Thousands Of Thai Protesters Defy Deadline To Leave

[toenail]

Featography said (above) "Oh, and for the love of God, drop the infamy building of Tacksin. This grew far beyond one man oh so long ago. Live or dead, Tacksin is not the center of the Red universe. Democracy is. Some of you are right, Thai don't know what Democracy really is, but they have learned enough from the outside to know they want it...

*******************

comments: Didn't most developed countries go through a process where the rural areas were less developed/wealth than the cities 60..70..80 years ago? The difference between the rural areas of today in any poor developing country is that the country villages have TV sets, and other technology to show them what they are missing. My grandparents grew up on a simple farm in Canada with no water, no electricity but they never felt the "city elite" owed them anything; yet they were not bombarded with commercialism back then. Next, compare the Thai rural life to the ones in Laos, Cambodia or in Kenya. The villages (I have seen) in Isaan do have running water and electricity--better than Laos... My poor grandparents didn' t feel like the big "city elite" owed them anything. According to my two Thai friends who come from Isaan (they now work in BKK)explained to me that the majority of the rural population were never upset about their rural ways until the Thaksin supporters started to go around to the rural villages this year and started making false accusatons about the government. Before, the older generation accepted their way of life and the younger ones knew they could go to the "big cities" to make more money or to better themselves through education. These pro -Thaksin agitators took advantage of the naivety of the Thais living in the North and Isaan and even gave paid for them to go to the protests. ---So, for "Featography" to say drop the Thaksin word when discussing the Red protesters is ignoring a major factor. Thai has democracy. Part of the problem is that the schools do not educate their students about their constitution and the civic responsibilities. Meanwhile, the various political parties fail to accept election results...they all want to change the rules. (And Thaksin is determined to use his billions to do so)

[OzMick]

There is nothing else the government can do at this time. The reds have painted the government into a corner.

Look at the last 4 days. The government moves to contain the Rachprasong rally. Contain ---- not crackdown! The troops move in to the areas around the reds and the reds attack. They continue to come OUT of Rachprasong and attack. The troops have not moved into the rachprasong area. The troops are working on containing them and that is all.

Personally, I assume that the government thought that this would happen. The roudier, violent, and less well trained reds are coming out and attacking and this so far has kept the 'relatively' innocent grannies, women, and totally innocent children safer inside the main rally encampment while the troops deal with the more violent reds.

I am stymied at how they plan to really proceed though. I don't see how they can move in from here. I also think that Sae Daeng's ronin will open fire on the hostages inside the red compound if the government moves in, in a bid to discredit the government.

I hope they have a plan that can give some safety to the grannies and children.

Has it occured to anyone in TV that the good General Seh Dang has trained well, the RD leaders, who have spread the training down the ranks. Look at the big picture people. They seem insane to us on the internet, but they have been very organized, very tactical, very self controlled, and the women, elderly, children have been kept in the center, or close to pathways to get to center of the compound when needed. Very strategic on their part, and very systematic in their activity day by day. Its the govt and military that are fully aware that the Reds have been trained by the best, and its the govt and military that acts more like the amateurs. Thats why he was taken out of the equation by a sniper. The probable thought being, if the general is dead, panic will sweep thru the RD camp and they will either scatter, or be confused and easily swayed or conquered. It appears that the general has instilled not only tactical training, but also fed their intestinal fortitude as well. Oh, and for the love of God, drop the infamy building of Tacksin. This grew far beyond one man oh so long ago. Live or dead, Tacksin is not the center of the Red universe. Democracy is. Some of you are right, Thai don't know what Democracy really is, but they have learned enough from the outside to know they want it, and when it comes to learning what all is involved with Democracy, the Reds and students are learning at an exponential rate. For you average iq and education farang, that means Thai are like dry squeezed sponges released in water. They are absorbing their fill, and Thailand will never be the same after this is finally settled.

Well what do you know, a red apologist who has got it right. Yes, they want democracy and are prepared to die for it. Good on them. The trouble is "...........Thai don't know what Democracy really is........", so they don't realise that they've already got it, and are stuffing it royally because of the BS Thaksin's cronies are feeding them.

The one's not being fed crap every day are seeing the light, and in Isaan support is dropping like Newton's apple. The moths too close the flame are about to get burned, and it is a dam_n shame.

[Thai at Heart]

Korbsak calls Natthawut

PM's Secretary-General Korbsak Sabhavasu made talked to Natthawut Saikua over a phone at 4 pm, Thai News Agency reported.

Following the phone call, Natthawut held a meeting with other red-shirt leaders immediately.

a thin chance of ceasefire ? . or too late ?

I somehow doubt that the reds leaders are completely in control of their crowd/militia anyway.

This is taking on it's own life.

Sundown soon. I think you can guarantee it is going to be a long night.

[somtampet]

as Thai mother I am shocked and angry that a Thai mother (or father) could even think of doing that, one reason I would apply death penalty to the parents. Children MUST NOT be there and that's it! Whoever even discuss it is a criminal.

About the futile effort to disperse the reds; welcome to the result of a "mai pen rai" society: complete failure in whatever we do.

I say the Thai need to listen to this Thai mom... You got my ear..email me anytime...lets talk!!

It is hard to find a smart Thai woman..who speaks the truth...

You want a date with her,she might have 6 kids you know

[kaengk]

For all those obsessed with children's rights, renowned international children's rights activist Prateep Ungsongtham Hata is setting up a stage on Rama IV in Klong Toey to rally for the Reds! Wiki her to learn more about this very well respected lady.

[toenail]

whay are the military not using water cannons as they do in the west??? all it would take is a few and you would blow them all out of the area as the tropps advance behind

I've been wondering the same thing.

********************

The police probably sold the water cannons to some shop owner.

[Pax50]

Wow! The reds defied the deadline? I thought that they would pack up and go home peacefully .

Are you out of your mind? Comply with the deadline, go home peacefully to their families, rice farms and simolteniously lose their 500 baht per day job?

[pornsasi]

Wow your assumptions astound me.

I don't support yellow or red and I don't support illegal protesting. I could care less if they do this peacefully and not inconvenient other people's lives.

You can go back to your red masters and get your daily paycheque.

Perhaps you should ask yourself why people are willing to die ?

And dont tell me Thaksin or 500b/day .

Whichever not a reason to spray them with automatic gun fire .

I dont support illegal protest either , i say use water cannon , tear gas ,

even rubber bullet .

[Everett]

Your CRAZY! No excuse for putting innocent child in line of fire. Did he ask to be there? In the U.S.A. they cite you for not having a child in a car seat!!!!

I don't disagree with you!

I just wanted to comment because your car seat comment along with all of the other government involvement in our everyday life is exactly why I'm no longer in the USA, and have absolutely no plans of ever returning there.

Last time I left the USA, they tried to take naked pictures of me at the airport! When I told them no, and tried to ask what the deal with the naked body scanner was -- they harrassed and intimidated me as well as threatened me asking me if I want to be able to fly ever again!!

If people were protesting in the USA, they would have all been beaten, arrested, and fined just for standing on the public sidewalk... just for peacefully assembling. Perhaps forced to go to a "free speech" zone located somewhere where no one will hear or see them. You probably saw what happened at the G20.

Another very interesting thing is that the troops are all Thai people correct? Thai people, serving in the Thai military if I'm not mistaken? Not UN troops (FOREIGN TROOPS) from who knows where that have no clue what kind of laws or constitution your country has. Nor are they troops that wear no identification that work for some private corporation (similiar to blackwater/XE) that don't want to tell you who they are with. You see both of those in the USA instead of US soldiers. -- it's nonsense. Not to mention that it's supposed to be illegal for US troops to be out policing the streets like cops.

My small comment about the child seat turned into a bit of a rant! Sorry about that!

[dorris]

If we decide to appease the international standard, talk will resume. But given the way that the UDD are behaving, should talk resume and only to be broken down by unbelievable demands again? The funny thing is how the international press (CNN and BBC) are portraying Thaksin as 'only' living abroad and not as a fugitive, what gives, are there too many definition of fugitive? It's these kind of press misinformation that gives Thaksin legitimacy to his claim of innocence.

Now that it's off my chest. Let's get back on topic.

since the govenrment gave the UDD a clear deadline to vacate the premises, then I believe that they are disobeying the law. There should be some punishment for that. The demand by UDD to withdraw the troop is totally outrageous, that would tantamount to 'red' victory. If only the leaders would take off their blindfold (or off any medications) then maybe they'll give realistic demands. But that's too late now. They have now given the gov't every right to use force to disperse the crowd, though I wish that they'll use 'less than lethal' force to do it.

I realize that not many know this, but does anybody realize that Thaksin pays every red shirt 500Baht per day to fight his war, which is why there are still 5000 reds fighting this battle. This is the only reason. Money. This civial war is all about money.

When Thaksin was in power he stole a large majority of the countries money, and then gives some to his supporters, which is why they love him, because he gives them money. He still has billions of dollars he stole from Thailand, and no one can find it or retrieve it, so he now uses this money to pay his "conscript" army to fight this war against the country who ousted him from power.

With all this money, Thaksin has many "friends" around the world who will help him and harbour this fugitive. All about the money.

How much would it cost do you think, to have this man tracked down and "delt with"? If there is no Thaksin, and no one to pay the reds to fight, then wouldn't this whole situation dissolve?

An international hitman was rumoured to have been hired to shoot the most radical red leader, a rebel general of the Thai army, in a live interview on TV on Thursday, conveniently when the army was deployed, along with many snipers, to surround and contain the reds. So most people don't know who the shooter was. This was obviously an attempt at dissolving the reds morale and hopefully end the conflict, but unfortunately this is not the root of the problem, as we can still see they are happy to fight to the death for Thaksin, and bring their whole families along to die with them.

The reds are also being supplied with weapons from somewhere, weapons not used by the Thai army, and they don't know where the weapons are coming from or who is supplying. These are things that the Thai government want to keep quiet from the world because it brings up a lot of questions which they are still trying to find the answers for themselves.

In my opinion, the reds mentality is completely money driven, and without care for any lives, be they innocent or not. They are also clearly not Buddhist people, who believe in peace, non-violence, amongst many other things that the red "army" is completely ignorant of. I am completely and utterly shocked and appauled by this whole thing and pray that this all ends peacefully and quickly.

Blessed be all who walk the earth and may their hearts be filled with love and peace for all.

[bkk75]

Wow your assumptions astound me.

I don't support yellow or red and I don't support illegal protesting. I could care less if they do this peacefully and not inconvenient other people's lives.

You can go back to your red masters and get your daily paycheque.

Perhaps you should ask yourself why people are willing to die ?

And dont tell me Thaksin or 500b/day .

Whichever not a reason to spray them with automatic gun fire .

I dont support illegal protest either , i say use water cannon , tear gas ,

even rubber bullet .

They're not willing to die..but they're more scared or probably threatened by the red shirt leaders!

Remember their ID cards are being held by them..think you can just easily leave?

It's like being in a gang and trying to chicken out..good luck!

You say you don't support illegal protests yet you fully support the red shirt's activities...bit hypocritical.

[BlackJack]

I wonder how Mr Thaksin wants to be remembered by history?

THe classic yellow rethoric .

When they see they are losing the contest , they bring in Thaksin

I realise that english is your second language and so i must point out that it is an open question that neither praises or cans anyone.

It is simply stating what part in Thai history he will be remembered for.

Something to ponder on.

[pornsasi]

@Pornsasi, since I'm busy dealing with the reality that this situation is causing I don't have time to respond ad infinitum, however, might I take this opportunity to remind you that Lumpini Police station barracks [the living accommodation for families] was specifically targeted with M79 grenades at least twice on Saturday [iIRC the day not the event] causing injuries to civilians including children.

Regards

Edit to add M79 grenades for clarity//

By the reds ?

I thought police on the red side .

[BlackJack]

My girlfriend has a visa appointment with the Britsih Embassy Bangkok on tuesday.

Sure the embassy will be closed.

I know the red shirts are standing up for their own rights but how many people's lifes

of all parts of society have they inconvenienced and as for the government.

Could you imagine this in London, New york or Moscow in the finacial districts.

Would have been sorted out with in a couple of weeks.

Remember how pathetically the government dealt with the yellow shirt demostrators

at Bkk airport. Could you imagine that being tolerated in Heathrow or JFK airport.

Sorry to say this but Thailand is looking a bit of a joke and it is a good time for

another South East Asian country to really promote themselves as a new major

holiday destination.

Of course your gf visa appointment is far more important than democracy.How dare they start trouble when you need your visa

Democracy?

ditto

[A_Traveller]

I wonder how Mr Thaksin wants to be remembered by history?

Apparently as shopping in Louis Vuitton as Bangkok burned.

Regards

[xenomorph]

Would you call that boy looking over the tyres a human shield.I suggest you print something factual.My thioughts would have been,he is showing the boy to the soldiers to show that he is there.

Where's the difference?

I see this every day:

So why would anyone in here get upset with the boy behind the tires anyway? I'm glad I don't got any kids in this country. I've seen how reckless the school bus (school pickups) drivers are when taking the kids from school as well.

.

Edited May 17, 2010 by xenomorph

[whybother]

No motive , were you there ?

Occam's razor.

There was no one else there.

What does motive have to do with it? I could think of a hundred reason's but they would be complete speculation.

So without speculating, who else could have done it, considering the reds basically control the area?

Anybody entering the area . Not saying its not the reds , not saying its the red either .

I dont know and neither do you

arrrggghhh

[ETatBKK]

Korbsak calls Natthawut

PM's Secretary-General Korbsak Sabhavasu made talked to Natthawut Saikua over a phone at 4 pm, Thai News Agency reported.

Following the phone call, Natthawut held a meeting with other red-shirt leaders immediately.

a thin chance of ceasefire ? . or too late ?

I somehow doubt that the reds leaders are completely in control of their crowd/militia anyway.

This is taking on it's own life.

Sundown soon. I think you can guarantee it is going to be a long night.

I doubt their span of control up to those front line militia. hijacking a gas tanker is a 'bad' example :-(

what it means, the red leaders could talk and could think one direction, the ground reacts in completely dis-ordered manner.

[dundee007]

whay are the military not using water cannons as they do in the west??? all it would take is a few and you would blow them all out of the area as the tropps advance behind

I've been wondering the same thing.

yeah....i was thinking the same....it will help put out the burning tires too.

[gemini81]

baby in a warzone is just WRONG!!!!!!!!!! what's up with you red murder!!!!!!

well YEAH. But don't you see, they're using it as a tool to get their way. I'm sure it was in the stategy. The masterminds are in the center. If the soldiers come, the 3 henchmen are arrested.

What are these "rockets" being fired at the helicopters in the lastest reports? Not RPG's I hope. (well then again, Thaksin did go on a military shopping spree with Russia) I guess anything is possible with his Thaksin Youth.

[pornsasi]

I wonder how Mr Thaksin wants to be remembered by history?

THe classic yellow rethoric .

When they see they are losing the contest , they bring in Thaksin

I realise that english is your second language and so i must point out that it is an open question that neither praises or cans anyone.

It is simply stating what part in Thai history he will be remembered for.

Something to ponder on.

He will be remembered for horrific Tai Bak and War on drugs as far as am concerned .

But with something to show in economic terms according to the World Bank

and a whole bunch of isaan

While the PM needs another 20 more dead to equal his kill ratio as far as Tai Bak

is concerned.

With nothing to show

i guess history will remember both ...

Edited May 17, 2010 by pornsasi

[potters]

Interesting to see Natawut(Red Leader) on TV wearing his POLO shirt with a US emblem on it

what an insult to the US.

That shirt alone must be worth 3000 bht doubt it is a Sukhumvit copy.

Good to see he is suffering then while people put there lives on the line because

he says they should.

[neverdie]

Remember their ID cards are being held by them..think you can just easily leave?

I don't understand what the big dilema about the id card is. Simply leave, get another id card at a later date. Why bother even telling the leaders you're leaving.

[dominique355]

On Channel 3 they just showed some life scenes from the streets of Bangkok, a gasoline truck on fire, young men setting fire to tires, pick-up trucks bringing in whole truckloads of tires, men throwing Molotow cocktails at soldiers ....

Are these still the "Red Shirts", the poor, underprivileged farmers from Isaan, the honest grassroot people coming to Bangkok to demonstrate for more Democracy and against double standars?

Hardly. There are professional thugs and hooligans of the worst kind who have no idea of the consequences of their senseless violence. They certainly won't listen to any voice of reason, any offer of talk or compromise. The only language they understand is force, power, handcuffs and a prison cell, for 10 years.

The Red Shirt leaders have long totally lost control and the Government would be well advised to stop any attempt to peacefully end this war.

Go get them and put them away, for as long as possible.

[dominique355]

Remember their ID cards are being held by them..think you can just easily leave?

I don't understand what the big dilema about the id card is. Simply leave, get another id card at a later date. Why bother even telling the leaders you're leaving.

Because they have to apply for a new ID card with their local leaders, which will give them away as "traitors" facing all kind of revenge and harassment from the local Red Shirt leaders.

[neverdie]

Remember their ID cards are being held by them..think you can just easily leave?

I don't understand what the big dilema about the id card is. Simply leave, get another id card at a later date. Why bother even telling the leaders you're leaving.

Because they have to apply for a new ID card with their local leaders, which will give them away as "traitors" facing all kind of revenge and harassment from the local Red Shirt leaders.

Thats strange, last time we went to get a replace ID Card, we didnt have to go and see the local red shirt leaders.

Edited May 17, 2010 by neverdie

[OzMick]

Invade hospital yes and wrong

Shoot RPG at hotel . Any proof ? None

Bring children in hot fire zone . yes wrong

Set city on fire . A few tires yes , not city .

Shooting at civilians with live bullets : yes and wrong

Shooting 10 yo boy yes and wrong

Why dont you cut the BS and stick to facts

The RPG was shot at the Dusit Thani by the yellow mob protesting in Lumpini Park.

Or was it the army that are further down Silom (and therefore can't see the hotel).

It was the reds. There was no one else around.

Show some proofs then ...

Or tell me a reason ...

The army are stating categorically that they will not use RPGs and M-79s so that the damage from these weapons is rightfully blamed on the reds who are using them.

The reds believed that army snipers were using the Dusit Thani to shoot into Lumpini

Both, and not hard at all!

[naughty1atnight]

Children subject: Wasn't it supposed to be non violent?

The army is doing all the shooting.

The public is protesting.

The army shouldn't be shooting any one!

Would you call that boy looking over the tyres a human shield.I suggest you print something factual.My thioughts would have been,he is showing the boy to the soldiers to show that he is there.

NOW

If someone had said the boy should not be there i would have agreed but dont spout crap on here

Carrying a child to a barricade where you are likely to encounter violence and then showing the child IS using the child as a human shield. The child shouldn't be there and the parents should be tried for negligence! If the troops take fire from that area they are now faced with the moral quandry --- return fire knowing a child is there or accept the fire!

Mixing in non-combatants with combatants is the very definition of using human shields.

[gemini81]

On Channel 3 they just showed some life scenes from the streets of Bangkok, a gasoline truck on fire, young men setting fire to tires, pick-up trucks bringing in whole truckloads of tires, men throwing Molotow cocktails at soldiers ....

Are these still the "Red Shirts", the poor, underprivileged farmers from Isaan, the honest grassroot people coming to Bangkok to demonstrate for more Democracy and against double standars?

Hardly. There are professional thugs and hooligans of the worst kind who have no idea of the consequences of their senseless violence. They certainly won't listen to any voice of reason, any offer of talk or compromise. The only language they understand is force, power, handcuffs and a prison cell, for 10 years.

The Red Shirt leaders have long totally lost control and the Government would be well advised to stop any attempt to peacefully end this war.

Go get them and put them away, for as long as possible.

one can't help but ponder the thought that one group is going to suffer a lot of casualties, inevitably. UN, Thai soldiers, or Thai military. Takin out Thaksin would cause a lot of insurgent strikes upcountry undoubtedly. I say UN, cause you know if the army doesn't solve it, embassies closing and staff evacuating draws some serious attention. hope they don't come. I know a particular weasel trying to do that, not to stop violence, but to get himself back into the ring to take another swing here. (he is the cause of enough deaths already)

On Reuters news report, interviews with some women and men in the Red camp show them saying they're grassroot people and willing to die with their brothers and sisters. (go to the homepage, thailand: videos) I know they're funny about links on here.

[Ulysses G.]

The Red Shirt leaders have long totally lost control and the Government would be well advised to stop any attempt to peacefully end this war.

They can not go in and slaughter the elderly, women and children and they all seem unwilling to leave. This whole thing is a big mess. The PM has good intentions, but he is in a no-win situation.