Bangkok: Policeman Killed, 7 Policemen, 2 Civilians Injured In Double Attacks

[warfie]

Your avatar is most offensive to gay, Christian whales!

and not to the anti-nuke community??

I am an Anti-nuke, gay, Christian whale and I am deeply offended!

[Robby nz]

Reds to propose their own roadmap in next few days

Red shirts leaders' meeting after the double fatal attacks ended on Saturday without any resolution when they would end their rally.

BANGKOK: -- Nuttawut Saikua, a red shirt leader, told after the meeting that the core leaders would meet again on Sunday to work out on more concrete plan.

"The red shirts would announce their own roadmap which would have different topics from that of Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva. Our roadmap would be flexible and would not block the PM's roadmap," Nuttawut said after more than two hours of meeting in a container which was used as a meeting room at Rajprasong rally site.

The reds are well aware that Thai people would love to see better atmosphere. "We will try our best," he said.

His announcement meant the rally at Rajprasong would continue for at least a few days more.

The meeting was held following two double bomb attacks in Bangkok on Friday night and Saturday morning which killed two policemen and injured many others.

The leaders earlier condemned the attacks, saying authorities should arrest assailants as soon as possible.

There appears to be your answer as to will they leave Monday looks like a no to me

[DickFarang]

Off topic, but, your avatar is most offensive to gay, Christian whales!

Can anybody tell me what is wrong with that avatar: a white flower on a black background and a heart in the middle with the colours of the Thai flag ?

[Jerrytheyoung]

Well, like it or not, for this to get resolved, some trust building needs to take place, one step at a time. I'd like to think that Abhisit kind of made that first step by reaching out, drawing flak from the hawks on his own side.

Exactly, due to the opponents in the government side, Red Shirts need to act cautiously in order to avoid that the agreement is emptied of its content by the PAD/ Yellow... They need to go now in the details. and they have to continue to show their force in order to minimise the effect PAD/Yellow Shirts.

It is clear that third parties try to derail the initiation of the agreement. Third parties of any side are the real threat.

Nothing more than that. Environment is important: in a social dispute you negotiate a "situation" against concrete measures". This is well explained to anybody involved in social discussions, it is part of the basic training of Unionists or HR managers.

So we have to remain optimistic, and cool, we are on a very classical strategy used in support of negociations.

[landofthefree]

Well said, that.

I hope you're right. And I hope that any further protests are peaceful on all sides.

Latest on the daily updates suggests the redshirts are beginning to renege on earlier statements.... The redshirts cannot be trusted...

I don't think Mr Abhisit or the Yellow shirts can be trusted either.

Prime Minister Abhisit is one of the few people I would trust, and the PAD has never shown the propensity for indiscriminate violence and terrorism that the redshirts have. And don't rant about the airport siezure, it was an act of civil disobedience that involved no acts of terrorism. While I believe that that should give the PM's plan a chance, they are absolutely right to distrust the redshirts and honestly I agree the timeline for elections is to short but that is the PM's call. Nonetheless I believe we will see the red shirts practicing democracy as they have in the past as the elections near - bribes, intimidation, and actual violence... If they give the government reason to to call off the elections maybe that will be good on one level... Early on I prayed everyone would leave this in a sane exodus... But that makes an assumption the redshirts are sane.

It was a good move on the part of the government to bring police from the South, and hopefully they have been doing the same with the military presence. P.M. Abhisit is a good and honest man. Far better a leader than the TRT, PPP, PTP have ever put forward...

You have a short memory I remember the yellow shirts openly shooting people on the streets of Bangkok if you want to trust them thats up to you. Abhisit has done some good things but also has closed down a lot of websites, radio stations and TV channels bringing widespread international criticism. I started to like him when the Yellow shirts disowned him but he is far from perfect.

[Jerrytheyoung]

I am not a supporter of Abhisit, but I recognise that he has made a generous aperture, which is well perceived by most of Thais including Red shirts and that it is a good initiation to get out the mess. However, technically, from a former negotiator (who has experience of social disputes), this "roadmap' is still too vague, and can be easily dismantled by the opponants to the agreement. IMHO, Due to this situation, the Red Shirts MUST go in the details in order that the Roadmap is not an empty shell and they must exert an higher pressure than the yellow shirts/ PAD in order to reach this goal.

[wintermute]

It would be beneficial to thailand to send a unit of aging farang out to the front lines because it seems like the old asia hands have all the solutions in their mind. We need some real expertise here and what better than some beer bar expats to lead the way. I'm sure their superior cultural and physical conditioning can sway the parties to come to a timely agreement.

[jdinasia]

I am not a supporter of Abhisit, but I recognise that he has made a generous aperture, which is well perceived by most of Thais including Red shirts and that it is a good initiation to get out the mess. However, technically, from a former negotiator (who has experience of social disputes), this "roadmap' is still too vague, and can be easily dismantled by the opponants to the agreement. IMHO, Due to this situation, the Red Shirts MUST go in the details in order that the Roadmap is not an empty shell and they must exert an higher pressure than the yellow shirts/ PAD in order to reach this goal.

So, are you encouraging them to maintain an ILLEGAL and violent protest?

The reds had no credibility from the beginning of this mess. The violent threats against BKK and the government lost them any semblance of being peaceful. The petrol bombs used at Thaicom and 1st Regiment started the violence. The grenades at Sala Daeng/Silom and at red targets all over the city moved it even worse into the negative ---- and then there was Chulalongkorn Hospital.

So they pretend to get on board the reconciliation train .... and what do they do? Sae Daeng's grenades --- stalling ---- etc ....

Apparently the red leadership is still hoping to goad the government into more violence.

[gemini81]

I am not a supporter of Abhisit, but I recognise that he has made a generous aperture, which is well perceived by most of Thais including Red shirts and that it is a good initiation to get out the mess. However, technically, from a former negotiator (who has experience of social disputes), this "roadmap' is still too vague, and can be easily dismantled by the opponants to the agreement. IMHO, Due to this situation, the Red Shirts MUST go in the details in order that the Roadmap is not an empty shell and they must exert an higher pressure than the yellow shirts/ PAD in order to reach this goal.

Reach this goal? Exert more pressure? By doing what?

Are you even a Thai national that it involves you to that extreme? They are illegally occupying downtown, and you speak like they have tons of rights to let this circus and mayhem continue

[lannarebirth]

I am not a supporter of Abhisit, but I recognise that he has made a generous aperture, which is well perceived by most of Thais including Red shirts and that it is a good initiation to get out the mess. However, technically, from a former negotiator (who has experience of social disputes), this "roadmap' is still too vague, and can be easily dismantled by the opponants to the agreement. IMHO, Due to this situation, the Red Shirts MUST go in the details in order that the Roadmap is not an empty shell and they must exert an higher pressure than the yellow shirts/ PAD in order to reach this goal.

Nobody need go into any details except to outline a format for dialogue and inclusion of participants in the dialogue. This isn't a plan that's going to get laid on the participants for their consideration and approval. It is a dialouge to discuss numerous important issues that Thai people are conditioned not to discuss. That lack of discussion creates greater disunity and division in society than does learning to air their differences and find common ground. It is my understanding that Abhisit wants to get the input of all sectors of Thai society so that they may understand each others concerns better, find some common ground and that he may help them achieve their collective aims. Sure he's got some of his own ideas he's going to present, but from his announcement the only thing I saw that he wanted as a precondition is that everyone honor the idea of protecting the institution of the monarchy.

[BNZ]

Your avatar is most offensive to gay, Christian whales!

and not to the anti-nuke community??

I am an Anti-nuke, gay, Christian whale and I am deeply offended!

 Phwoooaaaarr  you've got some Krill stuck in your bunghole ..blowhole, whales can't type !

[Insight]

I think the UDD should accept the road map and leave by Monday. Not sure what else is there to gain, realistically. Surely they don't expect to turn all of Thailand's political challenges around in a single protest..

Agreed!

There's still a possibility to get Abhisit to resign.

[Jerrytheyoung]

I am not a supporter of Abhisit, but I recognise that he has made a generous aperture, which is well perceived by most of Thais including Red shirts and that it is a good initiation to get out the mess. However, technically, from a former negotiator (who has experience of social disputes), this "roadmap' is still too vague, and can be easily dismantled by the opponants to the agreement. IMHO, Due to this situation, the Red Shirts MUST go in the details in order that the Roadmap is not an empty shell and they must exert an higher pressure than the yellow shirts/ PAD in order to reach this goal.

Reach this goal? Exert more pressure? By doing what?

Are you even a Thai national that it involves you to that extreme? They are illegally occupying downtown, and you speak like they have tons of rights to let this circus and mayhem continue

I am just explaining why the Red Shirts need to reinforce their presence in Radjaprasong...

A social dispute may drift out of the Laws, one consequence of the social disputes maybe a reconsideration of the Laws: this is part of the History lessons: How in Western Countries we have gained some social advantages: because our predecessors have been outside of the Laws at some moment in History. (slavery, feminist rights, social security, children working limitations, retirement, pension funds, Union possibility, strike rights....How it has been obtained in our western Countries?

It is the "active" (positive or negative as you want) action of Unions, political Parties, social movements. The Passive role being inside the frame of the Laws.

This differentiation between the passive and active roles is a classic....

Laws, Political Rights, social advantages may evolved because some people are going "outside the box and push the History.

Edited May 8, 2010 by Jerrytheyoung

[lannarebirth]

I am not a supporter of Abhisit, but I recognise that he has made a generous aperture, which is well perceived by most of Thais including Red shirts and that it is a good initiation to get out the mess. However, technically, from a former negotiator (who has experience of social disputes), this "roadmap' is still too vague, and can be easily dismantled by the opponants to the agreement. IMHO, Due to this situation, the Red Shirts MUST go in the details in order that the Roadmap is not an empty shell and they must exert an higher pressure than the yellow shirts/ PAD in order to reach this goal.

Reach this goal? Exert more pressure? By doing what?

Are you even a Thai national that it involves you to that extreme? They are illegally occupying downtown, and you speak like they have tons of rights to let this circus and mayhem continue

I am just explaining why the Red Shirts need to reinforce their presence in Radjaprasong...

A social dispute may drift out of the Laws, one consequence of the social disputes maybe a reconsideration of the Laws: this is part of the History lessons: How in Western Countries we have gained some social advantages: because our predecessors have been outside of the Laws at some moment in History. (slavery, feminist rights, social security, children working limitations, retirement, pension funds....How it has been obtained in our western Countries?

It is the "active" (positive or negative as you want) action of Unions, political Parties, social movements. The Passive role being inside the frame of the Laws.

This differentiation between the passive and active roles is a classic....

Laws, Political Rights, social advantages may evolved because some people are going "outside the box and push the History.

Jerry, they are trampling on the rights of millions of other people. Other people have rights too. Laws are for offering equal protection. If they want to argue the point, bring it up during the national reconciliation dialogue, but in the mean time, get the hel_l off the streets.

Edited May 8, 2010 by lannarebirth

[4223rhodes]

I am not a supporter of Abhisit, but I recognise that he has made a generous aperture, which is well perceived by most of Thais including Red shirts and that it is a good initiation to get out the mess. However, technically, from a former negotiator (who has experience of social disputes), this "roadmap' is still too vague, and can be easily dismantled by the opponants to the agreement. IMHO, Due to this situation, the Red Shirts MUST go in the details in order that the Roadmap is not an empty shell and they must exert an higher pressure than the yellow shirts/ PAD in order to reach this goal.

Reach this goal? Exert more pressure? By doing what?

Are you even a Thai national that it involves you to that extreme? They are illegally occupying downtown, and you speak like they have tons of rights to let this circus and mayhem continue

I am just explaining why the Red Shirts need to reinforce their presence in Radjaprasong...

A social dispute may drift out of the Laws, one consequence of the social disputes maybe a reconsideration of the Laws: this is part of the History lessons: How in Western Countries we have gained some social advantages: because our predecessors have been outside of the Laws at some moment in History. (slavery, feminist rights, social security, children working limitations, retirement, pension funds....How it has been obtained in our western Countries?

It is the "active" (positive or negative as you want) action of Unions, political Parties, social movements. The Passive role being inside the frame of the Laws.

This differentiation between the passive and active roles is a classic....

Laws, Political Rights, social advantages may evolved because some people are going "outside the box and push the History.

Jerry, they are trampling on the rights of millions of other people. Other people have rights to. Laws are for offering equal protection. If they want to argue the point, bring it up during the national reconciliation dialogue, but in the mean time, get the hel_l off the streets.

Let's be realistic. If the Reds were not on the street, there would be no push toward democracy in Thailand. The future of our children is indebted to the sacrifices we are all making at this time. There will be plenty of time for shopping at the Paragon in the future.

[OzMick]

IMO the red leaders will have to delay until at least the 15th. Then they can say that "We can't turn ourselves in to the police because we are still negotiating."

This will continue until finally the govt is forced to move, causing a bloodbath. Again, IMO, that is what they want. Only by creating a constitutional crisis, which they hope will lead to Thaksin being pardoned and returned, can they hope to escape punishment for their actions. Do you really imagine that they will negotiate a truce which will see them prosecuted, knowing the death penalty is a not unlikely outcome? These nobody's have got their (extended) 15 mins of fame, no way will they exchange that for a shared room at the Bangkok Hilton.

[lannarebirth]

Reach this goal? Exert more pressure? By doing what?

Are you even a Thai national that it involves you to that extreme? They are illegally occupying downtown, and you speak like they have tons of rights to let this circus and mayhem continue

I am just explaining why the Red Shirts need to reinforce their presence in Radjaprasong...

A social dispute may drift out of the Laws, one consequence of the social disputes maybe a reconsideration of the Laws: this is part of the History lessons: How in Western Countries we have gained some social advantages: because our predecessors have been outside of the Laws at some moment in History. (slavery, feminist rights, social security, children working limitations, retirement, pension funds....How it has been obtained in our western Countries?

It is the "active" (positive or negative as you want) action of Unions, political Parties, social movements. The Passive role being inside the frame of the Laws.

This differentiation between the passive and active roles is a classic....

Laws, Political Rights, social advantages may evolved because some people are going "outside the box and push the History.

Jerry, they are trampling on the rights of millions of other people. Other people have rights to. Laws are for offering equal protection. If they want to argue the point, bring it up during the national reconciliation dialogue, but in the mean time, get the hel_l off the streets.

Let's be realistic. If the Reds were not on the street, there would be no push toward democracy in Thailand. The future of our children is indebted to the sacrifices we are all making at this time. There will be plenty of time for shopping at the Paragon in the future.

The last push towards democracy was when they threw out the last Red government for vote buying. I expect if they get in again the same thing will happen again.

[gemini81]

I am not a supporter of Abhisit, but I recognise that he has made a generous aperture, which is well perceived by most of Thais including Red shirts and that it is a good initiation to get out the mess. However, technically, from a former negotiator (who has experience of social disputes), this "roadmap' is still too vague, and can be easily dismantled by the opponants to the agreement. IMHO, Due to this situation, the Red Shirts MUST go in the details in order that the Roadmap is not an empty shell and they must exert an higher pressure than the yellow shirts/ PAD in order to reach this goal.

Reach this goal? Exert more pressure? By doing what?

Are you even a Thai national that it involves you to that extreme? They are illegally occupying downtown, and you speak like they have tons of rights to let this circus and mayhem continue

I am just explaining why the Red Shirts need to reinforce their presence in Radjaprasong...

A social dispute may drift out of the Laws, one consequence of the social disputes maybe a reconsideration of the Laws: this is part of the History lessons: How in Western Countries we have gained some social advantages: because our predecessors have been outside of the Laws at some moment in History. (slavery, feminist rights, social security, children working limitations, retirement, pension funds, Union possibility, strike rights....How it has been obtained in our western Countries?

It is the "active" (positive or negative as you want) action of Unions, political Parties, social movements. The Passive role being inside the frame of the Laws.

This differentiation between the passive and active roles is a classic....

Laws, Political Rights, social advantages may evolved because some people are going "outside the box and push the History.

then the Reds can draw up and sponser a welfare plan for all of those who lost their jobs and income during this ridiculous overtake of major roads and shopping areas. I know what you're trying to say, but they're going about it in a way damaging not only to them, but they're country. And done in a way in which they show little or no respect or restraint. They are losing credibility and it's defeating their purpose.

[jdinasia]

So Jerry IS saying that he is in favor of their violent illegal protest continueing.

eeeek

[way2muchcoffee]

So Jerry IS saying that he is in favor of their violent illegal protest continueing.

eeeek

That is exactly what Jerry is saying. Evidently Jerry believes that violent protest groups who murder, ruin the lives of the innocent, and commit terrorist acts have legitimacy and are perfectly correct to demand concessions from a legal government. Sorry Jerry. Sometimes your views, while unquestionably well-meaning, get my blood boiling.

Edited May 8, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[Jerrytheyoung]

I am not a supporter of Abhisit, but I recognise that he has made a generous aperture, which is well perceived by most of Thais including Red shirts and that it is a good initiation to get out the mess. However, technically, from a former negotiator (who has experience of social disputes), this "roadmap' is still too vague, and can be easily dismantled by the opponants to the agreement. IMHO, Due to this situation, the Red Shirts MUST go in the details in order that the Roadmap is not an empty shell and they must exert an higher pressure than the yellow shirts/ PAD in order to reach this goal.

Reach this goal? Exert more pressure? By doing what?

Are you even a Thai national that it involves you to that extreme? They are illegally occupying downtown, and you speak like they have tons of rights to let this circus and mayhem continue

I am just explaining why the Red Shirts need to reinforce their presence in Radjaprasong...

A social dispute may drift out of the Laws, one consequence of the social disputes maybe a reconsideration of the Laws: this is part of the History lessons: How in Western Countries we have gained some social advantages: because our predecessors have been outside of the Laws at some moment in History. (slavery, feminist rights, social security, children working limitations, retirement, pension funds....How it has been obtained in our western Countries?

It is the "active" (positive or negative as you want) action of Unions, political Parties, social movements. The Passive role being inside the frame of the Laws.

This differentiation between the passive and active roles is a classic....

Laws, Political Rights, social advantages may evolved because some people are going "outside the box and push the History.

Jerry, they are trampling on the rights of millions of other people. Other people have rights to. Laws are for offering equal protection. If they want to argue the point, bring it up during the national reconciliation dialogue, but in the mean time, get the hel_l off the streets.

just be patient few more days.. The stake is important.

When we got the General strike in 1936, (front Populaire), a lot of People want to work including in the workers and in fact the popularity of the strike was not really "popular" (directly from the Horse mouth; my Great Father was obliged to stop working more than a month, small salary with a family to feed, very anxious) . However, the results have been very important: first time workers get leaves, limitation of the weekly working duration, Unions,....). Important social movements are a disruption in the economical activity and a large disturbance: but the result is more solidarity in the Society, better equilibrium.

We have to recognise than Thailand is socially lagging, so this is an Historical moment which is going to reduce inequalities and which will reinforce this Country on the long term.

Be patient...we are on the final period hopefully if the third parties are not derailing the process.

[jcbangkok]

Did I miss the news ... I thought the reds were going to make yet another statement changing their views and stance on the road map today.

[4223rhodes]

So Jerry IS saying that he is in favor of their violent illegal protest continueing.

eeeek

I think what he is saying is that the junta-assisted govt. should cease their violence against legitimate protesters and have a legal election according to the pre-junta coup-assasinated 1997 constitution.

[lannarebirth]

So Jerry IS saying that he is in favor of their violent illegal protest continueing.

eeeek

I think what he is saying is that the junta-assisted govt. should cease their violence against legitimate protesters and have a legal election according to the pre-junta coup-assasinated 1997 constitution.

I hope he's not saying that as then I wouldn't give his posts any regard at all.

[jcbangkok]

Okay, just reviewed today's updates. So, basically the reds are back to pretending they are above all average citizens but are setting the stage to cry about how they were working towards a better road map to improve the one from the PM when for no reason at all the military moves on us and slaughtered all our lambs who we told to fight authorities till death.

Basically, nothing has changed since day one with this violent illegal mob.

[4223rhodes]

Okay, just reviewed today's updates. So, basically the reds are back to pretending they are above all average citizens but are setting the stage to cry about how they were working towards a better road map to improve the one from the PM when for no reason at all the military moves on us and slaughtered all our lambs who we told to fight authorities till death.

Basically, nothing has changed since day one with this violent illegal mob.

Since Bangkok was occupied by the violent illegal mob in Sept of 2006 there has been no peace. Why does Abhisit condone the violence? Because he is paid by the perpetrators.

[jcbangkok]

Okay, just reviewed today's updates. So, basically the reds are back to pretending they are above all average citizens but are setting the stage to cry about how they were working towards a better road map to improve the one from the PM when for no reason at all the military moves on us and slaughtered all our lambs who we told to fight authorities till death.

Basically, nothing has changed since day one with this violent illegal mob.

Since Bangkok was occupied by the violent illegal mob in Sept of 2006 there has been no peace. Why does Abhisit condone the violence? Because he is paid by the perpetrators.

Am pretty sure Abhisit condemned the yellows as did he oppose the coup of Thaksin.

[jcbangkok]

I am just explaining why the Red Shirts need to reinforce their presence in Radjaprasong...

Like trying to explain why somebody needed to robbed a bank, took hostages and then killed a couple cops.

[TPI]

So Jerry IS saying that he is in favor of their violent illegal protest continueing.

eeeek

I think what he is saying is that the junta-assisted govt. should cease their violence against legitimate protesters and have a legal election according to the pre-junta coup-assasinated 1997 constitution.

And elect who? The twice disbanded taksinista party? Re-elect the party that you want to bin? Some other collection of wannabe's from god knows where connected to the landed mafia, the city mafia, the army mafia or the police mafia? Take your pick!

Time to close this entire subject of reds and yellows and multi-coloured etc. etc.

[lannarebirth]

I am just explaining why the Red Shirts need to reinforce their presence in Radjaprasong...

Like trying to explain why somebody needed to robbed a bank, took hostages and then killed a couple cops.

Exactly. Moral relativism becomes a pretty slippery slope when you use previous criminal acts to justify current and perhaps future criminal acts.