Bangkok: Central World Shopping Mall Destroyed By Fire

[SiangDeeMahk]

guys, a note. You are NOT in the United States. You are in Thailand. do try to remember that one simple fact and try to ascertain how THAI law applies to things instead of how the US law applies, cause I am getting tired of reading the same arguments thread after thread after thread. cheers.

Or, to corralate it to something recent, and probably make it a bit more accurate, how about: "You are NOT in Kansas anymore, YOU'RE ON PANDORA!"

(yes, thats a Photoshopped "red" Na'Vi bearing an assault weapon)

Because compared to the US, Thailand really IS another planet. Cheers!

Wow.. I'm not usually as as this. Must be getting tired again.

[jitenshaman]

You make it sound as if Central World was a workers' paradise.

I doubt there will be nary a tear shed by the toilet cleaners, floor sweepers and security guards that had obscene wealth and snobbery rammed down their throats on a daily basis.

I actually assume a lot of tears and anger will be shed over the unbelievable loss of jobs and unemployment created by this mob. If the mob is so concerned with obscene wealth and snobbery, i suggest they plan their next attacks on estates in Hong Kong, Dubai, Montenegro, and the Luis Vuitton shops in Paris their poor working class serf leader frequents.

[KMUTT]

Nuthugging at its finest. Wipe your chin mate....

Joined Date: Thursday, November 13, 2008

First Post Date: Thursday, May 20, 2010

Duration calculation results

It is 553 days from the start date to the end date.

Nice to see you thought long and hard before making your first thought-provoking and enlightening post.

See ya again in 553 more days for post number two on Thursday, November 24, 2011.

[sksk]

facebook.com/album.php?aid=68231&id=1434860863&saved#!/profile.php?id=1434860863

pictures of CW the day after

feel free to repost pics directly on tvisa

Edited May 20, 2010 by sksk

[KMUTT]

Anyone wondered why possibly the government hasn't gone forward with designating Thaksin a terrorist.

The delay was from the courts, not the government.

[KMUTT]

quote name='lilkitty' post='3624716' date='2010-05-20 18:19:50']This photo in particular is the most concerning to me. I asked one of my Thai friends if he knew anything more about it. And it seems these are not the "fake monks" that everyone has been talking about, but the actual monks of the temple that is near the protest site at Rajprasong. Apparently when the army came in, they were rounded up, thrown to the floor and cuffed until it could be determined that they were real monks. I saw another photo of them somewhere yesterday from a Thai newspaper, laying on the floor with their eyes blindfolded in front of the soldiers' feet. If you understand a little about Thai culture and the respect for monks, especially them laying at the feet of soldiers, I believe you understand where my concerns come from. I'll try and find the other photo again, as well.[/quote

Regardless, they were breaking the law.

Are you sure they were breaking the law? After all, they were in their temple. And from what I've seen they were sheltering women and children inside the temple and saving their lives.

Yes, 100% as I have full confidence that authorities are not arresting Monks without cause just as they were not targeting reporters with snipers ... neither would serve any purpose and would only hurt their cause.

Oh, and beyond your friend ... any link to prove your statement they were taken from the Temple?

I cut the picture because it downloads so slow.

My wife took one look and said not a real monk, my wife works with monks all the time, a real monk would not cry.

I also doubt the the story about the other image, monks tied at the feet of soldiers. The image next to this one on the same website was a black guard hands tied on the ground at the feet of the soldiers.

A serious charge, I think the author needs to produce that other image.

Lots of Red Fake Monks:

Edited May 20, 2010 by KMUTT

[steffi]

Has it been confirmed yet whether or not all of Central World will be demolished or is it just the Zen portion?

[steffi]

Many of the pictures have shown the military outfditted with what look to be pump action shot guns. Isn't that a little surprising? Isn't the range of these weapons limited? is this because they cannot shoot straight and have to spray the pellets to get a hit?

Has it been confirmed yet whether or not all of Central World will be demolished or is it just the Zen portion?

[rabo]

Many of the pictures have shown the military outfditted with what look to be pump action shot guns. Isn't that a little surprising? Isn't the range of these weapons limited? is this because they cannot shoot straight and have to spray the pellets to get a hit?

Has it been confirmed yet whether or not all of Central World will be demolished or is it just the Zen portion?

The little shotguns are the rubber bullet guns. From the photos, about 2/3 of the soldiers are carrying these, the rest M16s.

[jaideeguy]

The Thai wife casually mentioned the other day that it wasn't the 'reds' that torched Central, but a bunch of drunk teenagers that were on the way out when the red rats escaped. Any truth to this????

It could have been mentioned in an earlier post, but 39 pages is hard to wade thru.

Surely there were security webcams, but maybe disabled with power cut?? but still many journalists and I'm sure the army had infiltrators. Surely some witnesses??

[whybother]

The Thai wife casually mentioned the other day that it wasn't the 'reds' that torched Central, but a bunch of drunk teenagers that were on the way out when the red rats escaped. Any truth to this????

It could have been mentioned in an earlier post, but 39 pages is hard to wade thru.

Surely there were security webcams, but maybe disabled with power cut?? but still many journalists and I'm sure the army had infiltrators. Surely some witnesses??

1) I don't think there would have been drunk teenagers around in (effectively) a war zone. The area has been closed off for several weeks.

2) The red shirts broke all of the security cameras in the area.

[SomTumTiger]

The Thai wife casually mentioned the other day that it wasn't the 'reds' that torched Central, but a bunch of drunk teenagers that were on the way out when the red rats escaped. Any truth to this????

It could have been mentioned in an earlier post, but 39 pages is hard to wade thru.

Surely there were security webcams, but maybe disabled with power cut?? but still many journalists and I'm sure the army had infiltrators. Surely some witnesses??

Plently of photos of black Red guards throwing molotovs and petrol bombs, and piling burning tires inside the mall. They might have been drunk (more likely wacked out on Yaabaa) and might have been teenagers - but they were most definitely red militants.

[ferd54]

*sigh*

Communist drivel is so tiresome.

Communism has proven not to work, but corrupt forms of "capitalism" and "democracy" don't function much better, as witnessed by recent events in BKK.

Ironically it seems workers have the best conditions in the Scandanavian countries, not the so-called communist states, but they are relatively small nations.

But perhaps you would label their strict protection of worker and social rights communist.

[Mario2008]

1 post deleted for quoting the bangkok post.

[SomTumTiger]

1 post deleted for quoting the bangkok post.

Damned BKK Post - source of so much social division, misinformation, and vagaries. Good thing we have the pure honest, non bias of the Nation to fall back on.

[hyperdimension]

This is an excellent article: Thai power grows from the barrel of a gun By William Barnes

Here's an extract (with my own bolding for your attention):

Whether the UDD's shadowy armed wing consists of mafia thugs, unemployed irregulars or disaffected regular soldiers, they must be capable of ruthless and focused violence, he said.

Therdpoum, born in humble circumstances in northeastern Thailand, was a hotel union organizer who fled to the communist underground in 1975 to oppose a brutal right wing government. Many hundreds of the country's most energetic students and intellectuals did the same. Most, like Therdpoum, later renounced the ideology.

His five-year odyssey with the Communist Party of Thailand (CPT) included a three-month period in Hanoi in the heady period following the unification of Vietnam under communist rule. There, Therdpoum and a handful of hand-picked Thai activists, like prominent student leader Seksan Prasertkun, as well as current UDD leaders Weng Tochirakan and Jaran Dittapichai, were drilled in Maoist revolutionary theory.

The five tactics they learned for unseating a government included: divide your enemies; form a united front; use provocative violence; secure the loyalty of people inside the ruling regime; and, finally, win over the army.

"That is what we have seen. The government people have been quarrelling about what to do. Some senior figures have a divided loyalty. The army and the police cannot move. Provocative violence has been very successful," said Therdpoum, referring to the UDD's campaign to topple Abhisit's government.

"The tactic is to keep saying that you are a peace-loving people. The many factions folded into the united front [uDD] organization are not told what the real strategy is because they might not agree and they might not act their part convincingly," he added.

A generation ago, the eager young communists in Thailand's underground movement, many of whom now play major roles on Thailand's political stage, were told that propaganda should be blunt, simple and repeated incessantly to be effective. The UDD has similarly shunned hard policy debates in favor of simple credos of justice denied and the hypocrisy of elites.

"The red shirt people have been told over and over that greedy people in authority have denied them justice and their fair share. They have been pumped full of toy-town leftism and told to hate every institution that has held this country together. I worry that the bitterness and hatred produced by this propaganda now runs so deep it will cause tension and problems for a long time," Therdpoum said.

"Many of them are now absolutely convinced that Thaksin was the best leader in Thai history, that he was a kind and generous man who holds the solution to all their problems. They don't need a program - they just need a new Thai state with Thaksin in charge. It has become very emotional - as it was designed to be," he added.

This article makes it clear that this Red Shirt movement is a power struggle between elites at the top, not a fight for democracy. They are playing a game of chess, with both sides using and sacrificing pawns, rooks and bishops to try to achieve their goals.

I am now thinking that the government allowed the burnings to take place, sacrificing Central World, so that the UDD could (further) paint themselves as villains, a little like how the images and video of the World Trader Center terrorist attacks in New York paint Osama Bin Laden and the Taliban as villains. Public perception is one of the most crucial factors for any one or group to remain or gain power ("win the crowd"). The government must have known of the great possibility that Central World would be looted and/or burnt, yet there does not seem to be any evidence of preventative measures nor large scale action when it started happening. Instead, it seemed that the job of security forces was over once the leaders were taken from the stage into custody. I think the fact that there was nobody inside made it a lot easier to decide to write it off as a sacrifice.

So it now appears that Abhisit and the current government are winning in the public relations war.

Edited May 21, 2010 by hyperdimension

[steffi]

Does anybody think that Thaksin thru proxy's could have been shorting the SET whilst all this was happening?

Has anybody actually look into was the trading activity was prior to all this happening? I just wonder if a smart tacticial with financial skills has benefited at all from the mayhem. By say shorting the baht for instance.

I hope they find ever single individual who fanned the flames of Central World and give the arson prison sentences.

This is an excellent article: Thai power grows from the barrel of a gun By William Barnes

Here's an extract (with my own bolding for your attention):

Whether the UDD's shadowy armed wing consists of mafia thugs, unemployed irregulars or disaffected regular soldiers, they must be capable of ruthless and focused violence, he said.

Therdpoum, born in humble circumstances in northeastern Thailand, was a hotel union organizer who fled to the communist underground in 1975 to oppose a brutal right wing government. Many hundreds of the country's most energetic students and intellectuals did the same. Most, like Therdpoum, later renounced the ideology.

His five-year odyssey with the Communist Party of Thailand (CPT) included a three-month period in Hanoi in the heady period following the unification of Vietnam under communist rule. There, Therdpoum and a handful of hand-picked Thai activists, like prominent student leader Seksan Prasertkun, as well as current UDD leaders Weng Tochirakan and Jaran Dittapichai, were drilled in Maoist revolutionary theory.

The five tactics they learned for unseating a government included: divide your enemies; form a united front; use provocative violence; secure the loyalty of people inside the ruling regime; and, finally, win over the army.

"That is what we have seen. The government people have been quarrelling about what to do. Some senior figures have a divided loyalty. The army and the police cannot move. Provocative violence has been very successful," said Therdpoum, referring to the UDD's campaign to topple Abhisit's government.

"The tactic is to keep saying that you are a peace-loving people. The many factions folded into the united front [uDD] organization are not told what the real strategy is because they might not agree and they might not act their part convincingly," he added.

A generation ago, the eager young communists in Thailand's underground movement, many of whom now play major roles on Thailand's political stage, were told that propaganda should be blunt, simple and repeated incessantly to be effective. The UDD has similarly shunned hard policy debates in favor of simple credos of justice denied and the hypocrisy of elites.

"The red shirt people have been told over and over that greedy people in authority have denied them justice and their fair share. They have been pumped full of toy-town leftism and told to hate every institution that has held this country together. I worry that the bitterness and hatred produced by this propaganda now runs so deep it will cause tension and problems for a long time," Therdpoum said.

"Many of them are now absolutely convinced that Thaksin was the best leader in Thai history, that he was a kind and generous man who holds the solution to all their problems. They don't need a program - they just need a new Thai state with Thaksin in charge. It has become very emotional - as it was designed to be," he added.

This article makes it clear that this Red Shirt movement is a power struggle between elites at the top, not a fight for democracy. They are playing a game of chess, with both sides using and sacrificing pawns, rooks and bishops to try to achieve their goals.

I am now thinking that the government allowed the burnings to take place, sacrificing Central World, so that the UDD could (further) paint themselves as villains, a little like how the images and video of the World Trader Center terrorist attacks in New York paint Osama Bin Laden and the Taliban as villains. Public perception is one of the most crucial factors for any one or group to remain or gain power ("win the crowd"). The government must have known of the great possibility that Central World would be looted and/or burnt, yet there does not seem to be any evidence of preventative measures nor large scale action when it started happening. Instead, it seemed that the job of security forces was over once the leaders were taken from the stage into custody. I think the fact that there was nobody inside made it a lot easier to decide to write it off as a sacrifice.

[whybother]

This article makes it clear that this Red Shirt movement is a power struggle between elites at the top, not a fight for democracy. They are playing a game of chess, with both sides using and sacrificing pawns, rooks and bishops to try to achieve their goals.

I am now thinking that the government allowed the burnings to take place, sacrificing Central World, so that the UDD could (further) paint themselves as villains, a little like how the images and video of the World Trader Center terrorist attacks in New York paint Osama Bin Laden and the Taliban as villains. Public perception is one of the most crucial factors for any one or group to remain or gain power ("win the crowd"). The government must have known of the great possibility that Central World would be looted and/or burnt, yet there does not seem to be any evidence of preventative measures nor large scale action when it started happening. Instead, it seemed that the job of security forces was over once the leaders were taken from the stage into custody. I think the fact that there was nobody inside made it a lot easier to decide to write it off as a sacrifice.

So it now appears that Abhisit and the current government are winning in the public relations war.

Good conspiracy theory, but there were many situations around Bangkok were fire fighters could not get to the fires because of gun fights still going on between the army and the reds.

It was pretty clear at the start of this mess that it wasn't about the poor or democracy, it was all a power struggle. Now that the power struggle is basically over (although there will still be thugs causing problems for awhile), the country can continue fixing some of the other issues.

[jcbangkok]

Many of the pictures have shown the military outfditted with what look to be pump action shot guns. Isn't that a little surprising? Isn't the range of these weapons limited? is this because they cannot shoot straight and have to spray the pellets to get a hit?

They are used to fire rubber bullets.

[NativeBob]

for almost 2 months few thousands ppl went through very powerful brainwash - it looks really perfect to create zombies: patriotic songs, speeches, food, songs, speeches, food, and so on. Every freaking day. I think it would be impossible to de-program these freaks back to normal minds. And now all of them are sent back to their villages and cities. Sure they will arrive not as defeated, but heros.

Whoever made this decision must be retarded or suicidal. The violent anarchy is on its way.

[cup-O-coffee]

I've been following this thread for awhile. it is interesting to say the least; but... the intensity has been lost as the issues become divided and skewed with so many people's views. I say that respectfully, even though I am disgusted with a lot of the callous and hard-lined views.

I read an article in the paper yesterday where a 55 y.o. Thai man shot a 23 y.o. Thai man in the back because the younger one refused to turn down the volume on his car's loud stereo system. It got me to thinking how ludicrous this BKK situation is getting regarding the examples of murder and mayhem being used by the less than respected media.

Lest we forget, it would be safe to say that more people die every day in Thailand for imbecilic and idiotic reasons than the entire body and injury count of this BKK affair. I am pointing out absolutely brain-dead and stupid reasons that bring about these violent behaviors and subsequent daily fatalities; death by multiple stabbings, machetes, acid in the face, poison, beating, collisions, etc. TFT indeed!

So what difference does it make that a far greater number of daily fatalities are spread out over a vast geographical area (emphasis on DAILY) with nary a front page article, as opposed to a far lesser number being isolated in one very small area and occurring over several weeks- The latter being used as a smear campaign to demean the core reasons that the reds became so upset for in the first place?

My conclusive answer is absolutely none. There is no difference. It conclusively points towards a people who choose the path to bloodletting and violence, rather than responsible thought and reconciliation; no middle ground, just retreat and ignore or attack and kill. We all know that if a farang punches a Thai man, he will leave Thailand in a body bag if there is enough remaining of his corpse. Don't believe it? Try it.

That being said; if we remove the token and digressive coverage and photos of the injured and the dead, and take a good look at the core views that started this thing, then perhaps we would be better equipped to identify the "is" and "should be" on the the matter. People are bleeding and dying all over the world even as I type this; yet focusing on the consequences instead of the cause simply makes for ghoulish entertainment for the bloodthirsty.

It used to be that not enough information was bad for getting to the truth of the matter. I am now convinced that, currently, there is too much mis/information available and it clouds getting to the truth of the matter.

[george]

Just in:

MCOT: Basement of CentralWorld shopping centre smolders; firefighters cannot reach site due to risk of building collapse

[indothai]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Bangkok-Red-Shirt-Rally-Live-Frid-t367479.html&st=25

MCOT: Officials at gutted Center One, mall of 300 shops, estimated damage of at least 1 billion baht (about $31 million), 1,000 people unemployed

Officials at gutted Center One, mall of 300 shops, estimated damage of at least 1 billion baht (about $31 million), 1,000 people unemployed

1,000 unemployed directly. Multiply that number to 3 and that is how much will be affected through family relations, multiply again by 3 and the indirect, but immediate, impact will be near 10,000. Not mentioning indirect business impacts, handphone (post-paid/pre-paid), leisure activites, etc.. this will be far reaching... and this only from Center One mall. The estimated lost of $31 million may just be the cost of the building... who knows how much merchandises have been lost... further financial/economic loss affecting loans, etc.

I do hope the government and financial institutions act quickly to prevent wide spread economic problems.

[KKvampire]

The gullible and poorly educated citizens particularly in the north and east would vote for Peau Thai or any similar red or Taksin supporting candidates even after the recent terrorism and madness. Can only hope the rest of the country, for the sake of the Kingdom, will never support any parties with a connection to Taksin or his thugs to have the reigns of power.

[sgtpeppers]

The reds may have started the fire but Abhisit is the one pouring fuel on it.

The sooner he goes the better.

[mmushr00m]

Isnt it increadible that Centrel World was burnt and Gaysorn right across the street and which can be considered very elitist and high end was left totaly unscratched.

The Siam Theatre was torched but Paragon/Siam Discovery/Siam Centre were able to "fight off" arsonist and escaped unscathed.

BIG C Rajdamri, its a walmart man!!! nothing elitist about it although amongst BIg C it can be considered the Hi-So BIG C.....

Mainly Bangkok Bank targeted too.......

Look at what got torched and what didnt. A little obvious dont you think?

[mzqueenie]

Isnt it increadible that Centrel World was burnt and Gaysorn right across the street and which can be considered very elitist and high end was left totaly unscratched.

The Siam Theatre was torched but Paragon/Siam Discovery/Siam Centre were able to "fight off" arsonist and escaped unscathed.

BIG C Rajdamri, its a walmart man!!! nothing elitist about it although amongst BIg C it can be considered the Hi-So BIG C.....

Mainly Bangkok Bank targeted too.......

Look at what got torched and what didnt. A little obvious dont you think?

Maybe they had better security? I'm not sure I'm pretty surprised it wasn't attacked.

Also, I read on the news that Central World is going to be demolished, also Big C which is across the road to Central World is as well badly damaged.

[KMUTT]

The reds may have started the fire but Abhisit is the one pouring fuel on it.

The sooner he goes the better.

So we can have that fine, outstanding, humanitarian Chalerm as PM.

[chaoyang]

Isnt it increadible that Centrel World was burnt and Gaysorn right across the street and which can be considered very elitist and high end was left totaly unscratched.

The Siam Theatre was torched but Paragon/Siam Discovery/Siam Centre were able to "fight off" arsonist and escaped unscathed.

BIG C Rajdamri, its a walmart man!!

This topic has sprung up on another thread, but it could be the ownership of the sites burned.

[steffi]

Does anybody know why these targets were chosen?

For instance, they could have gone for Gaysorn, Amarin and Siam Paragon. Neither was targeted.

Why did they choose the two cinemas and Central World? Also, why Center One? Is that the big mall where everybody goes to buy clothes with the McDonalds on the ground floor?

The targets seem an odd choice to me.

.... I see somebody else has asked the same questions.

As for big C Rajadamari. It has a very popular food hall that's very busy at lunch times and is more reasonably priced than the one at Paragon in the basement.

Edited May 21, 2010 by steffi