More Bloodshed In Bangkok As Red Siege Continues

[khunjamespittman]

CRES financial blacklist include Thaksin, family members, relatives and some pro-Thaksin politicians as well as Seh Daeng. /via @tulsathit

now know why they left yesterday, probably tipped off

This should have been done months ago especially on Thaksin , now they should freeze all his and the familys overseas accounts and thet will slow him down , as for the leaders freeze all there assets have them put on terrorist watch lists in

case they escape.

See how far these reds go with out funding .

It is highly unlikely that this government will get any foreign government to freeze anything given their past record dealing with them. The have made so many claims of requests and demands in the media and virtually no diplomatic filings. I guess they think the UN is going to answer their email!

[ETatBKK]

Flying out next monday, coming back end of July. Visa expires in June. So I need to extend and get a re-entry permit.

too bad :-( next Wed go to the immigration and explain the situation, they may help !

post it again in the immigration forum and you may find couple of victims like you !

( sorry for off-topic )

Edited May 16, 2010 by ETatBKK

[gemini81]

If true then I bet it is not the PM agreeing to this. There continues to be those in the ranks who want to be the hero by ending this and each time they shoot themselves in the foot because the reds show they cannot be trusted. There is NOTHING left to negotiate, they simply need to vacate the area.

Edit: Even under curfew the authorities can arrange for reds to vacate the area through one of the exits to board buses or be taken to a staging area to later be escorted to their vehicles when timing permits.

and for some, they've even arranged accommodation for the next 6 months, at least!

I am not for amnesty but I would agree (if I had any power beyond posting) that they should not arrest ANYONE willing to leave the area nor should they check IDs as a tonight only type of deal. You can always round up these guys later. Plus you could see just how red police are by showing wanted pictures and giving rewards for tips that would be kept confidential and would also be available to the police in Issan.

not checking ID's could cause some real after effects that are catastrophic. Many who have active arrest warrants will slip out and vanish, or raise hel_l in another location. Why do they deserve any rewards?

[OzMick]

Please use your head. If soldiers were opening up on the reds with M16s ... you would see a lot more dead than 24 ... and aren't a couple of the dead now being reported to be soldiers?

If it turns out that any of them died to injuries sustained from slingshots I will instantly retract my previous statement. Naturally, all armed enemy combatants are fair play in my book. I just feel I could actually do more damage with my bare hands than with one of the most primitive projectile weapons on the planet so I would not consider it any more armed than, say, someone wielding a stick. Granted that walking around a live fire zone while swinging a stick around isn't the smartest idea either. You certainly won't catch me doing that.

I know what you're trying to say, that it is unfair. But the whole theme of military training is to be unfair; to have better weapons, tactics, training and intelligence, and how to use them to your advantage. This isn't a game of cards, it's bet your life.

Old, old saying: don't bring a knife to a gunfight; or a slingshot, or a stick. Add another "People willing to die, die just as easy" (apologies to Stormin' Norman)

Exactly true. Trained killers kill. Which is why the military should never have been brought into a civil disobedience conflict that was very peaceful before they arrived. The military is just doing their job - killing; it is not their fault. The blame rests with the poor decisions of Abhisit, a very weak leader indeed.

I absolutely refute that! The very low casualty count proves that the army is NOT killing wantonly. The video clip of the guy getting shot in the foot is a perfect example. the police couldn't handle the job, and the army are doing it for them.

for your entertainment:

FEMALE INTERVIEWER:

So, General Cosgrove, what things are you going to teach these young boys when they visit your base?

GENERAL COSGROVE:

We're going to teach them climbing, canoeing, archery and shooting.

FEMALE INTERVIEWER:

Shooting! That's a bit irresponsible, isn't it?

GENERAL COSGROVE:

I don't see why, they'll be properly supervised on the rifle range.

FEMALE INTERVIEWER:

Don't you admit that this is a terribly dangerous activity to be teaching children?

GENERAL COSGROVE:

I don't see how. We will be teaching them proper rifle discipline before they even touch a firearm.

FEMALE INTERVIEWER:

But you're equipping them to become violent killers.

GENERAL COSGROVE:

Well, Ma'am, you're equipped to be a prostitute, but you're not one, are you?

The radio went silent and the interview ended

Unfortunately it is a hoax.

[Davekid]

Pull the Army out. Dissolve parliament. Then the reds will go home. Dont be fooled. The army is killing civillians, just like they killed Seh Daeng. The government is stupid. Why do they think ths is going to work? Its taking Thailand back 30 years in the eyes of the world. You have to compromise and find a resolution. The government should dissolve immedaitely and elections should follow. It is the will of the people of Thailand.

[Neurath]

http://twitpic.com/1mvgri

Harry Potter in Red Camp.

You mean the funny looking guy in glasses toward the back or Veera standing beside Nattawut wearing the cloak of invisibility?

[khunjamespittman]

One thing you can always rely on from this forum is the intelligent, informative and astute comments. Many governments around the world could benefit greatly by appointing these people as senior advisors.

Do you think anyone would be fooled into actually believing we're all brilliant military strategists and diplomatic scholars as we seem to claim? LOL!

[jcbangkok]

I realize this is not the US and you can't fairly compare the way things are done but I am not sure ANYWHERE else would use he word "holiday" to describe Monday & Tuesday despite not having your work open due to potentially being killed.

[ETatBKK]

CRES financial blacklist include Thaksin, family members, relatives and some pro-Thaksin politicians as well as Seh Daeng. /via @tulsathit

now know why they left yesterday, probably tipped off

This should have been done months ago especially on Thaksin , now they should freeze all his and the familys overseas accounts and thet will slow him down , as for the leaders freeze all there assets have them put on terrorist watch lists in

case they escape.

See how far these reds go with out funding .

as far as I know, all the supporting money are bought in from someone else in CASH !

anyway, this is an effective measure yet it may take sometimes for true result.

[seahorse]

Before posting and laying blame on either side, consider the following from the news updates thread

"Odd that army isn't pushing forward to clear Rama IV". /via @markmackinnon

. Also consider many of the similar posts made, including some from the red supporting faction here (one was talking about soldiers clearing an overbridge, but not securing it). Now listen to what the government have been saying about not cracking down on the red camp, but sealing it off. The evidence is all there. The army is generally holding its position away from the main red camp, the more militant reds are coming out to meet, and attack, them. No red spin can be put on it, the facts are there in black and white. The burnings and lootings, the reason for the clashes, the direct cause of the current violence, can all be laid at the feet of the red shirts in their desire to attack the army. It doesn't take a genius to work out that if a ceasefire was really their aim it could be achieved instantly by not going near the soldiers. Unless they're doing the gene pool a favour by eliminating the idiots who think it's fine to wave sticks, throw molotov cocktails and fire marbles, as well as bullets, at heavily armed nervous soldiers, they must have some ulterior motive for these tactics. The big question is what is it? They turned down the chance for early elections and a face saving way out. Why would they do this if democracy was truly their aim? I can see two possibilities. Firstly, maybe they are waiting for the army to take total control of the country, effectively holding a coup, in the hope they attract more suporters to their cause. Or secondly, the man with multiple nationalities is still convinced deep in his twisted square mind that he will be called back as the saviour of the people and come flying in on a white business jet to sort it all out. In either case, he is investing heavily in this push for power prior to the army reshuffle, and more significant events to come. It's a business proposition for him, pure and simple. Speculate to accumulate, and he doesn't care one bit about the lives he's ending and ruining to achieve his goal.

they're luring the reds right on in to it. I agree, for all those who call the army and PM foolish or whatever, they know what they are achieving and to good effect. The main blessing is injuries and deaths are far less than they could have been. the amount of evidence in the case on the red siege is overwhelming.

Good post ballpoint. I think that it's becoming clear that the government / army are taking their time, trying to get the women and children out, doing as much as possible to minimise the collateral damage. But I don't think the policy is just containment of the red protest area, it also stops more reds getting in and possibly more importantly, supplies. This is one of the reasons why the reds have come out to attack and Din Daeng / Rajaprop has been such a big battleground, as it a strategic location at the end of the motorway from the north.

[Mekhong]

Pull the Army out. Dissolve parliament. Then the reds will go home. Dont be fooled. The army is killing civillians, just like they killed Seh Daeng. The government is stupid. Why do they think ths is going to work? Its taking Thailand back 30 years in the eyes of the world. You have to compromise and find a resolution. The government should dissolve immedaitely and elections should follow. It is the will of the people of Thailand.

Don't know if you are in Thailand or not but there is an expression here that fits you: farang mie roo ruang

[OzMick]

Politician game, Sure Abhisit cannot accept a mediationof UN as it is "Thai Internal Affairs" .....

He should have ask himeself UN mediation long time ago. What it means that it is Thai internal affairs? The Ireland case was not internal affairs? The Cyprus case is not internal affairs? The Darfur case is not internal affairs? Give me a break all of you that you don't want to talk about the possibility of having UN mediation! WHY? What the government afraid of asking UN mediation? To loose face? He has lost face long time ago! The US embassy is evacuating non-essential staff. Do you know what this means in the diplomatic language? It means that they do not trust the country's government as a credible government that can assure the public safety of civilians!

It means that your Ambassador was one of the coward who was the first on the roof in SAIGON and thinks I don't wanne miss that chopper now.

Guess that some on this forum already have started packing, because Viking 75, redparot and many other reds weren't here for some time, or have they joint the protesters???

I doubt it!!

the helicopter evacuation of Saigon was Operation Frequent Wind; probably couldn't spell flatulence.

[jcbangkok]

Why is it some people cannot respond to a post they disagree with without name calling? Do they not realize it will almost surely result in a suspension? Reminds of this illegal red mob who just keep shooting themselves in the foot in terms of having any of their grievances heard ... if they have any real ones beyond house dissolution.

[iciparis]

I absolutely refute that! The very low casualty count proves that the army is NOT killing wantonly. The video clip of the guy getting shot in the foot is a perfect example. the police couldn't handle the job, and the army are doing it for them.

for your entertainment:

FEMALE INTERVIEWER:

So, General Cosgrove, what things are you going to teach these young boys when they visit your base?

GENERAL COSGROVE:

We're going to teach them climbing, canoeing, archery and shooting.

FEMALE INTERVIEWER:

Shooting! That's a bit irresponsible, isn't it?

GENERAL COSGROVE:

I don't see why, they'll be properly supervised on the rifle range.

FEMALE INTERVIEWER:

Don't you admit that this is a terribly dangerous activity to be teaching children?

GENERAL COSGROVE:

I don't see how. We will be teaching them proper rifle discipline before they even touch a firearm.

FEMALE INTERVIEWER:

But you're equipping them to become violent killers.

GENERAL COSGROVE:

Well, Ma'am, you're equipped to be a prostitute, but you're not one, are you?

The radio went silent and the interview ended

Unfortunately it is a hoax.

COULD BE RADIO THAILAND

[sadako]

Yawn .....when they actually get around to doing something gimme a kick off my chair

Cheers

[gemini81]

Pull the Army out. Dissolve parliament. Then the reds will go home. Dont be fooled. The army is killing civillians, just like they killed Seh Daeng. The government is stupid. Why do they think ths is going to work? Its taking Thailand back 30 years in the eyes of the world. You have to compromise and find a resolution. The government should dissolve immedaitely and elections should follow. It is the will of the people of Thailand.

I can tell that was your first post! Dave, you don't know whats going on here, sorry.

[ratcatcher]

Pull the Army out. Dissolve parliament. Then the reds will go home. Dont be fooled. The army is killing civillians, just like they killed Seh Daeng. The government is stupid. Why do they think ths is going to work? Its taking Thailand back 30 years in the eyes of the world. You have to compromise and find a resolution. The government should dissolve immedaitely and elections should follow. It is the will of the people of Thailand.

Well Davekid,

for your very first post congratulations. You seem to have solved all the problems. We will forward your post to the government for immediate action.

Too bad nobody else on this board thought of this brilliant solution.

Stunning!

[ETatBKK]

Pull the Army out. Dissolve parliament. Then the reds will go home. Dont be fooled. The army is killing civillians, just like they killed Seh Daeng. The government is stupid. Why do they think ths is going to work? Its taking Thailand back 30 years in the eyes of the world. You have to compromise and find a resolution. The government should dissolve immedaitely and elections should follow. It is the will of the people of Thailand.

are you Thai ? are you represent 'people of Thailand' ?

rest have no comment.

[khunjamespittman]

Why is it some people cannot respond to a post they disagree with without name calling? Do they not realize it will almost surely result in a suspension? Reminds of this illegal red mob who just keep shooting themselves in the foot in terms of having any of their grievances heard ... if they have any real ones beyond house dissolution.

oic You strictly observe your own warning! Are you exempt from you own rule?

Quoted from your post " illegal red mob "

LOL!

[BKjohn]

According to international news, the government is sending the Thai Red Cross into the mob's encampment tomorrow to try and convince women, children and anyone who want's to t leave - can't say fairer than that. Those who remain will have to accept the consequences.

There is no way anyone in his right mind can blame the government for any deaths after so much effort.

Get out, go home or ..........

Interesting film coverage of reds looting shops and banks - the only thing where they get it wrong is that some woman reporter pointed at rocks and molotov cocktails and saying those are the mobs weapons .... there are so many pictures of them with guns and of course their favorite M79 grenades that this comes down to bad reporting.

[Neurath]

Please use your head. If soldiers were opening up on the reds with M16s ... you would see a lot more dead than 24 ... and aren't a couple of the dead now being reported to be soldiers?

If it turns out that any of them died to injuries sustained from slingshots I will instantly retract my previous statement. Naturally, all armed enemy combatants are fair play in my book. I just feel I could actually do more damage with my bare hands than with one of the most primitive projectile weapons on the planet so I would not consider it any more armed than, say, someone wielding a stick. Granted that walking around a live fire zone while swinging a stick around isn't the smartest idea either. You certainly won't catch me doing that.

I know what you're trying to say, that it is unfair. But the whole theme of military training is to be unfair; to have better weapons, tactics, training and intelligence, and how to use them to your advantage. This isn't a game of cards, it's bet your life.

Old, old saying: don't bring a knife to a gunfight; or a slingshot, or a stick. Add another "People willing to die, die just as easy" (apologies to Stormin' Norman)

My issue is with disproportionate force, nothing to do with fair. Has marshall law been declared? Are slingshots illegal? Are they considered weapons of war? Someone earlier mentioned they had received a warning for using a slingshot in the US during the 70's. Would it have made more sense for the police to just shoot him with an M-16? It leaves too much to interpretation especially since I know of no one to yet succumb to sling shot wounds, but the military is giving themselves extremely negative PR by firing against such weakly armed hooligans and it could potentially work against them in the long run, which is what I am fearing.

I want this situation to be resolved, but I just don't feel like this is going to solve anything. While paramedics and random rioters are dropping, the real, armed insurgents are using guerrilla and hit and run tactics all while using these more harmless (slingshot, tire burning, camera men, underwear guy, etc) people as human shields. Most of the rioters out there can and should be handled with tear gas, water trucks and a bit of roughing up. The problem is that behind them are armed, unknown insurgents who apparently even have their own snipers.

In short, everything's just a giant mess. Just my 2 cents.

Good points. Concur.

[BKjohn]

Why is it some people cannot respond to a post they disagree with without name calling? Do they not realize it will almost surely result in a suspension? Reminds of this illegal red mob who just keep shooting themselves in the foot in terms of having any of their grievances heard ... if they have any real ones beyond house dissolution.

oic You strictly observe your own warning! Are you exempt from you own rule?

Quoted from your post " illegal red mob "

LOL!

wow, some reds here really should visit a psychiatrist quickly!

" illegal red mob " is a statement of fact - its a mob and it is illegal and to take it further, its a mob with a strong terrorist fraction mixed in

[473geo]

If true then I bet it is not the PM agreeing to this. There continues to be those in the ranks who want to be the hero by ending this and each time they shoot themselves in the foot because the reds show they cannot be trusted. There is NOTHING left to negotiate, they simply need to vacate the area.

Edit: Even under curfew the authorities can arrange for reds to vacate the area through one of the exits to board buses or be taken to a staging area to later be escorted to their vehicles when timing permits.

and for some, they've even arranged accommodation for the next 6 months, at least!

I am not for amnesty but I would agree (if I had any power beyond posting) that they should not arrest ANYONE willing to leave the area nor should they check IDs as a tonight only type of deal. You can always round up these guys later. Plus you could see just how red police are by showing wanted pictures and giving rewards for tips that would be kept confidential and would also be available to the police in Issan.

not checking ID's could cause some real after effects that are catastrophic. Many who have active arrest warrants will slip out and vanish, or raise hel_l in another location. Why do they deserve any rewards?

Let's see now, man several stories up in a Hotel room........surrounded and escapes....

People in an area with several points of clandestine escape....will just walk out the front door and show their ID card.... .

[elcent]

Here goes the reconciliation ...

RT @georgebkk: Tweets saying Sathorn Soi1 has been invaded by redshirts. Residents stay home until confirmation. (TBC)

... another Embassy area.

[jcbangkok]

Pull the Army out. Dissolve parliament. Then the reds will go home. Dont be fooled. The army is killing civillians, just like they killed Seh Daeng. The government is stupid. Why do they think ths is going to work? Its taking Thailand back 30 years in the eyes of the world. You have to compromise and find a resolution. The government should dissolve immedaitely and elections should follow. It is the will of the people of Thailand.

Actually it is working and without ANY doubt will end with the reds going home. And don't fool yourself about the world eyes. They really could care less, they just want to be friendly with whoever comes out on top and why many call for talks even though they would NEVER put up with the red mob in their country.

And unless you want to see the house dissolved each time a TINY portion of the population take to the streets violently then the PM cannot dissolve the house under these conditions. In fact the PM went wayyyyy beyond what most would do in his shoes in terms of agreeing to sit down with protest leaders live on TV and negotiate and then offer to hold elections before the end of the year but the reds walked away from that negotiation and then went on to do all it could to provoke the gov't because they believe as you do that people will care if the gov't tried to enforce the law and the reds made it impossible without violence.

But what you and the reds leaders fail to understand now is people are fed up with the red mob and do see them as the problem and either understand or have demanded the gov't to take actions and accept that in doing so their will be numerous injuries ... the reds have left no other options in a civilized society.

There can be no democracy if a gov't is unable to enforce laws.

[Abrak]

Interesting film coverage of reds looting shops and banks - the only thing where they get it wrong is that some woman reporter pointed at rocks and molotov cocktails and saying those are the mobs weapons .... there are so many pictures of them with guns and of course their favorite M79 grenades that this comes down to bad reporting.

Looting banks. Actually I find it a total and utter disgrace that the Reds have occupied the Central shopping district and not looted either LV or Prada. They have no credibility in my eyes.

[Who, me ?]

Pull the Army out. Dissolve parliament. Then the reds will go home. Dont be fooled. The army is killing civillians, just like they killed Seh Daeng. The government is stupid. Why do they think ths is going to work? Its taking Thailand back 30 years in the eyes of the world. You have to compromise and find a resolution. The government should dissolve immedaitely and elections should follow. It is the will of the people of Thailand.

And one more, one !!!!

OK , Let's make it clear ONE MORE TIME...................

Reds had a deal in hand, the obtained what they said they wanted....

Then they screwed it themselves

Go back to study the case, and then, come back

[ozzieman05]

Pull the Army out. Dissolve parliament. Then the reds will go home. Dont be fooled. The army is killing civillians, just like they killed Seh Daeng. The government is stupid. Why do they think ths is going to work? Its taking Thailand back 30 years in the eyes of the world. You have to compromise and find a resolution. The government should dissolve immedaitely and elections should follow. It is the will of the people of Thailand.

Unbelievable

such intelligence for a 1st time poster

Can I ask you how many times have you been banned from TV

[jcbangkok]

Here goes the reconciliation ...

RT @georgebkk: Tweets saying Sathorn Soi1 has been invaded by redshirts. Residents stay home until confirmation. (TBC)

... another Embassy area.

Would be interesting to see if they storm and take over the US Embassy to see if the US would head its own advice of negotiating and talking and not using force.

[OzMick]

Is there a point in there somewhere?Stop making silly excuses. Time for some real leaders take over to stop this insanity and think about the people they are klilling.Saying we can't stop now is stupid. Can't anyone see the need to think outside the box?

excellent!! i'm so glad you agree with me.

no more silly excuses.

time to stop this insanity........end the protest.

think about the people they are killing.......let the women and children go home, stop attacking the soldiers.

yes, let's stop now.....yes, we can!!!

Does the use of white space in your post imply your power. Let me see if I understand you. Your idea on how to resolve a dispute between two parties is for them to allow you to dictate what they must do?

Just exactly how does that reach an agreement? Resolving a dispute usually involves reaching some kind of agreement between the disputing parties. Oh! That is except in a dictatorship.

Are you implying that you want to be the dictator?

My dear James, you hit the nail on the head with "Your idea on how to resolve a dispute between two parties is for them to allow you to dictate what they must do?"

That is EXACTLY what the reds have been doing since day1.