Bangkok: Central World Shopping Mall Destroyed By Fire

[animatic]

...

Blah blah blah

Come off it animatic.

<snip>

Of course

<snip>

Oh yes,

you reduced a quote from me to something that was NEVER SAID: 'Blah blah blah'.

Changing a posters quote without ellipses and adding content not originally there

is against forum rules. Not that I am perfectly in the rules 24/7

Yes, I wasted so much time looking for "Blah, blah, blah" in your post, Animatic.

I can't believe you're wasting time quoting rules about such a trivial matter. Do you think any reader of this forum believed for a second that you actually wrote "Blah, blah, blah"?

By the way, you didn't write "<snip>" either.

And you both ignore the substabnce of what was being said.

[chadintheusa]

Thai wife told me tonight

her sistar tell her that the Government told the soldiers to burn Central shopping centre

She knows this as 2 soldiers who did it told her

The reason

Wait for it

They let the Red shirts use their toilets

Is there any end to the bullshxt they will try to spread to make themselves look like a peaceful protest

As seen on twitter, rumours are going around the red fans by word of mouth that the government put hundreds of protesters in the basement before they put the central world on fire...and the nightly curfews are there to allow them to sneak out the evidence of the mass murder.

Isn't the truth of the red protest and the mayhem it caused enough? Why make up stupid conspiracies. I'm sure your wife and her sister are incredibly well connected and are privy to all sorts of government secrets. The government didn't control Rajsaprong when the mall went up in flames it was still protester central. A few hundred bodies would not require a week and a half of curfews to hide, besides which there are emergency crews at the site during the days. Why not blame the CIA or aliens, I'm sure you could make a case for either if you were drunk enough.

[Theoutsider]

It was not the red that burned the mall it was the yellows dresed up as reds. And the airport was not the yellows it was the reds dresed up as yellows.

It was not the army that shot the reds it was the police dressed up as the army. :-D:-D:-D:-D

[yoshiwara]

I will comment on only a couple of points raised, which means I have little objection to the rest:

<snip>

The first effort was to suggest that the violence was caused by only 1% of reds who were misguided youth.

Of course it was only a minority. You do your cause no good by exaggerating.

Whether you call 30 or 40 years olds "youths" or not is up to you. They were certainly misguided, if not brainwashed and incensed into violence. For that, the leadership and maybe free Lao Khao must be blamed.

<snip>

You can be sure that the only regret the forum red cheerleaders including our new friend have is that the Bangkok burning did not succeed.

<snip>

Pity. You think all red "cheerleaders" think the same? You are wrong, you know it, so why write it?

No exaggeration.

In the act one was paying, one was organising, one was lighting, one was cheering and the fifth was and is excusing.

All roped together.

I think you are all two-faced, including you.

The only exception the children used by the reds as human shields.

Weasel away.

[JetsetBkk]

No exaggeration.

In the act one was paying, one was organising, one was lighting, one was cheering and the fifth was and is excusing.

All roped together.

I think you are all two-faced, including you.

The only exception the children used by the reds as human shields.

Weasel away.

So all these people - except the children - wanted to burn Bangkok, did they?

You lose a lot of credibility when you exaggerate.

[JetsetBkk]

And you both ignore the substabnce of what was being said.

Deliberately as I had no comment on the same old same old.

[tw25rw]

No exaggeration.

In the act one was paying, one was organising, one was lighting, one was cheering and the fifth was and is excusing.

All roped together.

I think you are all two-faced, including you.

The only exception the children used by the reds as human shields.

Weasel away.

So all these people - except the children - wanted to burn Bangkok, did they?

You lose a lot of credibility when you exaggerate.

The civilised ones, and there are many, need to disassociate themselves from the Redshirt movement and disavow any loyalty to the leadership. The Redshirts' image and reputation is tarnished forever and the electorate are polarised for or against. If they want any chance of power without the cycle of coups/civil strife, they need to start afresh and be seen to have turned their back on the extremists.

[lannarebirth]

No exaggeration.

In the act one was paying, one was organising, one was lighting, one was cheering and the fifth was and is excusing.

All roped together.

I think you are all two-faced, including you.

The only exception the children used by the reds as human shields.

Weasel away.

So all these people - except the children - wanted to burn Bangkok, did they?

You lose a lot of credibility when you exaggerate.

The civilised ones, and there are many, need to disassociate themselves from the Redshirt movement and disavow any loyalty to the leadership. The Redshirts' image and reputation is tarnished forever and the electorate are polarised for or against. If they want any chance of power without the cycle of coups/civil strife, they need to start afresh and be seen to have turned their back on the extremists.

Civilized ones? The civilized ones left when the speakers talked about burning the city down and killing soldiers by running them down with their vehicles (just a traffic violation they said). The uncivilized ones stayed after hearing these messages of insurrection , hate and violence and mindlessly clapped their clappers. Some of the uncivilized ones even kept their children there.

Edited May 27, 2010 by lannarebirth

[ChemiseRouge]

Thai wife told me tonight

her sistar tell her that the Government told the soldiers to burn Central shopping centre

She knows this as 2 soldiers who did it told her

The reason

Wait for it

They let the Red shirts use their toilets

Is there any end to the bullshxt they will try to spread to make themselves look like a peaceful protest

Cannot quite make out who this fellow was affiliated with hurling rocks at CentralWorld... can you?

I found a link to a very high res image of the damaged section.

Like google earth you have to let it load as you zoom in, but gives a good idea of the structural damage.

CentralWorld GigaPan

Edited May 27, 2010 by ChemiseRouge

[rixalex]

So all these people - except the children - wanted to burn Bangkok, did they?

You lose a lot of credibility when you exaggerate.

Have you heard of guilt by association?

These people have been hearing for weeks, if not months, the leaders whom they so eagarly applaud and support, talking about violent acts. Wouldn't any reason-minded individual think to themselves upon hearing this sort of stuff " hold on a sec, i believe in what we are doing here, but i can't accept those methods and don't wish to be a part of it - i'm going home". If all of those who you are telling us are peaceful people, had thought that way and simply gone home, a lot of the death and destruction might have been avoided. By staying around to pick up their daily tab day after day and adding numbers to the movement it made things worse.

Those reds who didn't get involved in the violence - of which i'm sure there are many - are guilty for what they didn't do, rather than what they did. They had it in their power to help it end, but they were more concerned about making a few more thousand baht.

Edited May 28, 2010 by rixalex

[chantorn]

So all these people - except the children - wanted to burn Bangkok, did they?

You lose a lot of credibility when you exaggerate.

Have you heard of guilt by association?

These people have been hearing for weeks, if not months, the leaders whom they so eagarly applaud and support, talking about violent acts. Wouldn't any reason-minded individual think to themselves upon hearing this sort of stuff " hold on a sec, i believe in what we are doing here, but i can't accept those methods and don't wish to be a part of it - i'm going home". If all of those who you are telling us are peaceful people, had thought that way and simply gone home, a lot of the death and destruction might have been avoided. By staying around to pick up their daily tab day after day and adding numbers to the movement it made things worse.

Those reds who didn't get involved in the violence - of which i'm sure there are many - are guilty for what they didn't do, rather than what they did.

Just like the 2 farangs in jail?

[rixalex]

Just like the 2 farangs in jail?

Chantorn you seem to quite often post short one liners that are not entirely clear and require guesswork from the reader as to exactly the point it is you are making. Would it be at possible for you to expand at times so we have a clearer idea of what it is you are saying?

[Ulysses G.]

As seen on twitter, rumours are going around the red fans by word of mouth that the government put hundreds of protesters in the basement before they put the central world on fire...and the nightly curfews are there to allow them to sneak out the evidence of the mass murder.

That makes about as much sense as the last few seasons of "Lost".

[mazeltov]

So all these people - except the children - wanted to burn Bangkok, did they?

You lose a lot of credibility when you exaggerate.

Have you heard of guilt by association?

yes. 'guilt by association' is a logical fallacy.

http://www.fallacyfiles.org/guiltbya.html

[cup-O-coffee]

"Does the government have the excuse to order soldiers to put a bullet in the head of an unarmed man conducting an interview on TV."

Has anyone (besides conspiracy theorists) said anywhere that the government ordered this?

That almost has an odor of accusation?

Interesting how the red haters go about convoluting the syntax of justification whenever the tables are turned.

So, by your leave, and using your train of thought, one would be a conspiracy theorist if they held the view that not necessarily all the non-uniformed individuals throughout this event are directly involved with the red ideology and intentions?

By your train of thought, all of these red haters are conspiracy theorists, because they use their broad brushes to collectively incriminate anyone they feel deserves it; whether or not logic and rationale champion the day.

Did I get that right, or did I overlook anything?

Edited May 28, 2010 by cup-O-coffee

[yoshiwara]

No exaggeration.

In the act one was paying, one was organising, one was lighting, one was cheering and the fifth was and is excusing.

All roped together.

I think you are all two-faced, including you.

The only exception the children used by the reds as human shields.

Weasel away.

So all these people - except the children - wanted to burn Bangkok, did they?

You lose a lot of credibility when you exaggerate.

No exaggeration.

We saw the crowds cheering and clapping when Arisman and his crew told them to burn Bangkok.

It was like watching an old black and white newsreel.

The ones who went home only went home because of their assessment of the likelihood of success.

We know that as the occupation progressed, the numbers of reds in attendance went relentlessly down.

Those who remained, including the leadership, the redshirts, the blackshirts....

and the forum red cheerleaders who never wavered in their support....

They were up for it.

The forum red cheerleaders want to pretend that there is a 'pure' red majority, but actually they support the violent ones too.

Their support for the thug attacks however is now in their back pockets.

And as Thaksin moves towards labelling the violence as the work of 'fake' reds.

The forum reds will fall into line.

Including you no doubt.

[rixalex]

yes. 'guilt by association' is a logical fallacy.

http://www.fallacyfiles.org/guiltbya.html

Didn't find your link terribly impressive or revealing. Could you explain in your own words why guilt by association is a logical fallacy?

[Jai Dee]

Some flames have been deleted from this topic.

From the Forum Rules:

Flaming will not be tolerated. 'Flaming' is defined as posting or responding to a message in a way clearly intended to incite useless arguments, to launch personal attacks, to insult, or to be hateful towards other members. This includes useless criticism, name-calling, swearing and any other comments meant to incite anger.

[DoubleTrouble54]

Some soldiers/snippers shot dead unarmed protesters with live ammo .

Most reds or supporters were unarmed according to INDEPENDANT western medias.

Some extremists among the reds retaliated by burning down buildings including

the Central mall .

All those responsible should face legal action .

Same would have happened in any western country if police or army shot dead unarmed protesters .

Lets get on with it , hardly a subject to promote reconciliation among thais

Edited May 28, 2010 by DoubleTrouble54

[rubl]

Some soldiers/snippers shot dead unarmed protesters with live ammo .

Most reds or supporters were unarmed according to INDEPENDANT western medias.

Some extremists among the reds retaliated by burning down buildings including

the Central mall .

All those responsible should face legal action .

Same would have happened in any western country if police or army shot dead unarmed protesters .

Lets get on with it , hardly a subject to promote reconciliation among thais

1. you suggest soldiers & snipers are related which is not obvious (or even true?)

2. most reds indeed unarmed, luckily

3. extrimists amongst the red should be punished

4. All involved should be investigated in the ongoing committies which try to find out what happened. This includes government, army, polices, UDD, reds, others.

5. In the West this wouldn't have happened, different situation, cannot compare.

6. Situation needs investigation, but road-map of PM needs to continue as well.

[rixalex]

Most reds or supporters were unarmed according to INDEPENDANT western medias.

Western media has shown itself to be little more INDEPENDANT than local media.

[rubl]

As seen on twitter, rumours are going around the red fans by word of mouth that the government put hundreds of protesters in the basement before they put the central world on fire...and the nightly curfews are there to allow them to sneak out the evidence of the mass murder.

Isn't the truth of the red protest and the mayhem it caused enough? Why make up stupid conspiracies. I'm sure your wife and her sister are incredibly well connected and are privy to all sorts of government secrets. The government didn't control Rajsaprong when the mall went up in flames it was still protester central. A few hundred bodies would not require a week and a half of curfews to hide, besides which there are emergency crews at the site during the days. Why not blame the CIA or aliens, I'm sure you could make a case for either if you were drunk enough.

After last year's songkhran disaster both UDD and PTP claimed hundred had died during Army actions. I think the official toll after lots of dependent and independent investigations is on THREE. The amount of rumours and doctored videos, audio clips, letters are just as numerous. Somehow the government is seen as more trustworthy tan PTP or UDD.

[rubl]

Most reds or supporters were unarmed according to INDEPENDANT western medias.

Western media has shown itself to be little more INDEPENDANT than local media.

Most true red-shirt's were unarmed. Maybe the western and local press should also mention the armed militants under the red-shirt's causing problems AND justify forceful clear-up

Edited May 28, 2010 by rubl

[tw25rw]

Most reds or supporters were unarmed according to INDEPENDANT western medias.

Western media has shown itself to be little more INDEPENDANT than local media.

Most true red-shirt's were unarmed. Maybe the western and local press should also mention the armed militants under the red-shirt's causing problems AND justify forceful clear-up

Yep. What was the alternative? The army snipers reduced the amount of (inevitable) carnage when the final confrontation came by picking off some of them in advance, but some blame should lie with the moderate redshirt leaders who maintained a defiant stand until too late. If they were a bit smarter and more responsible, they would have got their people out of the way.

[TAWP]

Isn't the truth of the red protest and the mayhem it caused enough? Why make up stupid conspiracies. I'm sure your wife and her sister are incredibly well connected and are privy to all sorts of government secrets. The government didn't control Rajsaprong when the mall went up in flames it was still protester central. A few hundred bodies would not require a week and a half of curfews to hide, besides which there are emergency crews at the site during the days. Why not blame the CIA or aliens, I'm sure you could make a case for either if you were drunk enough.

You fail to read my point. I did not support the views, I posted what I read. I think the notion is silly and dangerous. But it is important to know what the red shirts spread.

As seen on twitter, rumours are going around the red fans by word of mouth that the government put hundreds of protesters in the basement before they put the central world on fire...and the nightly curfews are there to allow them to sneak out the evidence of the mass murder.

That makes about as much sense as the last few seasons of "Lost".

For once we agree.

[SPIKECM]

yes, that's it. trouble is I can't see a URL to open it up in a separate window.. do you have the URL by any chance? thanks for the reply. much obliged

anyone got that youtube link which has translation written on the screen regarding what the red leaders were saying? it has thaksin also. it was posted already but i can't find it again..

Do you mean this one:

Does anyone know where I can find the video of the government television announcement with subtitles that also showed the clips of the leaders inciting arson and looting? I saw it on television when it was broadcasted, but I'd like to watch it again and have a record of it.

Are the government television announcements available to download or view anywhere on the internet? Is there an official web site that archives the video announcements?

[hyperdimension]

do you have the URL by any chance? thanks for the reply. much obliged

YouTube shows the URL at the end for any of the videos it hosts. Here it is anyway:

[yoshiwara]

Most reds or supporters were unarmed according to INDEPENDANT western medias.

Western media has shown itself to be little more INDEPENDANT than local media.

Most true red-shirt's were unarmed. Maybe the western and local press should also mention the armed militants under the red-shirt's causing problems AND justify forceful clear-up

So the armed reds are the fake reds?

Or some 'true' reds were armed?

Or 'er ........................................

Edited May 29, 2010 by yoshiwara

[hughben]

Any recent updates as to what will happen to this building?

I did a search and found nothing.

[whybother]

I believe the western half is open (left side facing from the BTS). The hotel at the back left is open. I don't know what's happening with any reconstruction.