So Many Upmarket "apartments" Being Built.

[thaibeachlovers]

Having recently moved to Soi Buakhao, I've noticed a lot of fancy "apartment" buildings under construction. Do the owners know something not apparent to the rest of us, or are they dreaming?

I'm assuming that the intended occupants are farangs, but as they are extremely thin on the ground these days, and as that is probably not going to change due to the rubbish forex, just who do they think will occupy them?

I'm also assuming that the prices will mean the singlet and shorts crowd eating in cheap Thai restaurants won't be rushing to go stay in them.

[Zstarx]

I've been thinking similar to you, the only explanation I could give with my very limited intelligence would be that they only have to sell approx 10 to 20% of the units to make a profit.

View Talay residence in Soi 5 Jomtien, it's about 2 years old, probably 40 units, I don't think I've ever seen more than 4 lights on.

[jellymeister]

Not sure I would classify any of these as "up-market", especiailly in buakhow......all the overpriced "upmarket" ones like Northpoint, La Royale seem to have gone the way of the do-do.... the new ones seem to be low to middle class low rise developments, as in the pratumnak area......the question is , will the russians buy them all....and who is next after the russians decide to leave?

[thaibeachlovers]

Not sure I would classify any of these as "up-market", especiailly in buakhow......all the overpriced "upmarket" ones like Northpoint, La Royale seem to have gone the way of the do-do.... the new ones seem to be low to middle class low rise developments, as in the pratumnak area......the question is , will the russians buy them all....and who is next after the russians decide to leave?

OK, my definition of upmarket is something that looks flash, and appeals to a farang with enough cash to pay around 15,000 bht a month, rather than the windowless shabby room I'm currently living in for 5,000. Guess I'm lucky to have a western style loo, even if there isn't a bum gun!

[Forkinhades]

upmarket for 15000 a month

[jellymeister]

Kudos to the OP for honestly clarifying because many people have different definitions of up market, low market etc.....maybe just specifying the prices will help people to understand what is being discussed....

[moo9]

It is useless.....so many condos empty and still dazzling prices.

It's time that Pattaya City Hall realizes how and by what the city grew. All the other Buxxshxx should go to Phuket or Hua Hin.

Or, maybe we soon will live in Pattayski City?

[mallyrd]

upmarket for 15000 a month

Love it.

[mallyrd]

Not sure I would classify any of these as "up-market", especiailly in buakhow......all the overpriced "upmarket" ones like Northpoint, La Royale seem to have gone the way of the do-do.... the new ones seem to be low to middle class low rise developments, as in the pratumnak area......the question is , will the russians buy them all....and who is next after the russians decide to leave?

OK, my definition of upmarket is something that looks flash, and appeals to a farang with enough cash to pay around 15,000 bht a month, rather than the windowless shabby room I'm currently living in for 5,000. Guess I'm lucky to have a western style loo, even if there isn't a bum gun!

I guess you are joking, right?

[PhilHarries]

They're to house all the "quality" foreigners that TAT are working to attract, the same ones who are going to be thronging to all the swishy shopping malls.

It's Thai business logic. There is one business in a district turning over 5 million a month so all anyone has to do is to open another identical business next door to the original and now they'll be able to serve twice as many customers and both turn over 5 million. Then of course there'll be room for a third and so on, demand infinitely rises to utilise the capacity set aside for it.

It's like the first law of stuff.

Stuff expands to always fill the shelf space available to it no matter how much shelf space that may be.

[sgunn65]

There is more to the area than the tourist industry. I am one of the idiots buying a "luxury" condo in the area.

The place i have bought in had two units left. Most are sold to second home owners who will probably be there 3-4 weeks a year. And the units are around 10 mill so there is money around and still coming.

I have come here because of business not for the more exotic delights on offer. But Pattaya and the surrounding area do offer more to a potential buyer. The ease of access to the airport and Bangkok. Western food and the facilities help too.

Like any city there seems to be several layers to Pattaya. A thriving Squash club helped me to decide but also some very nice restaurants , cinema's and bars.

I doubt Pattaya will ever change its core business or client group but there is definitely a growing group of people who can afford more upmarket properties. There is room for all of us.

[SUPERIOR]

I Guess im lucky then,all my condos are occupied except for 1,all on long term contracts.

[dave2]

philharries.

re ... It's Thai business logic. There is one business in a district turning over 5 million a month so all anyone has to do is to open another identical business next door to the original and now they'll be able to serve twice as many customers and both turn over 5 million. Then of course there'll be room for a third and so on, demand infinitely rises to utilise the capacity set aside for it.

your talking about fish spas ..... yes ?

we have dozens of them in chiang mai .... mostly empty !

dave2

[loong]

There is more to the area than the tourist industry. I am one of the idiots buying a "luxury" condo in the area.

The place i have bought in had two units left. Most are sold to second home owners who will probably be there 3-4 weeks a year. And the units are around 10 mill so there is money around and still coming.

I have come here because of business not for the more exotic delights on offer. But Pattaya and the surrounding area do offer more to a potential buyer. The ease of access to the airport and Bangkok. Western food and the facilities help too.

Like any city there seems to be several layers to Pattaya. A thriving Squash club helped me to decide but also some very nice restaurants , cinema's and bars.

I doubt Pattaya will ever change its core business or client group but there is definitely a growing group of people who can afford more upmarket properties. There is room for all of us.

10 million Baht for a condo in Soi Buakhao

I would have thought that they'd need to be really hi-spec to attract buyers.

[LaoPo]

The market is just waiting for a total real estate collapse and exactly the same as it took the Spanish real estate market to collapse.

The entire Spanish GDP was, for a large part, totally depending on construction.

The result is -VISIBLE- more than 1 million houses on the market, for sale...but no buyers. In a country with 40 million people and even more than 50 (!) million tourists. Thailand doesn't even have 10 million on a yearly basis; forget about the visa running expats and returning visitors from Malaysia and other neighbouring countries, and 99% of those will never consider buying property in Thailand.

And, what's more, that's the visible part of the -for sale- market in Spain; there is a very large and very painful real estate market from owners who do not even dare to put their property on the market and hope for better times.

WHO is paying for the maintenance in the coming 1, 2 and more years...?

If you leave a house empty for some time...go back and look what happened in the past 6 months...

It's the same, maybe on a smaller scale, in Thailand; waiting for a disaster.

LaoPo

Edited May 12, 2010 by LaoPo

[Ulysses G.]

It's Thai business logic. There is one business in a district turning over 5 million a month so all anyone has to do is to open another identical business next door to the original and now they'll be able to serve twice as many customers and both turn over 5 million. Then of course there'll be room for a third and so on, demand infinitely rises to utilise the capacity set aside for it.

There seem to be a good number of farangs around who went to business school in Thailand and got straight As.

[Michaelaway]

The market is just waiting for a total real estate collapse and exactly the same as it took the Spanish real estate market to collapse.

The entire Spanish GDP was, for a large part, totally depending on construction.

The result is -VISIBLE- more than 1 million houses on the market, for sale...but no buyers. In a country with 40 million people and even more than 50 (!) million tourists. Thailand doesn't even have 10 million on a yearly basis; forget about the visa running expats and returning visitors from Malaysia and other neighbouring countries, and 99% of those will never consider buying property in Thailand.

And, what's more, that's the visible part of the -for sale- market in Spain; there is a very large and very painful real estate market from owners who do not even dare to put their property on the market and hope for better times.

WHO is paying for the maintenance in the coming 1, 2 and more years...?

If you leave a house empty for some time...go back and look what happened in the past 6 months...

It's the same, maybe on a smaller scale, in Thailand; waiting for a disaster.

LaoPo

When do you figure the total real estate collapse will happen? I'm saving up to buy and want to wait for the best/cheapest deal...

[bartender100]

The next generation of Pattaya real estate buyers will be mainland Chinese, 2 to 3 years time, bet yah!!!

[coutsa]

I just got back from Patts and I cant believe the amount of development that is going on.

We were also asking ourselves how can they keep selling these apartments?? Is there really that amount of people wanting to buy these epcensive places??

Does anyone know if they actually keep selling them??

To me it seemed the old monkey see monkey do philosophy that the Thais seem to have. Just look at that Fish and feet thing that is going on. I remember when the 1st one started at Royal Avenue by an aussie guy, now that I went back they were everywere.

Does anyone know if he is still there or if the ones at Central killed his business?

[morrobay]

All good observations above .Ive been wondering about this ongoing oversupply for a couple of years .Hotels.condos.apartments,retail space.

A farang , Austraiian/Hungarian, and a Thai guy with a motorbike business separately gave the same answer,

That these developers are very very wealthy and have so much cash that the normal laws of supply and demand do not apply to them.

And it does not hurt them to have empty space for years and years. Mabey they are just parking some cash here.

But not all these developers are super wealthy and will be in trouble in the collapse predicted by LaoPo .

[Spiny]

Not sure I would classify any of these as "up-market", especiailly in buakhow......all the overpriced "upmarket" ones like Northpoint, La Royale seem to have gone the way of the do-do.... the new ones seem to be low to middle class low rise developments, as in the pratumnak area......the question is , will the russians buy them all....and who is next after the russians decide to leave?

get ready for the Chinese and Indian influx

[kopite]

The market is just waiting for a total real estate collapse and exactly the same as it took the Spanish real estate market to collapse.

The entire Spanish GDP was, for a large part, totally depending on construction.

The result is -VISIBLE- more than 1 million houses on the market, for sale...but no buyers. In a country with 40 million people and even more than 50 (!) million tourists. Thailand doesn't even have 10 million on a yearly basis; forget about the visa running expats and returning visitors from Malaysia and other neighbouring countries, and 99% of those will never consider buying property in Thailand.

And, what's more, that's the visible part of the -for sale- market in Spain; there is a very large and very painful real estate market from owners who do not even dare to put their property on the market and hope for better times.

WHO is paying for the maintenance in the coming 1, 2 and more years...?

If you leave a house empty for some time...go back and look what happened in the past 6 months...

It's the same, maybe on a smaller scale, in Thailand; waiting for a disaster.

LaoPo

how on earth can you compare a city to a country???

spain never really had anything to offer except cheap housing. i know, i lived there for a number of years running businesses. the reason there is nearly whole housing estates empty, like la marina for example (the biggest housing estate in europe) is because the areas had very little offer apart from cheap housing, cheap way of living and sun.

the exchange rate with the euro put an end to that, add on top of that the end of free medical services for expats (it now costs around 270 euros per quarter per person). when that law was passed people left in their hundreds of thousnads. add on top of that expensive community fees and housing taxes, the cost of housing in spain is comparable to the uk. pattaya isnt at that stage yet.

pattaya will always have an appeal to somebody on this planet, by and large because of the sex industry. it might not always be full of brits, yanks and aussies, but people keep returning irrespective of the exchange rate with the baht.

Edited May 13, 2010 by kopite

[SantiSuk]

The next generation of Pattaya real estate buyers will be mainland Chinese, 2 to 3 years time, bet yah!!!

Absolutely. When the wealth trickles down some more to Chinese middle and lower middle classes then the Chinese hordes of wifeless males will start hitting Thailand big time with their aversions to darker skinned girls wiped away in a bout of pragmatism. There won't be any left for us farangs (property or ladies)!! Bet yah, also

Edited May 13, 2010 by SantiSuk

[jori]

Chinese,no way.You might include Martians too,that is more likely to happen

[moo9]

pattaya will always have an appeal to somebody on this planet, by and large because of the sex industry.

What exactly is the Sex Industry?

[123ace]

The next generation of Pattaya real estate buyers will be mainland Chinese, 2 to 3 years time, bet yah!!!

No they will not. Try and understand that: Mainland chinese are not allowed to take money out of the country, they can't communicate in English or Thai, their home economy is far better, they would have nothing to do here, lack of chinese food, visa restrictions would make thsi hard and.... its a long list.

[123ace]

The market is just waiting for a total real estate collapse and exactly the same as it took the Spanish real estate market to collapse.

The entire Spanish GDP was, for a large part, totally depending on construction.

The result is -VISIBLE- more than 1 million houses on the market, for sale...but no buyers. In a country with 40 million people and even more than 50 (!) million tourists. Thailand doesn't even have 10 million on a yearly basis; forget about the visa running expats and returning visitors from Malaysia and other neighbouring countries, and 99% of those will never consider buying property in Thailand.

And, what's more, that's the visible part of the -for sale- market in Spain; there is a very large and very painful real estate market from owners who do not even dare to put their property on the market and hope for better times.

WHO is paying for the maintenance in the coming 1, 2 and more years...?

If you leave a house empty for some time...go back and look what happened in the past 6 months...

It's the same, maybe on a smaller scale, in Thailand; waiting for a disaster.

LaoPo

All wrong. New development has slowed, easing the over-supply burden. The volume of debt on 'sold' property is neglibile, as such there is 'no' bank exposure through non payment of loans. No reposessions, no local freddymac or fannymae equivalent.

Silly new developments launched off plan and purcahsed by the naive are irrelevant. This can happen anywhere and has no impact here - look at the local market evidence. Loads of failed developments - impact, none.

Some develoeprs are hurting - so what, even in the best of markets at the best of times some developers get it totally wrong, and go bust.

Pattaya has had at least 2 major downturns (worse than this), it has always bounced back.

Spain has had land title problems that we do not have - yes there are issues here, but the govt is not about to sieze land here as thay have there.

If the bars were to close 100% then I would agree the real estate market would totally collapse, but as the bars are not expected to close the market will continue as is, not much better, not much worse, but 'as is'.

[coutsa]

Would the Indians really be welcomed to buy from the Thais?? I thought the Thais have a very strong dislike for Indians??

[123ace]

Would the Indians really be welcomed to buy from the Thais?? I thought the Thais have a very strong dislike for Indians??

Indians with the money buy in the UK or the US. First and second generation money is simply not going to buy a non-investment holiday home in Thailand in preference to an investment / home in the west. Fear not.

And at this point in time developers would welcome indian buyers with open arms, if the interested was there. Developers don't live in their own projects anyway (or at least very rarely).

You may not be aware that Indians form one of the largest wealth groups in Thailand, owning huge parts of Sukhumvit - and I mean huge. They are just quiet about it.

[jori]

The market is just waiting for a total real estate collapse and exactly the same as it took the Spanish real estate market to collapse.

The entire Spanish GDP was, for a large part, totally depending on construction.

The result is -VISIBLE- more than 1 million houses on the market, for sale...but no buyers. In a country with 40 million people and even more than 50 (!) million tourists. Thailand doesn't even have 10 million on a yearly basis; forget about the visa running expats and returning visitors from Malaysia and other neighbouring countries, and 99% of those will never consider buying property in Thailand.

And, what's more, that's the visible part of the -for sale- market in Spain; there is a very large and very painful real estate market from owners who do not even dare to put their property on the market and hope for better times.

WHO is paying for the maintenance in the coming 1, 2 and more years...?

If you leave a house empty for some time...go back and look what happened in the past 6 months...

It's the same, maybe on a smaller scale, in Thailand; waiting for a disaster.

LaoPo

All wrong. New development has slowed, easing the over-supply burden. The volume of debt on 'sold' property is neglibile, as such there is 'no' bank exposure through non payment of loans. No reposessions, no local freddymac or fannymae equivalent.

Silly new developments launched off plan and purcahsed by the naive are irrelevant. This can happen anywhere and has no impact here - look at the local market evidence. Loads of failed developments - impact, none.

Some develoeprs are hurting - so what, even in the best of markets at the best of times some developers get it totally wrong, and go bust.

Pattaya has had at least 2 major downturns (worse than this), it has always bounced back.

Spain has had land title problems that we do not have - yes there are issues here, but the govt is not about to sieze land here as thay have there.

If the bars were to close 100% then I would agree the real estate market would totally collapse, but as the bars are not expected to close the market will continue as is, not much better, not much worse, but 'as is'.

Can look at any problem whatever slant you want to look at it,personally the stuff about Spain is a load of "tosh" even if they stopped development today there is about 15 years of housing stock to soak up,and it is a problem.

Developments (condos),recently sold(and abandoned) in Spain due to financial pressure,leave the remaining tenants with massive maintenance fees,which in turn will lead to more abandoning the developments,and land title problems could start here any time the authorities want to wake up and scutinise what is happening.

Buy anywhere in Spain apart from the more dubious and recent develpments and it is plain sailing,especially from a respected lawyer ,here you can ask 100 lawyers and you get 100 different accounts of exactly the lawful way of owning property,and lets face it there are none

Anyway its pointess trying to get a point over,everyone has their own opinions,never to change,but I tell you wherever I travel in Pattaya there are adverts screaming everywhere for houses /condos along the Suk Rd,everywhere in fact,same adverts were there a year ago advertising the self same developments,never to be sold ,never will ,and as stated there has been ups and downs in property markets the last few years,but you can bet your life there will be no upswing for many a year here and thats an understatement

...and the Indians have to be quite about land ownership in or out of their country ,the NRI are about to get hammered on any property not lived in, and they are probably be looking at being blackmailed if any information landed at the tax authorities in Delhi

Edited May 13, 2010 by jori