Bangkok: Policeman Killed, 7 Policemen, 2 Civilians Injured In Double Attacks

[Publicus]

And the so-called democracies should mind their own business and clean their own houses first. Thailand is a sovereign kingdom and not a colony of the so called democratic west (actually a form of corporatism). Thailand should turn East not West.... To China especially....

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is a direct quote from one of your posts.

"Marx wrote an essay about the power of money in capitalist society, and thaksin is a prime example to prove Marx's words... Prime Minister Abhisit is far more a progressive than and even to the left of socially than former prime minister

and fugitive Thaksin."

So you like Red China?

That is where Thailand should go for leadership?

I think most Thais would strongly disagree with you.

For sure, the ruling class would dislike your view.

So are you against the reds but for red China?

You say Thailand should lean to China but you hate socialism and communism?

Strange fews

I said I hate socialism? Where...? I have admired China since I was a teen in the 60s. And yes I like China. And most Thai I talk to see the West as declining in power and China gaining the ascendancy as the superpower of the 21st century, while the West rests on the laurels of the first half of the 20th century.... Indeed Thailand is gradually moving closer to China economically and strategically. The sun is setting on the West and rising in the East...

Against the reds and for China - there is co correlation between the redshirts and China other than that some are former maoists (such as Dr. Weng) who have now sold their souls to Thaksin. There is no significant communist or left movement in Thailand, and the reds are in no way socialist, no more than Hitler's SA who usurped socialist rhetoric for a fascist and racist agenda. Though whether China is socialist any longer or not is a subject that is open to debate...

You might find yourself surprised by how much admiration there is for China amongst Thais, unless of course your associations are primarily bargirls... Everyone I speak too see China as the center in this century.

If the redshirts were genuine socialists instead of a billionaire's private army their complaints of social injustice might resound with me, though I find I like the Thai way of things. But I like the Thai monarchy and have embraced the concept of Dhammic Socialism espoused by Buddhadasa. As it is however, their slogans are no more than empty rhetoric aimed at the return of a genuine reactionary to a position of power in Thailand.

As it is in Thailand I see no need for faux revolutionaries cloaking themselves in left rhetoric.

And I support the monarchy here, perhaps the only place in the world where I can say that,

So please before you ascribe things to me, get your facts straight dear Mr. Bradley. You can read right? I just wonder because you ascribe sentiments to me that I never expressed or seem to assume that I should support the reds... Mr. Bradley am I correct that you mistakenly consider the reds socialist? And that you therefore blindly support them because of that mistaken assumption? Or is it beyond your cognitive abilities to recognize the incongruence between their rhetoric and their support for a billionaire along with their violent actions against anyone who disagrees with them?

Mr Bradley China will eclipse all the Western countries to rise in the 21st century to be the economic, technological, scientific, and military power of the 21st century. And China is where countries in the East, including Thailand, will shift their alliances. But this is Thailand Mr. Bradley and the redshirts are the topic. Where has China indicated any support for the reds? And where has China criticized Thailand in the slightest. Unlike the failed democracies of the West that tell Thailand to placate these terrorists while using drones to take out Al Qaeda leaders and dang anyone who is near them in the process....

If I had belief in the West I would still be there, instead of in a kingdom that I love and would die for, and which I don't want to see destroyed by redshirt tyranny. And the tyrants in Thailand are indeed in the red camp. The Prime Minister is probably the most intelligent and articulate figure in Thai politics today though I have come to appreciate and respect Newin Chidchob.

Gimme a break Mr. Bradley please... Read before you write... Hopefully you are not teacher here...

Thailand is a socioeconomic miniature scale of the People's Republic of China - half the population of each country live on less than USD $2 a day, are agricultural, rural, poorly or undereducated, resentful of the other half of the populations that are making it and neither group that is left behind in either country accept or trust their leaders or political systems.

Indeed, as has been pointed out by China analysists, Philip Bowering to name one in Hong Kong, the present events of Thailand are the future events of the People's Republic of China. However, as demonstrated in Tianaman Square on June 4th 1989, the ruthless and heartless Communist Party of China leadership in Beijing are not Abhisit or Anupong - the cold blooded and self serving PRChinese owners of the Middle Kingdom will mass murder as many fellow Chinese as necessary to continue in their positions of corrupt wealth, absolute power, censoring control of their nation of sheeple, their anti-democratic designs against the world and much more that makes a classic Western liberal prepare for an eventual military confrontation.

If you like the People's Republic of China be prepared to be blocked and censored from Facebook, YouTube, all and any outside media (Iran Official State TV is however welcome and broadcast in the PRC), and to militate against democracy and prosperity in Taiwan - indeed, throughout the world. The defunct Soviet Union had declared itself the wave of the future, its one time premier Kruschev having once pridefully pronounced to the West, "We will bury you." Both Kruschev and the USSR are long gone, long interred, as the People's Republic of China also will be, along with bin Laden and his gang of their own similar brand of fascism.

There is much more hope in Thailand for peaceful resolution of developing socioeconomic demands and improvements than there is in the fascist People's Republic or China where all disputes and dissent always are settled from the business end of the barrels of guns and tanks. There is nothing in the People's Republic of China that is settled otherwise by its dictators, its new dynasty of emperors in business suits (a young and nervous dynasty indeed).

Pity and beware the Reds who are rightfully free to post their fascist views in support of the People's Republic of China. Do continue to do so, directly or indirectly as I and countless others need to know the declared enemies of freedom, democracy, prosperity, human development and human rights.

Edited May 9, 2010 by Publicus

[justasken]

And the so-called democracies should mind their own business and clean their own houses first. Thailand is a sovereign kingdom and not a colony of the so called democratic west (actually a form of corporatism). Thailand should turn East not West.... To China especially....

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is a direct quote from one of your posts.

"Marx wrote an essay about the power of money in capitalist society, and thaksin is a prime example to prove Marx's words... Prime Minister Abhisit is far more a progressive than and even to the left of socially than former prime minister

and fugitive Thaksin."

So you like Red China?

That is where Thailand should go for leadership?

I think most Thais would strongly disagree with you.

For sure, the ruling class would dislike your view.

So are you against the reds but for red China?

You say Thailand should lean to China but you hate socialism and communism?

Strange fews

I said I hate socialism? Where...? I have admired China since I was a teen in the 60s. And yes I like China. And most Thai I talk to see the West as declining in power and China gaining the ascendancy as the superpower of the 21st century, while the West rests on the laurels of the first half of the 20th century.... Indeed Thailand is gradually moving closer to China economically and strategically. The sun is setting on the West and rising in the East...

Against the reds and for China - there is co correlation between the redshirts and China other than that some are former maoists (such as Dr. Weng) who have now sold their souls to Thaksin. There is no significant communist or left movement in Thailand, and the reds are in no way socialist, no more than Hitler's SA who usurped socialist rhetoric for a fascist and racist agenda. Though whether China is socialist any longer or not is a subject that is open to debate...

You might find yourself surprised by how much admiration there is for China amongst Thais, unless of course your associations are primarily bargirls... Everyone I speak too see China as the center in this century.

If the redshirts were genuine socialists instead of a billionaire's private army their complaints of social injustice might resound with me, though I find I like the Thai way of things. But I like the Thai monarchy and have embraced the concept of Dhammic Socialism espoused by Buddhadasa. As it is however, their slogans are no more than empty rhetoric aimed at the return of a genuine reactionary to a position of power in Thailand.

As it is in Thailand I see no need for faux revolutionaries cloaking themselves in left rhetoric.

And I support the monarchy here, perhaps the only place in the world where I can say that,

So please before you ascribe things to me, get your facts straight dear Mr. Bradley. You can read right? I just wonder because you ascribe sentiments to me that I never expressed or seem to assume that I should support the reds... Mr. Bradley am I correct that you mistakenly consider the reds socialist? And that you therefore blindly support them because of that mistaken assumption? Or is it beyond your cognitive abilities to recognize the incongruence between their rhetoric and their support for a billionaire along with their violent actions against anyone who disagrees with them?

Mr Bradley China will eclipse all the Western countries to rise in the 21st century to be the economic, technological, scientific, and military power of the 21st century. And China is where countries in the East, including Thailand, will shift their alliances. But this is Thailand Mr. Bradley and the redshirts are the topic. Where has China indicated any support for the reds? And where has China criticized Thailand in the slightest. Unlike the failed democracies of the West that tell Thailand to placate these terrorists while using drones to take out Al Qaeda leaders and dang anyone who is near them in the process....

If I had belief in the West I would still be there, instead of in a kingdom that I love and would die for, and which I don't want to see destroyed by redshirt tyranny. And the tyrants in Thailand are indeed in the red camp. The Prime Minister is probably the most intelligent and articulate figure in Thai politics today though I have come to appreciate and respect Newin Chidchob.

Gimme a break Mr. Bradley please... Read before you write... Hopefully you are not teacher here...

Like you, I like A pretty Chinese woman, but that is hardly a reason to defend the government in China is it.

About Economic growth?

Well it goes something like this.

If China were to keep growing at 10% a year in GDP for the next 50 years, it would be close to the GDP of the United States but still slightly behind.

But we all know that as an economy matures, its potential for rapid growth becomes far less.

Also, the United States continues to grow rapidly in population. China of course is not growing. This will also add to the growth in the USA and lesson the potential for growth in China as time goes forward.

But back to Thailand now.

The Thai ruling class that you say you love hates the ruling powers in China.

Likely you love Asian women.

Fair enuff.

But that is NO reason to like the backward and stupid governments in Thailand and China is it.

Just kiss the girls and relax.

Thailand has major growing pains and the people in Issan do not seem to be too fond of the current government.

Maybe if you were called the names they are called, you would not be too happy either.

[yoshiwara]

The present government WAS elected, just as much as the Thaksin puppet PM's that preceded it. Why do the red shirts continue to repeat the lie that Abhisit wasn't legitimately elected? It hurts their credibility even more, not that their reputation can be damaged much further.

Because Abhisit would have never gotten to power if the army didn't first remove a legitimately elected government with the coup. How hard is that to understand? I keep seeing people blame the red shirts for the deaths and injuries, saying if they never came to protest, the people wouldn't have died or gotten injured.

Well, the same thing applies to the coup. If the army didn't make the coup, the red shirts would have never had to protest and therefor the people wouldn't have died or gotten injured. So really, the deaths are the army's fault, aren't they?

Using the same argument

If Thaskin had not been so currupt

the army would have never held a coup

the red shirts would have never had to protest

innocent people wouldn't have died because of the protest

So really, the deaths are Thaskin's fault, aren't they?

I thought we'd already put the blame on Adam & Eve? Why perpetuate this crap?

Because that is his style.

[OzMick]

It´s about time now to arrest these criminals!

And who would they be? The present government who stole power and were never elected or the poor farmers and working class who want a democratically elected government. While I don't condone the violence it is never clear who is committing it. As a guest in thailand I suggest that you respect the will of the the people for a demoncratic governmen I am sure you would not settle for less in your country.

Sometimes it's the slip that gives it away! "respect the will of the the people for a demoncratic governmen"

Exactly how I would describe a red-shirt government!

[moetownblues]

A lot of people on here shoot from the hip so to speak. They are very anti red and have no idea of the problems in Thailand they make assumption without doing any research.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrxal4JgbzA&h...xcd311b

If some people listened and learnt from these academics then they will be retracting a few of thier anti thai / anti red comments. These people are very well qualified to speak on this problem.

[brahmburgers]

Back on topic......

It is said that police, like the ones gunned down/bombed 2 days ago, were only armed with batons. Do they not even have sidearms? It must have been profoundly frustrating for any nearby cops to witness the murders, yet not being able to respond other than shout or wave a little stick. Yesterday I heard a top cop was ordering the cops on the beat be issued with firearms, yet it's not sure whether that's actually happened. At least some of the security troops there should have high powered rifles (and know how to use them).

Do the SEC forces there have bulletproof vests?

Someone earlier on this thread mentioned that cops shouldn't have guns because of the possibility of 'friendly fire' injuries. That's legit up to a point. However, parts of Bangkok have been occupied by terrorist-harboring rowdies. Everyone knows this, so anyone who doesn't have business in those areas should stay away. .....or be spectators at their own peril.

You can't effectively counter combat weapons with a lacquered stick.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: rolling armored vehicles, supported by armed troops, going in and cleaning up the Red infection of downtown Bkk would be completely justified. The Reds have been given an overly fair offer which they've accepted. They have no reason to stay downtown. They're breaking the law every minute, and are harboring combatants with military weapons.

Indeed, the main reason they're stalling is because of those combatants and their combat weapons. They're spooked by the prospect of being searched when they leave. Perhaps the cops will, for once, do their jobs well (doing searches), and actually confiscate weapons and arrest and seriously detain the bad guys. .....well, we're all allowed a bit of wishful thinking, anyway.

[ozzieman05]

And the so-called democracies should mind their own business and clean their own houses first. Thailand is a sovereign kingdom and not a colony of the so called democratic west (actually a form of corporatism). Thailand should turn East not West.... To China especially....

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is a direct quote from one of your posts.

"Marx wrote an essay about the power of money in capitalist society, and thaksin is a prime example to prove Marx's words... Prime Minister Abhisit is far more a progressive than and even to the left of socially than former prime minister

and fugitive Thaksin."

So you like Red China?

That is where Thailand should go for leadership?

I think most Thais would strongly disagree with you.

For sure, the ruling class would dislike your view.

So are you against the reds but for red China?

You say Thailand should lean to China but you hate socialism and communism?

Strange fews

I said I hate socialism? Where...? I have admired China since I was a teen in the 60s. And yes I like China. And most Thai I talk to see the West as declining in power and China gaining the ascendancy as the superpower of the 21st century, while the West rests on the laurels of the first half of the 20th century.... Indeed Thailand is gradually moving closer to China economically and strategically. The sun is setting on the West and rising in the East...

Against the reds and for China - there is co correlation between the redshirts and China other than that some are former maoists (such as Dr. Weng) who have now sold their souls to Thaksin. There is no significant communist or left movement in Thailand, and the reds are in no way socialist, no more than Hitler's SA who usurped socialist rhetoric for a fascist and racist agenda. Though whether China is socialist any longer or not is a subject that is open to debate...

You might find yourself surprised by how much admiration there is for China amongst Thais, unless of course your associations are primarily bargirls... Everyone I speak too see China as the center in this century.

If the redshirts were genuine socialists instead of a billionaire's private army their complaints of social injustice might resound with me, though I find I like the Thai way of things. But I like the Thai monarchy and have embraced the concept of Dhammic Socialism espoused by Buddhadasa. As it is however, their slogans are no more than empty rhetoric aimed at the return of a genuine reactionary to a position of power in Thailand.

As it is in Thailand I see no need for faux revolutionaries cloaking themselves in left rhetoric.

And I support the monarchy here, perhaps the only place in the world where I can say that,

So please before you ascribe things to me, get your facts straight dear Mr. Bradley. You can read right? I just wonder because you ascribe sentiments to me that I never expressed or seem to assume that I should support the reds... Mr. Bradley am I correct that you mistakenly consider the reds socialist? And that you therefore blindly support them because of that mistaken assumption? Or is it beyond your cognitive abilities to recognize the incongruence between their rhetoric and their support for a billionaire along with their violent actions against anyone who disagrees with them?

Mr Bradley China will eclipse all the Western countries to rise in the 21st century to be the economic, technological, scientific, and military power of the 21st century. And China is where countries in the East, including Thailand, will shift their alliances. But this is Thailand Mr. Bradley and the redshirts are the topic. Where has China indicated any support for the reds? And where has China criticized Thailand in the slightest. Unlike the failed democracies of the West that tell Thailand to placate these terrorists while using drones to take out Al Qaeda leaders and dang anyone who is near them in the process....

If I had belief in the West I would still be there, instead of in a kingdom that I love and would die for, and which I don't want to see destroyed by redshirt tyranny. And the tyrants in Thailand are indeed in the red camp. The Prime Minister is probably the most intelligent and articulate figure in Thai politics today though I have come to appreciate and respect Newin Chidchob.

Gimme a break Mr. Bradley please... Read before you write... Hopefully you are not teacher here...

You are NOT Thai.

Why do you dislike your place of birth.

Strange.

The poor of Thailand support the Reds.

You say you are a leftist.

You are confused in backing the current government.

It is a puppet of the ruling families who have done over 17 coups.

You like Red China? The ruling 20 families hate the communists.

You love Thailand and China?

Oh well. Keep up the good work.

My Thai wifes family and friend all come for the poor villages in Issan

She wants to let you know you are wrong Mak mak

They all hate the reds and think they are just bullies

Time to change your thinking

[ozzieman05]

The present government WAS elected, just as much as the Thaksin puppet PM's that preceded it. Why do the red shirts continue to repeat the lie that Abhisit wasn't legitimately elected? It hurts their credibility even more, not that their reputation can be damaged much further.

Because Abhisit would have never gotten to power if the army didn't first remove a legitimately elected government with the coup. How hard is that to understand? I keep seeing people blame the red shirts for the deaths and injuries, saying if they never came to protest, the people wouldn't have died or gotten injured.

Well, the same thing applies to the coup. If the army didn't make the coup, the red shirts would have never had to protest and therefor the people wouldn't have died or gotten injured. So really, the deaths are the army's fault, aren't they?

Using the same argument

If Thaskin had not been so currupt

the army would have never held a coup

the red shirts would have never had to protest

innocent people wouldn't have died because of the protest

So really, the deaths are Thaskin's fault, aren't they?

I thought we'd already put the blame on Adam & Eve? Why perpetuate this crap?

The problem here is you are correct

You can keep going back till the time of Adam and Eve

So saying the army or the PM is solely to blame is nothing but and empty conclusion

IT TAKES 2 TO TANGO

Also is very correct in this situation

[nakachalet]

You are NOT Thai.

Why do you dislike your place of birth.

Strange.

The poor of Thailand support the Reds.

You say you are a leftist.

You are confused in backing the current government.

It is a puppet of the ruling families who have done over 17 coups.

You like Red China? The ruling 20 families hate the communists.

You love Thailand and China?

Oh well. Keep up the good work.

Hi Tom....

just want clarify some of your statement and understanding in reference to:

1--the current govt is a puppet of the ruling families....?

did you know this for sure....? or do you just repeating what some others said....?

members of the family does not hand down order to govt.... only on very rare occasion, that someone is summoned to have an audience.... yes, i spoke from personal knowledge.

2--the ruling family done 17 coups....?

again, did you do a primary search on this....? or did you just heard or read something to that effects....?

the family members felt the hurt and pain of the innocents.... each has tremendous compassion.... none would seek personal glorification.... not that any needs it....

if you recalled, a year or so back, a no-name lady passed away, caused by some uncalled for govt aggression.... at the latest moment, mourners were informed that the princess would pay respect and tribute....

as the vehicle approached.... there was pin-drop silence.... everyone was expecting to see the youngest princess....

however, suddenly.... there were bursts of cheers.... then loud shouts of SONG-PRA-JA-REARN.... SONG-PRA-JA-REARN.... SONG-PRA-JA-REARN....

instead of a princess.... out stepped the royal majesty queen herself....

the queen told the family members and the mourners.... how very deeply and sadly she and her entire family members felt....

she again won the heart of the nation.... during the darkest hours....

tom.... i am quite confident that history would not support your allegation at all....

however, if you have any contradictory historical evidence.... pls do share with us....

[brahmburgers]

The poor of Thailand support the Reds.

My Thai wife's family and friends all come for the poor villages in Issan

She wants to let you know you are wrong Mak mak

They all hate the reds and think they are just bullies

Time to change your thinking

Thanks Ozzieman05 for putting things in perspective. The Reds and various incarnations of TRT had just under 50% of public support at their peak. Judging from the max estimate of 100k supporters (near all of them paid) at the height of their attendance at the early days of the recent rallies, and then the average few thousand per day (still mostly paid and not allowed to leave) during most of the ensuing days of the rally (whew, sorry for the long sentence) ......The Reds, by all measures, are a sagging force that is slowly dissipating to insignificance.

Anyone stating "The poor of Thailand support the Reds" is a fool and probably trying to amp up the tiny sputtering of support Reds appear to have from their paid attendees.

I reside in a poor region of Thailand, and the folks here don't support the Reds in any visible way. I gauge this from the complete lack of Red insignia anywhere, and the 99% empty plastic seats at their rally site downtown Chiang Rai. That's right, out of 200 seats put out every day, to watch the big screen TV, only once has there been more than 2 seats occupied - and I drive by there twice a day for the past months.

Even the four old women selling bananas (the only group of Red supporters I've seen locally) .....were wearing red shirts for two days when the rallies started, with T's picture on them - and even they haven't been wearing Red for the past 3 weeks.

Reds won't allow free and fair elections when the time comes (they've proven to bully other candidates and voters), but if the upcoming elections are remotely fair, it will show the Reds are losing support faster than a red party balloon left in the Sahara desert.

Edited May 9, 2010 by brahmburgers

[christiaan]

To understand the situation in Thailand better I try to imagine Thailand people, Thailand culture, as a personality, as a unique individuality with very specific qualities by wich it differs from the other cultures 'personalities' in the world. This personality, like any other personality, is in a proces of development, of transformation. I have the impression this 'personality' at the moment has entered the adolescence state. This personality is nearing adulthood, allthough it is possible that entering adulthood stil will take quite a long time for Thailand.

I do not want to qualify Thai culture or the Thai people in any way, I do not want to express some kind of judgement, what I write is an effort, by observation, to understand the situation as it is.

Many of the events of the situation as we can see now in Thailand are events one can expect when, lets say 400 adolescent would start to live together on an Island, with all resources and tools to live and who are told to take care their own problems all by them self. Can you imagine what would happen when something like that would be organised with any group of adolescence of any culture in the world?

Just like China, Thailand 'personality' did came to a more problematic situation of life in the confrontation with Western culture 'personalities' in the past.

China and Thailand, and many other cultures are in the past confronted with very fast developing adult, selfaware, commercial, cool thinking, selfish, western cultures.

Communisme in China was not a Chinese (social) invention, it was imported by active Farang, and some of these communist Farang even pointed in the early days at Mao as a suitable leader of the commust party.

And as we know this Mao actually did became the new 'Emperor' of China, this time an Emperor disguised in a working suit, supported by his court of communist party officials.

It did bring a lot of disaster to that country.

I would absolutely not plead for Thailand to look at China and I would plead for Thailand to take more distance from the cold commercial material attitude of the Western cultures.

I would strongly plead for Thailand to develop, to transform, their own Thai cutural 'personality' to adulthood by them self. Thailand has a lot of qualities, in fact a unique combination of qualities, by wich it could develop from the level of adolescence to a very special valuable 'individuality' amongst other cultural 'individualities' in the world.

Any intervention of other cultures in the world, not wanted, and not desired by the Thai people, would only obstruct the Thai development to adaulthood.

When an individuality, a personality is transforming to adulthood, one of the characteristics of this change is that it has to make this step mainly by itself becos that is the way to discover the qualities of the self.

As we can see by the adolescents in our families, this time of adolescence is characterised by chaos, confusion, and often - personal - tragedies. But this has to happen in the action of transformation.

At the moment we have to 'witness' all these - tragic - times/events in the daily life of Thailand.

(excuse my English, I am not a native English speaker)

[way2muchcoffee]

No, it starts with Adam and Eve.

Now now. No need to blame Adam. It was all Eve's fault! She ate that dam_n apple. Then again we could just as well blame God for putting the apple there in the first place just to tempt her....

[way2muchcoffee]

They were "puppets" alright, but at least their parties were democratically elected. Not "coup-installed" after the army general pushed the small coalition parties towards forming an alliance with the Democrats.

Oh, but they too were illegitimate because they would never have been in government if there hadn't been a coup. At least according to your arguments. In fact, every government from now on must be illegitimate. And actually all governments of Thailand have been illegitimate given that they all followed coups.

Edited May 9, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[Ulysses G.]

China and Thailand, and many other cultures are in the past confronted with very fast developing adult, selfaware, commercial, cool thinking, selfish, western cultures.

I think what you are trying to say is, it is all Bush's fault.

[brahmburgers]

They were "puppets" alright, but at least their parties were democratically elected. Not "coup-installed" after the army general pushed the small coalition parties towards forming an alliance with the Democrats.

Oh, but they too were illegitimate because they would never have been in government if there hadn't been a coup. At least according to your arguments. In fact, every government from now on must be illegitimate. And actually all governments of Thailand have been illegitimate given that they all followed coups.

All that coffee must be enabling you to be way too logical. Thais don't look at things from a logical perspective. Instead it's a mix of superstition, rote learning and emotionally-tainted subjectivity of the moment.

[whybother]

The present government WAS elected, just as much as the Thaksin puppet PM's that preceded it. Why do the red shirts continue to repeat the lie that Abhisit wasn't legitimately elected? It hurts their credibility even more, not that their reputation can be damaged much further.

Because Abhisit would have never gotten to power if the army didn't first remove a legitimately elected government with the coup. How hard is that to understand? I keep seeing people blame the red shirts for the deaths and injuries, saying if they never came to protest, the people wouldn't have died or gotten injured.

Well, the same thing applies to the coup. If the army didn't make the coup, the red shirts would have never had to protest and therefor the people wouldn't have died or gotten injured. So really, the deaths are the army's fault, aren't they?

Do a bit of research into how legitimate and elected the Thaksin government was at the time of the coup.

Just to give you an idea: He was care-taker PM appointed by the King at the time of the coup.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Yes, definitely God's fault.

He didn't strike down the Democtrat party guy swith lightning bolts when they boycotted elections, helping to force the disastrous coup.

Edited May 9, 2010 by WinnieTheKhwai

[Herm]

To understand the situation in Thailand better I try to imagine Thailand people, Thailand culture, as a personality, as a unique individuality with very specific qualities by wich it differs from the other cultures 'personalities' in the world.

This person would be safely locked up in Dartmoor

= loony bin for the criminally insane

Edited May 9, 2010 by Herm

[justasken]

You are NOT Thai.

Why do you dislike your place of birth.

Strange.

The poor of Thailand support the Reds.

You say you are a leftist.

You are confused in backing the current government.

It is a puppet of the ruling families who have done over 17 coups.

You like Red China? The ruling 20 families hate the communists.

You love Thailand and China?

Oh well. Keep up the good work.

Hi Tom....

just want clarify some of your statement and understanding in reference to:

1--the current govt is a puppet of the ruling families....?

did you know this for sure....? or do you just repeating what some others said....?

members of the family does not hand down order to govt.... only on very rare occasion, that someone is summoned to have an audience.... yes, i spoke from personal knowledge.

2--the ruling family done 17 coups....?

again, did you do a primary search on this....? or did you just heard or read something to that effects....?

the family members felt the hurt and pain of the innocents.... each has tremendous compassion.... none would seek personal glorification.... not that any needs it....

if you recalled, a year or so back, a no-name lady passed away, caused by some uncalled for govt aggression.... at the latest moment, mourners were informed that the princess would pay respect and tribute....

as the vehicle approached.... there was pin-drop silence.... everyone was expecting to see the youngest princess....

however, suddenly.... there were bursts of cheers.... then loud shouts of SONG-PRA-JA-REARN.... SONG-PRA-JA-REARN.... SONG-PRA-JA-REARN....

instead of a princess.... out stepped the royal majesty queen herself....

the queen told the family members and the mourners.... how very deeply and sadly she and her entire family members felt....

she again won the heart of the nation.... during the darkest hours....

tom.... i am quite confident that history would not support your allegation at all....

however, if you have any contradictory historical evidence.... pls do share with us....

I read his post.

He said ruling families. Then he said 20 families.

Obviously this is refering to money power people and he made no mention of the royal family. Your attack is unfair and low.

But it is just p[art of the nonsense that happens in politics.

[whybother]

You are NOT Thai.

Why do you dislike your place of birth.

Strange.

The poor of Thailand support the Reds.

You say you are a leftist.

You are confused in backing the current government.

It is a puppet of the ruling families who have done over 17 coups.

You like Red China? The ruling 20 families hate the communists.

You love Thailand and China?

Oh well. Keep up the good work.

Hi Tom....

just want clarify some of your statement and understanding in reference to:

1--the current govt is a puppet of the ruling families....?

did you know this for sure....? or do you just repeating what some others said....?

members of the family does not hand down order to govt.... only on very rare occasion, that someone is summoned to have an audience.... yes, i spoke from personal knowledge.

2--the ruling family done 17 coups....?

again, did you do a primary search on this....? or did you just heard or read something to that effects....?

the family members felt the hurt and pain of the innocents.... each has tremendous compassion.... none would seek personal glorification.... not that any needs it....

if you recalled, a year or so back, a no-name lady passed away, caused by some uncalled for govt aggression.... at the latest moment, mourners were informed that the princess would pay respect and tribute....

as the vehicle approached.... there was pin-drop silence.... everyone was expecting to see the youngest princess....

however, suddenly.... there were bursts of cheers.... then loud shouts of SONG-PRA-JA-REARN.... SONG-PRA-JA-REARN.... SONG-PRA-JA-REARN....

instead of a princess.... out stepped the royal majesty queen herself....

the queen told the family members and the mourners.... how very deeply and sadly she and her entire family members felt....

she again won the heart of the nation.... during the darkest hours....

tom.... i am quite confident that history would not support your allegation at all....

however, if you have any contradictory historical evidence.... pls do share with us....

I read his post.

He said ruling families. Then he said 20 families.

Obviously this is refering to money power people and he made no mention of the royal family. Your attack is unfair and low.

But it is just p[art of the nonsense that happens in politics.

You didn't read close enough - "The ruling 20 families ..."

[granuaile]

You are NOT Thai.

Why do you dislike your place of birth.

Strange.

The poor of Thailand support the Reds.

You say you are a leftist.

You are confused in backing the current government.

It is a puppet of the ruling families who have done over 17 coups.

You like Red China? The ruling 20 families hate the communists.

You love Thailand and China?

Oh well. Keep up the good work.

Poor poor Tommy... No I am not Thai and never said I was. Presumably neither are you. I am also not Chinese. I happen to be an American of Irish, Cherokee and Shawnee blood and a smattering of other. In fact my family was in America before there was a United States and several of my ancestors fought in hte revolution. So what? They didn't fight for corporate democracy that exists in the so-called "democracies" of the West. I'm in Thailand because I love Thailand. I sympathize with the yellows and most of my friends are yellows and multishirts. I have one friend that is openly a red sympathizer around me. I never said I dislike the place of my birth. I happen to love Thailand more, though, especially as I have become disgusted with the way politics swings every few years from progressive to reactionary. I actually like Obama. But I know in the next elections or in a few years it will swing back to the worn politics of the reactionary right. If we had a Kucinich-Sanders administration I might like to come home. As it is though I much prefer Thailand, and I would miss the laap muu. Where did I ever say I dislike my country of birth? I choose not to live there Tommy... And you too I think, or are you an armchair revolutionary sitting on a couch in a Western country with your laptop on your belly? Again Tommy please read what I say before making statements. Why are you here... As I said I am here because I love this country, I love the King, I love the Prime Minister, and I love the Thai people. A large percentage of (a majority even?) have Chinese ancestry.

You say the poor of Thailand support the reds, not entirely accurate. People - both poor and the privileged - from one region support the redshirts. Poor and privileged from other regions do not, so to say the poor of Thailand support the redshirts is false. Go to the South and say that. Please... The redshirts leadership and Thaksin are using the poor of that region. While they live in comfort the redshirt rank and file sleep on the streets and are threatened with beatings if they try to leave. As the wife of one victim of the APril 10 shootings said, the redshirts put them between the troops and themselves hiding behind the poor. A base use of impoverished people by red leaders and Thaksin. Pay them to come here, but hold their ID cards and hold them hostage here.

I did not say I am a leftist, though I once leaned towards a left wind. In many ways I still do. However, I believe in the concept of dhammic socialism espoused by Buddhadasa, which upholds the monarchy but has no idle faith in democracy. See "Democracy in the Light of Buddhadasa" in Journal of the World Buddhist University v4 n2 for a discussion of democracy.

Abhisit is a puppet? What is your insight into this. You have access to the workings of the inner circles of the Thai government? Or merely access to red propaganda? The ruling families of Thailand hate China? I think you need to look again. As I noted calling China socialist or communist any longer is debatable. Many would argue it merely wears the trappings of socialism, some on the left consider it a "deformed workers state." Personally I love and respect the China of Li Bai as much as I love the China of Sun Yat-Sen, Soong Ching-Ling, and Mao Zedong. But I forget you have deep insight into the working of the Thai ruling family (though from where I would ask?) so you know, yes they hate China. Keep telling yourself that as the West alienates Thailand and Thailand looks to it's northern brother and develops alliances of it's own here in Asia.

So again you fail to read anything it seems and imply:

I hate the land of my birth. False

I am a leftist. Left on some things right on others. I do have a signed copy of A Peoples History of the United States. As well as Custer Died for Your Sins. Maybe more left than right.

I am confused in backing the government. False, I am not confused. I am basing it on what my senses perceive. I would suggest that your writings are confused however.

I love China. I have had a deep respect for China over more than 40 years, have become acquainted with many who were or are expats in China, including Joan Hinton, William Hinton, and Robert Williams.

I love China and Thailand? Yes I do, and the Cincinnati Reds (no connection with Thailand's reds )

So please get your facts in order. Do not try to spout rhetoric. The redshirt leaders you are an apologist for are far better, and they are not very good.

[justasken]

You are NOT Thai.

Why do you dislike your place of birth.

Strange.

The poor of Thailand support the Reds.

You say you are a leftist.

You are confused in backing the current government.

It is a puppet of the ruling families who have done over 17 coups.

You like Red China? The ruling 20 families hate the communists.

You love Thailand and China?

Oh well. Keep up the good work.

Hi Tom....

just want clarify some of your statement and understanding in reference to:

1--the current govt is a puppet of the ruling families....?

did you know this for sure....? or do you just repeating what some others said....?

members of the family does not hand down order to govt.... only on very rare occasion, that someone is summoned to have an audience.... yes, i spoke from personal knowledge.

2--the ruling family done 17 coups....?

again, did you do a primary search on this....? or did you just heard or read something to that effects....?

the family members felt the hurt and pain of the innocents.... each has tremendous compassion.... none would seek personal glorification.... not that any needs it....

if you recalled, a year or so back, a no-name lady passed away, caused by some uncalled for govt aggression.... at the latest moment, mourners were informed that the princess would pay respect and tribute....

as the vehicle approached.... there was pin-drop silence.... everyone was expecting to see the youngest princess....

however, suddenly.... there were bursts of cheers.... then loud shouts of SONG-PRA-JA-REARN.... SONG-PRA-JA-REARN.... SONG-PRA-JA-REARN....

instead of a princess.... out stepped the royal majesty queen herself....

the queen told the family members and the mourners.... how very deeply and sadly she and her entire family members felt....

she again won the heart of the nation.... during the darkest hours....

tom.... i am quite confident that history would not support your allegation at all....

however, if you have any contradictory historical evidence.... pls do share with us....

I read his post.

He said ruling families. Then he said 20 families.

Obviously this is refering to money power people and he made no mention of the royal family. Your attack is unfair and low.

But it is just p[art of the nonsense that happens in politics.

Also

I am reading a story from The Economist and it says 18 coups since 1932.

You should apologize to Tom.

You can google the story

The Economist, Thailand's military coup

Old soldiers, old habits

The land of smiles is back to being the land of coups

[Herm]

Yes, definitely God's fault.

He didn't strike down the Democtrat party guy swith lightning bolts when they boycotted elections, helping to force the disastrous coup.

A lot of people here seem to be unable to understand why the last coup too place -

Thaksin had already turned Thailand into his personal PLC making huge sums of money by dealing in any way he wanted since he felt himself to be invincible. The only thing left for him to achieve was to have his family members and close supporters in all the key government and military positions and he would have been invincible. His master-plan was made obvious when he already moved certain people into such positions, at which point the army initiated the coup.

The only person(s) to blame for the coup is Thaksin and his supporters.

The same people who are now trying to get him back via a coup through terrorist attacks, false claims and by using the IQ challenged masses from Isaan as canon fodder.

If you base your view of the situation on pure fact, not emotions, not red propaganda, it is actually very simple. Thaksin has financed this operation and his lieutenants are carrying it out faithfully, being instructed by him as and when necessary.

It should also be clear, that the "black shirts" (the ones shooting and throwing bombs, grenades etc..) are part of his master-plan since he knew that without anarchy he could not achieve his goal of destabilizing the government to force parliament to be dissolved prior to the re-shuffle and his supporters to gain the upper hand in control over the country, preparing all that is needed for his return.

Even the contradicting information given by the red shirt leaders is nothing but an aim to confuse the issue since "Abhisits" road map is the last Thaksin wants to see implemented.

In reality, Abhisits road map should have been viewed by the reds as a great success and they should be preparing to leave, having succeeded to force the government to agree to early elections. You will see however, that this is not going to happen since the leaders main goal has not been achieved as yet.

Chaos and anarchy is what he needs and this is what is happening.

The only solution in my opinion, a military coup to regain control over the capital. The culprits, all red leaders and those who committed crimes during the mob rule need to be arrested and punished. Anyone found guilty of murder or treason should be punished by death as the Thai law dictates.

I was once told by an anthropologist that the Thai's in general do not think logical, but emotional. This is pretty clear and logic has nothing to do with the current situation. Very harsh punishment of those involved will ensure that there will be no repeat and will show that Thaksins rain is over. An important lesson they have to learn.

Edited May 9, 2010 by Herm

[jdinasia]

You are NOT Thai.

Why do you dislike your place of birth.

Strange.

The poor of Thailand support the Reds.

You say you are a leftist.

You are confused in backing the current government.

It is a puppet of the ruling families who have done over 17 coups.

You like Red China? The ruling 20 families hate the communists.

You love Thailand and China?

Oh well. Keep up the good work.

We can only assume that tombradly has never BEEN to Thailand or china by his posts.

"The poor of Thailand support the Reds" just isn't even close to accurate. The reds have VERY limited support and most of that is limited to areas where Thaksin has made payouts personally or in a non-sustainable way from the taxpayer's pockets. (noting that Thaksin avoided paying taxes!)

Backing the current government is certainly backing the poor of Thailand far better than backing a Thaksin group. The current government has done more for socialised medicine and education and land reform and debt relief than Thaksin ever did. In fact Thaksin CAUSED more debt in order to control the poor and not help them.

Comparing Thailand and China is not only silly but at best the comparisons you can create are facile.

Bradley's ideas on coups don't explain all the coups, bradley's ideas about "20 families" don't explain the money or power structure in Thailand (or more accurately you could talk about "20 families" EVERYWHERE.

The people supporting the reds are supporting armed insurrection, treason, and terrorism. The ones that say they are wanting negotiation and supporting the reds are supporting negotiation at swordpoint --- time for the government to remove the red sword.

[Ulysses G.]

A lot of people here seem to be unable to understand why the last coup too place -

Thanks for sharing your opinion.

[Herm]

A lot of people here seem to be unable to understand why the last coup too place -

Thanks for sharing your opinion.

highly intelligent responses such as this show clearly that the level of IQ with some members here leave a lot to be desired too - may be you should apply for a civil servant post in Isaan - facts don't seem to matter for some -

Edited May 9, 2010 by Herm

[LikeHeat]

The time has long since passed to end this so called rally. From day one it has been nothing but a shield for terrorists, and in fact reports I have read here indicate that some red leaders bragged about the April 10 incident and how they took out the army leaders (indicating close involvement). They need to be removed and order needs to be restored.

Is the current government capable? It sure does not look like it. They have all the power of law and the military behind them, and with every red incident they simply whisper another "stronger" warning. Had they used proper force in the beginning this would never have escalated and likely many fewer people would have died. Instead they cowered and watched as the reds did whatever they wanted, which only served to embolden them. Now they pretty much do whatever they want, as in the rally should be winding down and they are allowed to recruit another 2,000 people from the North. Rather than stopping them and advising they would be breaking the law, they apparently drove right in.

I really hate to say this, but, Thailand needs stability and the way to achieve that is through a military and police system that have the guts and determination to do their job. The reds would never allow such an incident in the first place and I am sure that any police or military that did not do as they were told would soon find themselves on the other side of the situation.

The reds are the only force right that can bring stability to Thailand. Unfortunately they are also the forcing bring destabilization. Funny, huh?

[Ulysses G.]

highly intelligent responses such as this show clearly that the level of IQ with some members here leave a lot to be desired too -

That is rich considering your post. Talk about "high" IQs.

Edited May 9, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[Herm]

highly intelligent responses such as this show clearly that the level of IQ with some members here leave a lot to be desired too -

That is rich considering your post. Talk about "high" IQs.

Well, you could for example try and show that my statement is wrong which you are obviously implying. That Thaksin is nothing but a misunderstood man who horded all those billions of $ to distribute them to the poor people. The only reason he placed most of the funds offshore was that he wanted to surprise them.

You can also say that he was not placing his cronies into positions of power for any other reason than feeling of love and closeness to his family.

You can also say that ...... well, but reality is so obvious that you can't really and that's why people of little intellect revert to signs or become aggressive when they have no real arguments to oppose a statement that does not suite them

Take it easy, relax and have another lao kao

[jdinasia]

A lot of people here seem to be unable to understand why the last coup too place -

Thanks for sharing your opinion.

another one-liner and a flame? good job!