Thaksin's Vendetta Is Wrecking The Country

[animatic]

You should check Thai history too. There was no elected PM when the coup occurred.

And maybe read up a bit on what happened before the government had to issue the SOE.

OH, I do know Thai history. I can name at least three books I have read about it. I can name one book that discusses Corruption and Democracy in Thailand written by a Thai expert (educated in the UK). Can you name one?

When the PAD occupied the airports and basically shut down Thailand, they were permitted to assemble, they were permitted to protest, and they were not murdered.

When the UDD protested, their rights were violated and they were murdered in the streets.

When the PAD broke the law, no one was detained.

When the UDD broke the law, everyone was arrested. Some were murdered.

This struggle will continue as it has been for many years because Thai people do not have basic human rights. The rural poor are treated a bit like slaves, which if you study Thai history you will know that slavery was only abolished around 105 years ago. Of course, you knew that already

So, please explain the grenades lobbed onto the PAD camp at Government house. Several deaths then.

It continued at the airport too. Oh yes, red supporters said it was the PAD doing it themselves for sympathy.

So those attacking the army outside of the Rajprasong encampment are peaceful protestors...

Those peaceful guys lighting fires and throwing grenades (again) at soldiers OUTSIDE the encampment

If you are rioting, beating soldiers, and causing destruction over a wide scale in ther streets,

you can expect harsh measures to stop you.

If you declare war on the country, as Saed Deang did, and act on it,

you can expect harsh measures against you.

Edited May 18, 2010 by animatic

[agord]

Absolute rubbish. The US tried using the national guard in the 70s to quell unrest. The result was predictable. Look it up.

Rubbish???! Please inform me as to how many people were killed in the much more recent (not not something that happened 40 years ago) Rodney King riots in L.A.? But again, you're splitting hairs here to save face (are you Thai?), obviously missing the point. Aggression is met with aggression and NO major government will put up with it.

The LA RIOTS (where there was no leadership and no organization and existed only as a means to destroy and create chaos) had many fatalities... none of which were at the hands of the military or special forces snipers. You win. It's exactly the same in Thailand!

Oh yes, you conveniently forgot to mention the insignificant fact (to you perhaps) that they were protesting the ruling of the government in the case. But no, there are no similarities...

I was working in LA during that time and looks pretty much the same to me with thugs pulling people from their cars and beating them, taking shots at police, fire fighters, medics. The only people they couldnt mess with were the armed Korean business owners who protected thier property well standing on their roofs firing on the rioters as they tried to loot their stores. Police, Natl. guard did the same thing as Thai military - contained the situation and let them self distruct only they did this right away instead of two months later.

[brahmburgers]

Do people still actually believe that this is only about Thaksin?

I will be amazed if people still do not see the bigger picture here.

So you're so wise, why not enlighten us on the 'bigger picture.'

Granted, there are fixed social strata in Thailand. I know two nursing students who went and did 10 months of intern service at a major Bkk hospital, and the hospital wouldn't even provide them with beds or rooms to sleep in (they slept on floor in janitor's closet), and no more than one spartan meal per 12 hour day. I know another girl who was required to be on-call all her waking hours, 7 days a week, for a Chinese owned restaurant, and they paid her 300 baht/week, the entire amount deducted for meals and a cot to sleep on. The list goes on for miles. Much more disadvantaged in Thailand are several hundred thousand hill tribers, who were born here, but can't get ID cards, so can't even travel from one town to another and can't legally work outside their muddy villages. Do Reds ever mention them? No.

Nearly all Reds have TV's, motorbikes, mobile phones, fridges, ok houses on paved roads with electricity. Some of the biggest culprits are pu yai ban (headmen) who extort money, and who take money from TRT and its incarnations, to guarantee the vote for Thaksin's people - whether legally or illegally.

[chadintheusa]

I'm sure Thaksin is laughing his ass off, he's got revenge agains the country that took his fortune away.

[rogerdee123]

I'm sure Thaksin is laughing his ass off, he's got revenge agains the country that took his fortune away.

>>>>> ThaivsaNews: Tourism Minister says political unrest has dropped tourist arrivals by 50%. Number of incoming passengers at Suvarnabhumi down from 30,000 to 20,000 per day.

Someone should tell the Minister of Tourism that a drop from 30k > 20k is actually a drop of 'only' 33.3%.

[agord]

Most of you farangs come from western democracies... and most of you would support one political party over another. If you think the best solution to political impasse and or civil disobedience is to shoot those who disagree with you, then you should move to a place that supports that kind of thing (domestically) like Burma. The violence started when the army showed up... PERIOD. The rest of these arguments are pure political rhetoric, hearsay, and paranoia. Of course, if this continues, maybe you folks ARE in the right place.

MOST foreigners who come from western democracies would wait until an election was due to cast a vote for the party/person we preferred, not hold a capital city hostage behind a wall of woman and children.

Whether I preferred the party in power or not I would still expect that party to protect me and mine from a gang of lawless thugs who have chosen to operate outside the bounds of democracy in order achieve their/their paymatsers goals by all means necessary. As it stands in Bangkok the Police are useless, with pictures of them wearing red scarves in support of the hostage takers, there is no other alternative than sending in the military in order to reclaim the city.

seconded and the violence started way before the military showed up.

[rametindallas]

You left out one small detail re: US protestor's rights. They have to protest legally. That means they are restricted where they can protest. They cannot 'set up camp' in any downtown area that would affect businesses without a permit and that would be very limited so as not to disrupt the free flow of commerce. I dare you to name a protest which took place anywhere in the US that was even remotely similar to the one at Ratchaprasong. As long as the BKK protestors stayed at Pan Fa Bridge, the govt. went out of it's way to accomodate them. They could have protested there forever and a day but they wanted trouble and started moving to non permissable areas via Kok Wua and the govt. drew the line. That still wasn't enough reaction for the Reds, who want civil war, and they shut down ome of the best money-making areas in Bangkok. When has anything like that been allowed anywhere in the world? You have painted a totally false picture of the Red's behavior. That makes you a propagandist.

OH, don't resort to name calling...... it makes you look small and uneducated, LOL.

If protesters assembled in Times Square in NYC, they would not be shot and murdered, I assure you.

You are missing the basic fact that in the US, citizens have basic rights. They cannot be tossed in jail for 15 years for "insulting" anyone. Also, they are free to print, publish and broadcast. Their TV stations are not shut down at will.

In Thailand, the government simply declares whatever they don't want "illegal" and imposed some "emergency decree" which basically gives them the authority to murder anyone they wish and violate their rights.

Why was this not issued against the PAD when they occupied the airports?

It is complete foolishness to rail against the UDD for what they did in Rajaprasong and at the same time support the PAD and what they did at the airport.

Propaganda? Don't be silly. I am not the Thai government, or a UDD or PAD supporter, or a rich elite who is worried about my Mercedes Benz getting damaged.

1. I promise you that you will not be allowed a protest in Times Square more than the time it take the police to remove you.

2. I will not address you point as it is a violation of forum rules (a red-shirt thing to do) except I defy you to tell me who spent 15 years in jail.

3. If you don't like the laws of Thailand then don't go to Thailand though you will be hard-pressed to find a civilized country that doesn't have S.O.E. and Marshall laws.

4. What was or was not applied to the PAD was up to the Taksin puppet governments so you'll have to ask them why. Personally, I think Somchai should have fired any officer who refused to remove that yellow hoard.

5. Since you responded directly to my post, it looks like you are putting words in my mouth to talk about "rail against the UDD" as i did no such thing. And you are you are trying to 'frame' me as a yellow supporter or apologist which I most vociferously deny.

6. You don't have to work for any govt. to be a propagandist nor do you have to be a rich elite who drives a Mercedes Benz but you might work for a Mercedes Benz driving. elitist, citizen of Montenegro as a professional propagandist. I hope you got your pay 'up front'.

Propagandist

1. a person involved in producing or spreading propaganda. 2. a member or agent of a propaganda.

[clockworkorange]

Thaksin's vendetta? How simplistic - it's as if removal of Thaksin would make any difference to this mess, and return Thailand to a state of Utopia. It won't, because this problem extends far beyond Thaksin and Abhsit's blinkered clique.

There are two ingredients to civil unrest - public dissatisfaction and a personality to act as the catalyst, or lightning rod that channels the dissatisfaction into action. Thaksin was the catalyst this time around, but unless something is done to address the public dissatisfaction the instability that caused it will remain.

This is a Thailand problem, not a Thaksin problem. When he goes, another opportunistic politician will take his place and the unrest will continue unless something is done to address the root cause.

[sras]

.... seconded and the violence started way before the military showed up.

Yes, the violence started after the government shut down the PTV station (Red Shirts TV station) and sent in police who then murdered Thai citizens (Red Shirts).

Of course the violence started after Red Shirts were murdered and their basic rights of freedom of speech were violated.

First their rights were violated by the government, then the police (ordered to kill by the government) and then the military (ordered to kill by the government).

Everyone knows that the government is afraid to hold elections because the UDD and Red Shirts will regain power. This is why there are no elections. What kind of democracy is this?

It is called "democracy as long as the winner is not who we don't want to win!"

[Tony121]

Just saw Thaksins PR man on al jazeera very interesting looks like the foreign press are seeing what the red movement is all about.

[sras]

3. If you don't like the laws of Thailand then don't go to Thailand though you will be hard-pressed to find a civilized country that doesn't have S.O.E. and Marshall laws.

Name 1 "modern civilized democracy" where the government can remove all the rights of the citizen to assemble and cut off their right to speak and publish and then shoots them in the streets because they are in the streets.

I think you cannot name one.

The countries that come to mind are China and Burma and maybe Iran, Iraq, etc.

Modern democratic countries to not steal elections, prop up leaders and murder the opponents. It certainly does not happen in the US.

I suggest you read history from your seat in Dallas, LOL.

Name the last time military law was evoked in the US in the capital.... I think the answer is NEVER.

[Steely Dan]

Thaksin is obviously out for revenge, black Songkran gave clear warning of what was to come. I have been amazed at the lack of proactive action by the government in dealing with a massive existential threat. Case in point, why weren't all Thaksin's assets and those connected to him frozen as soon as trouble started? I can't answer this, but now many have been frozen, but not before ex-wife Potjammer instructed 1.4 billion baht to be taken out in cash by proxy; I wonder how many thieving, murdering sociopathic retards this money can buy.

Perhaps the lack of proactivity in shutting off the lifeblood of the reds is so Thaksin gives enough evidence with which he can be hanged with. I'd like to think the notes withdrawn by his wife had their serial numbers recorded so if they found their way into red shirt hands the link is proven, not to mention the millions red leaders were paid, all with money stolen from the Thai people.

The trouble is you could present such evidence to redshirt supporters and they would not care, however it might remedy the incompetently biased reports coming from CNN and the BBC.

P.S Thaksin a frequent guest of Dubai, BBC have a lucrative arab language channel which also explains their consistent pro-arab bias.

[andrewbkk]

I fail to understand why the Thai government have not done everything possible to have an international arrest warrant put out by Interpol for the arrest of Thaksin and the red leaders who have recently fled Thailand. Can anyone help me out here? Why has this not been done? Is it a complex legal procedure?

It is nice to see someone actually using his brains on TV. Let's see what kind of replies he gets..

(I don't have a sound theory for that, but would give my two satangs worth later on)

Unfortunately he got 1 negative reply already by the most irritating form of expat - the Mr. I know more about Thailand than all of you expat

You can't even ask a basic question on here without one of these clownshoes chipping in about how much of an expert they are on Thai society, culture, you name it they are the foremost authority on all things Thai. sorry off topic and I thought the OP asked a fair question and didn't deserve to be made to feel stupid for doing so.

That's an excellent post.

I too have a low opinion of these silly little pseuds who attempt to portray themselves as intelligent, knowledgeable and important by coming out with comments such as "well actually you're all wrong -- you see, all of you are failing to look at the bigger picture".

It's pathetic. It really is.

[sras]

Thaksin's vendetta? How simplistic - it's as if removal of Thaksin would make any difference to this mess, and return Thailand to a state of Utopia. It won't, because this problem extends far beyond Thaksin and Abhsit's blinkered clique.

There are two ingredients to civil unrest - public dissatisfaction and a personality to act as the catalyst, or lightning rod that channels the dissatisfaction into action. Thaksin was the catalyst this time around, but unless something is done to address the public dissatisfaction the instability that caused it will remain.

This is a Thailand problem, not a Thaksin problem. When he goes, another opportunistic politician will take his place and the unrest will continue unless something is done to address the root cause.

Exactly.

For those who care about Thai history....

Slavery was abolished in Thailand only around 100 years ago. The Thai elite enslaved their own people for hundreds of years.

The rural poor in Thailand still live much like slaves, except maybe worse in some cases. They don't drive Mercedes Benz and they don't by goods at Siam Paragon. However, they are permitted to wash the master's Mercedes and clean the floors in Siam Paragon.

They certainly can't protest there without being murdered in the streets.

[animatic]

The Red Tshirts are the ones who declared War on this government. In war, all enemy are equal targets. There is no sorting out the "good" tshirts from the "bad" tshirts. Those who choose to stay there know full well the possible consequences. Their leaders know full well what they're sending their zombie fool followers into. They are the ones to be held responsible.

And I say it again, why should this government react any differently than that of, let's say, the USA, considered by many to be the most successful democratic government on earth. Any group pulling the sh*t that this brainwashed mob has gotten away with over there would have been met with the firepower of the law looooong ago. And I can tell you, the head count would be MUCH higher.

Absolute rubbish. The US tried using the national guard in the 70s to quell unrest. The result was predictable. Look it up.

Rubbish???! Please inform me as to how many people were killed in the much more recent (not not something that happened 40 years ago) Rodney King riots in L.A.? But again, you're splitting hairs here to save face (are you Thai?), obviously missing the point. Aggression is met with aggression and NO major government will put up with it.

The LA RIOTS (where there was no leadership and no organization and existed only as a means to destroy and create chaos) had many fatalities... none of which were at the hands of the military or special forces snipers. You win. It's exactly the same in Thailand!

In LA there were instigators and they did time for it.

There were also race riots before that.

And Yankle Rosenbaum murder riots in NYC I was caught in that inadvertantly.

every year there is some use of force deemed by partisans as too much in NYC.

Lets not forget a close parallel to Redland, Waco and the Branch Davidians.

It was not intended to touch off a firestorm because know one expected

all the incendiaries to be stocked in the compound.

Which may also explain the Army's reticence to just charge in yesterday.

WHo knows what nasty surprises and unexpected stupidities await them in there.

Assorted nut case run apocalyptic Militias are running amok in the mid west too,

and are being taken down with force when needed, THIS YEAR.

Edited May 18, 2010 by animatic

[dukkha]

I have been seeing this coming a LONG time.

It was never

'will Thaksin go for revenge big time?'

but was always

'WHEN will Thaksin go for broke with revenge or a power grab big time.'

Ever since his badly done attempt to keep his Temp PM chair in mid 2006,

with a ginned up S.O.E. or Martial Law stemming from that very badly done

'attempted assassination' I realized the guy has no limits or scruples.

I wasn't surprised he was removed from the scene, and only a little at the soft reaction to it,

but that always brought the worry about how and when he would seek to avenge his lost face.

When people post it's not about Thaksin, I can only surmise:

a ) they are on his payroll, spreading the PR message.

Thailand/Logic....oxymoronic!

b ) they really don't understand the situation well.

c ) they are so lost in their ideological world that LOGIC and observation

are swamped out by philosophical desire.

He did build a huge patronage network in the old school style over 20 years or so,

and then used it for more modern style rapacious greed. But also developed the

untapped potential of Issan, by using a modern business organizational model

coupled with old school Communist cadre indoctrination techniques.

Machiavelli would be proud; well actually Ceaser Borgia, whom Machiavelli was commenting on.

Thaksin took policy corruption to levels never seen, even in Thailand.

And then a step too far with Temasek.

Money = Power = Face and this all feeds a severely damaged ego.

His whole life was nouveau-riche striving for Hi So acceptance. Power

with money was the sole route there... problem was he completely forgot

that "having class" is more important than being accepted in first class.

He married up, way up, and was always pushed to fit into a world that

he was not prepared to enter, and that rejected him no matter how much cash he had.

After his return from self imposed exile, but before the 2nd self imposed exile,

he went to Anupong's mother's funeral, uninvited, and faced off with Prem and Anupong.

The pictures made clear they though he was in exceedingly poor taste to go there.

and made no efforts to hide this, a very un-thai action, but Thaksin did a very un-thai act

to try and reinstall himself at 'Prems level' at Anupong's time of mourning.

To this day Prem has pictures of the incident on his website... quite tellingly.

So rather than the public forgiveness he sought Thaksin got dissed big time.

Som nom na. Except this fed kerosene onto Thaksin's inflamed damaged ego.

Most people deal with others as if they are typically rational, not sometimes or often

slightly ting tong. Mental stability is not solely judged whether you are incoherent when speaking.

This guy is damaged goods, and shows instability under stress, letting him regain control

of the country through proxies is a non-starter, no matter what it takes to get that dirty job done.

[rametindallas]

I fail to understand why the Thai government have not done everything possible to have an international arrest warrant put out by Interpol for the arrest of Thaksin and the red leaders who have recently fled Thailand. Can anyone help me out here? Why has this not been done? Is it a complex legal procedure?

It's quite simple - YOU don't understand how Thai society functions!

That avoidance of conflict, to do no harm, harmony, understanding and universal love

are the very core of Buddhist teaching and widespread practice, woven deeply into the

social fabric of this society!

They will keep the step, by step approach, so far the government has done rather well

to avoid massive bloodshed!

ahhhh thats the ultimate response.... your a farang... you dont know how Thai society works...

I'm sorry, did I miss something. Can you tell me how Thai society is working now. Not very well from my computer screen. Maybe you can enlighten this 'stupid farang'.

[tonywebster]

It's amazing how so many 'educated' farangs are bent on blaming all that ails Thailand on an exiled ex-prime minister. Nobody is responsible for the army shooting civilians in Bangkok except the government. Illegal occupation of private and/or public property is not a good reason to shoot people. Neither is looting. The red shirt leaders may be selfish jerks dancing to Thaksin's tune, but it's NOT AN EXCUSE for the government to SHOOT PEOPLE. The government lies on the news everyday. So do the red shirts, but who should be the higher moral authority here? Most of you farangs come from western democracies... and most of you would support one political party over another. If you think the best solution to political impasse and or civil disobedience is to shoot those who disagree with you, then you should move to a place that supports that kind of thing (domestically) like Burma. The violence started when the army showed up... PERIOD. The rest of these arguments are pure political rhetoric, hearsay, and paranoia. Of course, if this continues, maybe you folks ARE in the right place.

The red shirts lobbing grenades, not a reason to shoot people? Pulling army out of a truck and mob beating them, not a reason to shoot?

If this were "peaceful disobedience" I'd agree with you, but this has been far from that.

The government tried and tried, set a reconciliatory path with no commitment from the reds. Of course it's time to roll. Wake up! Enough is enough and I think you will find most Thais agree (not just "moral farangs).

if the person lobbing the grenade was shot then I agree, if the person doing the shooting was shot then I agree, however shooting an unarmed man for setting up a barricade is too far. I watched the army this morning on TV showing footage they had, only 3 protesters on this footage had firearms (I know there are probably more), however I want them to show me footage showing the dead with firearms, or grenades, or petrol bombs so I can be sure these people were an immediate threat.

The Red Tshirts are the ones who declared War on this government. In war, all enemy are equal targets. There is no sorting out the "good" tshirts from the "bad" tshirts. Those who choose to stay there know full well the possible consequences. Their leaders know full well what they're sending their zombie fool followers into. They are the ones to be held responsible.

And I say it again, why should this government react any differently than that of, let's say, the USA, considered by many to be the most successful democratic government on earth. Any group pulling the sh*t that this brainwashed mob has gotten away with over there would have been met with the firepower of the law looooong ago. And I can tell you, the head count would be MUCH higher.

absolut garbage, so if a resident in that area happens to be outside, maybe getting water or fresh air it is ok for the army to blow a hole in his head, just because he is in that area, I have read some garbage in my time but you really open up a fresh bin, and as for the USA being considered the most successful democratic country, who is that by, the americans, because many others see it for what it is, especially since the debacle over bush in florida, and then you clowns even voted him in for a second term

[animatic]

I fail to understand why the Thai government have not done everything possible to have an international arrest warrant put out by Interpol for the arrest of Thaksin and the red leaders who have recently fled Thailand. Can anyone help me out here? Why has this not been done? Is it a complex legal procedure?

It's quite simple - YOU don't understand how Thai society functions!

That avoidance of conflict, to do no harm, harmony, understanding and universal love

are the very core of Buddhist teaching and widespread practice, woven deeply into the

social fabric of this society!

They will keep the step, by step approach, so far the government has done rather well

to avoid massive bloodshed!

ahhhh thats the ultimate response.... your a farang... you dont know how Thai society works...

Knowing him, I know he understands better than most farangs around.

Edited May 18, 2010 by animatic

[rametindallas]

3. If you don't like the laws of Thailand then don't go to Thailand though you will be hard-pressed to find a civilized country that doesn't have S.O.E. and Marshall laws.

Name 1 "modern civilized democracy" where the government can remove all the rights of the citizen to assemble and cut off their right to speak and publish and then shoots them in the streets because they are in the streets.

I think you cannot name one.

The countries that come to mind are China and Burma and maybe Iran, Iraq, etc.

Modern democratic countries to not steal elections, prop up leaders and murder the opponents. It certainly does not happen in the US.

I suggest you read history from your seat in Dallas, LOL.

Name the last time military law was evoked in the US in the capital.... I think the answer is NEVER.

In the US, marshall law and curfews were imposed in a number of cities many times during the 'race' riots of the late 60's. Philadelphia, Watts, Birmingham... shall I go on. Just because you are ignorant of US history doesn't mean it didn't happen. You have a computer and have access to Google and yet you prefer to parade you lack of knowledge of US history in front of this forum.

BTW I graduated university with a degree in history and anything I don't know, I'm not too lazy to look it up on the www. lol

[Jingthing]

Right Vindie... Try pulling any of the crap these zombies have in any other major city in the world and see how quickly the respective governments would break out the big guns. The problem with Thailand is they waited too long. This shi*t would have been mopped up in 72 hours in the USA, and the death toll would have been directly related to how many idiots chose to stick around after the authorities had given the order to disburse or face the consequences.

I challenge you to name one lawful event in US history where protesters were murdered in the streets. There are none.

Kent State

Chicago Republican Convention

LA Riots

Harlem race riots

Stone wall Inn riots.

The reds occupation of Bangkok is most certainly NOT lawful. However there are definitely cases in US history of authorities shooting at Americans. For example,

http://history1800s.about.com/od/organized...haymarket01.htm

[sras]

In the US, marshall law and curfews were imposed in a number of cities many times during the 'race' riots of the late 60's. Philadelphia, Watts, Birmingham... shall I go on. Just because you are ignorant of US history doesn't mean it didn't happen. You have a computer and have access to Google and yet you prefer to parade you lack of knowledge of US history in front of this forum.

This is not the 60s... and "race riots" are considered to be the darkest days of US history. Do you recall all the discrimination against African Americans?

I am not ignorant of US history; but you are obviously someone who believes in oppression and violence.

All you have done, in your goofy reply, bring up military law and race riots, is to simply confirm what the Thai government is doing is wrong. Because everyone knows that violence in the US was mistake, as was racial discrimination, etc.

Do you actually understand what the underlying social issues are in Thailand? Do you actually know why a father and mother from the rural provinces send their children to work as sex slaves in other provinces? Do you know the degree of poverty in Thailand? Do you understand how very rich many people are here and how very poor others are, and how the poor have almost no hope?

I think you would prefer the government simply murder the "poor animals" since you obviously condone murder against people who protest for social justice.

[animatic]

3. If you don't like the laws of Thailand then don't go to Thailand though you will be hard-pressed to find a civilized country that doesn't have S.O.E. and Marshall laws.

Name 1 "modern civilized democracy" where the government can remove all the rights of the citizen to assemble and cut off their right to speak and publish and then shoots them in the streets because they are in the streets.

I think you cannot name one.

The countries that come to mind are China and Burma and maybe Iran, Iraq, etc.

Modern democratic countries to not steal elections, prop up leaders and murder the opponents. It certainly does not happen in the US.

I suggest you read history from your seat in Dallas, LOL.

Name the last time military law was evoked in the US in the capital.... I think the answer is NEVER.

Most nations can remove the rights to public protest if it adversely affects innocents by the protesters actions.

Also most all places require PERMITS to protest.

Reds are in violation of dozens of ordences

if they were in dozens of civilized countries.

Edited May 18, 2010 by animatic

[agord]

You left out one small detail re: US protestor's rights. They have to protest legally. That means they are restricted where they can protest. They cannot 'set up camp' in any downtown area that would affect businesses without a permit and that would be very limited so as not to disrupt the free flow of commerce. I dare you to name a protest which took place anywhere in the US that was even remotely similar to the one at Ratchaprasong. As long as the BKK protestors stayed at Pan Fa Bridge, the govt. went out of it's way to accomodate them. They could have protested there forever and a day but they wanted trouble and started moving to non permissable areas via Kok Wua and the govt. drew the line. That still wasn't enough reaction for the Reds, who want civil war, and they shut down ome of the best money-making areas in Bangkok. When has anything like that been allowed anywhere in the world? You have painted a totally false picture of the Red's behavior. That makes you a propagandist.

OH, don't resort to name calling...... it makes you look small and uneducated, LOL.

If protesters assembled in Times Square in NYC, they would not be shot and murdered, I assure you.

You are missing the basic fact that in the US, citizens have basic rights. They cannot be tossed in jail for 15 years for "insulting" anyone. Also, they are free to print, publish and broadcast. Their TV stations are not shut down at will.

In Thailand, the government simply declares whatever they don't want "illegal" and imposed some "emergency decree" which basically gives them the authority to murder anyone they wish and violate their rights.

Why was this not issued against the PAD when they occupied the airports?

It is complete foolishness to rail against the UDD for what they did in Rajaprasong and at the same time support the PAD and what they did at the airport.

Propaganda? Don't be silly. I am not the Thai government, or a UDD or PAD supporter, or a rich elite who is worried about my Mercedes Benz getting damaged.

1. I promise you that you will not be allowed a protest in Times Square more than the time it take the police to remove you.

2. I will not address you point as it is a violation of forum rules (a red-shirt thing to do) except I defy you to tell me who spent 15 years in jail.

3. If you don't like the laws of Thailand then don't go to Thailand though you will be hard-pressed to find a civilized country that doesn't have S.O.E. and Marshall laws.

4. What was or was not applied to the PAD was up to the Taksin puppet governments so you'll have to ask them why. Personally, I think Somchai should have fired any officer who refused to remove that yellow hoard.

5. Since you responded directly to my post, it looks like you are putting words in my mouth to talk about "rail against the UDD" as i did no such thing. And you are you are trying to 'frame' me as a yellow supporter or apologist which I most vociferously deny.

6. You don't have to work for any govt. to be a propagandist nor do you have to be a rich elite who drives a Mercedes Benz but you might work for a Mercedes Benz driving. elitist, citizen of Montenegro as a professional propagandist. I hope you got your pay 'up front'.

Propagandist

1. a person involved in producing or spreading propaganda. 2. a member or agent of a propaganda.

and if you were in Times Square seting up tires and molotov cocktails you would be met with lethal force by the citizens long before the first cop showed up on the scene and if you were still alive when they got there you would most likey get a second helping on the way to the station.

[rametindallas]

I challenge you to name one lawful event in US history where protesters were murdered in the streets. There are none.

Kent State

Chicago Republican Convention

LA Riots

Harlem race riots

Stone wall Inn riots.

The reds occupation of Bangkok is most certainly NOT lawful. However there are definitely cases in US history of authorities shooting at Americans. For example,

http://history1800s.about.com/od/organized...haymarket01.htm

Another example from Wikipedia referring to the International Workers of the World and their tactics: The IWW first attracted attention in Goldfield, Nevada in 1906 and during the Pressed Steel Car Strike of 1909^[6] at McKees Rocks, Pennsylvania. Further fame was gained later that year, when they took their stand on free speech. The town of Spokane, Washington had outlawed street meetings, and arrested Elizabeth Gurley Flynn,^[7] a Wobbly organizer, for breaking this ordinance. The response was simple but effective: when a fellow member was arrested for speaking, large numbers of people descended on the location and invited the authorities to arrest all of them, until it became too expensive for the town. In Spokane, over 500 people went to jail and four people died. The tactic of fighting for free speech to popularize the cause and preserve the right to organize openly was used effectively in Fresno, Aberdeen, and other locations. In San Diego, although there was no particular organizing campaign at stake, vigilantes supported by local officials and powerful businessmen mounted a particularly brutal counter-offensive.

[warfie]

Right Vindie... Try pulling any of the crap these zombies have in any other major city in the world and see how quickly the respective governments would break out the big guns. The problem with Thailand is they waited too long. This shi*t would have been mopped up in 72 hours in the USA, and the death toll would have been directly related to how many idiots chose to stick around after the authorities had given the order to disburse or face the consequences.

Hi Yeeoww.....

Your statement about the US is a complete fabrication.

You cannot name one respected instance in US history where protester's who were peacefully assembled were subject to being shot at and murdered by the US government. Even in the most emotional protests against the US war in Vietnam, when 100s of thousands came to Washington DC and camped out on the mall, there was virtually no violence.

The problem is Thailand is just the opposite. The people cannot assemble peacefully without being murdered. They cannot voice their opinion without their TV stations being shut down. They cannot speak out against social injustice without fear of arrest. They cannot even peacefully assemble on public fields without fear of arrest.

Anyone who says the US would "crack down" on something like this is completely wrong. In the US, citizens have a birth right to assemble peacefully. They can have their own TV stations, new papers, web sites, full freedom to assemble and to protest and to express themselves. In Thailand, the citizens to not have these basic rights, especially the rural poor.

When read these threads and post, I am truly amazed at misinformation and lies posted here. In the US, what is happening in Thailand would never happen because in the US, when you cast your vote at the polls, the military does not kick out the winner just because the elite do not agree with the results. In the US, there is a working form of democracy and the bulk of the power is with the people. Not in Thailand. The power is in guns and murder of people who protest. You can easily witness this is the streets of Bangkok today.

You left out one small detail re: US protestor's rights. They have to protest legally. That means they are restricted where they can protest. They cannot 'set up camp' in any downtown area that would affect businesses without a permit and that would be very limited so as not to disrupt the free flow of commerce. I dare you to name a protest which took place anywhere in the US that was even remotely similar to the one at Ratchaprasong. As long as the BKK protestors stayed at Pan Fa Bridge, the govt. went out of it's way to accomodate them. They could have protested there forever and a day but they wanted trouble and started moving to non permissable areas via Kok Wua and the govt. drew the line. That still wasn't enough reaction for the Reds, who want civil war, and they shut down ome of the best money-making areas in Bangkok. When has anything like that been allowed anywhere in the world? You have painted a totally false picture of the Red's behavior. That makes you a propagandist.

You are absolutely right. The reds did move and demonstrate illegally on public and private property. They absolutely deserve to be shot on site. What other options are there? We should also extend powers to the police to shoot shoplifters, grifters, bar girls, people who don't wear helmets, gamblers (that's illegal in Thailand, too), and there should be special forces squads outside every bar for the bust-ups that follow closing. Kill 'em all because they're breaking the law. Of course, murderers should still get due process... arrest them, process them, and sentence them... but folks that sit in the street, sing silly songs, and make a lot of noise need to be dealt with on a whole different level. Human rights suck! Power to the military and the governments who use them to 'ensure public safety'!

can you say "war on drugs"?

[sras]

The reds occupation of Bangkok is most certainly NOT lawful. However there are definitely cases in US history of authorities shooting at Americans. For example,

http://history1800s.about.com/od/organized...haymarket01.htm

Don't you see the irony in naming the darkest, saddest days of US history as justification for murder in Bangkok?

If you want to argue that the the Reds "occupation" of Bangkok is "not legal" and therefore they deserve to be murdered in the streets, then why not say the same for all the other "not legal" activities in Thailand?????

Edited May 18, 2010 by silkroadasia

[Jingthing]

The reds occupation of Bangkok is most certainly NOT lawful. However there are definitely cases in US history of authorities shooting at Americans. For example,

http://history1800s.about.com/od/organized...haymarket01.htm

Don't you see the irony in naming the darkest, saddest days of US history as justification for murder in Bangkok?

If you want to argue that the the Reds "occupation" of Bangkok is "not legal" and therefore they deserve to be murdered in the streets, then why not say the same for all the other "not legal" activities in Thailand?????

Back off! I never said deserved to be murdered. You are now on ignore, I don't suffer people like you. Goodbye.

Edited May 18, 2010 by Jingthing

[DeadPuppy]

Thaksin's vendetta? How simplistic - it's as if removal of Thaksin would make any difference to this mess, and return Thailand to a state of Utopia. It won't, because this problem extends far beyond Thaksin and Abhsit's blinkered clique.

There are two ingredients to civil unrest - public dissatisfaction and a personality to act as the catalyst, or lightning rod that channels the dissatisfaction into action. Thaksin was the catalyst this time around, but unless something is done to address the public dissatisfaction the instability that caused it will remain.

This is a Thailand problem, not a Thaksin problem. When he goes, another opportunistic politician will take his place and the unrest will continue unless something is done to address the root cause.

"unless something is done to address the root cause."

I can agree with that, but if amnesty is granted in this case it will set the precedent for the next group of people to storm the capital and expect to get away with it. I see vigorous prosecution as the only way to get to the root cause, this includes the Yellow airport mob as well.

Edited May 18, 2010 by DeadPuppy

[grumpyoldman]

You left out one small detail re: US protestor's rights. They have to protest legally. That means they are restricted where they can protest. They cannot 'set up camp' in any downtown area that would affect businesses without a permit and that would be very limited so as not to disrupt the free flow of commerce. I dare you to name a protest which took place anywhere in the US that was even remotely similar to the one at Ratchaprasong. As long as the BKK protestors stayed at Pan Fa Bridge, the govt. went out of it's way to accomodate them. They could have protested there forever and a day but they wanted trouble and started moving to non permissable areas via Kok Wua and the govt. drew the line. That still wasn't enough reaction for the Reds, who want civil war, and they shut down ome of the best money-making areas in Bangkok. When has anything like that been allowed anywhere in the world? You have painted a totally false picture of the Red's behavior. That makes you a propagandist.

OH, don't resort to name calling...... it makes you look small and uneducated, LOL.

If protesters assembled in Times Square in NYC, they would not be shot and murdered, I assure you.

You are missing the basic fact that in the US, citizens have basic rights. They cannot be tossed in jail for 15 years for "insulting" anyone. Also, they are free to print, publish and broadcast. Their TV stations are not shut down at will.

In Thailand, the government simply declares whatever they don't want "illegal" and imposed some "emergency decree" which basically gives them the authority to murder anyone they wish and violate their rights.

Why was this not issued against the PAD when they occupied the airports?

It is complete foolishness to rail against the UDD for what they did in Rajaprasong and at the same time support the PAD and what they did at the airport.

Propaganda? Don't be silly. I am not the Thai government, or a UDD or PAD supporter, or a rich elite who is worried about my Mercedes Benz getting damaged.

1. I promise you that you will not be allowed a protest in Times Square more than the time it take the police to remove you.

2. I will not address you point as it is a violation of forum rules (a red-shirt thing to do) except I defy you to tell me who spent 15 years in jail.

3. If you don't like the laws of Thailand then don't go to Thailand though you will be hard-pressed to find a civilized country that doesn't have S.O.E. and Marshall laws.

4. What was or was not applied to the PAD was up to the Taksin puppet governments so you'll have to ask them why. Personally, I think Somchai should have fired any officer who refused to remove that yellow hoard.

5. Since you responded directly to my post, it looks like you are putting words in my mouth to talk about "rail against the UDD" as i did no such thing. And you are you are trying to 'frame' me as a yellow supporter or apologist which I most vociferously deny.

6. You don't have to work for any govt. to be a propagandist nor do you have to be a rich elite who drives a Mercedes Benz but you might work for a Mercedes Benz driving. elitist, citizen of Montenegro as a professional propagandist. I hope you got your pay 'up front'.

Propagandist

1. a person involved in producing or spreading propaganda. 2. a member or agent of a propaganda.

Alright! Here, here!