More Bloodshed In Bangkok As Red Siege Continues

[humfurry]

I think the Economist has gotten it quite right:

http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=15718981

Good read.... Thanks

This one is a bit more current (and more thoughtful than many Western Press articles):

Economist in Issan

"Thailand's political crisis is often framed, simplistically, as a battle between haves and have-nots. But in Mr Uthai's village, there are plenty of pickup trucks and tidy houses. The question is who speaks for his generation's children, who are moving to provincial cities, eager to trade up. They have middle-class aspirations but their economic interests, and the politicians they elect, are not those of white-collar Bangkok. Mr Thaksin won their hearts by swelling their wallets. A global boom helped polish his pitch. Mr Abhisit took power in a nasty recession."

Yes I liked that one too... well written, balanced and informative.

[jdinasia]

Well it is patently obvious that the supposed "rules" of engagement have gone out of the window. I don't blame the army. It was in someways to be absolutely expected

However, looking at the videos, I am quite surprised at the lack of armored vehicles being used. I am no warfare strategy expert, and this is an urban environment. However, if you want to command the streets, wouldn't it part of the plan to use tanks and APC's.

Maybe they think it doesn't look good on the streets, but with youtube and the worlds media watching quite intently, who cares. Maybe the tank groups they have are perceived as not very effective and that the "red militia" would know only too well how to handle them?

The situation seems to be barely under control, not wanting to wish anything bad to happen in Bangkok, but lets hope to God this doesn't spread out into the provinces. If that starts, who knows where the mess will end.

Every time they bring out the APCs the red seem to be able to get their hands on them [as the soldiers are not shooting to kill on sight] and once the reds have armoured APCs they will be much harder to remove.

Indeed, it seems that the commanders of these units don't seem to mesh too well with the infantry. But still, I don't see how this can be "won" with running street battles at 100 yards and snipers. I understand the policy is to surround them, but surrounding them with soldiers and some razor wire and sitting back isn't going to work.

The reds could stay in there for weeks, and the battle lines will stay the same. I don't presume to guess how many people live in there, but it has to be in the hundreds of thousands at least. A paid holiday to the beach for all the residents who want to leave might be in order for all of them. Close up all the houses. The "reds" are mingling with the residents and this is only serving to blur the lines.

Martial law in that area of town would be a logical next step. Give everyone one days warning to stock up if they don't want to leave. Those that want to leave, welcome, here is a bus to the beach. Everyone else stay in doors or you are going to get arrested at best, or at absolute worst, killed.

Bottle the reds up ... from a distance. Limit supplies. Sucker the aggressive ones to attack military units that are reasonably well dug in. Don't invade so the government can claim it isn't a "crackdown and only a "containment". Keep the aggressive ones keyed up and the grannies and women and kids safe inside the perimeter until they choose to leave.

Yeah -- it has drawbacks. It has its good points too. The reds are the ones that have to attack. The government troops get to respond with agressive defense. Reds that are killed or wounded outside of the red zone can be painted as violent no matter WHAT happens.

Strangely Sae Daeng's "Ronin" have been relatively quiet. The m79's fired so far seem to be VERY ineffective. I personally do not doubt that the reds have MANY m79's and I believe thay have just passed them out to some of the more aggressive guards. They are NOT that effective in the hands of untrained people.

My questions are

1) Why have the "Ronin" been so ineffective?

2) The government is controlling access to some news (my belief -- and I am not opposed to it) Do you think that they are not announcing the results of military casualties (deaths and woundings?)

[nickupton]

All the experts on Politics, War, Economy, JOURNALISM, Weapons, Human Psychology, Religion are here on ThaiVisa... I don't how they running the world out dere..

Most of these experts haven't moved out of their home for few days now but they know all is there to know... they can set things right with one hit at spacebar...

Sorry for having an opinion, I forgot that wasn't allowed under red democracy.

My humble apologies.

Long live Thaksin.

Three cheers for the unarmed, peaceful, democratic, fighting-with-their-bare-hands, prai protestors shooting at the security forces with grenades and automatic rifles and their summary executions of soldiers in trucks.

[sawadeeken]

To "farangCravings" If the word 'MURDER' fits into this picture at all, it describes the red-shirt leaders......... They have through their own selfish goals, led all their followers over the cliff............ CHEW ON THAT FOR A WHILE.................

[FarangCravings]

Thai army snipers in action

If that are snipers, you better go back to K-1 you Mo##@n

Are you blind you can clearly see a sniper with scopes taking pot shots maybe he was the one who killed that poor 10 year old yesterday

COLD BLOODED MURDER the Thai Goverment should be ashamed

At least the world is seeing the thai goverment for what they are MURDERERS

Obviously you don't have a clue whats going on up there in Chiang Mai. You sound like an i_diot. If they were murderers they would've already bumped off the 3 remaining ring leaders. The gov't has put off this necessary action as long as possible to spare lives. You can't let these thugs cripple the country and more than you can let uninformed fourm members call the gov't murderers.

So you just MURDER them in cold blood just like Da Saeng shot in cold blood by the goverment of course they denied it but come on its plain to see

[patjem]

So do you think anyone actually believes that because you show some random bloody pictures you have proven that reds aren't armed?

I think there is no doubt Seh Daeng was not armed......but I guess for some on this forum as long as 100 are armed the other 10,000 are asking to be shot.....I used this word on another thread

Hypocrites....

Just a tad slanted

"real bullets used by soldiers and M79 grenades fired by unidentified assailants."

This article should have clearly been marked "opinion" as it cannot be classified

as objective journalism

Aahh, the fake reds ofcourse!

As both CNN and BBC are reporting: there are different factions within Thaksin's movement, from feetclapping old ladies to paramilltary killers!

They are all "red shirts"..... whether they are DAAD, politicians, paid crowd, contracted paramilitary or renegade army. The one classification that covers them is red shirt..... there are no "fakes", just different factions within.

[FarangCravings]

To "farangCravings" If the word 'MURDER' fits into this picture at all, it describes the red-shirt leaders......... They have through their own selfish goals, led all their followers over the cliff............ CHEW ON THAT FOR A WHILE.................

I only see Civilians DEAD not armed red shirt even a 10 year old boy shot by the military

Hmmmm pretty clear

[pimay11]

Thai army snipers in action

If that are snipers, you better go back to K-1 you Mo##@n

Are you blind you can clearly see a sniper with scopes taking pot shots maybe he was the one who killed that poor 10 year old yesterday

COLD BLOODED MURDER the Thai Goverment should be ashamed

At least the world is seeing the thai goverment for what they are MURDERERS

Maybe he wasn't! You know what assuming does right?

[thepodest]

So you just MURDER them in cold blood just like Da Saeng shot in cold blood by the goverment of course they denied it but come on its plain to see

No NO! It's the redshirt's leaders that dislike Sae Dang!1!!@!@ OMG. It's just so plain to see!1!12! I know all the facts!!@!@ Believe me guyyysys

Edited May 16, 2010 by thepodest

[TAWP]

Thai army snipers in action

If that are snipers, you better go back to K-1 you Mo##@n

Are you blind you can clearly see a sniper with scopes taking pot shots maybe he was the one who killed that poor 10 year old yesterday

COLD BLOODED MURDER the Thai Goverment should be ashamed

At least the world is seeing the thai goverment for what they are MURDERERS

You are both blind and seeing things that are not there.

There is NO snipers in this clip.

There are some soldiers that fire their shotguns with rubber bullets and then later a marksman using his scoped M-16. NOT a sniper.

And there is NO EVIDENCE or even fantasies that the 10 year old boy was aimed upon or any other child for that matter.

You are truly a sad piece of work.

You didn't happen to be on stage yesterday?

[kissdani]

It's raining very hard where I am.... what's it like downtown?

More east of bangkok i spotted heavy clouds, they are not here yet. But black smoke coming from the live firing zone.

[jdinasia]

so the army is still just surrounding them and not actually going in to the red camp. The reds are coming out to attack the army. What do they expect to happen to them? fair enough i say; cnn now say army is being attacked by gun and grenade, fair enough, the more terrorist they kill now the less to make trouble later! red leader should let all the kids out and stop to use them as shield; cowardly scum bags.

HE NATION: My mother-in-law said pppl wanted 2 bring home their children & old ppl from rajprasong yday but was refused 2 leave by r-guards..

Unbelivable now you say the reds are holding civs against there will how low will you guys go

The goverment said all the deaths are becase the reds are shooting each other LMAO do they really think anyone will believe that

Please document where the government said "all the deaths are because the reds are shooting each other."

[Thai at Heart]

In the newspaper that can't be mentioned there is a very strange statement from Panitan. It an article talking about an email by Abhisit.

"He admitted that men in military uniform had infiltrated and killed red shirt protesters to incite violence."

This is in the article quoting Panitan.

I hope that is put down to lost in translation. So the army is acting like this?

Edited May 16, 2010 by Thai at Heart

[animatic]

This is the demonstration of what I have stated already several times : Militias are unacceptable in democratic Countries: it brings the level of violence to the highest during social unrests. More it can jeopardise the future of a Country. And if my numerous american friend of this forum continue to think about more tough and military actions, just remember Mogadishio, Somalia.... Militias are a Cancer (Yellows, Newin, Pattayas, Ronin...any militia)

In case of crushing the reds, you should see the consequences on the economy: Spain during Franco period, has been sulked during years in spite marketing efforts. most of europeans avoiding Spain as tourist destination and spanish products.

Anything which can bring Parties to the table of negotiation without conditions is welcome.

Quite true the Reds have created an illegal militia and are using it to try and bring down the government.

This is of course unacceptable. And the level of force they have is beyond the powers of police to control.

That the PTP opposition party is check and jowl with the red leaders, and sharing stages while the most

virulent lies being told. This shows they are utterly compromised and incapable of legitimate governance.

They have shot off both feet up to the knees.

-------------------

PS Jerry, sulked is not the right word to use.

You have used it twice recently, but it doesn't fit your point.

I know english is not your first language.

<h2 class="me">sulk –verb (used without object)</h2>1. to remain silent or hold oneself aloof in a sullen, ill-humored, or offended mood:

Promise me that you won't sulk if I want to leave the party early.

–noun2. a state or fit of sulking. 3. sulks, ill-humor shown by sulking: to be in the sulks. 4. Also, sulker. a person who sulks.

Spain has not been sitting like a child that didn't get some candy....

Try:

'Spain during (or since) the Franco period, had been "avoided / ignored / marginalized / diminished /

during years in spite marketing efforts...'

But, I think more recently the issue for travelers has been the Basques bombing indescriminately.

Illegal militias again... And note Spain and France's responce to them has not been unviolent; no choice.

And the Islamic train bomb a few years back too.

Franco from 40 years back is not near the issue it used to be, except to old people,

but his tenure DID greatly retard Spain's progress relative to Europe.

[Steely Dan]

THE NATION: RT @rrystrom:My mother-in-law said pppl wanted 2 bring home their children&old ppl from rajprasong yday but was refused 2leave by r-guards..

Exactly as I have predicted and written before. This is a hostage situation.

[bkkjames]

Thai army snipers in action

If that are snipers, you better go back to K-1 you Mo##@n

Are you blind you can clearly see a sniper with scopes taking pot shots maybe he was the one who killed that poor 10 year old yesterday

COLD BLOODED MURDER the Thai Goverment should be ashamed

At least the world is seeing the thai goverment for what they are MURDERERS

Hang on there a minute, pretty sure to a man, everyone on here has expressed their sadness over that young boy, but to say he was ordered to be killed by the government is complete and utter crap.

As a parent, if I let my child go anywhere this kind of area, I should be charged with criminal negligence.

Sadly, these things happen in a war zone, but I am sure you are also the first to whinge when (I assume) your western government drops a bomb on some village.

[FarangCravings]

Thai army snipers in action

If that are snipers, you better go back to K-1 you Mo##@n

Are you blind you can clearly see a sniper with scopes taking pot shots maybe he was the one who killed that poor 10 year old yesterday

COLD BLOODED MURDER the Thai Goverment should be ashamed

At least the world is seeing the thai goverment for what they are MURDERERS

You are both blind and seeing things that are not there.

There is NO snipers in this clip.

There are some soldiers that fire their shotguns with rubber bullets and then later a marksman using his scoped M-16. NOT a sniper.

And there is NO EVIDENCE or even fantasies that the 10 year old boy was aimed upon or any other child for that matter.

You are truly a sad piece of work.

You didn't happen to be on stage yesterday?

So how did the kid get a bullet to the chest them

i think your the one whos a bit of an idiot here open your eyes

[FarangCravings]

Thai army snipers in action

If that are snipers, you better go back to K-1 you Mo##@n

Are you blind you can clearly see a sniper with scopes taking pot shots maybe he was the one who killed that poor 10 year old yesterday

COLD BLOODED MURDER the Thai Goverment should be ashamed

At least the world is seeing the thai goverment for what they are MURDERERS

Hang on there a minute, pretty sure to a man, everyone on here has expressed their sadness over that young boy, but to say he was ordered to be killed by the government is complete and utter crap.

As a parent, if I let my child go anywhere this kind of area, I should be charged with criminal negligence.

Sadly, these things happen in a war zone, but I am sure you are also the first to whinge when (I assume) your western government drops a bomb on some village.

Nobody said he was ordered killed but he was killed nevertheless by the military end of story

[Humungus]

I simply do not understand what the military are doing.

They are a trained military force. Surely they can achieve a strategic objective against a rabble.

They have made no attempt to close down the protest and seem to be playing deadly games with the more ignorant and aggressive but probably not well armed protestors on the edge of their encampment. Is the idea to starve them to death?

If you insist on shooting Thais at least achieve something.

The troops are trying to contain the protest, and haven't moved into the area where women and children are being held. Those fighting with the army on the perimeter are putting themselves at risk. If they were peacefully sitting at Rajasaprong they would have no fear of being shot. Due to their actions they cannot truly be classified as civilans, they are combatants.

Having Nutthawat plead for negotiations is really pathetic. It would just be a stalling tactic like last time to give them time to rearm and resupply with no reasonable expectation that they would follow through with any negotiated settlement. Total surrender by the reds is the only way to avoid further bloodshed.

[thepodest]

So how did the kid get a bullet to the chest them

i think your the one whos a bit of an idiot here open your eyes

Because he got shot by somebody that WE DONT KNOW.

Enough with the kid's death?

If you have any proof I would gladly see it. But you don't. Just keep pulling stuff out of your arse and try to sell it as facts.

[ratcatcher]

Why don't the red leaders just let their supporters go home????? They aren't likely to gain anything now and it could save lives. I think they don't place much value on their 'sacrificial sheep'............................. And while I'm on the subject, why aren't those leaders at the front of the protest lines????????? They never get close to the action ------- COWARDS, deep down, I think................ all mouth, no guts........................

Because they will go back to be down trodden on and nothing will change the elites will win

Yes indeed, they will go back to be downtrodden by the Thaksin thugs who rule Isaan and keep the so called downtrodden in

their place.

Plenty of fancy suits and Mercedes Benz cars in Isaan. Open your farang craved eyes.

Not just Bangkok elite sunshine.

[nickupton]

Thai army snipers in action

If that are snipers, you better go back to K-1 you Mo##@n

Are you blind you can clearly see a sniper with scopes taking pot shots maybe he was the one who killed that poor 10 year old yesterday

COLD BLOODED MURDER the Thai Goverment should be ashamed

At least the world is seeing the thai goverment for what they are MURDERERS

Maybe he wasn't! You know what assuming does right?

Maybe he shot that redshirt guy who blew out the brains of that soldier they dragged out of the truck at Din Daeng.

Maybe he shot that red guard caught on video firing a grenade launcher.

Maybe he shot that guy in black running around with a machine gun that we have all seen.

Maybe he shot that redshirt sniper that was taken down yesterday.

Maybe he was the one who shot Sae Daeng.

If he was responsible for any of these I hope he gets promotion and a nice pension.

[FarangCravings]

So how did the kid get a bullet to the chest them

i think your the one whos a bit of an idiot here open your eyes

Because he got shot by somebody that WE DONT KNOW.

Enough with the kid's death?

If you have any proof I would gladly see it. But you don't. Just keep pulling stuff out of your arse and try to sell it as facts.

Its prett funny huh every time someone gets killed like the kid or da saeng nobody knows who did it well im sorry its VERY CLEAR who is doing the KILLING and that is the THAI MILITARY there is absolutely no doubt just check the hospitals

[TAWP]

So how did the kid get a bullet to the chest them

i think your the one whos a bit of an idiot here open your eyes

I would guess a ricochet on the pavement (since the soldiers was aiming at the racing vans tires) or a through-and-through that went through the car (or possible even completely missed it) and continued and hit the two bystanders further down the street (we still have not seen any map of where they were located, but the scenarios are more likely than your nightmare-dreams).

[FarangCravings]

Maybe he shot that redshirt guy who blew out the brains of that soldier they dragged out of the truck at Din Daeng.

Maybe he shot that red guard caught on video firing a grenade launcher.

Maybe he shot that guy in black running around with a machine gun that we have all seen.

Maybe he shot that redshirt sniper that was taken down yesterday.

Maybe he was the one who shot Sae Daeng.

If he was responsible for any of these I hope he gets promotion and a nice pension.

HMMMM funny how we have only seen DEAD CIVILIANS then if they were taking out all those you mention

[ChouDoufu]

In the newspaper that can't be mentioned there is a very strange statement from Panitan. It an article talking about an email by Abhisit.

"He admitted that men in military uniform had infiltrated and killed red shirt protesters to incite violence."

This is in the article quoting Panitan.I hope that is put down to lost in translation. So the army is acting like this?

could he be referring to the ronin army?

maybe some fake reds dressed in camo trying to escalate the situation?

does he mean military uniform or military-style uniform?

you need the original thai to know what he was saying.

[donmac]

Wow the red sure know how to throw a occupation party.

Please stop using the 10 year old kid as a political football. RIP

[gemini81]

Why don't the red leaders just let their supporters go home????? They aren't likely to gain anything now and it could save lives. I think they don't place much value on their 'sacrificial sheep'............................. And while I'm on the subject, why aren't those leaders at the front of the protest lines????????? They never get close to the action ------- COWARDS, deep down, I think................ all mouth, no guts........................

Because they will go back to be down trodden on and nothing will change the elites will win

Yes indeed, they will go back to be downtrodden by the Thaksin thugs who rule Isaan and keep the so called downtrodden in

their place.

Plenty of fancy suits and Mercedes Benz cars in Isaan. Open your farang craved eyes.

Not just Bangkok elite sunshine.

don't worry about farang cravings. he watches one video and talks aobut one controversial unrelated topic to the video. he knows nothing about the facts and hasn't seen the ENORMOUS amount of reds causing mayhem.

moral to the story: don't listen to your thaksin-supporting bar girl "girlfriend" while living up north away from BKK.

[thepodest]

So how did the kid get a bullet to the chest them

i think your the one whos a bit of an idiot here open your eyes

Because he got shot by somebody that WE DONT KNOW.

Enough with the kid's death?

If you have any proof I would gladly see it. But you don't. Just keep pulling stuff out of your arse and try to sell it as facts.

Its prett funny huh every time someone gets killed like the kid or da saeng nobody knows who did it well im sorry its VERY CLEAR who is doing the KILLING and that is the THAI MILITARY there is absolutely no doubt just check the hospitals

Check the hospital for what?

"It's very clear' No it is hel_l not! Don't you understand? You are assuming that your observations are facts. It is only "VERY CLEAR" according to you!!

[nickupton]

So how did the kid get a bullet to the chest them

i think your the one whos a bit of an idiot here open your eyes

Because he got shot by somebody that WE DONT KNOW.

Enough with the kid's death?

If you have any proof I would gladly see it. But you don't. Just keep pulling stuff out of your arse and try to sell it as facts.

Its prett funny huh every time someone gets killed like the kid or da saeng nobody knows who did it well im sorry its VERY CLEAR who is doing the KILLING and that is the THAI MILITARY there is absolutely no doubt just check the hospitals

So its not the redshirt guy with the machine gun or the one with the grenade launcher or that guy shooting the soldier in the truck then, or any of those other redshirt guards with guns?

My mistake, sorry.