Thai House

[blackdug]

i am looking for some advice ...i bought a house in thailand about 5 years ago and put it in the thai wifes name. We are now getting divorced and so far she has been good about everything ...she has agreed to give me the house in thailand and i trust she will, no problems. As a uk citizen i know i cannot own the house so were does this leave me.... can i get it transfered into a company i form without any cash changing hands (possible),,,another option i have is my daughter is half thai, born in the uk, but holds a thai passport and is registered as a resident of pattaya. Can i put the house in her name as this would be enough to make me relax about the ex not selling it at a later date..in truth i just want to know how to get my house back before she changes her mind!!!all good advice welcome ,,thanks

[crazydrummerpauly]

Hi - mmmm - "she has agreed to give me the house in Thailand and I trust she will, no problems"...as you actually know already,

is kind of meaningless legally-speaking. As far as Thai law is concerned, she cannot 'give' you something you are not allowed

to own ! Hence your subsequent questions - which, although you will no doubt get a pile of replies to here, you really should

only rely on the advice of a trustworthy lawyer specialising in property + company-formation. I mean - would you really ACT

on anything simply posted here even by well-meaning members, without specialist advice ? I would not. I love the idea of the

house going to your daughter, but again, it is not YOU who can "put the house in her name", because as far as Thai property-law

is concerned - who are you ? Perhaps your wife would be highly amenable to a transfer to your daughter ? I'm only an armchair-

lawyer who has tracked many histories of property-transactions between Thai + Farang co-residents, but whichever way you

choose, it is 100% sure that as the only legal owner, and Thai citizen, your wife will have to be in on everything from the first

step to the last. Good luck - maybe you could post some concluding comments when it is all done ?

Can anyone offer facts as to whether blackdugs 5-year involvement with a Thai property affords him any rights at all ?

Edited May 12, 2010 by crazydrummerpauly

[GungaDin]

30 year lease?

[blackdug]

i have been to see a thai lawyer who told me i have equal rights,, 50-50 on my house in event of a divorce ,,all i needed to do was show that i transfered the money over in my name to a thai bank account to purchase the house (which i can)..as for trusting advice on here you cannot beat experience and there are loads of lads on here who have been there and got the t-shirt ..and i know someone on here can help me a bit.... being in the uk it is not easy to access a lawyer and i am not going to thailand till the school holidays and i would like to be clued up if i can before i arrive...cheers.....ps the only reason she is signing the house over is she is getting away from all the debts occurred during our marriage and is still getting a cash payment !!!!!no favours done!!!!!

[thrilled]

I like that,your wife puts the house in your daughters name.Sometime later your daughter sells your house and does whatever she wants to do with the money.Yeah thats A plan.I still say never buy in thailand ,just rent.

[Stjohnm]

I like that,your wife puts the house in your daughters name.Sometime later your daughter sells your house and does whatever she wants to do with the money.Yeah thats A plan.I still say never buy in thailand ,just rent.

2nd that

[crazydrummerpauly]

Hi again - ah, good point - I assumed you were in LOS so could see a Thai/Farang law-firm here. But good news about the 50/50 rights owing to being able to show proof of the cash-transfer to purchase the house. And it makes a huge difference that there is a cash-incentive, not to mention the cancellation of debts, for your wife to stick to the deal. As for the member's comment about what your daughter might later do - i.e. sell up and dispose of the cash - that's obviously up to you and your feelings towards her - might not bother you ?

Referring to the lads on here who have had a load of experience and 'got the T-shirt'...well, I only meant to point out that there is a HUGE amount of misinformation on here on all threads I have read, e.g, today: an assertion that a Permanent Residence status made it possible to open a bank account and buy a car in one's own name (both easy without a PR permit), and that 44 years was the minimum period of contributions in order to get a full UK state pension - way out of date, it is only 30 years from this April just gone. It's a bit like Google - truckloads of stuff that is way out-of-date but is never hoovered up ! How about writing an email to this guy >>> Sebastian, ( the MD)at [email protected] - I have no connection with them, but have found them really friendly with advice and think they'll be able to help with legal advice before you leave the UK. Let me know how you get on with them ? (I might need them myself in the future !)

All the best.

Edited May 12, 2010 by crazydrummerpauly

[xylophone]

Crazydrummer quote; "As far as Thai law is concerned, she cannot 'give' you something you are not allowed to own".

If I am correct he can own the house but not the land upon which it sits, so signing a 30 yr lease with his wife would give him the use of that land AND he then has some control.

My Thai lawyer also stated something similar as regards the money aspect..........that as long as the poster could show that he supplied the money for the house, then transferring the title to him is "almost" a formality.

[Katman]

Hi Blackdug, i`m going through a very similar situation at the moment and i was wondering if you could possibly update me on your progress???.Much appreciated,

Cheers.

i have been to see a thai lawyer who told me i have equal rights,, 50-50 on my house in event of a divorce ,,all i needed to do was show that i transfered the money over in my name to a thai bank account to purchase the house (which i can)..as for trusting advice on here you cannot beat experience and there are loads of lads on here who have been there and got the t-shirt ..and i know someone on here can help me a bit.... being in the uk it is not easy to access a lawyer and i am not going to thailand till the school holidays and i would like to be clued up if i can before i arrive...cheers.....ps the only reason she is signing the house over is she is getting away from all the debts occurred during our marriage and is still getting a cash payment !!!!!no favours done!!!!!

[bkk_mike]

If you own it outright (i.e. no mortgage/loans attached to the property), isn't the simplest option to give it to the daughter but with a usufruct added so that she can't sell while you're still living there. (It would also prevent her taking out a loan on it as the usufruct wouldn't be in the lender's interest and would mean it's not included in your assets at death for UK tax purposes).

[johnnyk]

House and land can be separate in Thailand, a fact many falangs don't know because they are generally tied together in falangland.

Falangs can own a house outright in their own name. So she can give it to you providing its owned free and clear of debt. There will probably be some taxes to pay.

[stgrhe]

House and land can be separate in Thailand, a fact many falangs don't know because they are generally tied together in falangland.

Falangs can own a house outright in their own name. So she can give it to you providing its owned free and clear of debt. There will probably be some taxes to pay.

What is required is:

* A duly registered land lease, usufruct or a superficies in the farang's name

* Building permit in the farang's name

* A house construction / purchase contract in the farang's name

* Prof that payment for the construction /house came from the farang's account.

A building permit cannot always be gotten in the farang's name but even without that the house can still be registered separately from the land at the land office.

[wpcoe]

Just to crystalize in my own mind, it is legal for a farang to:

(a) own the physical structure (i.e. the house) in my own name

( lease/usufruct the land in my own name

Have I got it right? I understand at the end of the lease/usufruct, I would lose access to the property.

[stgrhe]

Just to crystalize in my own mind, it is legal for a farang to:

a. own the physical structure (i.e. the house) in my own name

b. lease/usufruct the land in my own name

Have I got it right? I understand at the end of the lease/usufruct, I would lose access to the property.

The answer is a most likely yes to a. and yes to b. above. However, the supeficies is the only one right that explicitly states in the code that it is allowed.

At the end of the registered period the superficies states that the owner of the dwellings may remove them but also that the land owner has the right to purchase the dwellings. In the code concerning "hire of immovable property" (lease) and the "usufruct" this issue is not addressed.

It is highly recommended a superficies is registered as a compliment to any land lease if the lease holder intends to build a house on the leased land.

Edited September 11, 2010 by stgrhe

[wpcoe]

I probably should have mentioned this when I first asked, but the more likely scenario will be that I will buy a townhouse. Do the same options/benefits apply as they would for a house?

[trogers]

I probably should have mentioned this when I first asked, but the more likely scenario will be that I will buy a townhouse. Do the same options/benefits apply as they would for a house?

I do not see how a leaseholder of a piece of land can build his own structure that is a townhouse...

[wpcoe]

I probably should have mentioned this when I first asked, but the more likely scenario will be that I will buy a townhouse. Do the same options/benefits apply as they would for a house?

I do not see how a leaseholder of a piece of land can build his own structure that is a townhouse...

Hey, don't laugh at me!

So, with a townhouse, I cannot own the physical structure of the unit I want to buy in my own name (legally), and then lease the ground under it?

I've been curious about townhouses. Those that have a single roof with an open space above all the units -- who is responsible for the "common area" roof? Do you own the structure from the center of one wall to the center of the next wall? Who owns the land the townhouse is on?

[JohnLeech]

My Thai lawyer also stated something similar as regards the money aspect..........that as long as the poster could show that he supplied the money for the house, then transferring the title to him is "almost" a formality.

Get another lawyer - this is absolute rubbish, in every detail.

[trogers]

I probably should have mentioned this when I first asked, but the more likely scenario will be that I will buy a townhouse. Do the same options/benefits apply as they would for a house?

I do not see how a leaseholder of a piece of land can build his own structure that is a townhouse...

Hey, don't laugh at me!

So, with a townhouse, I cannot own the physical structure of the unit I want to buy in my own name (legally), and then lease the ground under it?

I've been curious about townhouses. Those that have a single roof with an open space above all the units -- who is responsible for the "common area" roof? Do you own the structure from the center of one wall to the center of the next wall? Who owns the land the townhouse is on?

A properly designed and constructed row of townhouses should not have 'an open space' under the single roof. The common wall separating townhouse units should be built to meet the supporting structure of the sloping roof, thus separating all the house units and prevent the spread of fire between them, and prevent break-in from other units.

Property line will be at centre of common walls. Ownership title is for the land and the structure of the townhouse.

You cannot lease land and build a townhouse unit. The whole row of townhouse units have to be built as a single project. Same applies for duplex (semi-detached) houses.

Edited September 19, 2010 by trogers

[wpcoe]

You cannot lease land and build a townhouse unit.

So, there's my answer! Can't be any clearer than that. No townhouse for me.

[blackdug]

Hi Blackdug, i`m going through a very similar situation at the moment and i was wondering if you could possibly update me on your progress???.Much appreciated,

Cheers.

i have been to see a thai lawyer who told me i have equal rights,, 50-50 on my house in event of a divorce ,,all i needed to do was show that i transfered the money over in my name to a thai bank account to purchase the house (which i can)..as for trusting advice on here you cannot beat experience and there are loads of lads on here who have been there and got the t-shirt ..and i know someone on here can help me a bit.... being in the uk it is not easy to access a lawyer and i am not going to thailand till the school holidays and i would like to be clued up if i can before i arrive...cheers.....ps the only reason she is signing the house over is she is getting away from all the debts occurred during our marriage and is still getting a cash payment !!!!!no favours done!!!!!

sorry for not giving you an update i never noticed your request.....i never got to thailand to sort out my mess as i could not get my future ex wife on the airplane .....but amazingly she contacted me last week to offer to finally go over to thailand to sort it out,,,,,it all boils down to me refusing to give her anymore cash till i get my house back and i get a divorce paper in my hand and she is finally skint also i think she panicked with falling house prices in the uk and she knows i can go after her for half of all the debt ..she really is a nasty bit of work and her only offer of help has been to advise me to go bankrupt ..she is a total mug................ as for what i do with the house in thailand i don,t know as the more i researched the more i found out ..1...a 30 year lease does not make me feel safe as it leaves me open to further crap off her later on i,e taking out loans etc on the property ....2.getting a usufruct and putting it in my daughters name but again i feel this maybe is not for me as i think thailand is going down the toilet and it is time to off load property there i also don,t see much differance between a lease and a usufruct as i will always be seen as a farang in thailand so last in the line:angry: .................................... sadly i think it is time to off load the house and move on with my life and just give her a few quid to get her to <deleted> away from me ,,the only saving grace in the whole crappy affair is i bought the place a while ago at 70 bhat to the pound and i am willing to sell it for cheaper than i paid so i shold break even just about ................keep in touch if you want as i should have an answer to my worry,s by xmas.............

[bbradsby]

I probably should have mentioned this when I first asked, but the more likely scenario will be that I will buy a townhouse. Do the same options/benefits apply as they would for a house?

I do not see how a leaseholder of a piece of land can build his own structure that is a townhouse...

Hey, don't laugh at me!

So, with a townhouse, I cannot own the physical structure of the unit I want to buy in my own name (legally), and then lease the ground under it?

I've been curious about townhouses. Those that have a single roof with an open space above all the units -- who is responsible for the "common area" roof? Do you own the structure from the center of one wall to the center of the next wall? Who owns the land the townhouse is on?

A properly designed and constructed row of townhouses should not have 'an open space' under the single roof. The common wall separating townhouse units should be built to meet the supporting structure of the sloping roof, thus separating all the house units and prevent the spread of fire between them, and prevent break-in from other units.

Property line will be at centre of common walls. Ownership title is for the land and the structure of the townhouse.

You cannot lease land and build a townhouse unit. The whole row of townhouse units have to be built as a single project. Same applies for duplex (semi-detached) houses.

"Properly designed and constructed..." has absolutely no bearing on Thailand or most of the world for that matter. As an American architect & construction manager, I have currently observed well-known & respected Thai merchant builders placing ventilated concrete block in the attic party walls (the separating wall between dwelling units) in large BKK townhouse moobahns / developments, in addition to many fire & life safety horrors. My favorite in commercial & hospitality sector buildings are open stairwells or fire stair doors absent, blocked open, latches broken, or closers disabled. This creates a chimney. If you stay in hotels, you would be advised to stay in a lower floor and review (in your own mind so as to avoid alarming your party's mood) your exit pathway just in case.

If you own a Thai townhome, PLEASE check above the top floor ceiling, via access panel even if you have to make one, to look for party wall openings. These are a lethal risk to you and yours, and are easily grouted closed. As for the wall-to-roof-juncture, seal with firesafing batts or sealed gyp board, cut to fit. If the above seem a bit much, you should at least place a THB 300.00 smoke detector in the attic near your [new] access panel, as well as at top of stairs and in each bedroom.

Have a safe & great new year!