Clashes Continue, Turning Central Bangkok In Virtual Warzone

[dhrobertson]

Din Daeng gone red again.

Udon Thani Town Hall under seige.

Convoys of Reds blocked from entering Bangkok about to get feisty!

Sure they got this contained at Rajprasong?

Another red cheerleader happy that things are about to get more violent

Nobody wants dead bodies just an end to this. The only thing is that most of the posters on here will be shattered and disallusioned when the reds take control. Men dont run a live ammo with a sling shot for 500 baht a day. That happens bcos of years of being down trodden and seeing their parents with nothing after a lifetime of toil. The army needs to stand back now b4 they too get massacred.

So, what do they want to see happen? What would they have someone like Korn do?

What do you suggest? Communism? Pol Pot style back to ground zero?

There are many people in this world who live in poverty. I think it will take somebody a little wiser than you to come up with solutions.

[agord]

I bet this Russell Hantz is from the hills of Kentucky (USA) so he has a lot in common with the rural people from the North and Isaan who believe everything the Red agitators have blasted on their loudspeakers in these small villages. Hey Khun Hantz, why don't you come down to Luphini Park and support your commrades? (plus receive 200 bath to buy seeds for your garden).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_Hantz

...and then he moved to Issan!

It's not the same git from Survivor is it?

[rabo]

Quesion: Anyone know whats happening with the Police at the moment, are they still involved in the conflicts? sided with the reds? or have they gotten out?

I don't think the police have become involved in the fighting in a significant way There was a post yesterday by the red parrot that the police were now shooting the soldiers. When I looked at the reference it was a report (Reuters) attributed to an unnamed witness that a (one) officer had been seen firing a gun (maybe once) in the direction of some troops.

Maybe there's more later but I have not seen it.

Edited May 15, 2010 by rabo

[simcity]

Admin

Now you have the entire feral members under one roof

‘Clashes Continue, Turning Central Bangkok In Virtual Warzone’

should it be a good time to wind them up and gas them ?

[humfurry]

Was just about to go take a shower to the outside toilet, when I noticed a lot of sharp pieces on the floor. Well, looking around it wasn't hard to spot the culprit.

This shot came from the southern side, through the concrete wall and tiling and still cracked the tiles on the other side's wall.

The height comparison of the holes is near identical, and being on 5th floor that would mean that it was shot from a fair distance, not just under the house.

FYI: the red stage is south, soldiers are under the house and towards the north, so there's really not much secret as to which side of the conflict this came from.

EDIT: Order of photos: from inside, wall that was hit; opposite wall; from outside; bullet

Put a long straw through the hole.... see where it points on the outside... that will give you an approx. location of the shooter.

Glad your safe.

[bendejo]

Thaksin is as washed up as Richard Nixon.

The man should learn to exit gracefully.

He is neither needed nor wanted. The cult of Thaksin is dead.

We can wish. As long as he has money in his pocket he'll be able to find people to manipulate for his purposes. A born leader.

[humfurry]

I bet this Russell Hantz is from the hills of Kentucky (USA) so he has a lot in common with the rural people from the North and Isaan who believe everything the Red agitators have blasted on their loudspeakers in these small villages. Hey Khun Hantz, why don't you come down to Luphini Park and support your commrades? (plus receive 200 bath to buy seeds for your garden).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_Hantz

...and then he moved to Issan!

It's not the same git from Survivor is it?

Dunno never saw the show.

[gregb]

Jerry --- you are Red. You have always excused the red threats of violence as "negotiations". You have failed to speak out against the red use of violence and instead have excused it as being needed for change and then added historical references to the French revolution AND to violent mobs using force as part of negotiations in France and other parts of Europe. It is when the reds get HURT that you speak about peace.

The reds had a great deal offered to them. They wanted elections. They wanted investigations into April 10th, they wanted and wanted. They were offered what they wanted then added more and would not go home. They called for violence and then vowed to fight to the death. You called it "negotiations". Now that they have the violence THEY called for from the red stage .......

Your claim to non-partisanship is not true --- one has only to read your posts. You are Red.

If asking for PEACE and no deaths is beeing red then I am red too and so is

most of the rest of the world , including a vast majority of thais .

Go on Jerry ....

Asking for peace and no deaths is Thai, but, Thaksin's red has come to mean armed insurgency, blowing up the country's infrastructure, invading hospitals, and is synonymous with M79 grenades, not to mention overt calls for destroying the country.

If you believe that the general Thai population, given their culture, supports any of this violence you are sadly mistaken.

Western models of downtrodden class upheaval tearing down the evil elite 'system' surely don't compute here, it ain't going to happen that way, and those who are comforted by such wet dreams are sure to be disappointed. Such a model fits here about as well as a group of Thai spiritual doctors in front of Wall Street waving their penis shaped talismans in an effort to cure the economic woes of the corrupt western financial system.

Very coloured description but you miss the basics

Tell me

Yesterday the ultra violent reds killed how many soldiers ?

And yesterday the "good" governement killed how many civilians ?

And today ?

Is the current PM trying to rival Thaksin on his Tai Bak massacre ?

The army is operating under very strict and internationally accepted rules of engagement. They do use live ammunition to defend themselves. I don't doubt there are civilians who are caught in the cross fire, but you can not blame that on the government. The red terrorists are much more culpable for those deaths. It is also unclear right now exactly how many civilians were innocent, and how many may were red insurgents.

One thing that is sure, is that the red leaders can end this whole thing right now if they would simply leave. They could get any reasonable concession they wanted, except amnesty or power for themselves. They are criminals, and will have to spend a good portion of the rest of their lives in prison.

If you want to claim the same is true of the government, you are going to have to do it through the court system with real evidence, not red propaganda. The government has spent the last 2 months gathering that evidence against the red shirted leaders, which is why the reds are now scared and screwed.

I don't know what Suthep and Abhisit did or did not do, but neither does anyone else. Call off the insurrection, and let an independent investigation team decide. In the mean time, the red leaders will rot in a jail cell. We know they are criminals. They already have arrest warrants outstanding.

Nobody else need die just so Thaksin and his ilk can have their bloody vegence.

[pornsasi]

I might suggest that you cut the bs sir. I noticed you left the children out but Im sure your next post will describe them as willing protestors wel informed of why they are there and what they are protesting for - Im not sure ANY of the reds know why they are REALLY there. Also how many have had their IDs taken from them and are there under threat and intimidation? You had it right mate they are real terrorists and when a ten year old boy gets shot directly from the actions of one of your terrorists trying to run a road block you can stand back and say look how evil the govt is.

In US or Europe i saw many protests having mothers with children . I concurr its a mistake .

They should not do that , just that they are not the only one mvt doing that .

Terrorist are ppl putting bombs in public places to kill tens of innocent civilians , or shooting

at those civilians . I really wonder who are the terrorists here on that account ?

Protesting against perceived injustice is not terrorism.

If the reds were terrorists the foreign press would have said so . None of them did .

Huh? The press have reported on the terrorist attacks in Thailand. Some have laid those attacks at the feet of the reds and some have merely suggested it. Many of the press are loathe to use the word until there is a conviction but it doesn't change the facts. The reds are trying to coerce the people of thailand by the use of violence and the threat of violence and THAT is terrorism.

Your lie about what a terrorist is tells much about how a red thinks.

Threatening to burn BKK down is an act of terrorism. The simple statement itself is terrorism. The calls for violence from the red stage is terrorism. Remember that the reds had used molotov cocktails in the past and had burned many things (mostly busses.) Political kidnapping is terrorism and they have done that. The threats from the red leaders last night were terrorism. The leaders have arrest warrants on them for terrorism.

Your sources please ? Any link from the foreign press ?

If you think that some of the red leaders like Arisman and Sae Daeng and their crew are terrorists i wont contradict you

but that does not mean the vast majority of reds are

And then on Arisman , Sae Daeng , tell me why Abhisit did not arrest them ? Incompetence ?

Political calculation ?

He desperately wants to be the PM , why dont he start acting like one .

Killing civilians in the streets will not solve the problem , i tell you .

[AlbinoAsian]

Quesion: Anyone know whats happening with the Police at the moment, are they still involved in the conflicts? sided with the reds? or have they gotten out?

I don't thing the police have become involved in the fighting. There was a post yesterday by the red parrot that the police were now shooting the soldiers. When I looked at the reference it was a report (Reuters) attributed to an unnamed witness that a (one) officer had been seen firing a gun (maybe once) in the direction of some troops.

Maybe there's more later but I have not seen it.

Thanks for the info, anything is possible in the confusion, but the clearer the lines are drawn the quicker this is over... hopefully

[mccw]

Yes , i agree with you . In France we have the CRS riot police and some of them are quite violent .

But beating protesters , who by the way do the same to police , is one thing .

Shooting live bullets at them is quite another

protesters in france arn't armed with m79 grenadelaunchers and automatic weapons are they

[Who, me ?]

Thaksin tweeted that govt "will end up as war criminals in the int'l criminal court."

I read it, then re-read it. I just can't believe he actually typed this .

And believe me....He did it!

[andrew55]

Need to stop replying and encouraging you and your ilk.

Andrew,

In all my time at Thai Visa I have only ever placed one person on IGNORE. I now have two people on the list. I would strongly encourage everyone to place this person on IGNORE, eventually he will realise nobody is interested in his half truths, propaganda & forum nonesense (THEN hopefully he will go and play in the traffic lights).

Neverdie

- I try to ignore but I keep biting... Can you in your greater experience set up a thread next to 'Stop Smoking' 'Don't beat women' and 'Save the Whales and the Baby Seals' to ignore posts from RussellHantz? Thanking you in anticipation.

Andrew

How do I do the 'ignore' thing?

Does it require counselling in application?

Edited May 15, 2010 by andrew55

[humfurry]

Was just about to go take a shower to the outside toilet, when I noticed a lot of sharp pieces on the floor. Well, looking around it wasn't hard to spot the culprit.

This shot came from the southern side, through the concrete wall and tiling and still cracked the tiles on the other side's wall.

The height comparison of the holes is near identical, and being on 5th floor that would mean that it was shot from a fair distance, not just under the house.

FYI: the red stage is south, soldiers are under the house and towards the north, so there's really not much secret as to which side of the conflict this came from.

EDIT: Order of photos: from inside, wall that was hit; opposite wall; from outside; bullet

Put a long straw through the hole.... see where it points on the outside... that will give you an approx. location of the shooter.

Glad your safe.

Better yet... get a friend to shine a laser pointer through the hole while you observe from the outside.

[neverdie]

Was just about to go take a shower to the outside toilet, when I noticed a lot of sharp pieces on the floor. Well, looking around it wasn't hard to spot the culprit.

This shot came from the southern side, through the concrete wall and tiling and still cracked the tiles on the other side's wall.

The height comparison of the holes is near identical, and being on 5th floor that would mean that it was shot from a fair distance, not just under the house.

FYI: the red stage is south, soldiers are under the house and towards the north, so there's really not much secret as to which side of the conflict this came from.

EDIT: Order of photos: from inside, wall that was hit; opposite wall; from outside; bullet

Take care Tom.

[eljeque]

"We can wish. As long as he has money in his pocket he'll be able to find people to manipulate for his purposes. A born leader."

Leader? .... not quite. Leaders are out in front.

[OzMick]

I just watched a BBC video on the net and they interviewed an English guy who had joined the protesters and was with them in their camp - <deleted> now we have some idiot foreigner joining this rebellion - thats just what we need to turn the locals against the foreigners......who is this <deleted>?

I think his name is Richard Cranium

Sure reprimand for 'off topic' again but Oz has high profile politician named Richard Face. Bet he could fight better than the boy named Sue.

Actually, his name was J. Richard Face (how bad could the J. be), Labor member for Charlestown in the NSW gov't. From memory became Minister for Gaming and Racing, until found guilty of corruption which was hardly a surprise to anyone who knew the mongrel. Ex-plumber, turned copper, turned pol, turned convict. And you'd lose that bet.

[Steely Dan]

Red-shirt Facebook page issues call for help

UDD Thailand, a Facebook page which supports the red-shirt movement, urged red-shirt people to come out in full force to help the Rajprasong protesters survive the crackdowns over the weekend.

The page, UDD Thailand, urged red-shirt people to gather at Imperial Lardprao, Imperial Samrong and Thai Com office in Kaerai and move together to Rajprasong.

The page urged the red-shirt to bring along foods and waters for the Rajprasong protesters.

He said the red-shirt people could also gather at the Pheu Thai head office at the BBD Building on Soi Jinda Thawil off Rama 4 Road.

The page also asked the red-shirt people to be careful, saying the black-shirt warriors and former Army chief Gen Chavalit Yongchaiyudh would help them battle the troops.

It said if the protesters survive past Sunday, the red-shirt movement would win the war against the government.

CRES I hope you are taking note.

If forces stretched suggest putting the word out to Bangkok residents who would probably be glad to form a welcoming committee.

[andrew55]

Instead of constantly criticising my posts, cheering flamers, and making cringe worthy sleazy come-ons to the female members of this forum, why don't you post something intelligent for a change ?

So rich coming from you. If you actually read what is being written here rusty, virtually everyone is critising your posts, you are truely a very troubled man person.

Priceless that you are asking me to post something intelligent

Mate, if I showed the posters on this forum the sick, sexually perverted PM you send me a few weeks ago, there wouldnt be any doubt about who the troubled person is....

Can you show us?

[pornsasi]

The army is operating under very strict and internationally accepted rules of engagement. They do use live ammunition to defend themselves. I don't doubt there are civilians who are caught in the cross fire, but you can not blame that on the government. The red terrorists are much more culpable for those deaths. It is also unclear right now exactly how many civilians were innocent, and how many may were red insurgents.

One thing that is sure, is that the red leaders can end this whole thing right now if they would simply leave. They could get any reasonable concession they wanted, except amnesty or power for themselves. They are criminals, and will have to spend a good portion of the rest of their lives in prison.

If you want to claim the same is true of the government, you are going to have to do it through the court system with real evidence, not red propaganda. The government has spent the last 2 months gathering that evidence against the red shirted leaders, which is why the reds are now scared and screwed.

I don't know what Suthep and Abhisit did or did not do, but neither does anyone else. Call off the insurrection, and let an independent investigation team decide. In the mean time, the red leaders will rot in a jail cell. We know they are criminals. They already have arrest warrants outstanding.

Nobody else need die just so Thaksin and his ilk can have their bloody vegence.

No soldiers have been killed by protesters so far in the latest clashes .

Only civilians by soldiers . According to you too bad for the civilians .

Thats one way of looking at it .

But the PM days are numbered if he continues . Then he can join the red leaders in jail

And so far the PM has solved nothing

[silk]

Was just about to go take a shower to the outside toilet, when I noticed a lot of sharp pieces on the floor. Well, looking around it wasn't hard to spot the culprit.

This shot came from the southern side, through the concrete wall and tiling and still cracked the tiles on the other side's wall.

The height comparison of the holes is near identical, and being on 5th floor that would mean that it was shot from a fair distance, not just under the house.

FYI: the red stage is south, soldiers are under the house and towards the north, so there's really not much secret as to which side of the conflict this came from.

EDIT: Order of photos: from inside, wall that was hit; opposite wall; from outside; bullet

Send it to the press and let them figure out

[Who, me ?]

Was just about to go take a shower to the outside toilet, when I noticed a lot of sharp pieces on the floor. Well, looking around it wasn't hard to spot the culprit.

This shot came from the southern side, through the concrete wall and tiling and still cracked the tiles on the other side's wall.

The height comparison of the holes is near identical, and being on 5th floor that would mean that it was shot from a fair distance, not just under the house.

FYI: the red stage is south, soldiers are under the house and towards the north, so there's really not much secret as to which side of the conflict this came from.

EDIT: Order of photos: from inside, wall that was hit; opposite wall; from outside; bullet

You must be mistaken....Reds are innocent unarmed civilians.......

I hope that reds supporters here will start to wake up, and understand ........

Take care

[Jerrytheyoung]

Jerry ---- your claims to be non-partisan are not true. You have excused the reds for everything. When the leaders call for violence from the red stage you call it "negotiation". When the Reds act violently you say "bad" and THEN you excuse them by saying that change has always been violent. You say violence is bad then compare the reds to Unionists in France having to be violent to get change. You compare them to the French Revolution and excuse the violence.

All it takes to see which side you fall in with is to look at your post history. You are RED.

you are a partisan who classifies people in 2 possibilities, unable to understand nuances.

For your information:

I support the Poor Population of Issan and their aspiration to better social environment: yes

I support the Roadmap: yes

I do not support Thaksin: yes

I am not involved with any Red Shirt leader and I am not supporting any of them: yes

I guess (but I am not an actor) that the negociation have failed on the question of Amnesty and double standards, and I regret Red Shirts have left the table and that there was no counter proposal of Abhisit: yes

I am against weaponry in free circulation and all militias from any side: yes

From day one I have explained it was a Police operation not an Army operation, Army should remain symbol of Unity: yes

I am French and as such my social inheritage has been built through social struggle, I am what I am and do not deny this inheritage: yes.

In the current circumstances, I wish that a Peaceful solution is the most reasonable because Unity of Thailand is at risk as well as the Thai Institutions (that I respect as a choice of Thai people): yes

I have a mitigated opinion, please take it into account, but maybe it is too difficult for you. Thanks

Yet you still excuse the violent threats of the red leaders as "negotiation."

Yet you still suggest that violence from the reds might be needed (by your historical analogies AND more directly.) yet condemn the results of those threats and violence.

Are you able to distingush that there are different levels of violence? As underlined by some posters, the anti-riot police forces in Europe are also violent but at a lesser degree than Thai forces. European Anti Riot Forces are not using "live ammo" against a mob, we have no militias or they are neutralised as soon as possible. Nedwin Militia, Yellow shirt militia, Pattaya gang, Ronin are not acceptable as the fact than an Army of Conscrit is engaged. So Thailand has to clean on every side in order to join the "International Standard Club" and what is acceptable.

France, UK, Germany and others are not the Wild West with free circulation of weapons. In France a knife which overpass the width of your palm is considered as a weapon....

[humfurry]

I just watched a BBC video on the net and they interviewed an English guy who had joined the protesters and was with them in their camp - <deleted> now we have some idiot foreigner joining this rebellion - thats just what we need to turn the locals against the foreigners......who is this <deleted>?

I think his name is Richard Cranium

Sure reprimand for 'off topic' again but Oz has high profile politician named Richard Face. Bet he could fight better than the boy named Sue.

Actually, his name was J. Richard Face (how bad could the J. be), Labor member for Charlestown in the NSW gov't. From memory became Minister for Gaming and Racing, until found guilty of corruption which was hardly a surprise to anyone who knew the mongrel. Ex-plumber, turned copper, turned pol, turned convict. And you'd lose that bet.

Really... that's a good bit of work you did! Thanks

[jcbangkok]

Your sources please ? Any link from the foreign press ?

If you think that some of the red leaders like Arisman and Sae Daeng and their crew are terrorists i wont contradict you

but that does not mean the vast majority of reds are

And then on Arisman , Sae Daeng , tell me why Abhisit did not arrest them ? Incompetence ?

Political calculation ?

He desperately wants to be the PM , why dont he start acting like one .

Killing civilians in the streets will not solve the problem , i tell you .

Edited May 15, 2010 by jcbangkok

[MonsieurHulot]

"We can wish. As long as he has money in his pocket he'll be able to find people to manipulate for his purposes. A born leader."

Leader? .... not quite. Leaders are out in front.

More than born... stubborn.

[seahorse]

I'm afraid that you don't understand the consequences. Compared to the govt expenditure in Isaan, very little tax is received. The tax base (in isaan) would have to be widened (read income tax) and/or govt expenditure savagely reduced. You also have the expense of setting up all the infrastructure of a govt. Most of the workers in Isaan are low paid because they a low value producers, and without tax help from the south, they will stay that way.

Meanwhile in the south, they buy their produce from the southern provinces, boosting their incomes (and taxes) and reducing the current tensions.

To summarise, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Isaan workers would still be allowed down south, but without the protections they now get as thai citizens - they become the "new" burmese, cambodians or laos.

In fact the North, much of the Northeast and some of Laos were a separate kingdom that was only fully amalgamated into Siam in about 1912, although it had lost its independence long before that. I think OzMick is right in saying the North and Northeast are net recipients of tax revenue. There is no attempt by central government to tax the incomes of farmers, even better off ones with large incomes. Everything is done in cash and is untraceable. Receipts from VAT and other taxes such as land tranfser tax, import duty, corporate income tax are also relatively very low per capita, compared to Bangkok, Central and all resort areas (they only really have Chiang Mai in this category). The new country (shall we call it Lanna?) would have extremely impoverished public finances and would have difficulty paying for basic services such as education and healthcare. Lannanese workers would be in demand in Siam because they can speak Siamese but would need work permits, would not enjoy minimum wage protection and would have to compete with workers from other countries (Burma, Cambodia etc for unskilled jobs and countries like India and the Philippines for skilled office workers). Politically things would be calmer as the two countries could more easily agree on what type of governments they wanted but Lannanese city dwellers of Chinese origin mgiht try to migrate to Siam en masse, further impoverishing the country. Siam also would have to agree to some sort of autonomy for the Deep South, as it would no longer have enough troops to send there. Militarily things would be tricky as Lanna would potentially have a large army with a small budget and Siam would potentially have a small army with a high budget. If Siam didn't focus on building up a modern, efficent army like Singapore, it would always face the threat of invasion by Lannanese hoards.

When I first came to Thailand, I taught an English writing class at a "university" in the south. As I didn't know a lot about the students or Thailand, the first essay I gave them was just entitled "Thailand." One student's essay has stuck with me. She described Thailand as resembling an elephant's head. Everything is sucked up from the south via the elephant's trunk. In other words, the south subsidises the north.

[gregb]

It said if the protesters survive past Sunday, the red-shirt movement would win the war against the government.

Wow. That sounds like they might be laying the ground work so that whoever is still standing on Monday can declare victory and go home without losing face.

If so, that would be a great thing. I don't care how we get the reds out, as long as they leave and their leaders are severely punished for what they have done.

[siampolee]

tomazbodner

hel_l of a cure for constipation you've got mate .

Be careful .Be lucky.

[whybother]

Red-shirt Facebook page issues call for help

UDD Thailand, a Facebook page which supports the red-shirt movement, urged red-shirt people to come out in full force to help the Rajprasong protesters survive the crackdowns over the weekend.

The page, UDD Thailand, urged red-shirt people to gather at Imperial Lardprao, Imperial Samrong and Thai Com office in Kaerai and move together to Rajprasong.

The page urged the red-shirt to bring along foods and waters for the Rajprasong protesters.

He said the red-shirt people could also gather at the Pheu Thai head office at the BBD Building on Soi Jinda Thawil off Rama 4 Road.

The page also asked the red-shirt people to be careful, saying the black-shirt warriors and former Army chief Gen Chavalit Yongchaiyudh would help them battle the troops.

It said if the protesters survive past Sunday, the red-shirt movement would win the war against the government.

CRES I hope you are taking note.

If forces stretched suggest putting the word out to Bangkok residents who would probably be glad to form a welcoming committee.

I could have sworn the red leaders had said that they had supplies for month/s !!