Clashes Continue, Turning Central Bangkok In Virtual Warzone

[Steely Dan]

Jerry this is a Thaksin powerplay, not a simple peoples democratic movement.

No Thaksin = no street riots. The people have 223 PTP candidates in parliament,

who COULD be effective, but are not. They are a huge opposition block,

but don't even act like a Shadow government. The reds are well represented in parliament,

though ineffectually because of lack of PTP organizational abilities, but they don't control the executive...

So this is a huge powerplay to regain cabinet army list and budgetary control; Patronage power,

and thus abilities get Thaksin back at the helm, if not as PM....

Try not to get caught up in the overlay facade

that is being used to confuse and obscure the REAL reasons.

It is amazing how many posters here seem to believe this is about democracy, this is a complete manipulated facade sold to

brainwashed masses and get them to rise up in revolt. PTP might as well be renamed the bring back Thaksin party, they are a

complete policy vacuum apart from this. They were saved the embarrassment of coming up with a manifesto when Abhisits offer

for a reconciliation path was rejected, and why?

This is nothing other than a power struggle between ruthless oligarchs who will stop at nothing to get their way - I think it's more than

a coincidence that one of these oligarchs owns a business interest called King Power, is this a name or a statement of intent?

P.S Mods, delete this if it contravenes guidelines - I am referring to a commercial entity above and not an institution.

[OzMick]

I'm a bit concerned about the foreign reporter being shot by the army after he clearly called for help and they knew he was a foreign reporter...

I know that I shouldn't feed the troll, but; how did they know he was a 1/ foreign and 2/ a reporter? 1/ Are there no thais who speak english? Is his nose that big? 2/ he was dressed in black and close to the red lines. Could they have mistaken him for a foreign mercenary, as shown in 10/4 pictures?

[LivinLOS]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but this is a democratically elected government, isn't it??

Yes and no..

Yes after much gamesmanship, disbarring of PPP officials, and outright treachery by Newins red faction being bribed to turn.. There was a Democrat coalition formed.. But..

No.. From the actual voting Abhisit and the Dems have lost repeatedly.. That includes previous house votes as well as from the electorate.

So its there on a technicality.. But lacking a moral authority.. Hence the demand to have proper general elections again (and perhaps the EC case against the dems be pursued with the same zeal that it was against the PPP).

[jcbangkok]

I live inside the 'barricades' (Langsuan) and am pretty keen on leaving Bangkok til things settle down since i am prisoner in my own home at the moment

Any advice on the best way to make an escape form Langsuan would be appreciated.

Whats the best point of exit? Mode of transport. What roads are closed etc

Thanks

You can spend the time locked in your house creating a time machine so that you can go back to the point where you could actually listen to Thai authorities and vacate the area when it was safe.

Am having a hard time understanding your having access to the internet, local Thai TV and claiming to be in the middle of the mess but are asking others for advice regarding your safety who are not there on an internet forum.

If your post is true ... then call the police or DSI and stop acting in such an illogical fashion.

[pimay11]

Red shirts burn public telephone booth in front of Lumpini Boxing Stadium

Red-shirt protesters set fire to a public telephone booth in front of the Lumpini Boxing Stadium at 8:57 am Saturday, Jor Sor 100 traffic radio station reported.

The fire spread to nearby commercial building and fire fighters could not go in to put out the blaze yet.

Sporadic gunfire and explosions were heard in the area.

Troops also fired into the sky to warn protesters not to attack them.

-- The Nation 2010-05-15

Such peaceful demonstrators. I suppose they are waiting for another fire truck to trash.

[jcbangkok]

I'm a bit concerned about the foreign reporter being shot by the army after he clearly called for help and they knew he was a foreign reporter...

I know that I shouldn't feed the troll, but; how did they know he was a 1/ foreign and 2/ a reporter? 1/ Are there no thais who speak english? Is his nose that big? 2/ he was dressed in black and close to the red lines. Could they have mistaken him for a foreign mercenary, as shown in 10/4 pictures?

I am still trying to understand how it is stated as fact that he was shot by a soldier or even if "ANYBODY' actually fired at him and he wasn't hit by stray bullets a ricochet.

Also, doesn't he cry for help AFTER he gets shot? And if he was being targeted by soldiers so openly, he would not have been able to walk away with the red ID wearing person he was with.

[BKjohn]

jc why do you bother answering those reds ?

they are obviously brain amputees and trying to intimidate anyone here is actually funny. If the reds should win, which I very much daubed, who would want to live in this shit-hole this country would become anyway ?

Within a very short time, those posters here would be planting rice and wear straw huts. Thailand would be a small third world country if it had not been for the west to come here for p..... during the Vietnam war and from than on .... have you ever heard of a Thai Nobel price winner ? or any product invented by a Thai ? have you ever seen a Thai car ? you can tell when a bridge was build by a Thai because you have to slow down to a crawl ...... most infrastructure here has been build by western companies because the Thais are so able ????

Only the Aryan race??? We come back to the Ultra Right thesis. Thais people are normal human being, they deserve a better education and they need that their Elite (whatever it is -Yellow, Pink or Red) does its job by managing FAIRLY the whole Country not only Bangkok privilegied areas.

Rural Thai People are human being with the same abilities than westerner people; there is no superiority of race, only an historical lag in education partly due to a mismanagement by Elite during years.

Be careful your way of thinking is gearing to fascism.

This is not fascist but fact. Why is it that when real facts, facts you know and can see every day by yourself, are negative towards one side become immediately fascist ?

Thailand has been build by the Chinese and the West.

The original population of this area are the Sakhai who are a tribe of which few are left in the jungle in southern Thailand. The modern population here consists of Burmese, Laotians, Indian etc... and Chinese.

Without the Chinese Thailand today would be like Laos 100 years ago. The influx of westerners during the Vietnam war started a build up of infrastructure. If this was good or bad is anybody's guess.

However, the Thai's enjoyed the money and improvements of their lifestyle.

Even today, all significant industry is based on western investments, machinery being imported as well as know how. This is why the less educated Thai deep down feels hate and insecurity towards so called "farangs" but since Thai's are all money oriented have to accept that we are either here or bring money in form of tourists.

Thaksin is a clever manipulator who despite being of Chinese origin himself now uses the hate of a group of Thais against the Chinese establishment to further his ambition. It really shows how easy these people can be manipulated with money. Money is what it all boils down to. They received money to vote for him and now they are receiving money to kill for him or the really dumb ones, to what they think is demonstrate for him where in reality they are human shields.

There is no honor in all of this, it is the dirtiest form of terrorism.

[jcbangkok]

I have been around a couple riots and those such as the Rodney King Riots in LA were nothing to do with the police, justice or Rodney King. Sure they may have started that way but there is always a certain element of society that just wants to cause chaos, hurt authority or prosper from these types of things.

I really suspect a large number of the red mob are simply there to cause havoc and have seized this opportunity to act out.

[retdson]

I have been around a couple riots and those such as the Rodney King Riots in LA were nothing to do with the police, justice or Rodney King. Sure they may have started that way but there is always a certain element of society that just wants to cause chaos, hurt authority or prosper from these types of things.

I really suspect a large number of the red mob are simply there to cause havoc and have seized this opportunity to act out.

Undoubtedly true.

[Jerrytheyoung]

jc why do you bother answering those reds ?

they are obviously brain amputees and trying to intimidate anyone here is actually funny. If the reds should win, which I very much daubed, who would want to live in this shit-hole this country would become anyway ?

Within a very short time, those posters here would be planting rice and wear straw huts. Thailand would be a small third world country if it had not been for the west to come here for p..... during the Vietnam war and from than on .... have you ever heard of a Thai Nobel price winner ? or any product invented by a Thai ? have you ever seen a Thai car ? you can tell when a bridge was build by a Thai because you have to slow down to a crawl ...... most infrastructure here has been build by western companies because the Thais are so able ????

Only the Aryan race??? We come back to the Ultra Right thesis. Thais people are normal human being, they deserve a better education and they need that their Elite (whatever it is -Yellow, Pink or Red) does its job by managing FAIRLY the whole Country not only Bangkok privilegied areas.

Rural Thai People are human being with the same abilities than westerner people; there is no superiority of race, only an historical lag in education partly due to a mismanagement by Elite during years.

Be careful your way of thinking is gearing to fascism.

Yes they deserve better education and infrastructure in all areas

of Thailand, there means to try achieve their goals really show this need.

There means and tactics are no way to gain this, it will only alienate them

even more. Do you think the elite or even the middle class ot Bangkok will

succumb to these kind of tactics and then suddenly decide

"hey lets spend al our tax money on the poor of other regions of Thialand,

they sure do deserveit after holding our city hostage for weeks on end"

Cannot see their life getting any better thru these tactics, it will only get worse

for those who survive

I have already stated that e Violence is gearing to Violence. With a large part of the population supporting the Red Shirts and geographically designated, in the coming hours we have a high probability of Civil war starting, the Country divided in two parts, the Institutions already fragile bursting.

If not, it will end in a massacre. Who will win? I am not a fortune teller.

As human being, it is wiser to stop everything by announcing elections immediately and give back power to People. Today the risks to fraction the Country are huge: it is the responsability of a state man to understand this and avoid the worst.

"Peace", not "War or massacre"

Edited May 15, 2010 by Jerrytheyoung

[BKjohn]

I have been around a couple riots and those such as the Rodney King Riots in LA were nothing to do with the police, justice or Rodney King. Sure they may have started that way but there is always a certain element of society that just wants to cause chaos, hurt authority or prosper from these types of things.

I really suspect a large number of the red mob are simply there to cause havoc and have seized this opportunity to act out.

Agree 100%

[barky]

I've just travelled from Phaya Thai to Klong Toey and return via Surasak, Suan Pluu, Sathorn, Convent, Silom, Suriwong, and Rama 4 etc. It's a ghost town feeling.

I witnessed the results of many acts of vandalism and fires and barracades etc.

When this is all over the clean-up and repair costs will be astronomical. They should sent the bill to Taksin.

It was however, pleasant to walk from Sathorn to Suriwong via Silom without the usual hustle and bustle and cars etc.

Edited May 15, 2010 by barky

[tracymeaw]

I'm a bit concerned about the foreign reporter being shot by the army after he clearly called for help and they knew he was a foreign reporter...

I know that I shouldn't feed the troll, but; how did they know he was a 1/ foreign and 2/ a reporter? 1/ Are there no thais who speak english? Is his nose that big? 2/ he was dressed in black and close to the red lines. Could they have mistaken him for a foreign mercenary, as shown in 10/4 pictures?

I am still trying to understand how it is stated as fact that he was shot by a soldier or even if "ANYBODY' actually fired at him and he wasn't hit by stray bullets a ricochet.

Also, doesn't he cry for help AFTER he gets shot? And if he was being targeted by soldiers so openly, he would not have been able to walk away with the red ID wearing person he was with.

You may be right, that could be an imaginary video with imaginary army and imaginary bullets and imaginary wounds and imaginary blood and imaginary pain and an imaginary escape with imaginary…..

[ETatBKK]

what is the status now ?

the operation of containing the reds in their 'fight zone', is it done, or is it progressing, or else ?

just see scattered violence here and there, is it containing or is it spreading ?

any concise summary ?

[BKjohn]

jc why do you bother answering those reds ?

they are obviously brain amputees and trying to intimidate anyone here is actually funny. If the reds should win, which I very much daubed, who would want to live in this shit-hole this country would become anyway ?

Within a very short time, those posters here would be planting rice and wear straw huts. Thailand would be a small third world country if it had not been for the west to come here for p..... during the Vietnam war and from than on .... have you ever heard of a Thai Nobel price winner ? or any product invented by a Thai ? have you ever seen a Thai car ? you can tell when a bridge was build by a Thai because you have to slow down to a crawl ...... most infrastructure here has been build by western companies because the Thais are so able ????

Only the Aryan race??? We come back to the Ultra Right thesis. Thais people are normal human being, they deserve a better education and they need that their Elite (whatever it is -Yellow, Pink or Red) does its job by managing FAIRLY the whole Country not only Bangkok privilegied areas.

Rural Thai People are human being with the same abilities than westerner people; there is no superiority of race, only an historical lag in education partly due to a mismanagement by Elite during years.

Be careful your way of thinking is gearing to fascism.

Yes they deserve better education and infrastructure in all areas

of Thailand, there means to try achieve their goals really show this need.

There means and tactics are no way to gain this, it will only alienate them

even more. Do you think the elite or even the middle class ot Bangkok will

succumb to these kind of tactics and then suddenly decide

"hey lets spend al our tax money on the poor of other regions of Thialand,

they sure do deserveit after holding our city hostage for weeks on end"

Cannot see their life getting any better thru these tactics, it will only get worse

for those who survive

I have already stated that e Violence is gearing to Violence. With a large part of the population supporting the Red Shirts and geographically designated, in the coming hours we have a high probability of Civil war starting, the Country divided in two parts, the Institutions already fragile bursting.

If not, it will end in a massacre. Who will win? I am not a fortune teller.

As human being, it is wiser to stop everything by announcing elections immediately and give back power to People. Today the risk to fraction the Country are huge: it is the responsability of a state man to understand this and avoid the worst.

Peace not war or massacre

You should choose red to write your posts - do you really think this mob and especially their leaders show any qualifications to lead this country ???? you are probably hoping for Thaksin's return and lots of rewards for anyone who supported him - basically you are a traitor to Thailand

[LuckyLew]

jc why do you bother answering those reds ?

they are obviously brain amputees and trying to intimidate anyone here is actually funny. If the reds should win, which I very much daubed, who would want to live in this shit-hole this country would become anyway ?

Within a very short time, those posters here would be planting rice and wear straw huts. Thailand would be a small third world country if it had not been for the west to come here for p..... during the Vietnam war and from than on .... have you ever heard of a Thai Nobel price winner ? or any product invented by a Thai ? have you ever seen a Thai car ? you can tell when a bridge was build by a Thai because you have to slow down to a crawl ...... most infrastructure here has been build by western companies because the Thais are so able ????

Only the Aryan race??? We come back to the Ultra Right thesis. Thais people are normal human being, they deserve a better education and they need that their Elite (whatever it is -Yellow, Pink or Red) does its job by managing FAIRLY the whole Country not only Bangkok privilegied areas.

Rural Thai People are human being with the same abilities than westerner people; there is no superiority of race, only an historical lag in education partly due to a mismanagement by Elite during years.

Be careful your way of thinking is gearing to fascism.

Yes they deserve better education and infrastructure in all areas

of Thailand, there means to try achieve their goals really show this need.

There means and tactics are no way to gain this, it will only alienate them

even more. Do you think the elite or even the middle class ot Bangkok will

succumb to these kind of tactics and then suddenly decide

"hey lets spend al our tax money on the poor of other regions of Thialand,

they sure do deserveit after holding our city hostage for weeks on end"

Cannot see their life getting any better thru these tactics, it will only get worse

for those who survive

I have already stated that e Violence is gearing to Violence. With a large part of the population supporting the Red Shirts and geographically designated, in the coming hours we have a high probability of Civil war starting, the Country divided in two parts, the Institutions already fragile bursting.

If not, it will end in a massacre. Who will win? I am not a fortune teller.

As human being, it is wiser to stop everything by announcing elections immediately and give back power to People. Today the risk to fraction the Country are huge: it is the responsability of a state man to understand this and avoid the worst.

Peace not war or massacre

Elections now will solve nothing

Reds win ... yellows cry foul and protest

Yellow win .... reds dry foul and protest

[jcbangkok]

[rixalex]

Sorry, I've only ever been shot once,

I accept your apology neverdie.

(How a man like you only ends up getting shot the once amazes me. I was thinking half a dozen at the least. )

[FarangCravings]

Its COLD BLOODED MURDER pure and simple

The rules of using live fire which was so eloquently told to the CNN and BBC yesterday in English by the Abhisit goverment was no army will fire on the public unless

1.) They are in fear of there lives

2.) They see an armed red shirt

3.) they will fire in the air

The right after that nice interview BBC and CNN shows the army hiding behind walls firing indiscriminantly into the red shirts then they show the french guy who was shot fell to the ground and then shot while on the ground 2 more times, he was not armed was not thai but was obviously targeted by the military in addition 2 more journalists have been shot

I see it as nothing but cold blooded Murder killing unarmed people and if someone says he was holding a bamboo stick give me a break unless the guy was making a move with that stick toward a solgier the guy has no permission to shoot him from behind a wall.

[RussellHantz]

Abhisit is such an idiot.

He knew exactly what would result if he used force. Congratulations Abhisit, now you have it

He should have stuck to negotiations.

Abhisit is a disgusting excuse for a human being.

[retdson]

As human being, it is wiser to stop everything by announcing elections immediately and give back power to People. Today the risk to fraction the Country are huge: it is the responsability of a state man to understand this and avoid the worst.

Peace not war or massacre

This is where it's all gone pear shaped - the Reds should have taken Abhisit's offer of elections in November. it was very reasonable. A cooling off period, a roadmap to agree the rules, and then a normal election. Instead they chose mayhem - rendering free and fair elections impossible. How could you hold elections in this climate of anger and distrust? that would really be a recipe for outright civil war.

[littleMo]

If you don't think a war cannot be won or lost due to the media ... take a look at Vietnam vs. USA and how Nixon treated the press.

There is a reason the US embedded reporters with troops in Iraq. The number of civilians killed in Iraq are mind blowing but you never heard the numbers from the mainstream media. This is one thing the US got right in that war and that was making reporters feel as the soldiers do as well as feeling attached to those units.

Thanks for your thoughts jcbangkok. But is it really the same? American reporters embedded with American troops is not the same as foreigner reporters like Mr Rand, who probably don't speak Thai, walking around at will in the middle of a battle zone without either protective clothing or soldiers to protect them.

Watching the Thai TV I notice the mainstream Thai journalists are fully protected in both the senses I just mentioned.

I also don't believe any news footage in Iraq was shown until well AFTER a battle had taken place, which is my point really. Agreeing with JohnBK from before, his point was that the professionals need to take charge on the ground, not be constantly worried about what the international media will make of it. Soldiers have to be worried about people shooting guns; they do not need the distraction of worryiny about people shooting cameras.

As an aside, I wonder how long it will be before all the molotov cocktail throwers start donning green armbands?

Edited May 15, 2010 by littleMo

[Steely Dan]

I have been around a couple riots and those such as the Rodney King Riots in LA were nothing to do with the police, justice or Rodney King. Sure they may have started that way but there is always a certain element of society that just wants to cause chaos, hurt authority or prosper from these types of things.

I really suspect a large number of the red mob are simply there to cause havoc and have seized this opportunity to act out.

Agree 100%

Apparently nearly 1% of the population are psychopaths, some clinical, some borderline. Society normally keeps these people in check by providing laws resulting in repercussions for transgressors. When there is an opportunity to burn societies rule book psychopaths and misfits are attracted like flies around shit. A 'cause' is very effective at harnessing such characters as it gives focus and 'justification' to their violent tendencies and total lack of moral compass.

[BKjohn]

Abhisit is such an idiot.

He knew exactly what would result if he used force. Congratulations Abhisit, now you have it

He should have stuck to negotiations.

Abhisit is a disgusting excuse for a human being.

Is it worth answering this BS ... naa not really, have another beer

[LuckyLew]

Abhisit is such an idiot.

He knew exactly what would result if he used force. Congratulations Abhisit, now you have it

He should have stuck to negotiations.

Abhisit is a disgusting excuse for a human being.

The same can be said of you for your lack of comprehension

He tried negotiations ... reds refused

They had a road map to start reconciliation - red refused

[dukkha]

I wonder what way Condo Security guards will swing if it gets to civil war....lots of farangs living in expensive condos rely on these guys to protect them, will they?

[Jerrytheyoung]

You should choose red to write your posts - do you really think this mob and especially their leaders show any qualifications to lead this country ???? you are probably hoping for Thaksin's return and lots of rewards for anyone who supported him - basically you are a traitor to Thailand

You are really limited and stubborn: I am not a Thaksin supporter... Difficult for you to understand as soon as we are not in line with your thoughts: too much complex??? It is you by your inability to dialog who is bringing Thailand to the verge of a Civil war and are in fact "Traitor to Thailand".

Edited May 15, 2010 by Jerrytheyoung

[jcbangkok]

I am sure in a country with so many poor that many or most have sympathies for what the we claim the reds want. (I say we claim because all I hear is dissolve the house and nothing about helping the poor)

However, I have little doubt that the vast majority of Thailand is against what this red mob is doing and has become.

Edit: In other words, this faction has taken over the red movement and I think it is not at all correct to go back to elections years ago and state there is a majority of red in Thailand. Not only do people's opinion's change (why there is elections every 4-years) but this current red movement is not what those people were voting for. Same is true for Thaksin. Even if he was to come back and get immunity, do people really think he would win an election?

Edited May 15, 2010 by jcbangkok

[OzMick]

Some of the coverage shows protesters being detained in handcuffs (plastic?).

About time. That's a key part of crowd dispersal. Every rowdy who is caught should be taken far away, locked up and booked. Don't leave it to police to detain them, as they've shown repeatedly, that they'll let them out. Who can the the turnkey? don't know, maybe there are some farang who need a break from being at their keyboards for 10 hours at a stretch.

Thanks Harold, Pretty much what I've surmised, though you've got some added inside info. I'm the one who was aghast at seeing the large poster of Thaksin, in my northern Thai town, - a formal portrait of him dressed in royal robes. The poster was put up while he was still PM.

Sorry, but I find that hard to believe. If it was true, I'm sure it would be used by the Democrats against Thaksin on every TV channel and newspaper.

Unlike Thaksin and all his people, I don't lie. I dearly wish I'd had a camera on hand at the time. The poster had to be 6 meters tall by 4 or 5 meters wide, and stood there for at least a week. There must be someone up in C.Rai who took a photo of it. I assumed the same poster was put up at other locations, but maybe it was unique to that one spot - a suburb called Ban Nam Lat, at the corner with Rim Kok road.

CMF has a copy over his bed, but I doubt that he would admit it.

[BKjohn]

I have been around a couple riots and those such as the Rodney King Riots in LA were nothing to do with the police, justice or Rodney King. Sure they may have started that way but there is always a certain element of society that just wants to cause chaos, hurt authority or prosper from these types of things.

I really suspect a large number of the red mob are simply there to cause havoc and have seized this opportunity to act out.

Agree 100%

Apparently nearly 1% of the population are psychopaths, some clinical, some borderline. Society normally keeps these people in check by providing laws resulting in repercussions for transgressors. When there is an opportunity to burn societies rule book psychopaths and misfits are attracted like flies around shit. A 'cause' is very effective at harnessing such characters as it gives focus and 'justification' to their violent tendencies and total lack of moral compass.

You forgot the plain criminals who love this sort of chance to make money by looting etc ....