVER be given a free pass.

I agree with that. No amnesty for the red leaders and to those protesters who committed crimes of violence, murder, weapon possession, or incited hatred. That weird Aussie dude, Conor David Purcell, should have no amnesty either.

For those who were merely protesting, sure they deserve amnesty, which would include the multi-colored shirts since they also broke the law.

I think you will find the majority agree with you

and his is what I have been saying for a while now

This is not about the Northern poor

but all about the red shirt thugs who think they will now et away with all there crimes

We are Taskins most loved so we are protected

It is the man on the land that must give blood no the leaders

There were those who flamed my post earlier because of my reasoning

but at least while they where flaming me they gave people like you who can think for themselves, a chance to give an opinion

[MengWan]

I suppose, if there is an amnesty, the cop who was an arms dealer for terrorists will benefit ?

I need to get hands on a UDD card fast, I want to kill someone fast before the amnesty ...

(not mentioning trafic fines, will the cops give the racket money back ?)

[h90]

so when will PAD people be prosecuted for occupying govt house for over 100 days, and the airport for 7 days ?

Or are double-standards still to apply ?

this is at court currently...

when will Thaksins mass-murdering of almost 3000 people (war against drugs) be prosecuted? It was well before the PAD even exists...

[fft100]

so when will PAD people be prosecuted for occupying govt house for over 100 days, and the airport for 7 days ?

Or are double-standards still to apply ?

this is at court currently...

when will Thaksins mass-murdering of almost 3000 people (war against drugs) be prosecuted? It was well before the PAD even exists...

Not sure i see the similarity between the PAD actions and Thaksins war on drugs.

PAD should end up in court first and then it would be the precedent for how the Reds will be treated.... But will they be in court first... that is the question.

[noahvail]

so when will PAD people be prosecuted for occupying govt house for over 100 days, and the airport for 7 days ?

Or are double-standards still to apply ?

They have been arrested, appeared in court, and are currently out on bail.

Do double-standards apply? You bet!!!!

The PAD people have not been offered amnesty, but the red shirts have. That sounds like a double-standard to me, with the red shirts on the winning side of them!

(Sheesh, I've been waiting for this day )

[quiksilva]

so when will PAD people be prosecuted for occupying govt house for over 100 days, and the airport for 7 days ?

Or are double-standards still to apply ?

They have already been charged and are currently out on bail. The prosecution however is moving ahead but going dreadfully slow, and should definitely be expedited.

So to avoid double standards then yes the reds need to face justice too.

[jcbangkok]

Unless I am mistaken, there was no law against groups of 5 of more gathering. It was just groups of 5 or more with bad intentions. If the law was groups of 5 or more then every classroom, bar, store and so on would be breaking the law.

There is not going to be amnesty but they certainly are going to use their brains about who they go after. People who leave and those who were just ignorant to the truth and taken by the rhetoric of the red leaders I am pretty sure will not be targeted.

You have got a lot of people trying to play chief and/or get their names in the history books for ending the occupation of the lawless red mob but it ain't going to happen unless they follow the guidance of the PM. The red mob is done one way or another within a week. They have nothing to offer and nothing to bargain and the PM would be foolish to pretend they did. After they go home then their voices can start to be heard again IF they act like citizens and not a criminal and violent mob.

[Steely Dan]

Bearing in mind TIT I would expect suspended sentences and revolving prison doors for the vast majority; getting away with murder is alas part of the culture it would seem. Perhaps there has been some horse trading and maneuvering behind the scenes not only amongst the 'politicians' but also the military. I wouldn't be surprised to even see some red leaders given ceremonial political positions in a face keeping exercise, which though unpalatable is what happened with the yellow shirts after all.

I would settle for all of the above if the black shirts and their sponsors are thrown in jail and Thaksin is cut loose as part of a settlement and a group action strips him of any remaining funds he has to pay for the economic sabotage he has instigated.

[jcbangkok]

so when will PAD people be prosecuted for occupying govt house for over 100 days, and the airport for 7 days ?

Or are double-standards still to apply ?

That was under different leadership and a different time. Thailand has also not gone back and prosecuted all the former corrupt PMs. You have to start somewhere and this administration is starting with actions under their leadership. Besides that, this is in the hands of prosecutors already and the PM is not a prosecutor. Also, they aren't going to be going after reds just for being part of the mob who took BKK hostage.

Yes, it would be nice if the courts sped up their actions against the yellow leaders but it is time to stop looking back and sounding like a broken record and start looking forward.

[TheOldWolf]

so when will PAD people be prosecuted for occupying govt house for over 100 days, and the airport for 7 days ?

Or are double-standards still to apply ?

That was under different leadership and a different time. Thailand has also not gone back and prosecuted all the former corrupt PMs. You have to start somewhere and this administration is starting with actions under their leadership. Besides that, this is in the hands of prosecutors already and the PM is not a prosecutor. Also, they aren't going to be going after reds just for being part of the mob who took BKK hostage.

Yes, it would be nice if the courts sped up their actions against the yellow leaders but it is time to stop looking back and sounding like a broken record and start looking forward.

I think many red leaders are on bail alreday, but I don´t know what the law state in Thailand if you commit new crimes while on bail?

[jcbangkok]

In order for Thailand to move forward ... there can be no amnesty, no rewards and sever penalties for those who blatantly broke the law when it comes to violence, hurting Thailand and the people of Thailand in an attempt to force change or overthrow the government. Elections will be meaningless unless these people are prosecuted and the people of Thailand see this is not only not the way to change but a guaranteed way to lose your freedoms and possibly life.

There has been a coup almost for every 4 year election cycle in the last 75 or so years. So, if you think the PM is serious about change then you will realize there can be NO amnesty. But they certainly are not going to go after those for simply being part of the mob unless they are still there in the coming days. The PM has made it clear over the last weeks he had a goal of clearing out all but the hardcore group from the mob to avoid injury and loss of life to those simply sucked up into this mess. So, guess what, that time is now. If the reds don't take the offer unconditionally then troops move in and the vast majority of Thailand will approve this and the PM will gain more popularity.

The reds lost. They could have walked away as winners when the PM offered this almost same exact deal when he agreed to talk to them live on TV and they refused to negotiate and instead have gone onto put 60k+ people out of work, cause untold economic damage to Thailand as well as many deaths and hundreds of injuries. All for what??? To take a deal they were offered at the start of this mess.

The lawless red mob has nothing to offer and nothing to negotiate with and the PM would only lose credibility if he talks with the anymore except to tell them how it is and how it is going to be.

[frodo]

so when will PAD people be prosecuted for occupying govt house for over 100 days, and the airport for 7 days ?

Or are double-standards still to apply ?

That was under different leadership and a different time. Thailand has also not gone back and prosecuted all the former corrupt PMs. You have to start somewhere and this administration is starting with actions under their leadership. Besides that, this is in the hands of prosecutors already and the PM is not a prosecutor. Also, they aren't going to be going after reds just for being part of the mob who took BKK hostage.

Yes, it would be nice if the courts sped up their actions against the yellow leaders but it is time to stop looking back and sounding like a broken record and start looking forward.

I think many red leaders are on bail alreday, but I don´t know what the law state in Thailand if you commit new crimes while on bail?

Good point!

In their minds they sincerely believed they would not be held responsible for anything.

THE NATION: Potential stumbling blocks: Extremists on both sides who dont wnt 2 C it end ths way, & the issue of legal action against red leaders.

Times have changed, I hope, for the better and nobody is above the law. Stick it to all them (the leaders).

[noahvail]

I think many red leaders are on bail alreday, but I don´t know what the law state in Thailand if you commit new crimes while on bail?

Your point is well taken. I don't know how it would work, but logically, if they are given amnesty for crimes while out on bail, it is the same as if the crimes had never happened. That could mean that they would still go on trial for the prior arrests.

Of course, that's just a thoughtful meandering. This is Thailand, so we'll just have to wait and see how it plays out for real.

[TAWP]

Hmmmmm....

Wasn't any mention of that "OTHER" English language newspaper Banned from this Board?????

No, using their articles and linking to their articles online is.

[jcbangkok]

so when will PAD people be prosecuted for occupying govt house for over 100 days, and the airport for 7 days ?

Or are double-standards still to apply ?

That was under different leadership and a different time. Thailand has also not gone back and prosecuted all the former corrupt PMs. You have to start somewhere and this administration is starting with actions under their leadership. Besides that, this is in the hands of prosecutors already and the PM is not a prosecutor. Also, they aren't going to be going after reds just for being part of the mob who took BKK hostage.

Yes, it would be nice if the courts sped up their actions against the yellow leaders but it is time to stop looking back and sounding like a broken record and start looking forward.

I think many red leaders are on bail alreday, but I don´t know what the law state in Thailand if you commit new crimes while on bail?

You are right and I am also ignorant to the Thai laws. I am still trying to figure out why arrest warrants needed to be issued before taking people into custody when there was a GREAT deal of probable cause these people committed crimes including things happening in the presence of police. Then there were the insane comments from authorities that seemed to indicate the police don't even have the power to arrest people setting up road blocks and searching citizens unless the Emergency Decree was in place. Then you have reds pleading guilty to crimes and being sentenced to jail AND THEN being let out on bail. To be honest with you, I am not even sure what the separation of powers are here but believe the government is not over the courts. I'm not even sure the PM can pardon people since they have a much greater authority to handle pardons. So much here seems like "lets wing it" but then all of a sudden you realize there is clear written laws that really are not adhered to. Certainly they must have laws against drunk driving and killing somebody but what seems to trump the law is if you pay off the dead person's family adequately.

Edited May 4, 2010 by jcbangkok

[rabo]

Hmmmmm....

Wasn't any mention of that "OTHER" English language newspaper Banned from this Board?????

No, using their articles and linking to their articles online is.

I think ThaiVisa is "banned" from allowing links to and direct copies of that other newspaper's content, probably for commerical reasons.

[jcbangkok]

so when will PAD people be prosecuted for occupying govt house for over 100 days, and the airport for 7 days ?

Or are double-standards still to apply ?

this is at court currently...

when will Thaksins mass-murdering of almost 3000 people (war against drugs) be prosecuted? It was well before the PAD even exists...

Not sure i see the similarity between the PAD actions and Thaksins war on drugs.

PAD should end up in court first and then it would be the precedent for how the Reds will be treated.... But will they be in court first... that is the question.

Not sure i see the similarity between the PAD and the Reds. Not only in the level of their actions but just like every else in the world ... the winners right the history books as well as typically defining such things as who were the bag guys and if we call those doing the violence freedom fighters or terrorists.

[jcbangkok]

Hmmmmm....

Wasn't any mention of that "OTHER" English language newspaper Banned from this Board?????

No, using their articles and linking to their articles online is.

I think ThaiVisa is "banned" from allowing links to and direct copies of that other newspaper's content, probably for commerical reasons.

Yes, but it is only a few. See the rules. I think the Bangkok Post, API and somebody else. You cannot quote them or provide links.