Thailand To Consider Amnesty For Red-Shirts Leaders

[toenail]

.. I am more confused than ever. This is not a government.it is a circus.

[Steely Dan]

In order for Thailand to move forward ... there can be no amnesty, no rewards and sever penalties for those who blatantly broke the law when it comes to violence, hurting Thailand and the people of Thailand in an attempt to force change or overthrow the government. Elections will be meaningless unless these people are prosecuted and the people of Thailand see this is not only not the way to change but a guaranteed way to lose your freedoms and possibly life.

There has been a coup almost for every 4 year election cycle in the last 75 or so years. So, if you think the PM is serious about change then you will realize there can be NO amnesty. But they certainly are not going to go after those for simply being part of the mob unless they are still there in the coming days. The PM has made it clear over the last weeks he had a goal of clearing out all but the hardcore group from the mob to avoid injury and loss of life to those simply sucked up into this mess. So, guess what, that time is now. If the reds don't take the offer unconditionally then troops move in and the vast majority of Thailand will approve this and the PM will gain more popularity.

The reds lost. They could have walked away as winners when the PM offered this almost same exact deal when he agreed to talk to them live on TV and they refused to negotiate and instead have gone onto put 60k+ people out of work, cause untold economic damage to Thailand as well as many deaths and hundreds of injuries. All for what??? To take a deal they were offered at the start of this mess.

The lawless red mob has nothing to offer and nothing to negotiate with and the PM would only lose credibility if he talks with the anymore except to tell them how it is and how it is going to be.

In terms of natural justice I would agree, however I think it must be recognized that Abhisit can only play with the cards he has been dealt, which included an army with factional splits below the surface and a police force who are simply mercenaries to the highest bidder, who also exhibit paralysis for fear of ending up on the losing side. Also through no fault of his own he came to power as a result of the yellow shirt actions and regrettably some yellow shirt leaders were given political power as well as escaping prosecution. My wife was happy when the yellow shirts got their way but I said at the time the manner of their victory may prove Pyrrhic due to the likelyhood of red shirts copying their tactics.

Unpalatable as it may be I suspect a certain amount of horse trading is necessary in order to diffuse understandable accusations of hypocrisy. Perhaps this is a price worth paying if Thaksin is neutralized for good.

Finally whoever wins the next election will only head up a quasi-democracy until such time as the command and control of army and police answers directly to parliament - unfortunately nobody can vote for that.

[jcbangkok]

Looks like this thread serves no purpose if you read the latest Abhisit breaking news story on the other english newspaper's site.

[frodo]

Sources said red leaders wouldn't accept Road Map rite away. They wld welcome it but wld giv govt their own clear-cut demands. (via @tistoo)

Selfishness above all. I'm sure it's all about amnesty. They never had democracy or the nation in mind to begin with, it was all about greed and their own well-being. Naturally, I am speculating about the amnesty. Terrorists really have no right to any demand anything, IMHO.

[OJAS]

Clean the slate. Amnesty for the Reds and the Yellows and we will have total peace. Only fight on election day.

I agree. It might be worth reminding ourselves that the granting of amnesties has proved a cornerstone to the success of the Northern Ireland peace process. Under the Good Friday Agreement many convicted murderers on both side of the sectarian divide were pardoned of their heinous crimes. Although this move was, quite understandably, viewed with abhorrence by the families of the victims of the republican & loyalist murdering thugs who were let off scot free, there is no escaping the fact that it has, in general, resulted in lasting peace in Northern Ireland.

Sure there remain dissident republican @®$€holes who are intent on wrecking the peace process, but their half-hearted attempts at perpetrating terrorist atrocities have in no way succeeded in upsetting the applecart. This is because what they stand for has been overwhelmingly disowned, even in previously diehard republican strongholds.

If the granting of amnesties has been shown to work in bringing lasting peace to Northern Ireland, then why not also to Thailand?

Edited May 4, 2010 by OJAS

[jcbangkok]

In order for Thailand to move forward ... there can be no amnesty, no rewards and sever penalties for those who blatantly broke the law when it comes to violence, hurting Thailand and the people of Thailand in an attempt to force change or overthrow the government. Elections will be meaningless unless these people are prosecuted and the people of Thailand see this is not only not the way to change but a guaranteed way to lose your freedoms and possibly life.

There has been a coup almost for every 4 year election cycle in the last 75 or so years. So, if you think the PM is serious about change then you will realize there can be NO amnesty. But they certainly are not going to go after those for simply being part of the mob unless they are still there in the coming days. The PM has made it clear over the last weeks he had a goal of clearing out all but the hardcore group from the mob to avoid injury and loss of life to those simply sucked up into this mess. So, guess what, that time is now. If the reds don't take the offer unconditionally then troops move in and the vast majority of Thailand will approve this and the PM will gain more popularity.

The reds lost. They could have walked away as winners when the PM offered this almost same exact deal when he agreed to talk to them live on TV and they refused to negotiate and instead have gone onto put 60k+ people out of work, cause untold economic damage to Thailand as well as many deaths and hundreds of injuries. All for what??? To take a deal they were offered at the start of this mess.

The lawless red mob has nothing to offer and nothing to negotiate with and the PM would only lose credibility if he talks with the anymore except to tell them how it is and how it is going to be.

In terms of natural justice I would agree, however I think it must be recognized that Abhisit can only play with the cards he has been dealt, which included an army with factional splits below the surface and a police force who are simply mercenaries to the highest bidder, who also exhibit paralysis for fear of ending up on the losing side. Also through no fault of his own he came to power as a result of the yellow shirt actions and regrettably some yellow shirt leaders were given political power as well as escaping prosecution. My wife was happy when the yellow shirts got their way but I said at the time the manner of their victory may prove Pyrrhic due to the likelyhood of red shirts copying their tactics.

Unpalatable as it may be I suspect a certain amount of horse trading is necessary in order to diffuse understandable accusations of hypocrisy. Perhaps this is a price worth paying if Thaksin is neutralized for good.

Finally whoever wins the next election will only head up a quasi-democracy until such time as the command and control of army and police answers directly to parliament - unfortunately nobody can vote for that.

All great points but I do believe that during this mess Anhisit has learned who he can trust and not trust as well as building some bridges. He is a very smart man and seems very honest and truly caring for a politician. He has done a lot in a short time to show his sincerity towards helping all Thais. I think he is finally starting to win the hearts and minds of much of the population. I realize a number of people who did support him were angry he didn't crush this illegal uprising but I think the vast majority really like the situation now. He basically has sold exactly what he offered, right off the bat, at the start of this mess.

I also believe he will be much more careful than Thaksin in allowing a cult of personality to develop around him and scare the other factions. I certainly don't have my hand on the pulse of all Thais but I really believe he has a good chance of being nominated as PM again if he continues on the path he has been on the last 16 months or so. And we can thank his continue call for patience to let the red shirts hang themselves for this.

[jcbangkok]

Clean the slate. Amnesty for the Reds and the Yellows and we will have total peace. Only fight on election day.

I agree. It might be worth reminding ourselves that the granting of amnesties has proved a cornerstone to the success of the Northern Ireland peace process. Under the Good Friday Agreement many convicted murderers on both side of the sectarian divide were pardoned of their heinous crimes. Although this move was, quite understandably, viewed with abhorrence by the families of the victims of the republican & loyalist murdering thugs who were let off scot free, there is no escaping the fact that it has, in general, resulted in lasting peace in Northern Ireland.

Sure there remain dissident republican @®$€holes who are intent on wrecking the peace process, but their half-hearted attempts at perpetrating terrorist atrocities have in no way succeeded in upsetting the applecart. This is because what they stand for has been overwhelmingly disowned, even in previously diehard republican strongholds.

If the granting of amnesties has been shown to work in bringing lasting peace to Northern Ireland, then why not also to Thailand?

And why should it not also work in the USA regarding all those being held and sought for terrorism since 9/11.

Better yet, why not free all prisoners across the world and stop searching for those who have done and/or had a part in violent acts against society? Certainly it would make them all happy despite the victim's families concerns. Just imagine the money that would be saved in law enforcement.

[jcbangkok]

That weird Aussie dude, Conor David Purcell, should have no amnesty either.

I think we all can agree on this.

[elcent]

6:05 pm the reds will make an announcement. Get ready for the real soap. The whole thing might have caused a crack in their ranks, but it's far from over. I think we're soon back to what it was before.

Waiting for the other final warnings.

One "IF" will be cut today. Stay tuned.

[bangkokjohn]

In order for Thailand to move forward ... there can be no amnesty, no rewards and sever penalties for those who blatantly broke the law when it comes to violence, hurting Thailand and the people of Thailand in an attempt to force change or overthrow the government. Elections will be meaningless unless these people are prosecuted and the people of Thailand see this is not only not the way to change but a guaranteed way to lose your freedoms and possibly life.

There has been a coup almost for every 4 year election cycle in the last 75 or so years. So, if you think the PM is serious about change then you will realize there can be NO amnesty. But they certainly are not going to go after those for simply being part of the mob unless they are still there in the coming days. The PM has made it clear over the last weeks he had a goal of clearing out all but the hardcore group from the mob to avoid injury and loss of life to those simply sucked up into this mess. So, guess what, that time is now. If the reds don't take the offer unconditionally then troops move in and the vast majority of Thailand will approve this and the PM will gain more popularity.

The reds lost. They could have walked away as winners when the PM offered this almost same exact deal when he agreed to talk to them live on TV and they refused to negotiate and instead have gone onto put 60k+ people out of work, cause untold economic damage to Thailand as well as many deaths and hundreds of injuries. All for what??? To take a deal they were offered at the start of this mess.

The lawless red mob has nothing to offer and nothing to negotiate with and the PM would only lose credibility if he talks with the anymore except to tell them how it is and how it is going to be.

Amnesty is a very helpful feature of an offer in a situation like this. Any deal will require it. It should also cover Abisit himself and the Army and police for April 10th and 29th. It could also cover the yellows for their acts at the airport in 2008. Without it, the reds will not accept any deal and we probably are going to move to much more instability and violence.

In my opinion, Thailand has changed forever and people in Bangkok better figure it out soon before this gets totally out of hand. Cut a deal. It will cost some money and some people will lose face but the alternative is drawn out insurrection like in the South spiraling down into more and more violence begetting more violence. Think Beirut, Belfast, Bosnia. Is that what you want?

[elcent]

Veera: We are not asking for amnesty for ourselves on terrorism and monarchy-related charges. We will fight the charges by ourselves.

less than 10 seconds ago via TweetDeck

Veera: We want to see sincerity, through reduction of all kinds of intimidation.

less than a minute ago via TweetDeck

All red leaders on stage now. Veera the last one.

4 minutes ago via TweetDeck

in other words, it will go on ...

[elcent]

Red shirts "do not mind" entering into a reconciliatory process, but we need clarity from government.

less than 5 seconds ago via TweetDeck

[elcent]

Govt must specifically say when the House will be dissolved, Veera and Nuttawut said.

less than 10 seconds ago via TweetDeck

Red leaders dare govt to charge them with terrorism and attempts to overthrw monarchy.

less than 20 seconds ago via TweetDeck

"We will never use amnesty as a bargain," said Nuttawut.

less than 5 seconds ago via TweetDeck

-- what about law? Edited May 4, 2010 by elcent

[siampolee]

Sources said red leaders wouldn't accept Road Map rite away. They wld welcome it but wld giv govt their own clear-cut demands. (via @tistoo)

Procrastination is the biggest thief of time especially when you're running scared.

THE NATION: Urgent: We have heard that Pheu Thai MPs are listening to a Thaksin phone-in. Awaiting more details

All the puppets are having their strings pulled by their puppet paymaster.

THE NATION: This is the highlight. Thaksin: Now that I've called my party, hope they won't say it's fake voice again this time. (via @Phensasitorn)

The bold words say it all.

THE NATION: Thaksin: I just echoed an astrologer's prediction when I said I would come back before year end.

Superstition not common sense prevails.

[

Edited May 4, 2010 by siampolee

[h90]

Govt must specifically say when the House will be dissolved, Veera and Nuttawut said.

less than 10 seconds ago via TweetDeck

Red leaders dare govt to charge them with terrorism and attempts to overthrw monarchy.

less than 20 seconds ago via TweetDeck

"We will never use amnesty as a bargain," said Nuttawut.

less than 5 seconds ago via TweetDeck

-- what about law?

I read it but I am unable to understand what they mean

[siampolee]

quote]BANGKOK: -- Thailand's fugitive former premier Thaksin Shinawatra has hired an international law firm to help the anti-government protest movement holding mass rallies in Bangkok, the company said Tuesday.

Amsterdam & Peroff, which has office in Toronto, London and Washington, said it had been appointed by Thaksin "to assist in the current contentious struggle for the restoration of democracy and rule of law" in Thailand.

"We are pleased to be retained by Prime Minister Shinawatra to work on this urgent matter, and we acknowledge the challenging complexity and sensitivity of the political crisis unraveling Thai society," said Robert Amsterdam, a founding partner of the law firm, said in a statement.

What clout does this firm have, what right do they have to interfere in a sovereigns states affairs. ?

They must be singing ''My God how the money rolls in.

Edited May 4, 2010 by siampolee

[elcent]

although they have softened their tone, the message is clear. No end of mob until the mop comes.

[dobadoy]

THE NATION: The leaders challenged govt to take legal action against people responsible for April 10 bloodshed as well as the Vibhavadi violence.

Glad to see this too, as the highly-respected forensic scientist Dr Porntip Rojanasunan has already gathered evidence that the one death at Vibhavadi (the soldier on a motorbike) was not caused by friendly-fire. He was shot from an area occupied by armed Reds.

Hopefully Red leaders will be keen to see the murderer brought to justice?

Edited May 4, 2010 by dobadoy

[elcent]

Jatuporn is listing cases involving yellow shirts (back to double-standard claims)

less than 5 seconds ago via TweetDeck

[lannarebirth]

quote]BANGKOK: -- Thailand's fugitive former premier Thaksin Shinawatra has hired an international law firm to help the anti-government protest movement holding mass rallies in Bangkok, the company said Tuesday.

Amsterdam & Peroff, which has office in Toronto, London and Washington, said it had been appointed by Thaksin "to assist in the current contentious struggle for the restoration of democracy and rule of law" in Thailand.

"We are pleased to be retained by Prime Minister Shinawatra to work on this urgent matter, and we acknowledge the challenging complexity and sensitivity of the political crisis unraveling Thai society," said Robert Amsterdam, a founding partner of the law firm, said in a statement.

What clout does this firm have, what right do they have to interfere in a sovereigns states affairs. ?

They must be singing ''My God how the money rolls in.

Where do you think those Economist articles come from?

[frodo]

The Nation: The leaders challenged govt to take legal action against people responsible for April 10 bloodshed as well as the Vibhavadi violence.

Porntip: Troop killed in Don Muang clash not killed by friendly fire.

They do need to take legal action against whoever killed the troop, agreed with that one. And with a red followers own admission that Thaksin seeded rogue military staff to fire into the troops on April 10, I agree legal and criminal action must be taken right away on this.

[elcent]

whining and distortion sets in ...

Jatuporn: No attempt whatsoever to arrest those responsible for killing protesters.

half a minute ago via TweetDeck

Jatuporn: DSI making up evidence and false witnesses against reds.

1 minute ago via TweetDeck

Jatuporn: We won't trade fake terrorism charges with real charges of murdering the people.

1 minute ago via TweetDeck

Edited May 4, 2010 by elcent

[lannarebirth]

"Reconciliation can't be forced. We will shw u maps of troops stationed around rajprasong so u can see if this is reconciliation" Jatuporn

3 minutes ago via TweetDeck

Hopefully one of those troops has the speaker in his crosshairs.

[dobadoy]

BANGKOK: -- Thailand's fugitive former premier Thaksin Shinawatra has hired an international law firm to help the anti-government protest movement holding mass rallies in Bangkok, the company said Tuesday.

Amsterdam & Peroff, which has office in Toronto, London and Washington, said it had been appointed by Thaksin "to assist in the current contentious struggle for the restoration of democracy and rule of law" in Thailand.

"We are pleased to be retained by Prime Minister Shinawatra to work on this urgent matter, and we acknowledge the challenging complexity and sensitivity of the political crisis unraveling Thai society," said Robert Amsterdam, a founding partner of the law firm, said in a statement.

What clout does this firm have, what right do they have to interfere in a sovereigns states affairs. ?

They must be singing ''My God how the money rolls in.

I wouldn't worry about this. They have no idea of the logic of Thai courts. Many legal strategies that work in adversarial Western courts are meaningless here. Surprised at Thaksin, he should know better than trying to hire farangs to deal with Thai law.

[lannarebirth]

BANGKOK: -- Thailand's fugitive former premier Thaksin Shinawatra has hired an international law firm to help the anti-government protest movement holding mass rallies in Bangkok, the company said Tuesday.

Amsterdam & Peroff, which has office in Toronto, London and Washington, said it had been appointed by Thaksin "to assist in the current contentious struggle for the restoration of democracy and rule of law" in Thailand.

"We are pleased to be retained by Prime Minister Shinawatra to work on this urgent matter, and we acknowledge the challenging complexity and sensitivity of the political crisis unraveling Thai society," said Robert Amsterdam, a founding partner of the law firm, said in a statement.

What clout does this firm have, what right do they have to interfere in a sovereigns states affairs. ?

They must be singing ''My God how the money rolls in.

I wouldn't worry about this. They have no idea of the logic of Thai courts. Many legal strategies that work in adversarial Western courts are meaningless here. Surprised at Thaksin, he should know better than trying to hire farangs to deal with Thai law.

These are PR / Lobbyist firms. His fourth IIRC.

[FatherF]

Weng: Abhisit should receive no credit because reconciliation was our policy first. But better late than never. But is he sincere? 1 minute ago via TweetDeck

Ha ha ha

FF

[frodo]

Weng: Abhisit should not be honoured with national reconciliation task.

Who is Weng to talk about honor? An honorable MD who allowed terrorists to rampage through a hospital. So honorable that Dr. Weng is.

[elcent]

bottom line is law and complete lawlessness can't exist together, whatever they try, the gov and the mob. Little things are forgivable, but this standoff and lawlessness is of huge dimension. Thailand has to chose either one.

[siampolee]

Now Nuttawut is preaching freedom: "People must have rights to travel, peacefully assemble (w/out arms) & to receive info"

Rather a shame he is unable to take a leaf out of his own book and allow free access to the public in the illegally occupied red Shirt Brigade areas

DEMOCRACY to my drumbeat only. Brothers 1-4 have spoken.

[frodo]

Red leaders seem split toward Road Map. Veera and Nuttawut more receptive but Jatuporn , who received loud cheers from crowds, is v aggrssiv

1 minute ago via TweetDeck

Sure Jatuporn has parliamentary immunity, for now so he can be aggressive and break nearly any law. His day will come.