Bangkok: Policeman Killed, 7 Policemen, 2 Civilians Injured In Double Attacks

[noahvail]

I am not a supporter of Abhisit, but I recognise that he has made a generous aperture, which is well perceived by most of Thais including Red shirts and that it is a good initiation to get out the mess. However, technically, from a former negotiator (who has experience of social disputes), this "roadmap' is still too vague, and can be easily dismantled by the opponants to the agreement. IMHO, Due to this situation, the Red Shirts MUST go in the details in order that the Roadmap is not an empty shell and they must exert an higher pressure than the yellow shirts/ PAD in order to reach this goal.

Reach this goal? Exert more pressure? By doing what?

Are you even a Thai national that it involves you to that extreme? They are illegally occupying downtown, and you speak like they have tons of rights to let this circus and mayhem continue

I am just explaining why the Red Shirts need to reinforce their presence in Radjaprasong...

A social dispute may drift out of the Laws, one consequence of the social disputes maybe a reconsideration of the Laws: this is part of the History lessons: How in Western Countries we have gained some social advantages: because our predecessors have been outside of the Laws at some moment in History. (slavery, feminist rights, social security, children working limitations, retirement, pension funds, Union possibility, strike rights....How it has been obtained in our western Countries?

It is the "active" (positive or negative as you want) action of Unions, political Parties, social movements. The Passive role being inside the frame of the Laws.

This differentiation between the passive and active roles is a classic....

Laws, Political Rights, social advantages may evolved because some people are going "outside the box and push the History.

I don't know the answer to all the items you question, how were they obtained? But I do know a couple.

Slavery in the US was abolished by President Lincoln as an economic blow to the Southern States; the civil war was fought over states' rights vs federal governing. Social Security was developed in the FDR administration because of the Great Depression, to put a safety net under people; same for retirement. Feminine rights (the suffrage movement) had its first success in New Zealand, in a fairly laid-back fashion compared to the US, where the women who peacefully marched for their rights were often jailed. And so it goes, with the "active" action.

However, what you term "passive" lawmaking also has its place. Health-care reform was pushed by Senator Edward Kennedy for more than two decades, with some small victories, before a major victory was to be had by President Obama. It's just one example.

I agree, some laws - some very good laws imo - have come through "active" participation. And some laws died a premature death for the same reason. Take nuclear power in the US, for instance, when Ellsberg and his group threw blood onto a warship in Maine in a misguided effort to get the work on it stopped. Can't remember who it was who threw blood at the site of the Seabrook nuclear power station before it was built. But some things don't change much, do they...

I'm a firm believer in peaceful protest, and in my earlier days participated. Some of these were held once and generally didn't work; but the ones that were held every weekend sometimes did work, but that was mainly because the media showed the public what was happening, and the public wrote letters (that tells you how long ago lol).

Obviously, what is happening now in BKK is far from peaceful. I fear that some of the leaders may wish to be martyrs for the cause. In most cases, martyrs are forgotten. Better work can be done peacefully.

I have no objection to the red shirts legally demonstrating; but I doubt that was ever their desire. Legal demonstrations can be considered "active" in that they take place without (as opposed to within) the governing body. A constant and legal demonstration, along with positive media attention, might give the red shirts the victory they had hoped for without the violence. Maybe. Now there is no way to tell, as the stopper is gone from the bottle.

[gemini81]

So Jerry IS saying that he is in favor of their violent illegal protest continueing.

eeeek

I think what he is saying is that the junta-assisted govt. should cease their violence against legitimate protesters and have a legal election according to the pre-junta coup-assasinated 1997 constitution.

And elect who? The twice disbanded taksinista party? Re-elect the party that you want to bin? Some other collection of wannabe's from god knows where connected to the landed mafia, the city mafia, the army mafia or the police mafia? Take your pick!

Time to close this entire subject of reds and yellows and multi-coloured etc. etc.

bottom line, thanks. great point. have a new election, then the other side isn't happy and protests and calls for yet another new election. it has to end!

[Old Man River]

Okay, just reviewed today's updates. So, basically the reds are back to pretending they are above all average citizens but are setting the stage to cry about how they were working towards a better road map to improve the one from the PM when for no reason at all the military moves on us and slaughtered all our lambs who we told to fight authorities till death.

Basically, nothing has changed since day one with this violent illegal mob.

Since Bangkok was occupied by the violent illegal mob in Sept of 2006 there has been no peace. Why does Abhisit condone the violence? Because he is paid by the perpetrators.

Certainly there was no peace in 2008 when Thaksin's People Power Party governed and of course, the violence really escalated this year when Thaksin's Red Shirts marched into Bangkok claiming they were going to burn the city down.

I do agree with you that Abhisit should have never condoned the violent acts of these Reds.

[frodo]

Okay, just reviewed today's updates. So, basically the reds are back to pretending they are above all average citizens but are setting the stage to cry about how they were working towards a better road map to improve the one from the PM when for no reason at all the military moves on us and slaughtered all our lambs who we told to fight authorities till death.

Basically, nothing has changed since day one with this violent illegal mob.

Since Bangkok was occupied by the violent illegal mob in Sept of 2006 there has been no peace. Why does Abhisit condone the violence? Because he is paid by the perpetrators.

Certainly there was no peace in 2008 when Thaksin's People Power Party governed and of course, the violence really escalated this year when Thaksin's Red Shirts marched into Bangkok claiming they were going to burn the city down.

I do agree with you that Abhisit should have never condoned the violent acts of these Reds.

Violent reds?

Come now, they have no weapons and only use their bare hands.

They sit around old tires and bamboo fences to protect themselves against the evil military and police. There could never be anything in those tires except empty space.

Of course they respect property and would never even consider breaking into a hospital, especially with doors that are locked.

As good citizens, they would never dream of leaving a mess or living in conditions that would be unhealthy.

These "protesters" stand out above the rest of the Thai's in Thailand, and set an exemplary role model for all youth. The future of Thailand. Isn't it just lovely?

[landofthefree]

Okay, just reviewed today's updates. So, basically the reds are back to pretending they are above all average citizens but are setting the stage to cry about how they were working towards a better road map to improve the one from the PM when for no reason at all the military moves on us and slaughtered all our lambs who we told to fight authorities till death.

Basically, nothing has changed since day one with this violent illegal mob.

Since Bangkok was occupied by the violent illegal mob in Sept of 2006 there has been no peace. Why does Abhisit condone the violence? Because he is paid by the perpetrators.

Certainly there was no peace in 2008 when Thaksin's People Power Party governed and of course, the violence really escalated this year when Thaksin's Red Shirts marched into Bangkok claiming they were going to burn the city down.

I do agree with you that Abhisit should have never condoned the violent acts of these Reds.

Violent reds?

Come now, they have no weapons and only use their bare hands.

They sit around old tires and bamboo fences to protect themselves against the evil military and police. There could never be anything in those tires except empty space.

Of course they respect property and would never even consider breaking into a hospital, especially with doors that are locked.

As good citizens, they would never dream of leaving a mess or living in conditions that would be unhealthy.

These "protesters" stand out above the rest of the Thai's in Thailand, and set an exemplary role model for all youth. The future of Thailand. Isn't it just lovely?

So I guess you're a Thaksin supporter then?

[Pi Sek]

Now now now take a deep breath and relax in a democracy sometimes people have different views, you dont have to get angry with them relax you're in Thailand

Yep, very aggressive post (mods did well to delete very quickly!), and he should calm down. He's still correct though - anyone STILL trying to justify the Red actions as beneficial to country, be it now or in the future, has clearly got himself mixed up.

[camerata]

Two posts have been deleted and a suspension given for making and quoting personal insults. If you can't argue your point without insults, better not post at all.

[camerata]

Troops were setting up a command post beneath Ploenchit BTS station and guarding all footbridges around 6.30pm tonight. Looks like they are expecting trouble.

[granuaile]

Okay, just reviewed today's updates. So, basically the reds are back to pretending they are above all average citizens but are setting the stage to cry about how they were working towards a better road map to improve the one from the PM when for no reason at all the military moves on us and slaughtered all our lambs who we told to fight authorities till death.

Basically, nothing has changed since day one with this violent illegal mob.

Since Bangkok was occupied by the violent illegal mob in Sept of 2006 there has been no peace. Why does Abhisit condone the violence? Because he is paid by the perpetrators.

Ahem, violent illegal mob of 2006... Hmmm, bloodless coup... violent mob? Where. My photos would belie that description. A child giving ice cream to soldiers... Real violent... A soldier by a talk festooned with flowers... I cropped a couple of friends out of one... no reason to make anyone a target for crazy redshirts...

[eggomaniac]

Thais hate Thais but they need to live on the same land. There are no good Thais or bad Thais, there are only Thais who need A NEW POLITICAL system to live together peacefully.

EGGsactly!

For over a year, I have all the correspondence to prove it, I have been trying to avoid this crisis by telling of a political system that WOULD work for Thailand, The Joseph Solution.

The ironic part is it is a 'Made in Thailand' approach and nobody will listen to me because I'm a 'farang', but the broken system they have is a pitch patch of farangs ideas and elements that do NOT work for Thailand. [all this 'history' about Thailand never being concquered is remarkably untrue]

The Joseph Solution gets rid of corruption in election campaigning, auto - mat - ic - ally, and has a built in watch dog system for elected officials that sees, hears and smells conflict of interest and barks, then bites.

[rabo]

Oops, DP.

Edited May 8, 2010 by rabo

[rabo]

Okay, just reviewed today's updates. So, basically the reds are back to pretending they are above all average citizens but are setting the stage to cry about how they were working towards a better road map to improve the one from the PM when for no reason at all the military moves on us and slaughtered all our lambs who we told to fight authorities till death.

Basically, nothing has changed since day one with this violent illegal mob.

Since Bangkok was occupied by the violent illegal mob in Sept of 2006 there has been no peace. Why does Abhisit condone the violence? Because he is paid by the perpetrators.

What violent illegal mob in Sept of 2006? Do you mean the coup? That was a most peaceful and pleasant time. Only problem was the traffic jams from people stopping for photo ops and all the pretty girls dressed up in dresses keeping the soldiers from their afternoon snooze. Oh, and the price of flowers went up.

Maybe we need another, sure is better than what Thaksin's handing out.

Edited May 8, 2010 by rabo

[Redsunset]

Troops were setting up a command post beneath Ploenchit BTS station and guarding all footbridges around 6.30pm tonight. Looks like they are expecting trouble.

There are soldiers between Sukhumvit Soi 13 and Soi 15. They have been there for about a week.... some sort of checkpoint, I think.... a weird place to have a checkpoint. Nothing else on those backroads from Asoke to Nana.

[Pi Sek]

Erm... no, no coup please, regardless of how peaceful or unpeaceful it is.

Also, I asked a question earlier and I haven't seen an answer. Can someone please help me?

What’s the difference between the UDD and the DAAD? Are they separate groups in alliance; is one a splinter of the other; or are they one and the same?

[cheguevara]

Okay, just reviewed today's updates. So, basically the reds are back to pretending they are above all average citizens but are setting the stage to cry about how they were working towards a better road map to improve the one from the PM when for no reason at all the military moves on us and slaughtered all our lambs who we told to fight authorities till death.

Basically, nothing has changed since day one with this violent illegal mob.

Since Bangkok was occupied by the violent illegal mob in Sept of 2006 there has been no peace. Why does Abhisit condone the violence? Because he is paid by the perpetrators.

Ahem, violent illegal mob of 2006... Hmmm, bloodless coup... violent mob? Where. My photos would belie that description. A child giving ice cream to soldiers... Real violent... A soldier by a talk festooned with flowers... I cropped a couple of friends out of one... no reason to make anyone a target for crazy redshirts...

Yep, they were definitely very peaceful. Armed and dangerous, but peaceful. The guy with the slingshot, peaceful. The guys with the golf clubs, peaceful. The guys beating police officers, extremely peaceful. The guy aiming a handgun and shooting, even more peaceful. Here are some more photos to back up your claims of the peaceful PAD:

[MaiChai]

The main point I think is that police and army don't enforce the law, so people can do what they want, which is killing and injuring others without any worry of being arrested and charged. Too many violant acts have been performed without anyone being punished for them. IMHO police and army are weak/cowards. Too many people in Thailand don't have any morals and don't know the difference between right and wrong.

[lazurus]

I am not a supporter of Abhisit, but I recognise that he has made a generous aperture, which is well perceived by most of Thais including Red shirts and that it is a good initiation to get out the mess. However, technically, from a former negotiator (who has experience of social disputes), this "roadmap' is still too vague, and can be easily dismantled by the opponants to the agreement. IMHO, Due to this situation, the Red Shirts MUST go in the details in order that the Roadmap is not an empty shell and they must exert an higher pressure than the yellow shirts/ PAD in order to reach this goal.

Reach this goal? Exert more pressure? By doing what?

Are you even a Thai national that it involves you to that extreme? They are illegally occupying downtown, and you speak like they have tons of rights to let this circus and mayhem continue

I am just explaining why the Red Shirts need to reinforce their presence in Radjaprasong...

A social dispute may drift out of the Laws, one consequence of the social disputes maybe a reconsideration of the Laws: this is part of the History lessons: How in Western Countries we have gained some social advantages: because our predecessors have been outside of the Laws at some moment in History. (slavery, feminist rights, social security, children working limitations, retirement, pension funds, Union possibility, strike rights....How it has been obtained in our western Countries?

It is the "active" (positive or negative as you want) action of Unions, political Parties, social movements. The Passive role being inside the frame of the Laws.

This differentiation between the passive and active roles is a classic....

Laws, Political Rights, social advantages may evolved because some people are going "outside the box and push the History.

What? Are you saying they are tying to advance feminist rights? Or is it the right to terrorize people with grenades that they are fighting for. They've got what they claimed they wanted, so what is the need to stay outside the law? Pure drivel.

[granuaile]

Okay, just reviewed today's updates. So, basically the reds are back to pretending they are above all average citizens but are setting the stage to cry about how they were working towards a better road map to improve the one from the PM when for no reason at all the military moves on us and slaughtered all our lambs who we told to fight authorities till death.

Basically, nothing has changed since day one with this violent illegal mob.

Since Bangkok was occupied by the violent illegal mob in Sept of 2006 there has been no peace. Why does Abhisit condone the violence? Because he is paid by the perpetrators.

Ahem, violent illegal mob of 2006... Hmmm, bloodless coup... violent mob? Where. My photos would belie that description. A child giving ice cream to soldiers... Real violent... A soldier by a talk festooned with flowers... I cropped a couple of friends out of one... no reason to make anyone a target for crazy redshirts...

Yep, they were definitely very peaceful. Armed and dangerous, but peaceful. The guy with the slingshot, peaceful. The guys with the golf clubs, peaceful. The guys beating police officers, extremely peaceful. The guy aiming a handgun and shooting, even more peaceful. Here are some more photos to back up your claims of the peaceful PAD:

...

Hmmm, your point?

My photos were from the 2006 coup. Your photos were from where now...? I said nothing of the PAD... My photos were a reference to the coup, an event which every Thai I knew welcomed. 100%

Seems trying to throw up smokescreens...

[rabo]

Since Bangkok was occupied by the violent illegal mob in Sept of 2006 there has been no peace. Why does Abhisit condone the violence? Because he is paid by the perpetrators.

Ahem, violent illegal mob of 2006... Hmmm, bloodless coup... violent mob? Where. My photos would belie that description. A child giving ice cream to soldiers... Real violent... A soldier by a talk festooned with flowers... I cropped a couple of friends out of one... no reason to make anyone a target for crazy redshirts...

Yep, they were definitely very peaceful. Armed and dangerous, but peaceful. The guy with the slingshot, peaceful. The guys with the golf clubs, peaceful. The guys beating police officers, extremely peaceful. The guy aiming a handgun and shooting, even more peaceful. Here are some more photos to back up your claims of the peaceful PAD:

...

Hmmm, your point?

My photos were from the 2006 coup. Your photos were from where now...? I said nothing of the PAD... My photos were a reference to the coup, an event which every Thai I knew welcomed. 100%

Seems trying to throw up smokescreens...

Also, the yellow ribbons, sometimes seen on gun barrels after the coup, were to honor His Majesty. For those that remember, yellow shirts with the inscription "I love my King" were popular at the time, as yellow is the color of Monday, the day on which the king was born.

I still have a few of these shirts that I no longer wear.

[vhartling]

It´s about time now to arrest these criminals!

And who would they be? The present government who stole power and were never elected or the poor farmers and working class who want a democratically elected government. While I don't condone the violence it is never clear who is committing it. As a guest in thailand I suggest that you respect the will of the people for a demoncratic government. I am sure you would not settle for less in your country.

[tombradly]

It´s about time now to arrest these criminals!

And who would they be? The present government who stole power and were never elected or the poor farmers and working class who want a democratically elected government. While I don't condone the violence it is never clear who is committing it. As a guest in thailand I suggest that you respect the will of the people for a demoncratic government. I am sure you would not settle for less in your country.

Well said

[granuaile]

Also, the yellow ribbons, sometimes seen on gun barrels after the coup, were to honor His Majesty. For those that remember, yellow shirts with the inscription "I love my King" were popular at the time, as yellow is the color of Monday, the day on which the king was born.

I still have a few of these shirts that I no longer wear.

Yes I bought several in those last months of 2006 and took back to the US with me. I had pink, red, blue, and yellow... They are stateside now though I wish I had brought them. Except the red ones... I make a point to try to wear a yellow tee when I go to Sukhumvit now just to express my refusal to be intimidated by the redshirts.... If I had brought the yellow polos I would make a point to wear them.

To the poster "Che Guevara" - Hmmm the real Che Guevara would not have thrown his support to the private thugs of a multi-billionaire capitalist.

[rabo]

It´s about time now to arrest these criminals!

And who would they be? The present government who stole power and were never elected or the poor farmers and working class who want a democratically elected government. While I don't condone the violence it is never clear who is committing it. As a guest in thailand I suggest that you respect the will of the people for a demoncratic government. I am sure you would not settle for less in your country.

As a long term resident and official head of a rather large 3 generation northeastern family originally from Buriram, I will stand by the monarchy and the legal constitution of Thailand and the branches of the government and armed forces that legally protect it. My family stands firmly behind me. We, and the majority of the country and its institutions oppose the tyranny represented by Mr. Thaksin and his cohorts and his return.

Edited May 8, 2010 by rabo

[Jingthing]

The present government WAS elected, just as much as the Thaksin puppet PM's that preceded it. Why do the red shirts continue to repeat the lie that Abhisit wasn't legitimately elected? It hurts their credibility even more, not that their reputation can be damaged much further.

[tombradly]

Same old same old here.

All the reds get blocked and deleted here.

The anti-Reds are free to trash the reds with names and attacks.

Fair and honest just like Fox News in America.

P.S

Thanks a lot Australia for giving that Nazi, Rupert, a passport so that he could move to America and feed the right-wing nuts, a strong but vocal minority, in the states.

Might I suggest that fairness be used more on the filtering of posts.

I understand that the current government is not red but take into account Thai visa, that the future could be different.

[granuaile]

Maybe they are trying to convince themselves...

The present government WAS elected, just as much as the Thaksin puppet PM's that preceded it. Why do the red shirts continue to repeat the lie that Abhisit wasn't legitimately elected? It hurts their credibility even more, not that their reputation can be damaged much further.

[donmac]

Has there ever been fair elections in thailand?

i think not.

[Jingthing]

All the reds get blocked and deleted here.

The anti-Reds are free to trash the reds with names and attacks.

That's clearly a lie. Plenty of reds here, dude.

[hextac]

Troops were setting up a command post beneath Ploenchit BTS station and guarding all footbridges around 6.30pm tonight. Looks like they are expecting trouble.

There are soldiers between Sukhumvit Soi 13 and Soi 15. They have been there for about a week.... some sort of checkpoint, I think.... a weird place to have a checkpoint. Nothing else on those backroads from Asoke to Nana.

I think you'll find there's an International School at the end of Soi 15.

[Jingthing]

Has there ever been fair elections in thailand?

i think not.

There is much room for improvement in that area. However, legal and fair are not the same thing.