For Some, Thailand's Red-shirt Protests Amplify Calls For Justice

[noahvail]

Precisely.

No Thaksin = no faux peasant uprising.

No Thaksin = Exploitation and indifference to the poors by the elite FOREVER

Sorry to point this out, but you forgot a comma:

No, Thaksin = Exploitation and indifference to the poors (sic) by the elite FOREVER

[pornsasi]

I am an anti red shirt, and I *AM* bringing Thaksin into the picture.

I want an apology for the red shirts for their contemptible support of Thaksin before I will support leniency for any of them.

Until the reds apologize to the Thai people for their attempts to pardon the criminal and stop demeaning everyone who was victimized by the crimes he committed against the country, there will be no true reconciliation and no peace.

When the reds apologize for treating the rest of the country with contempt, we can talk about what injustices they feel they have endured. They have to denounce their support of Thaksin though in order for this to happen.

The Thaksin issue will not go away no matter how much the reds try and bury it because it is inconvenient for them. And I do not buy for an instant the red lies and propaganda that Thaksin is still not a major part of their movement.

I am not red or yellow or whatever color . I fully concurr that Thaksin is a criminal , on account of his war on drugs and Tai Bak massacre , even though he has done many good things for Isaan . In this respect i just wonder why the Abhisit administration did not charge Thaksin through legal channels , which would have fully discredited the bilionaire prai not only in Thailand but in the entire world . I also think that Suthep should resign for the 10th April deaths , and face a fair court , for most the same reason , as for now he is an obstacle to reconciliation . If found innocent he could rejoin the governement at a later stage . IMHO , a coalition between the dems and PTP is the only way out of the mess and this is not going to happen with Suthep as deputy PM .

As for the reds of course they are pro Thaksin but to say that this is their only platform is to oversimplify . Many currents and divisions among the reds .

[pornsasi]

Precisely.

No Thaksin = no faux peasant uprising.

No Thaksin = Exploitation and indifference to the poors by the elite FOREVER

Sorry to point this out, but you forgot a comma:

No, Thaksin = Exploitation and indifference to the poors (sic) by the elite FOREVER

Thank you but i did not forget any comma . The world bank and most foreign economists do not concurr with you , and frankly i am more inclined to believe them rather then a few posters here . In addition to what i hear when i travel to Isaan.

[pornsasi]

And you're ignoring all the rich pooyais and business people from the villages that have been holding back the poor for decades.

The government is listening. They were doing many of these things before teh protests started. Why can't the reds go home now?

Because the goverment have not given them what they really want - a full say in things. Making a conditional offer to hold elections means nothing when those conditions can be used to renage on the commitment.

It is common practice for an elite struggling to cling to power but throwing them a few bones has not been enough. The cat is out of the bag and a few treats are not going to make it go back in as it quite likes it outside.

Next thing is they might start forming unions and asking for a decent minimum wage. How scary is that!

You're back to the original lies about this protest being all about the poor, aren't you?

So, you mean a minority (because not all the poor support the reds) gets to have a full say in things? The people that the reds elected get to have a say in things as their role of opposition in the parliament. A small minority of thugs do NOT get to say how the country should be run.

The fact is the reds are mostly poor. As you say many poor are not reds and they can vote for whoever they want.

It is because they know they will lose any election that the goverment is clinging on. By saying he will call elections the PM realizes all is not right with how the existing gov. came to power but trying to trick the reds into leaving by imposing conditions on that promise was too obvious.

Thailand is a fledgling democracy and these protest are just a part of the journey to a fuller democracy. There are thugs on both sides which is usual in any conflict but the main body of the reds are indeed just simple poor folk who for one reason or another (it really doesn't matter) have realized they do have some political power and are determined to excercise it.

Of course there are power struggles amongst the leaders of both sides and they all have their own agendas but the mass of proteters are indeed poor people who feel they have been ignored for too long and on that they are absolutely right.

Of course the staus quo is in a flap at the prospect of losing control and are prepared to go to any lengths to hang in there.

They are fighting a losing battle. They may win this one but eventually they will be voted out. Postponing the inevitable is harming everyone but staus quos resist change by definition.

You have my vote

Of course the dems as they are now are fighting a lost war , even if they win that battle .

But if they form a colation with PTP then maybe that can reunite the country and then nobody looses

Edited May 12, 2010 by pornsasi

[yoshiwara]

The kind of social progressivism the reds claim to be demonstrating for is always characterized by a certain ruthlessness and ends-justify-the-means mindset. This has always been true of revolutionary movements. The Red leadership simply can't relate to the public revulsion at some of their methods. To them, anything in the name of the "people" is fair game, and "destabilization" is the NAME of the game and MUCH to be desired. I agree that it's gone beyond Thaksin now. The failure to contain the movement up until now, and the apparent unwillingness of the police or military to intervene to put an end to it, probably means that dramatic change for Thailand, very likely including a significant veer toward Marxism, is inevitable. The "establishment" has much to fear (except for those who can understand and accept the radical change, find a way to make the movement their own, and transfigure themselves - as leftists so often do - into a new "party elite").

How crass.

Our 'new'? forum member attempts to put the clearly thug forces into an uplifting image.

What is he saying? That ruthlessness = revolutionary?

Might just as easily say fascist or mafioso.

The current red apologist mantra is to say that this movement has gone 'beyond' Thaksin.

Yeah sure, but make no mistake he is holding and pulling on the elastic harness.

Veer towards Marxism? I doubt if you understand anything of Marxism.

Not one word.

Edited May 12, 2010 by yoshiwara

[noahvail]

Precisely.

No Thaksin = no faux peasant uprising.

No Thaksin = Exploitation and indifference to the poors by the elite FOREVER

Sorry to point this out, but you forgot a comma:

No, Thaksin = Exploitation and indifference to the poors (sic) by the elite FOREVER

Thank you but i did not forget any comma . The world bank and most foreign economists do not concurr with you , and frankly i am more inclined to believe them rather then a few posters here . In addition to what i hear when i travel to Isaan.

I somehow doubt that the World Bank (show them some respect, use capitals) and most foreign economists would concur with you, either. Now, that's not a nyah-nyah... but again, you offer no proof.

I will offer a disproof of your statement. "Most foreign economists do not concur" with me, you state. Here's an interesting link http://ideas.repec.org/top/top.usa.html that lists the top 10% of **published** economists in the US alone. The top 10% equates to 650; bringing the total of **published** economists in the US to 6,500 - and there are 10s of thousands more who do not publish. So.....show me your research where "most foreign economists" would not concur.

Or is that just your unsubstantiated opinion? In inserting the comma, I was making a joke, so you could see how silly things can look. I guess you missed it.

So, where do you see information from the 6,500 economists who have published in the US? (Since you brought it up.) How many have you surveyed? Mr Thaksin spoke to 300 "Cambodian expert economists" - who knows how many other economists are in Cambodia alone? Have you surveyed them?

You cannot prove your point. Full stop.

I did a bunch of searches on the World Bank.org website. Nope, not a thing that relates. But you may not have noticed that.

It's been fun sparring with you and your compatriots, but I'm getting tired of spending so much time to disprove the frivolous statements that you all make. And then you don't have the decency to reply to my post on the Thai Red-Shirts Vow To Rally Until Deputy PM Suthep Is Charged thread.

You remember - it's the thread where you kept asking for proof, for proof, for proof, for proof. And I gave it to you. And you chose not to respond. Of course, that is your privilege. But it's very poor netiquette.

Poor enough to rank right up their with your frivolous charges, accusations, and responses.

But don't take it personally. I'd say the same to a PAD supporter who pulled the same stuff you pull.

[JohnLeech]

- PM Abhisit instantly sacked one of his own ministers for corruption - again a first for a Thai PM.

Really? Who? I can think of several who he only sacked when he had no option, and a number who he did nothing about at all, but I can't recall any minister who was "instantly sacked".

Ditto for the various coalition leaders, such as Newin. What action did any actually take?

Maybe you missed this, scorecard - or was it just another of those dreaded "factoids" that are becoming so common.

[whiterussian]

SHOCK HORROR!! More foreign media conspirators!

[bkkjames]

SHOCK HORROR!! More foreign media conspirators!

Hows that 911 thing coming over there in Bedlam, got it solved yet?