Thai Troops Violate Law In Bangkok Action: Amnesty

[surangw]

I would say Amnesty International is ( its top officials) are a pack of lawyers that found a why to bilk a bunch of bleeding hearts out of donations to live the fat life.

they ( top officials) could give a crap about anyone but themselves, they just need to stir things up every chance they get to keep the money flowing in.

[jcbangkok]

It may not be a machine gun or automatic weapons but is certainly appears to be a rifle that the guy is firing randomly under the cover of the fire crackers. If true, then it is clear the army is likely not the ones who pulled the trigger on many reds, reporters or medics ... one also has to wonder who has gained and who has not from reporters and medical workers being shot.

ITS A BROOM HANDLE! and you like bush thought it was a weapon of mass destruction.

you rank amateur!

you and your pathetic bloodthirsty gang who call for the spilling of thai blood have been caught with your pants down spreading falsehoods yet again.

So, JC, now that the evidence is on the table are you finally prepared to admit that its the army who are killing innocents, in addition to Reds?

[earthpig]

for christ's sake would people please begin reading and understanding? it doesn't matter whether or not anyone 'innocent' has been killed. the thai army is shooting live rounds in areas where there are its own unarmed citizens. this is a massive breach of UN human rights laws.

how the hel_l are people not getting this? it's not complicated.

YOUR comprehension needs a changeup

YOU are conveniently ignoring that it "..is a massive breach of UN human rights laws. .."

for live grenades and rockets to be used by the Red Shirts ..as proved by numerous videos ..isn't it ?

Piss off

RIGHT ON!

Firing broom handles is a heinous crime against humanity. sordid Red terrorists!

[phosphorescent]

If Thaksin was still in charge, any protest of this type would have ended a long time ago. The only problem would be that hundreds, if not thousands of 'INNOCENT' people would have died. He has proved himself well capable of mass extermination in the past. I applaud the current government and all soldiers and police involved for the extremely low casualty rate given the ammount of time that has elapsed and activities of the protesters. Unfortunatly, Some innocents were more than likely mistakenly harmed but that can only be blamed on red shirt supporters whom ultimately refused what they were protesting for in the first place, 'AN EARLY ELECTION'.

[CHdiver]

I am loathe to post in any way to seem to take so-called 'sides' here- but I really have to laugh about Amnesty complaining that the government here has violated the 'law'. Which 'law'? Since the police disappeared, I haven't been aware that there was any operative 'law' here in the city, and if this crisis ever ends it will be interesting to see on what basis the 'police' claim the right to 'enforce' any other 'law'.

I suppose it could be about the Geneva Convention or some other treaty to which Thailand is a signatory, but I doubt that the terrorists care- they're not exactly playing by the whole 'wear a uniform which identifies you' kind of thing, which kind of makes it hard to determine who is who according to the rules of war- or that the way-too-inexperienced-and-untrained army recruits have exactly been filled in on the subtleties.

All-in-all, a poor showing for Thailand.

Don't be loathed to come out and call something as it is. Well said, absolutely no point in beating around the bush.

The Geneva Convention has nothing to do with an illegitamate government using its Army to kill its citizens.

Oh, I should go to Germany and burn some tyres, shoot some Grenades at the Parliament and tell Angela Merkel to fxxk off as she was not elected by the people. Oh, I forgot I am Swiss, maybe I should better go to the Bundesplatz and demonstrate there peacefully by throwing some Molotov Cocktails there, they are also not voted by the people, they must be illegitimate. Now what color Shirt should i choose.....

[citizen33]

For anybody who wants to investigate the legal (as opposed to the empirical) aspect of AI's allegations (and probably there aren't many on TV), here is a quote and link that I posted a few days ago:

“Law enforcement officials shall not use firearms against persons except in self-defence or defence of others against the imminent threat of death or serious injury, to prevent the perpetration of a particularly serious crime involving grave threat to life, to arrest a person presenting such a danger and resisting their authority, or to prevent his or her escape, and only when less extreme means are insufficient to achieve these objectives. In any event, intentional lethal use of firearms may only be made when strictly unavoidable in order to protect life. "

UN Basic Principles on the Use of Force and Firearms by Law Enforcement Officials (Eighth United Nations Congress on the Prevention of Crime and the Treatment of Offenders, Havana, 27 August to 7 September 1990, U.N. Doc. A/CONF.144/28/Rev.1 at 112, 1990), Principle 9.

http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/instree/i2bpuff.htm

International human rights law is a notoriously complex and contested field. It is usually considered that rules that derive from international agreements that a country has ratified have a stronger status than "customary international law" (based on what States do or what they believe their obligations to be). My understanding is that Thailand was a signatory to the 1990 Basic Principles. This does not mean that the principles would be recognised by the Thai courts, but some human rights lawyers will argue that there might be recourse to bodies like the ICC - though I doubt that this is realistic in this case.

[Thunder26]

He fell or was pushed from the truck, hence knocked out/injured but not shot/dead! The same people who spread this marmite are the same people who think Abhisit was elected by the people. He was not elected by the PEOPLE. He was elected by MP's that jumped ship after the dissolution. The general public would not have voted for the MP's in the first place if they knew in the future they would have jumped ships to the current coalition. There should have been an election after Thaksin's proxy govt had been dissolved, but the powers from above did not want that. Did they???

According to your logic no prime-minister is elected by people because the same procedure is done for everyone, according to Thai law. People vote parties and then is up to parties whom they choose as a prime-minister. If....If....If....

Edited May 18, 2010 by Thunder26

[clockworkorange]

You may bleat that such actions will lead to naught, but this is still a country where one does not have to live in fear of the 4 o'clock in the morning knock on the door from the 'authorities'. Thailand has a level of safeguards which protect the citizen. I have lived in places where not only do they not exist, but the Ludovico technique would be welcomed.

Safeguards should never be taken for granted.

What makes you so sure that the chaos should be put on hold to guarantee your safety? Why do you assume that you have a right to special treatment, simply because you are a foreigner?

[Netfan]

for christ's sake would people please begin reading and understanding? it doesn't matter whether or not anyone 'innocent' has been killed. the thai army is shooting live rounds in areas where there are its own unarmed citizens. this is a massive breach of UN human rights laws.

how the hel_l are people not getting this? it's not complicated.

for christs sake- the people are in fire zones- and they are fire zones because the reds have barricaded themselves in- invaded neighborhoods - or do you think these places all had stacks of burning tires and drunken idiots firing guns before the reds got there? If the army wanted to kill unarmed people, thousands would be dead, not less than 100. It is so unfortunate that innocent people have been hit - but blame goes on the reds who brought this on. This is not complicated- no red invasion and takeover of neighborhoods, no shooting into these places.

And please site the UN Human Rights Law that firing in self-defense and defense of public and private property is a breach of.

'not less than 100'. well there you go. human rights laws breached, innocent citizens shot at by their own government. which is the subject of this thread. whatever underhand and foul tactics certain of the redshirts have employed, you do. not. shoot. at. your. own. unarmed. citizens.

this is like talking to a 9 year old child. two wrongs do not make a bloody right.

They are not shooting at unarmed civilians, They are shooting at people who are either : 1. shooting at them - either handguns, rifles, rpg's or less lethal weapons - rockets, fire bombs, sling shots 2. lighting fires (its called arson) 3. looting 4. running checkpoints

What is so hard about this to understand- 1. they are not shooting at unarmed people- unfortunately some unarmed people have been placed in danger and hurt and yes, killed, but because of the redshirts guerilla tactics 2. There are not wrongs on each side - only one, as self defense and defense of public and private property is not wrong.

[CHdiver]

For anybody who wants to investigate the legal (as opposed to the empirical) aspect of AI's allegations (and probably there aren't many on TV), here is a quote and link that I posted a few days ago:

“Law enforcement officials shall not use firearms against persons except in self-defence or defence of others against the imminent threat of death or serious injury, to prevent the perpetration of a particularly serious crime involving grave threat to life, to arrest a person presenting such a danger and resisting their authority, or to prevent his or her escape, and only when less extreme means are insufficient to achieve these objectives. In any event, intentional lethal use of firearms may only be made when strictly unavoidable in order to protect life. "

UN Basic Principles on the Use of Force and Firearms by Law Enforcement Officials (Eighth United Nations Congress on the Prevention of Crime and the Treatment of Offenders, Havana, 27 August to 7 September 1990, U.N. Doc. A/CONF.144/28/Rev.1 at 112, 1990), Principle 9.

http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/instree/i2bpuff.htm

International human rights law is a notoriously complex and contested field. It is usually considered that rules that derive from international agreements that a country has ratified have a stronger status than "customary international law" (based on what States do or what they believe their obligations to be). My understanding is that Thailand was a signatory to the 1990 Basic Principles. This does not mean that the principles would be recognised by the Thai courts, but some human rights lawyers will argue that there might be recourse to bodies like the ICC - though I doubt that this is realistic in this case.

You may remind the G8 states when they hold there next meeting.

[TheOldWolf]

For anybody who wants to investigate the legal (as opposed to the empirical) aspect of AI's allegations (and probably there aren't many on TV), here is a quote and link that I posted a few days ago:

"Law enforcement officials shall not use firearms against persons except in self-defence or defence of others against the imminent threat of death or serious injury, to prevent the perpetration of a particularly serious crime involving grave threat to life, to arrest a person presenting such a danger and resisting their authority, or to prevent his or her escape, and only when less extreme means are insufficient to achieve these objectives. In any event, intentional lethal use of firearms may only be made when strictly unavoidable in order to protect life. "

UN Basic Principles on the Use of Force and Firearms by Law Enforcement Officials (Eighth United Nations Congress on the Prevention of Crime and the Treatment of Offenders, Havana, 27 August to 7 September 1990, U.N. Doc. A/CONF.144/28/Rev.1 at 112, 1990), Principle 9.

http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/instree/i2bpuff.htm

International human rights law is a notoriously complex and contested field. It is usually considered that rules that derive from international agreements that a country has ratified have a stronger status than "customary international law" (based on what States do or what they believe their obligations to be). My understanding is that Thailand was a signatory to the 1990 Basic Principles. This does not mean that the principles would be recognised by the Thai courts, but some human rights lawyers will argue that there might be recourse to bodies like the ICC - though I doubt that this is realistic in this case.

The problem is, that none of us were at the place at the time for the shots. We were not behind the man with the gun. We have not seen what he maybe have seen. We don´t know what side the shooters with the killing guns was on. We don´t know how many of this "innocent civilians" where carrying guns. we can each of us think of with party who will gain from medicals, woman and journalist get killed. The goverment? The red shirts?

[BNZ]

It may not be a machine gun or automatic weapons but is certainly appears to be a rifle that the guy is firing randomly under the cover of the fire crackers. If true, then it is clear the army is likely not the ones who pulled the trigger on many reds, reporters or medics ... one also has to wonder who has gained and who has not from reporters and medical workers being shot.

ITS A BROOM HANDLE! and you like bush thought it was a weapon of mass destruction.

you rank amateur!

you and your pathetic bloodthirsty gang who call for the spilling of thai blood have been caught with your pants down spreading falsehoods yet again.

So, JC, now that the evidence is on the table are you finally prepared to admit that its the army who are killing innocents, in addition to Reds?

Yet another who conveniently ignores the rockets being fired for all to see in the first part of the video. EVIDENCE !              

"..Caught with your pants down.. "  

I've been on the other end of rockets and they are extremely lethal !  Oh yes sweep that aside for a mere broom handle.

Pathetic misdirection, fooling the Red dupes ......and yourself  

[jonclark]

So where can i pick up one of them brooms Big C, Carrefour or are the mail order. <deleted> me i've heard it all now, just when you think it can't get anymore surreal a gun becomes a broom. Has my coffee been spiked with acid.. Its all too much starting to feel like I'm in a Pink floyd nightmare.

If it is a broom i hate to think what his wife is sweeping the floor with back home.

Edited May 18, 2010 by jonclark

[earthpig]

This guy better go back to shooting school if he want to hurt someone. He is firing at the sky. Paid actors?

No. look carefully and you will see that this is not a gun but a dustbin with firecrackers for effect.

can any photograph in history better symbolize poor people fighting a modern army with absolutely nothing but their bravery?

this is photo deserves the Pulitzer Prize. if the quality is good enough, this is going viral. think what a field day Amnesty is going to have with this one.

due thanks everybody to JCBangkok for his excellent research in bringing this to the attention of the world.

[earthpig]

So where can i pick up one of them brooms Big C, Carrefour or are the mail order. <deleted> me i've heard it all now, just when you think it can't get anymore surreal a gun becomes a broom. Has my coffee been spiked with acid.. Its all too much starting to feel like I'm in a Pink floyd nightmare.

If it is a broom i hate to think what his wife is sweeping the floor with back home.

maybe next time she's sweeping you might want to ask her if she wants to go "boom boom"?

[intothefuture]

I believe Amnesty International has over reacted after been fed by mis-leading information from the RED side.

They should be invited to see first hand that only 1 solider have been killed over the last 5 days or so in Bangkok. This is a fact. I am confirm this.

I am a liberal, progressive, pacifist American. As much as I often find myself anti military and anti police power....as a long term resident.... it is so obvious that the government, Abhisit, the army and the police... are all bending over backwards to minimize loss of life...in the midst of an absolute wild chaos including many many armed protesters...who have already shown they will murder police and army personel when given the chance. I cannot imagine any western nation...that would allow violent mobs to comandeer two square miles of a city center and shoot guns and M79 grenades at any law enforcement officers who try to disperse them.....and not issuing orders for the military to simply do whatever necessary to regain control of the streets. That hasn't happened yet. If they were ordered to the Thai military and police could have overwhelmed the protesters in a matter of hours....but these are Thai law enforcement officers...they don't want to. But the funded, nouveua riche red shirt leaders...want violence...they want to overthrow the government now....that is their order from Thaksin. Elections in six months won't work for Thaksin. He needs Abhisit out now...before his money is all returned to the government coffers (is hasn't yet been actually confiscated. 1.4 billion dollars is being held and about to be transferred back to the government. Once that happens, its probably gone. These demonstrations started as a result of a conviction of fraud and the confiscation of these funds. This is not about democracy...it is about a megalomaniac doing everything he can to get money and power.

I have provided a lot of funds to Amnesty International. But they, along with many western governments, and media...have been successfully duped by the banter, led by Thaksin, that this is about a rebellion of the "people" for democracy....after a coup. Hello? CNN/BBC....there was a free and fair election almost two years After the coup....Thaksin's party, the Puea Thai...only got 36% of the vote...and after putting his crony Samak and his brother in law Somchai, into the PM's office.... even Newin of Bhumjai party...a former staunch ally of Thaksin....had had enough...withdrew from the coalition and joined the Democrats and other parties to form a new coaltion. If this government of Abhisit is not democratic...then neither is the English coalition of Conservatives and Lib Dems...nor is Netanyahu's coalition in Israel. I commend Abhisit for his sincere efforts and commend the plice and army for facing armed rebellion and showing incredible restraint.

I am ashamed of Amnestry International. And I am furious at Amsterdam and Peroff. An international law firm that for money...for greed...has taken on a convicted criminal, who fled from the law, who is funding a violent protest against the legitmate government of Thailand. This firm should hear holy hel_l from anyone who loves Thailand and is sick of Thaksin's power lust. Their London numbers are: Phone: +44 20 3002 9980 Fax: +44 20 7488 9196. I just wrote them a fax telling them what I think of them. Someone who has connections to Amnesty needs to call their leadership and ask why they are supporting a despot...Thaksin..and supporting armed rebellion.

[Rucharee]

This guy better go back to shooting school if he want to hurt someone. He is firing at the sky. Paid actors?

No. look carefully and you will see that this is not a gun but a dustbin with firecrackers for effect.

can any photograph in history better symbolize poor people fighting a modern army with absolutely nothing but their bravery?

this is photo deserves the Pulitzer Prize. if the quality is good enough, this is going viral. think what a field day Amnesty is going to have with this one.

due thanks everybody to JCBangkok for his excellent research in bringing this to the attention of the world.

Maybe it is just me. Still look like a gun to me. This is just my opinion. You need not agree with me, I understand that.

[animatic]

This is the other war. The PR war on an international basis.

This was also the aim, to create scenes that could be

manipulated by the likes of Amsterdam on the international stage.

If he can win control back on the street he wants to hobble the government

till he causes economic breakdown and the people get fed up and kick the gocernment up.

Nice guys finish last, those who act survive. Thaksin has been betting that Abhisit is too nice

and that he can create a wedge between him and the army. But more importantly between

both of them and the Thai people.

This is just another facet of the Thaksin plot against Thailand.

[earthpig]

I've been on the other end of rockets and they are extremely lethal ! Oh yes sweep that aside for a mere broom handle.

gee, BMZ.

if roman candles and broom handles are "extremely lethal" what might be a highly trained army sniper with a modern large caliber high velocity sniper rifle working in concert with an equally highly trained spotter using high magnification binoculars fitted for night vision or thermal imaging scopes?

c'mon admit it.!

your a troll for amnesty international! arent you???

[animatic]

I believe Amnesty International has over reacted after been fed by mis-leading information from the RED side.

They should be invited to see first hand that only 1 solider have been killed over the last 5 days or so in Bangkok. This is a fact. I am confirm this.

I am a liberal, progressive, pacifist American. As much as I often find myself anti military and anti police power....as a long term resident.... it is so obvious that the government, Abhisit, the army and the police... are all bending over backwards to minimize loss of life...in the midst of an absolute wild chaos including many many armed protesters...who have already shown they will murder police and army personel when given the chance. I cannot imagine any western nation...that would allow violent mobs to comandeer two square miles of a city center and shoot guns and M79 grenades at any law enforcement officers who try to disperse them.....and not issuing orders for the military to simply do whatever necessary to regain control of the streets. That hasn't happened yet. If they were ordered to the Thai military and police could have overwhelmed the protesters in a matter of hours....but these are Thai law enforcement officers...they don't want to. But the funded, nouveua riche red shirt leaders...want violence...they want to overthrow the government now....that is their order from Thaksin. Elections in six months won't work for Thaksin. He needs Abhisit out now...before his money is all returned to the government coffers (is hasn't yet been actually confiscated. 1.4 billion dollars is being held and about to be transferred back to the government. Once that happens, its probably gone. These demonstrations started as a result of a conviction of fraud and the confiscation of these funds. This is not about democracy...it is about a megalomaniac doing everything he can to get money and power.

I have provided a lot of funds to Amnesty International. But they, along with many western governments, and media...have been successfully duped by the banter, led by Thaksin, that this is about a rebellion of the "people" for democracy....after a coup. Hello? CNN/BBC....there was a free and fair election almost two years After the coup....Thaksin's party, the Puea Thai...only got 36% of the vote...and after putting his crony Samak and his brother in law Somchai, into the PM's office.... even Newin of Bhumjai party...a former staunch ally of Thaksin....had had enough...withdrew from the coalition and joined the Democrats and other parties to form a new coaltion. If this government of Abhisit is not democratic...then neither is the English coalition of Conservatives and Lib Dems...nor is Netanyahu's coalition in Israel. I commend Abhisit for his sincere efforts and commend the plice and army for facing armed rebellion and showing incredible restraint.

I am ashamed of Amnestry International. And I am furious at Amsterdam and Peroff. An international law firm that for money...for greed...has taken on a convicted criminal, who fled from the law, who is funding a violent protest against the legitmate government of Thailand. This firm should hear holy hel_l from anyone who loves Thailand and is sick of Thaksin's power lust. Their London numbers are: Phone: +44 20 3002 9980 Fax: +44 20 7488 9196. I just wrote them a fax telling them what I think of them. Someone who has connections to Amnesty needs to call their leadership and ask why they are supporting a despot...Thaksin..and supporting armed rebellion.

Agreed.

[animatic]

I've been on the other end of rockets and they are extremely lethal ! Oh yes sweep that aside for a mere broom handle.

gee, BMZ.

if roman candles and broom handles are "extremely lethal" what might be a highly trained army sniper with a modern large caliber high velocity sniper rifle working in concert with an equally highly trained spotter using high magnification binoculars fitted for night vision or thermal imaging scopes?

c'mon admit it.!

your a troll for amnesty international! arent you???

Several people die every year from just playing with these stupid rockets.

When they are aimed at soldiers they don't become LESS deadly.

[simonmiller]

good grief, are people incapable of reading a statement properly on here? amnesty international is not saying that nobody in the red camp is armed. it is saying that SOME of the people in there, specifically women and children, are unarmed and are being fired at with live rounds by a nation state's army. that is a violation of human rights, whether they are in the red camp by choice or not.

Thanks for this comment Stevie H. So much paranoia and facist leanings again amongst posters. Amnesty is an International watchdog - it has no agenda in making this statement other than the fact cited: that firing live rounds at civilians who are so far away they cannot pose a threat to the sniper/soldier is a breach of human rights. They do not say anything about armed Red shirts because it is irrelevant to the concern voiced. Keyboard gunslingers need to engage their brains. No doubt any international body or government voicing concerns will be condemned as blinkered if they are not explicitly ant-red - but if the NRA suggests that the army is 'defending civil liberties' you'll all start cheering!

[porky8pig]

good grief, are people incapable of reading a statement properly on here? amnesty international is not saying that nobody in the red camp is armed. it is saying that SOME of the people in there, specifically women and children, are unarmed and are being fired at with live rounds by a nation state's army. that is a violation of human rights, whether they are in the red camp by choice or not.

People on here read what they want to read steve, it is clear that unarmed people that pose no immediate threat are being shot and killed, but some on here think that being in a protest is justification enough to be shot and killed, even the two red cross operative trying to help people were murdered by the army.

I saw this morning on television the army showing only 3 protesters carrying weapons, I would rather see footage of the people they shot and murdered with guns or grenades posing an immediate threat to life, sadly though they don't seem to have any of this footage as the people shot and killed were on the whole unarmed and posing to immediate danger.

Hopefully people will take note of this report, well people that matter and not the usual red shirt haters on here.

Tony and Steve, my gosh, what about the others' right to have a peaceful land that we used to have; everyone have a clear eyes can see this is not a legitimate demonstration asking for democracy; they are asking for trouble can you see it??

[Rucharee]

I've been on the other end of rockets and they are extremely lethal ! Oh yes sweep that aside for a mere broom handle.

gee, BMZ.

if roman candles and broom handles are "extremely lethal" what might be a highly trained army sniper with a modern large caliber high velocity sniper rifle working in concert with an equally highly trained spotter using high magnification binoculars fitted for night vision or thermal imaging scopes?

c'mon admit it.!

your a troll for amnesty international! arent you???

Several people die every year from just playing with these stupid rockets.

When they are aimed at soldiers they don't become LESS deadly.

And how many children die playing with their parrents' guns in the USA? I am such a lot more.

[earthpig]

This guy better go back to shooting school if he want to hurt someone. He is firing at the sky. Paid actors?

No. look carefully and you will see that this is not a gun but a dustbin with firecrackers for effect.

can any photograph in history better symbolize poor people fighting a modern army with absolutely nothing but their bravery?

this is photo deserves the Pulitzer Prize. if the quality is good enough, this is going viral. think what a field day Amnesty is going to have with this one.

due thanks everybody to JCBangkok for his excellent research in bringing this to the attention of the world.

Maybe it is just me. Still look like a gun to me. This is just my opinion. You need not agree with me, I understand that.

then take a look at another video shot of exaclty the same scene at 0:30. Now you will understand.

[/

you are victim of, probably, paid trolls. "the first casualty of war is truth."

[jcbangkok]

This guy better go back to shooting school if he want to hurt someone. He is firing at the sky. Paid actors?

No. look carefully and you will see that this is not a gun but a dustbin with firecrackers for effect.

can any photograph in history better symbolize poor people fighting a modern army with absolutely nothing but their bravery?

this is photo deserves the Pulitzer Prize. if the quality is good enough, this is going viral. think what a field day Amnesty is going to have with this one.

due thanks everybody to JCBangkok for his excellent research in bringing this to the attention of the world.

Bottom Line is it would be justified for the army and/or police to shoot this terrorist. So, lets hope the video and screen shoot I took from it do go viral. It would surely show what the brave and committed soldiers are up against.

For those who have not seen this video ... look 32 seconds after they light off the firecrackers which appear to be to cover the sounds of this guy firing a weapon. Either that or he is suicidal. And would appreciate any thoughts on what you believe is happening.

Won't even get into the first part with the kid being taught to fire rockets.

[brianbiegler]

good grief, are people incapable of reading a statement properly on here? amnesty international is not saying that nobody in the red camp is armed. it is saying that SOME of the people in there, specifically women and children, are unarmed and are being fired at with live rounds by a nation state's army. that is a violation of human rights, whether they are in the red camp by choice or not.

People on here read what they want to read steve, it is clear that unarmed people that pose no immediate threat are being shot and killed, but some on here think that being in a protest is justification enough to be shot and killed, even the two red cross operative trying to help people were murdered by the army.

I saw this morning on television the army showing only 3 protesters carrying weapons, I would rather see footage of the people they shot and murdered with guns or grenades posing an immediate threat to life, sadly though they don't seem to have any of this footage as the people shot and killed were on the whole unarmed and posing to immediate danger.

Hopefully people will take note of this report, well people that matter and not the usual red shirt haters on here.

AS a previous member of Amnesty International Secretariat staff, I know the organisation and its values well. I can only say that on this coccasion (and some others) their well-meaning liberality has gotten the better of them but it is not the first time that their efforts to protect the 'innocent' has gone off the rails. Sorry Amnesty, you have got this so totally wong. Shame on you. I think the ideologists amongst you now have the upper hand. I could have accepted this statement if it had been equally critical of both sides and then made a clear statement about the person who started all of this.

Well written ianf, that would have made much more sense.

Agreed, well written. I don't understand how come people don't understand such obvious facts. Red Shirt insurgents were given a deal, even when they didn't deserve it. They refused. They are breaking the law right now. The government in an effort to uphold the law and restore order to a city besieged by those who wish to foment chaos and revolution has ordered them to cease and desist or suffer consequences meted out by the forces attempting to uphold the law.

In some cases that consequence is being shot.

I'm proud the Thai government finally stood its ground and is refusing to negotiate anything until they cease and disperse. The red leaders took their gamble to ride Thaksin's money train--if they could successfully implement his plan they would reap great benefits, if they failed they will be punished. High stakes game playing for the control of this Kingdom.

Doesn't history prove that trying to overthrow a government and failing result in death by firing squad?

oh dear, I've wandered off topic.

cheers.

[intothefuture]

He fell or was pushed from the truck, hence knocked out/injured but not shot/dead! The same people who spread this marmite are the same people who think Abhisit was elected by the people. He was not elected by the PEOPLE. He was elected by MP's that jumped ship after the dissolution. The general public would not have voted for the MP's in the first place if they knew in the future they would have jumped ships to the current coalition. There should have been an election after Thaksin's proxy govt had been dissolved, but the powers from above did not want that. Did they???

London Thai...you are absolutely wrong. You are spewing out the warped spin of the corrupt and despotic Thaksin political machine. I suspect you are a paid Red Shirt. Perhaps paid by Amsterdam and Peroff..Thaksin's new PR law firm. Because you cannot really believe what you wrote? You just count on lots of people not knowing the truth...and buying and passing on your spin.

Just like England...the free and fair elections, almost two years after the coup...(which Thaksin's party campaigned and participated in..the Puea Thai)...in 2007, ended in a hung parliament... Puea Thai won only 36%...slightly more than Democrats .... 30%....but they did NOT win a majority. Just like England...a coalition government was required. Just like England...with the Conservatives who had the most elected parlianmentarians....the Puea Thai were given the right to try to form a coaltion. They did...it included the Bhumjai party..among others. Then the first two parliamentarian elected Prime Ministers.... Thaksin's cronie Gen Samak...the military leader of the 93 massacre of college students (unarmed) and then his brother in law Somchai...were forced to step down...not allowed to keep the PM postition due to legal technicalities (you can argue that these were questionable decisions...) BUT ....Puea Thai and its coalition still were in power...Thaksin was in power thru his party....The Puea Thai simply needed to name a new PM. And if that had happened there would be no red shirts, no protests...and Thaksin would control Thailand and speak of how wonderful democracy is here. But.....as is allowed by law...in Thailand and in England... one party pulled out of the coaltion...Newin Chidchob of Bhumjai..was finally unable to support the despot Thaksin any more...he told Thaksin he was pulling his party out of the coalition...Bhumjai's parliamentarians joined the Democrats and several smaller parties..and by democratic process...and by Thai law...formed a new coaltion....a duly elected new government containing the majority of parliamentarians elected by the people of Thailand in 2007. Over two years after the Coup. This is the truth. Period. LondonThai...If you don't like democracy...just say so... but this is how it works. And Thaksin is a human rights abusing despot and no longer the leader of Thailand...and doesn't have a majority of support here...and is inflaming armed insurrection...at the cost of lives and livelihood for all Thais. For those that want to let Thaksin's lawyers know how dispicable they are...please call or fax them and tell them their greed for Thaksin's money is damaging Thailand and instigating violence and death of innocents.

Amsterdam and Peroff in London: Phone : +44 20 3002 9980 Fax: +44 20 7488 9196

[Rucharee]

This guy better go back to shooting school if he want to hurt someone. He is firing at the sky. Paid actors?

No. look carefully and you will see that this is not a gun but a dustbin with firecrackers for effect.

can any photograph in history better symbolize poor people fighting a modern army with absolutely nothing but their bravery?

this is photo deserves the Pulitzer Prize. if the quality is good enough, this is going viral. think what a field day Amnesty is going to have with this one.

due thanks everybody to JCBangkok for his excellent research in bringing this to the attention of the world.

Bottom Line is it would be justified for the army and/or police to shoot this terrorist. So, lets hope the video and screen shoot I took from it do go viral. It would surely show what the brave and committed soldiers are up against.

For those who have not seen this video ... look 32 seconds after they light off the firecrackers which appear to be to cover the sounds of this guy firing a weapon. Either that or he is suicidal. And would appreciate any thoughts on what you believe is happening.

Won't even get into the first part with the kid being taught to fire rockets.

I see no Thai boys under 18.

Asian boys look younger than they are.

[simonmiller]

I think the ideologists amongst you now have the upper hand. I could have accepted this statement if it had been equally critical of both sides and then made a clear statement about the person who started all of this.

That would be taking a political stand and muddying the waters. And a lot of people seem to have lost sight of what is happening here. The government is supposed to be exemplary in its actions, not stooping to the levels of the opposition. Should British police start throwing petrol bombs at urban protests? When a giovernement gives itself the power to shoot anyone without recourse to the law, we should be worried - as Amnesty clearly are. I know this statement will itself get shot down by a trigger-happy faction on this forum, who I am supposing left the USA because it wasn't right wing enough or because they could adopt an amoral lifestyle without recourse to anyone or anything but themselves.