Thirty-five Dead In Worsening Bangkok Violence

[geepipe]

I sincerely apologize but I just don't have patience for you at this time of night. I suggest you learn more about what has transpired the last two months as well as understanding what the State of Emergency order in place reflects as well as what is considered a peaceful protest as well as peaceful civil disobedience. Your arguments are either just too ignorant and/or lacking too much common sense to respond more to at this late hour.

yeah nice cop out, attack the poster rather than the questions

there's nothing at all ignorant about what i said in response to your comment, also in the only 3 posts of yours ive read you've used the word ignorant and not just to me.

i'm plenty aware of the situation thanks.

anyway, sweet dreams now and thanks for your highly superior intelligent input.

[geepipe]

im not saying that the red shirts are all innocent but A LOT are. most are there ...

They are not innocent .. in addition to stealing and holding hostage billions of dollars in private and public property they have refused uncounted orders from lawful authorities to leave the area.

There are MANY ways to protest legally and to file grievances and fight for you rights in Thailand and NONE of what the reds have done fall under peaceful or law obeying citizens.

i thought i was pretty clear in saying that they're not all innocent?

and protests, regardless of what country, tend to affect business dont they?

did the coup not affect business? was that legal? was it filing a grievance and fighting for rights in a legal manner?

The point is you are saying a lot of them are innocent when this is completely untrue. It may have been very early on but now they are ALL criminals minus small children who don't understand. And it is just very ignorant to compare this to a protest in other parts of the world because it would not be tolerated in most all civilized countries or even be described as a protest.

I think we have to distinguish between the red-shirt protesters who have gone beyond protest and those people who sympathize with the red-shirt cause in general and would even go as far to classify themselves red-shirts but haven't been a part of this "protest" in Bangkok.

its laughable how ye can distinguish what exactly the 'right' level of protest is. you have to remember that things have escalated in time. protestors have been shot dead in front of their friends/family, of course this will generate more anger and extreme actions, violence breeds violence.

and i dont think anyone's in a position to call a 'who started it' and i mean extreme force not lobbing bricks and fireworks because that type of protest is common worldwide and dealt with with non lethal force in any civilised society.

and i certainly dont consider myself a red shirt, im not thai for one and thats all i need to say for that. though i have been at the protest site, so i have seen it with my own eyes but would never be retarded enough to involve myself. its not my place.

[jcbangkok]

im not saying that the red shirts are all innocent but A LOT are. most are there ...

They are not innocent .. in addition to stealing and holding hostage billions of dollars in private and public property they have refused uncounted orders from lawful authorities to leave the area.

There are MANY ways to protest legally and to file grievances and fight for you rights in Thailand and NONE of what the reds have done fall under peaceful or law obeying citizens.

i thought i was pretty clear in saying that they're not all innocent?

and protests, regardless of what country, tend to affect business dont they?

did the coup not affect business? was that legal? was it filing a grievance and fighting for rights in a legal manner?

The point is you are saying a lot of them are innocent when this is completely untrue. It may have been very early on but now they are ALL criminals minus small children who don't understand. And it is just very ignorant to compare this to a protest in other parts of the world because it would not be tolerated in most all civilized countries or even be described as a protest.

I think we have to distinguish between the red-shirt protesters who have gone beyond protest and those people who sympathize with the red-shirt cause in general and would even go as far to classify themselves red-shirts but haven't been a part of this "protest" in Bangkok.

I think anyone who aligns themselves with the red mob movement is _________ (fill in the blank with not so nice words).

I also believe there are MANY people who agree with the fact more needs to be done to create more opportunity for all in Thailand and that something specifically need to be done in the North East.

The Red Mob however are bent on ousting a government regardless of how well it treats the people of Thailand or the people in the North East. They have used violent illegal and violent tactics for years now to bring down this government at the expense of all Thailand. Nothing they do serves the purpose of the people they claim to be representing.

The list of treasonous things the red's have done is way too long to get into here but it includes everything from trying to kill the PM in broad daylight to storming international summit and forcing visiting political leaders to flee Thailand to storming the government house and forcing MP to flee and scale walls for safety.

It is one thing to petition for elections (they were told early on directly from the PM that he was willing to cut his term short and elections by the end of the year) or have peaceful protests, submit complaints to courts / election office (another place red stormed) or to simply wait for elections and hope your party wins than to do what the reds have done.

To call yourself a red is to align with this group. Maybe this is not what being a red meant 3 years ago but it is now.

Please do some fact checking to see all the current PM has done in less than 2 years in office for the poor of this country and then compare it to Thaksin who had 6-years and beyond the low priced medical (Abhisit now made it free) his big thing was to provide loans to the poor through their village leaders even though everyone knew they could never be repaid and only made the local leaders rich. There is not ONE policy Thaksin put in place for the poor that has been cancelled under Abhisit and most have actually been made better.

So, if you think the Red Leaders are fighting for the poor or the people of the NE, think again.

EDIT: Sorry, i went off on a tangent there but the point was I agree with what you are saying but also believe the Reds don't represent anything most of the people want to believe they represent. Nothing they are demanding or complaining about has to do with policies for the poor or the folks in the north. In fact, Red Leaders have stated there is not policies that Abhisit can put in place that would change their view that he must resign.

Edited May 17, 2010 by jcbangkok

[geepipe]

thats the most ignorant thing ive ever heard, too ignorant to comment on

[proto]

.. police brutality imposed on rodney king in la, english troops sent to northern ireland in 1911 ... forget it !!! Whomever believe that whatever wisdom eventually were learned from those and other western historical events could possibly help solving Thailands siuation as of today, clearly better have to buy a brainwash and start from there so they can start learning on a clean ground. The silliest thing I've ever seen on TV was when the long standing and to me hirhertho well respected member- Rinrada- compared the Bangkok situation to Fort Alamo where David Crockett and Jim Bowie somewhere in 16-18.th century almost saved USA from the total of Mexican hordes by standing back-to-back and waiving with heir bowie knives. I got one idol less then.

Lesson one: What is happening in Bangkok these days have never happened anywhere else in the world! - Better start from there.

Edited May 17, 2010 by proto

[roisoleil]

As any Google search of any major media outlet (and anyone who was here) will tell you Thaksin was ousted in a "silken coup" in 2006 jointly led by the Thai elite who felt he'd grown to big for his britches that was backed by the military. BYE BYE Mr. Shinawatra into exile for you. A corrupt bastard he probably deserved it.

Problem is Abhisit and his cronies failed to recognize that everything couldn't just go back to business as usual (they are as corrupt as he was - corruption being as endemic to Thailand as pretty beaches). Thaksin was no fool and had purchased support among the rural poor by sharing the spoils and spreading a little bit of the wealth around. When the Yellows came to power they ended that allowing, surprise, surprise, unrest to well-up as the poor realized that gov't could do for them but simply chose to neglect them.

Let us look at their concerns not now but as they were at the time of the coup. They did not then yearn for an immediate election. They cared more for issues affecting their day to day lives - poverty reduction, infrastructure, education and opportunity for their children to grow up into a life better than that to which they were bound - the basics.

IMHO if immediately after the coup, the gov't would have reached out and extended programs and taken concrete measures to address those concerns (education, poverty reduction, infrastructure etc.) in a concernted effort to reach out to and improve the lives of all the rural and working poor, they would have shifted their loyalties w/o problem and Thaksin would be nothing more than a distant memory today.

I am not suggesting a socialist nirvana, but if Thaksin found some $$$ for the poor and the current gov't cannot then the current gov't can scarecely claim to be more representative or legitimate than that of the insanely corrupt Thaksin Shinawatra.

The government blew this, the government owns this mess and you can all stop your whingeing b/c if you had to trade your place today with one of the Red Shirts my money is you'd be out protesting too and the fact that you were disrupting the playful, fun easygoing lives of expats and elite Thai wouldn't bother you overly much.

[ct70]

Had to register to have my say. I think once a government starts gunning down its own people, there is no point in continuing to discuss legal vs. illegal ways of protesting. It doesn't matter anymore what Thaksin did in the past. It doesn't matter what Abhisit has or has not achieved during his time as PM. The only way the government can continue after this much blood is by having the support of a large majority of Thais. And I don't know if they have that support.

[yoshiwara]

thats the most ignorant thing ive ever heard, too ignorant to comment on

given up on your red violence whitewash then?

[ianf]

thats the most ignorant thing ive ever heard, too ignorant to comment on

given up on your red violence whitewash then?

A number of posters on this thread have said that Abhisit is corrupt. Is this a fact or an assumption? If it is a fact could you please let us have your evidence. I was under the impression that he is the least corrupt PM that Thailand has had and that part of his battle with his colleagues is based on the campaign he has lead against corruption.

Let us know if you have facts to show that the opposite is true. Thanks

Edited May 17, 2010 by ianf

[maccaroni man]

it is true that thailand trends to be a country of have and have nots much the same as many developing and developed countries; indea, china, indonesia, malaysia, usa, italy..... so does this mean that the poor up country thais are stuck in a cast system from which they can never progress? NO, thais are free to got to school, get educated, work hard, save money and invest money, get bank loans, take risk, and do whatever is needed to gain wealth. so why do the reds and their supporters think that the govt under any leader will have some miracle cure for lazziness and lack of ambiton, why do taxes need to support some social program i.e. communist redistribution of wealth when many thais do what they need to do to have money, support their families and pay taxes.

[Spee]

The point is: history shows that violence will ALWAYS beget violence. These Thai deaths of the last two months will not be forgotten. A price for them will eventually have to be paid. Maybe not today or tomorrow, but eventually the country will implode. Look at Eastern Europe in 1989 (especially Romania).

Forgive me but you are so very very wrong.

The failure to respond to thuggish and brutal violence with greater force will always lead to more violence and innocent deaths. History is full of examples, past and present, including the current dispute in Bangkok. The Red thugs have crossed the line from peaceful productive protest, into completely uncalled for random, targeted and unproductive violence. There is no choice but to respond with greater force.

Your comment about Romania is particularly idiotic in suggesting that Romanians were better off under Ceausescu than after. Having completed an expat assignment there and gotten to know dozens of Romanians, I can assure you that the man was universally despised.

Edited May 17, 2010 by Spee

[travelingmike]

thats the most ignorant thing ive ever heard, too ignorant to comment on

given up on your red violence whitewash then?

A number of posters on this thread have said that Abhisit is corrupt. Is this a fact or an assumption? If it is a fact could you please let us have your evidence. I was under the impression that he is the least corrupt PM that Thailand has had and that part of his battle with his colleagues is based on the campaign he has lead against corruption.

Let us know if you have facts to show that the opposite is true. Thanks

Thank you.

[venturalaw]

thats the most ignorant thing ive ever heard, too ignorant to comment on

given up on your red violence whitewash then?

A number of posters on this thread have said that Abhisit is corrupt. Is this a fact or an assumption? If it is a fact could you please let us have your evidence. I was under the impression that he is the least corrupt PM that Thailand has had and that part of his battle with his colleagues is based on the campaign he has lead against corruption.

Let us know if you have facts to show that the opposite is true. Thanks

Well stated. Your question should result in separating the thugs from the realists. I'm not saying that there isn't anything that would warrant the current PM from losing the next election. I really don't know. But certainly it makes sense to wait and see rather than to destroy the country financially.

[Robby nz]

A number of posters on this thread have said that Abhisit is corrupt. Is this a fact or an assumption? If it is a fact could you please let us have your evidence. I was under the impression that he is the least corrupt PM that Thailand has had and that part of his battle with his colleagues is based on the campaign he has lead against corruption.

Let us know if you have facts to show that the opposite is true. Thanks

Got to second that.

I have seen the reds on this site proclaim many times that Abhisit is corrupt but have never seen any evidence produced to prove it while Thaksins corruption is well documented.

So come on you reds give us some details.

[tigerbalm]

i know i wont be popular for this viewpoint but i dont mind

i think some of the foreigner viewpoints on this forum are based more on selfish reasons rather than a devotion to "what's right"

im not saying that the red shirts are all innocent but A LOT are. most are there in the belief that an injustice was imposed on them with the coup, which at the end of the day it was - completely illegal.

after the coup they (government???) made rules that kept themselves safe from repercussions.

and it was only a month before elections were going to be held, why didn't they wait and do it legally? a military coup is never democratic.

people use the disclaimer 'thats just how thai politics goes' - balls - if thats the case they have no validation denouncing the red shirt people's cause do they - i say 'people' because im not talking about the leaders as i know they have a different agenda and im definitely no fan of mr T, im talking about the people on the ground.

im not even about taking sides, i think the leadership of each side are pretty slimy.

but it pisses me off to hear people tar a huge group of people with the same brush!

they're not all brainless criminals.

i think a lot of people and by that i mean foreigners! mainly ex pats and especially business owners makin a bit of cash just dont want the boat to get rocked and will feel venemous anger towards the people rocking it, regardless of their cause.

now we can speculate whether its about thaksins money, which seems very plausible but do you think joe red public is out there risking his life in the knowledge that its all about one guys money....hardly.

they passionately believe that they are fighting for an honest cause and just because there are hardliners in the group doesn't mean its fair to denounce them as being a violent group as a whole. the guys arming themselves are truly scum, 100% but the majority are using rocks, petrol bombs and fireworks....civilised state forces dont respond to this kind of rioting with lethal force and rightly so.

if they were as armed as thai officials try to make out there would be a hel_l of a lot more soldiers dead but no what do we have, a majority of unarmed people dead. im talking guns because you know armed protestors taken out would be all over the news there.

rant over

Great post could not agree more,

IMHO this has gone far beyond Taxin, and driving the UDD out of BK is not going to solve the core problem, the UDD movement is far bigger than most people can envisage far bigger. They need to reistablish the road map via the moderates within the reds, the longer this goes on the less likely it seams it will happen.

[jcbangkok]

These Thai deaths of the last two months will not be forgotten.

Sadly, they will be forgot rather quickly by those in Thailand and the rest of the world. The red mob has not even vacated yet and prior to the current violence, many had already put the deaths from last month behind them.

Thais are known for their ability to "forget" and the truth is the rest of the world cares little about what happens here except for when something sensational is actually happening. Look at the countries who are demanding/suggestion "talks" as a means to end the crisis but these same countries would never allow this type of lawlessness by the red mob. They say this because they just want to make sure they are still on friendly terms with whoever ends up in power be it now or down the road.

The US is a prime example. Can you imagine what would happen to people armed (forget guns, just spears & petrol bombs) trying to storm the US embassy? How many do you think would be able to walk away from that? How about a similar group storming the US Congress? Bottom line is they are not going to pick a side because they want to be friendly with all sides ... even the reds in case some day they do come back to power.

[Deeral]

it is true that thailand trends to be a country of have and have nots much the same as many developing and developed countries; indea, china, indonesia, malaysia, usa, italy..... so does this mean that the poor up country thais are stuck in a cast system from which they can never progress? NO, thais are free to got to school, get educated, work hard, save money and invest money, get bank loans, take risk, and do whatever is needed to gain wealth. so why do the reds and their supporters think that the govt under any leader will have some miracle cure for lazziness and lack of ambiton, why do taxes need to support some social program i.e. communist redistribution of wealth when many thais do what they need to do to have money, support their families and pay taxes.

"it is true that thailand trends to be a country of have and have nots much the same as many developing and developed countries; indea, china, indonesia, malaysia, usa, italy..... so does this mean that the poor up country thais are stuck in a cast system from which they can never progress?"

Well you said it !!!!!

I think you should read up a bit on your Thai social history especially "Sakdina" the Hindu-style caste system and how the vestiges of this system STILL have a profound effect on Thai society as a whole - right from the top to the bottom.

As for your ideas on "haves and have nots" - well Thailand has the biggest divide of rich and poor in the region - the figures for distribution of wealth in this country are astoudingly lop-sided. If you take a look around you will see evidence of this everywhere.

finally - many people like to call Thailand a "3rd World" country - this expression is useless and more a reflection on the speakers prejudices.

Thailand is a "Grade2 economy" - which puts it in the worlds second biggest economies grouping - it is a RICH country - but to look at it, you wouldn't think so sometimes - ask your self why.

THis protest in Bkk is not a "spur of the moment" event - it is a symptom of decades of inequity and a persistence by the ruling groups of elite to keep themselves in power.

Until Thailand has major political and constitutional reform, handing REAL POWER to the electorate - this problem will rumble on.

[Deeral]

it is true that thailand trends to be a country of have and have nots much the same as many developing and developed countries; indea, china, indonesia, malaysia, usa, italy..... so does this mean that the poor up country thais are stuck in a cast system from which they can never progress? NO, thais are free to got to school, get educated, work hard, save money and invest money, get bank loans, take risk, and do whatever is needed to gain wealth. so why do the reds and their supporters think that the govt under any leader will have some miracle cure for lazziness and lack of ambiton, why do taxes need to support some social program i.e. communist redistribution of wealth when many thais do what they need to do to have money, support their families and pay taxes.

"it is true that thailand trends to be a country of have and have nots much the same as many developing and developed countries; indea, china, indonesia, malaysia, usa, italy..... so does this mean that the poor up country thais are stuck in a cast system from which they can never progress?"

Well you said it !!!!!

I think you should read up a bit on your Thai social history especially "Sakdina" the Hindu-style caste system and how the vestiges of this system STILL have a profound effect on Thai society as a whole - right from the top to the bottom.

As for your ideas on "haves and have nots" - well Thailand has the biggest divide of rich and poor in the region - the figures for distribution of wealth in this country are astoudingly lop-sided. If you take a look around you will see evidence of this everywhere.

finally - many people like to call Thailand a "3rd World" country - this expression is useless and more a reflection on the speakers prejudices.

Thailand is a "Grade2 economy" - which puts it in the worlds second biggest economies grouping - it is a RICH country - but to look at it, you wouldn't think so sometimes - ask your self why.

THis protest in Bkk is not a "spur of the moment" event - it is a symptom of decades of inequity and a persistence by the ruling groups of elite to keep themselves in power.

Until Thailand has major political and constitutional reform, handing REAL POWER to the electorate - this problem will rumble on.

[Deeral]

i know i wont be popular for this viewpoint but i dont mind

i think some of the foreigner viewpoints on this forum are based more on selfish reasons rather than a devotion to "what's right"

im not saying that the red shirts are all innocent but A LOT are. most are there in the belief that an injustice was imposed on them with the coup, which at the end of the day it was - completely illegal.

after the coup they (government???) made rules that kept themselves safe from repercussions.

and it was only a month before elections were going to be held, why didn't they wait and do it legally? a military coup is never democratic.

people use the disclaimer 'thats just how thai politics goes' - balls - if thats the case they have no validation denouncing the red shirt people's cause do they - i say 'people' because im not talking about the leaders as i know they have a different agenda and im definitely no fan of mr T, im talking about the people on the ground.

im not even about taking sides, i think the leadership of each side are pretty slimy.

but it pisses me off to hear people tar a huge group of people with the same brush!

they're not all brainless criminals.

i think a lot of people and by that i mean foreigners! mainly ex pats and especially business owners makin a bit of cash just dont want the boat to get rocked and will feel venemous anger towards the people rocking it, regardless of their cause.

now we can speculate whether its about thaksins money, which seems very plausible but do you think joe red public is out there risking his life in the knowledge that its all about one guys money....hardly.

they passionately believe that they are fighting for an honest cause and just because there are hardliners in the group doesn't mean its fair to denounce them as being a violent group as a whole. the guys arming themselves are truly scum, 100% but the majority are using rocks, petrol bombs and fireworks....civilised state forces dont respond to this kind of rioting with lethal force and rightly so.

if they were as armed as thai officials try to make out there would be a hel_l of a lot more soldiers dead but no what do we have, a majority of unarmed people dead. im talking guns because you know armed protestors taken out would be all over the news there.

rant over

Great post could not agree more,

IMHO this has gone far beyond Taxin, and driving the UDD out of BK is not going to solve the core problem, the UDD movement is far bigger than most people can envisage far bigger. They need to reistablish the road map via the moderates within the reds, the longer this goes on the less likely it seams it will happen.

Agreed - but I'm afraid that on this site you a flogging a dead horse.

It is a SAD, SAD reflection on the expat community in THailand that the best they can do is spout the kind of bloodthirsty vitriol that has dominated this site.

[qualtrough]

These Thai deaths of the last two months will not be forgotten.

Sadly, they will be forgot rather quickly by those in Thailand and the rest of the world. The red mob has not even vacated yet and prior to the current violence, many had already put the deaths from last month behind them.

Thais are known for their ability to "forget" and the truth is the rest of the world cares little about what happens here except for when something sensational is actually happening. Look at the countries who are demanding/suggestion "talks" as a means to end the crisis but these same countries would never allow this type of lawlessness by the red mob. They say this because they just want to make sure they are still on friendly terms with whoever ends up in power be it now or down the road.

The US is a prime example. Can you imagine what would happen to people armed (forget guns, just spears & petrol bombs) trying to storm the US embassy? How many do you think would be able to walk away from that? How about a similar group storming the US Congress? Bottom line is they are not going to pick a side because they want to be friendly with all sides ... even the reds in case some day they do come back to power.

As long as we are on comparisons, can you imagine what would happen if a group stormed and occupied an international airport for 10 days? How about if the same group occupied the seat of government for two months? What would happen to them? How about if more than a year later those same people instigating all that are walking around scot free while their court cases tediously wind their way through the Thai legal system, to eventually disappear? While the same courts act with lightning speed to unseat a prime minister because he received a handful of change for a TV show he hosted, and to ban opposition political parties from competing in elections. How about if someone who visited and gave support to the group occupying the airport was later made Foreign Minister? What about army snipers picking off rioters in the streets, more than 30 of them over a period of several days? How would all that fly overseas?

[earthpig]

For the barbarian posters here who prefer the spilling of thai blood to amnesty, you may wish to note that even the Nation is using the "A" word:

"The red-shirt tactics appear to have been lifted straight from the textbook for urban guerrilla warfare compiled by leftists and ex-communists after the October 1976 bloodshed. Thailand foiled the plan to bring guerrilla warfare from rural areas to the capital by granting amnesty to activists who fled after the bloodshed."

If thailand could put an end to communisty violence in the months after vietnam, if bush/cheney could so briliantly convince the sunni tribes to switch sides and thereby bring on the legitimate government and democracy we now see in Iraq, then Abhisit can, and MUST, announce a general amnesty.

For all.

Except Montenegrin citizens. Of course. To allow Thaksin's return would be the blunder of blunders. He is far too smart and far too evil. But the risk of further delay is that the gov's bargaining position will become so weak that this might happen.

AMNESTY NOW.

Before the Reds win.

[ukfool]

A number of posters on this thread have said that Abhisit is corrupt. Is this a fact or an assumption? If it is a fact could you please let us have your evidence. I was under the impression that he is the least corrupt PM that Thailand has had and that part of his battle with his colleagues is based on the campaign he has lead against corruption.

Let us know if you have facts to show that the opposite is true. Thanks

Got to second that.

I have seen the reds on this site proclaim many times that Abhisit is corrupt but have never seen any evidence produced to prove it while Thaksins corruption is well documented.

So come on you reds give us some details.

I'm not a 'red' but do know his fathers company footed most of his 'election' bills, and money has been steadily siphoned from the Thai people, not forgetting Thaksins billions, which went god knows where, is that corrupt ?

[NedKelly]

Dear all....Can someone give an accurate and truthful update on the Sukhumvit army checkpoint if there is one ?? Like where is it exactly ? Can people pass by to hotels or is it a ghost town already ? And what about lower Sukhumvit up to say Soi 15 ??

[boggle]

Dear all....Can someone give an accurate and truthful update on the Sukhumvit army checkpoint if there is one ?? Like where is it exactly ? Can people pass by to hotels or is it a ghost town already ? And what about lower Sukhumvit up to say Soi 15 ??

There is only one check point and that is down around soi 3 leading onto Rama 1. All the rest of Suk is open.

"such is life"

Edited May 18, 2010 by boggle

[tigerbalm]

A number of posters on this thread have said that Abhisit is corrupt. Is this a fact or an assumption? If it is a fact could you please let us have your evidence. I was under the impression that he is the least corrupt PM that Thailand has had and that part of his battle with his colleagues is based on the campaign he has lead against corruption.

Let us know if you have facts to show that the opposite is true. Thanks

Got to second that.

I have seen the reds on this site proclaim many times that Abhisit is corrupt but have never seen any evidence produced to prove it while Thaksins corruption is well documented.

So come on you reds give us some details.

I'm not a 'red' but do know his fathers company footed most of his 'election' bills, and money has been steadily siphoned from the Thai people, not forgetting Thaksins billions, which went god knows where, is that corrupt ?

You might also want to take a look at this.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/KJ07Ae01.html

Alough it does not indite the PM personally most of what seems to have allegedly taken place and is being looked at, it does how ever come under his watch.

I don't think Abhisits father actually owns the company in question which i believe is CP Foods if you look at the list of Directors you will i believe find his family name as one on the board of directors,.the company is heavily invested in China, much to the disappointment of the Dalia Lamas sister who was recently refused a Visa from Thailand, i suspect some one with vested interests in China did not want to upset them rightly or wrongly.

[jfchandler]

That's correct, though vehicle access to and from the expressway at Suk Soi 1 is still open...

But starting today, the Army began doing vehicle searches there for westbound traffic, checking all and stopping some, asking to open trunks and such. So there was a couple block backup there this morning... Going any further west to the Ploenchit BTS station gets you into the red barricades.

Everything from Suk Soi 3/4 eastward toward On Nut is open and clear, with traffic much lighter than usual, for obvious reasons.

A fair number of businesses were closed yesterday and today in the area. That doesn't mean you can't get what you need. It just means you may have to go to a second or third choice, because your first choice is not open.

Still waiting to hear whether BTS and MRT might resume any kind of service tomorrow/Wednesday.

Dear all....Can someone give an accurate and truthful update on the Sukhumvit army checkpoint if there is one ?? Like where is it exactly ? Can people pass by to hotels or is it a ghost town already ? And what about lower Sukhumvit up to say Soi 15 ??

There is only one check point and that is down around soi 3 leading onto Rama 1. All the rest of Suk is open.

"such is life"

[NedKelly]

Thanks for the updates all.......my thoughts were that where theres a checkpoint its possible to see some conflict so keep yr heads down around there from now on..!

[NedKelly]

Thanks for the updates all.......my thoughts were that where theres a checkpoint its possible to see some conflict so keep yr heads down around there from now on..!

[JetsetBkk]

<snip>

There are MANY ways to protest legally and to file grievances and fight for you rights in Thailand and NONE of what the reds have done fall under peaceful or law obeying citizens.

"None"? Absolutely none? You haven't seen or read anything about the peaceful red protesters that are just sitting around occupying their site, listening to various speakers, clapping the little red clappers. You haven't seen any of that?

All you see are the TV reports showing the red morons causing trouble, firing sling shots and guns, burning tyres, etc and you think they comprise the entire group of red shirts? Surely you can't be that dense. Or is exaggeration just your way of expressing yourself?

When you snip a quote and that addresses exactly what you are ignorantly speaking about it shows a certain level of dishonesty.

<snip>

On the contrary, I am following forum guidelines:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Tot-Ordered-...t&p=3253483

There's another guideline about flaming, but that one seems to be largely ignored these days.

[tomyummer]

These Thai deaths of the last two months will not be forgotten.

Sadly, they will be forgot rather quickly by those in Thailand and the rest of the world. The red mob has not even vacated yet and prior to the current violence, many had already put the deaths from last month behind them.

Thais are known for their ability to "forget" and the truth is the rest of the world cares little about what happens here except for when something sensational is actually happening. Look at the countries who are demanding/suggestion "talks" as a means to end the crisis but these same countries would never allow this type of lawlessness by the red mob. They say this because they just want to make sure they are still on friendly terms with whoever ends up in power be it now or down the road.

The US is a prime example. Can you imagine what would happen to people armed (forget guns, just spears & petrol bombs) trying to storm the US embassy? How many do you think would be able to walk away from that? How about a similar group storming the US Congress? Bottom line is they are not going to pick a side because they want to be friendly with all sides ... even the reds in case some day they do come back to power.

Okay, I agree. But more importantly...........where did you get that awesome shirt in your icon photo? Just like Bono's (red) campaign, right? Love it. Would be funnier if the font was colored yellow. Clever. dam_n clever. Seriously, where'd you get it?