Pattaya Property

[Zstarx]

A developer built four big two story houses on a large plot of land close to me, They went on the market at 20m 18 months back then dropped to 18m, dropped again to 15m then 12m then 10m. The latest get me out of here price is 7m and he still has not even had one viewing.

I would say that any offer 50cents on the dollar would be considered at this time, if not walk away from it, plenty of unsold property around.

Thanks Rimmer, I was hoping to read about stories like that

[Zstarx]

How can buying a property in Thailand be considered to be an investment when you can't own the land it stands on?

Leasing from your ex-bar worker tilac or the family out-laws or forming a dodgy company through a sticky fingered lawyer is far to risky in my opinion.

Makes me wonder where that well known saying directed at expats of "Only spend what you can afford to lose" originated?

Can I politely suggest you read some of the posts on the real estate forum regarding Usufructs, then you would understand better what you are writing about.

[CHdiver]

After almost 7 years in Thailand I still see guys that I met then and they are still renting at approx 9,000 a month for a small bungalow. So they have paid in that time approx 700,000 and got nothing to show.

I also know guys that bought for 2.2 million and brought their money here at 75 baht - £ and sold for the same price, returning to the U.K and converting back at 50 baht - £ and also living in a far better property

Its not always stupid to buy, do the figures. Some have lived here rent free and gone back with a profit, others are £15k down and got nothing

I do have a Friend trying to sell his House since 2 years, lowering the price more and more. He told me 3 times he sold the house, but non of the "Buyers" came up with the Money in the end. So he is still looking to sell. Also, if you rent (and put the money instead in a Bank) you get intrest, you dont have to pay to fix the low quality stuff the Thai build here and you dont have to pay for your Fake Company Paperwork every year. Put that up against rent and think again.

If I dont like it I just pack up and go.

[Zstarx]

After almost 7 years in Thailand I still see guys that I met then and they are still renting at approx 9,000 a month for a small bungalow. So they have paid in that time approx 700,000 and got nothing to show.

I also know guys that bought for 2.2 million and brought their money here at 75 baht - £ and sold for the same price, returning to the U.K and converting back at 50 baht - £ and also living in a far better property

Its not always stupid to buy, do the figures. Some have lived here rent free and gone back with a profit, others are £15k down and got nothing

I do have a Friend trying to sell his House since 2 years, lowering the price more and more. He told me 3 times he sold the house, but non of the "Buyers" came up with the Money in the end. So he is still looking to sell. Also, if you rent (and put the money instead in a Bank) you get intrest, you dont have to pay to fix the low quality stuff the Thai build here and you dont have to pay for your Fake Company Paperwork every year. Put that up against rent and think again.

If I dont like it I just pack up and go.

I take your point but if possible I don't want this thread turning into another rent against buy thread. As my first sentance says "I've always been dead against buying a house that I can't own the land, however with the current troubles there must be some owners desperate to sell"

[Jayroo]

Alway's remember you got it cheap so you will have to sell cheap. Every one know's the price for property has fell through the floor. Good game this buying for investment.

I'm just curious to know why you use apostrophes where they are not required in words??

Jayroo - That is a statement, not a question. So no need for a question mark (let alone two).

Also, a full stop after the word "required" would have made grammatical sense.

See - it's easy to be pedantic!

Umm it was a question, not a statement!!! I'm also allowed use as many exclamation marks, or question marks as I desire!!!!

[jori]

There are loads of properties for sale,visible and invisable,I do not know how Allan Bolton stays open,the office at Villa supermarket site must cost a lot to rent and no business.

It was the visa situation that finally decided me on not to proceed,plus obviously the falling property market,anyway good luck to you.

[ciaociao]

There are loads of properties for sale,visible and invisable,I do not know how Allan Bolton stays open,the office at Villa supermarket site must cost a lot to rent and no business.

It was the visa situation that finally decided me on not to proceed,plus obviously the falling property market,anyway good luck to you.

Real Estate market must be dead. Had my Condo rental listing for 5 years and did not show one time?????

[Rimmer]

Thanks, I've got my eye on a house, price about 10.8m, I'm hoping to come over in August, I'm sure it wouldn't have sold by then, I'll ofer 6m and see what hap

Too much 6 million,offer 4.5 gives you leeway to go to 5 million,and August is good timing ,they will bite your hand off

and on top you will get the Ferrari, the 48' yacht and the stunning girlfriend for free (not two forget the sixteen cases of 97 year old Blue Label). i hope you chaps sleep on rubber sheets to protect your mattresses from the proceeds of your wet dreams.

What you are saying is absolutely correct, folks like you and I who have an investment here and have made the place our home don't need to sell our houses, doesn't matter to us if the so called market price is half or double what we paid, In the sphere of things the cost of a house is a small investment and we don't need the money now or tomorrow, but! Some folks are hurting, they built or bought a house or maybe two, kitted them out with swimming pools and furniture hoping to double their investment then along comes all manner of world and local problems and thier cash is locked up, their other investments have disappeared and their currency has dropped, they need to sell at any price and those are the folks that will convert their property into cash just to get liquid again. Tough for them but good for any buyers that are left and 50c on the dollar is all I would be offering take it or leave it, plenty more out there.

[Zstarx]

Thanks, I've got my eye on a house, price about 10.8m, I'm hoping to come over in August, I'm sure it wouldn't have sold by then, I'll ofer 6m and see what hap

Too much 6 million,offer 4.5 gives you leeway to go to 5 million,and August is good timing ,they will bite your hand off

and on top you will get the Ferrari, the 48' yacht and the stunning girlfriend for free (not two forget the sixteen cases of 97 year old Blue Label). i hope you chaps sleep on rubber sheets to protect your mattresses from the proceeds of your wet dreams.

What you are saying is absolutely correct, folks like you and I who have an investment here and have made the place our home don't need to sell our houses, doesn't matter to us if the so called market price is half or double what we paid, In the sphere of things the cost of a house is a small investment and we don't need the money now or tomorrow, but! Some folks are hurting, they built or bought a house or maybe two, kitted them out with swimming pools and furniture hoping to double their investment then along comes all manner of world and local problems and thier cash is locked up, their other investments have disappeared and their currency has dropped, they need to sell at any price and those are the folks that will convert their property into cash just to get liquid again. Tough for them but good for any buyers that are left and 50c on the dollar is all I would be offering take it or leave it, plenty more out there.

It's just going to be numbers game, right place right time, hopefully

[toenail]

I was wondering the same thing about the price of condos...how little to offer to the set price which hasn't changed with the economic and (now) political crisis. If I figure out how much I have spent on renting the past 5 years (I get a housing allowance with my job) , I could have bought a place. I once thought of retiring here...but that is on hold for sure. I am looking for a amall condo 40-50sq M for around 2Mil baht. I see many, many "new" ones in the works, but that scares me. What established ones close to the beach would be worth looking into? And what is the going price for older ones? View Talay must have a zillion for sale.

[jori]

You have virtually answered your own question,what is the set price?,obviously supply and demand comes into the equation,no demand no value,people are dumping their condos,writing them off.no maintenace charges being paid(now that is a worry)

I'm negotiating property purhase in Spain as I write,but I'm wondering if it's worth it,just outright dumping of property,distress sales all over,not the place for the faint hearted,but at least no visa issues,it will get to that extent here I'm sure in six months or so,probably a lot worse,anyway with 2 million your king of the castle,put an ad the Pattaya People newspaper,but use your second 'phones number,you'll be sick to death of answering it.

[Pattaya46]

Real Estate market must be dead.

It's not dead. I you put it at the price of the market you will sell/rent is.

Last example : In Center Condo, 80 sqm south corner, high floor, 4 Mbaht.

Set for sale begin of April. Sold after... only 3 weeks

So they are still buyers, yes ... if your price is correct.

[CHdiver]

Now Center Condo may be an Exception, because it has one of the best positions in Pattaya. Most things are in walking Distance

- Tucom if you are a Computer Geek

- Thai Market with Thaifood and that fresh smelling Fish

- Walking Street if you are into Girls

- Sunee Plazza if you are into Boys

- Wat Chai (spelling?) if you are religious, also nice if you should die, because they can cremate you there, safes you a lot of Transport costs

This list could go on and on........

[somtampet]

My house is worth 5 million,in my mind but you can have it for 2.9

[somtampet]

Now Center Condo may be an Exception, because it has one of the best positions in Pattaya. Most things are in walking Distance

- Tucom if you are a Computer Geek

- Thai Market with Thaifood and that fresh smelling Fish

- Walking Street if you are into Girls

- Sunee Plazza if you are into Boys

- Wat Chai (spelling?) if you are religious, also nice if you should die, because they can cremate you there, safes you a lot of Transport costs

This list could go on and on........

BTW centre condo i would call average

[jori]

If Centre Condo is the one I'm thinking about,the one with the swimming pool at the side I'd be quite sceptical about buying there,I'd say anywhere but there.The array of shops at the ground floor look as if it's skid row,and although it's a few months since I was there,there was more adverts for selling those flats plastering the windows of those shops,all for 2 and a half mil,sometimes wondered if any actully sold

[craigt3365]

Thanks, I've got my eye on a house, price about 10.8m, I'm hoping to come over in August, I'm sure it wouldn't have sold by then, I'll ofer 6m and see what hap

Too much 6 million,offer 4.5 gives you leeway to go to 5 million,and August is good timing ,they will bite your hand off

and on top you will get the Ferrari, the 48' yacht and the stunning girlfriend for free (not two forget the sixteen cases of 97 year old Blue Label). i hope you chaps sleep on rubber sheets to protect your mattresses from the proceeds of your wet dreams.

What you are saying is absolutely correct, folks like you and I who have an investment here and have made the place our home don't need to sell our houses, doesn't matter to us if the so called market price is half or double what we paid, In the sphere of things the cost of a house is a small investment and we don't need the money now or tomorrow, but! Some folks are hurting, they built or bought a house or maybe two, kitted them out with swimming pools and furniture hoping to double their investment then along comes all manner of world and local problems and thier cash is locked up, their other investments have disappeared and their currency has dropped, they need to sell at any price and those are the folks that will convert their property into cash just to get liquid again. Tough for them but good for any buyers that are left and 50c on the dollar is all I would be offering take it or leave it, plenty more out there.

Perfect. As you know, I got mine from a European investor (i.e. flipper) who had to sell...at 60c on the dollar. Worked out good for me, not so good for him. But what is happening in Pattaya is not much different from many places around the world. Spain, Western US, Ireland, etc. I was with several agents recently here in the US. Some from just north of Los Angeles and one just outside Las Vegas. Times are tough, prices are still dropping. And that is in a first world country! Same thing in Pattaya. Great time to buy. Property is limited, population is rising, RE prices (over time) always go up. As long as it is a good property, in the long run, it will be a good investment. If it is a poor property, in a poor location...you could have issues.

My Mother's house outside Vegas has dropped from $500k to maybe $350k if she had to sell. Huge drop. But no loss as long as you don't have to sell. And she doesn't. It's her home and she has NO interest in selling. The price will come up...though it may be many years....

I have friends who live in a condo south of Pattaya where there are literally no units for sale. I expressed interest for a friend and can't find one available. If there was one, and it was reasonably priced, it would sell immediately. Ocean view condos are hard to come by. Ones inland, next to Burmese labor camps, are a dine a dozen (like the one I use to rent!).

A home is a home...not just an investment...

[Pakboong]

Thanks, I've got my eye on a house, price about 10.8m, I'm hoping to come over in August, I'm sure it wouldn't have sold by then, I'll ofer 6m and see what hap

Too much 6 million,offer 4.5 gives you leeway to go to 5 million,and August is good timing ,they will bite your hand off

and on top you will get the Ferrari, the 48' yacht and the stunning girlfriend for free (not two forget the sixteen cases of 97 year old Blue Label). i hope you chaps sleep on rubber sheets to protect your mattresses from the proceeds of your wet dreams.

What you are saying is absolutely correct, folks like you and I who have an investment here and have made the place our home don't need to sell our houses, doesn't matter to us if the so called market price is half or double what we paid, In the sphere of things the cost of a house is a small investment and we don't need the money now or tomorrow, but! Some folks are hurting, they built or bought a house or maybe two, kitted them out with swimming pools and furniture hoping to double their investment then along comes all manner of world and local problems and thier cash is locked up, their other investments have disappeared and their currency has dropped, they need to sell at any price and those are the folks that will convert their property into cash just to get liquid again. Tough for them but good for any buyers that are left and 50c on the dollar is all I would be offering take it or leave it, plenty more out there.

Perfect. As you know, I got mine from a European investor (i.e. flipper) who had to sell...at 60c on the dollar. Worked out good for me, not so good for him. But what is happening in Pattaya is not much different from many places around the world. Spain, Western US, Ireland, etc. I was with several agents recently here in the US. Some from just north of Los Angeles and one just outside Las Vegas. Times are tough, prices are still dropping. And that is in a first world country! Same thing in Pattaya. Great time to buy. Property is limited, population is rising, RE prices (over time) always go up. As long as it is a good property, in the long run, it will be a good investment. If it is a poor property, in a poor location...you could have issues.

My Mother's house outside Vegas has dropped from $500k to maybe $350k if she had to sell. Huge drop. But no loss as long as you don't have to sell. And she doesn't. It's her home and she has NO interest in selling. The price will come up...though it may be many years....

I have friends who live in a condo south of Pattaya where there are literally no units for sale. I expressed interest for a friend and can't find one available. If there was one, and it was reasonably priced, it would sell immediately. Ocean view condos are hard to come by. Ones inland, next to Burmese labor camps, are a dine a dozen (like the one I use to rent!).

A home is a home...not just an investment...

http://www.businessinsider.com/thirteen-ho...oyment-is-132-1

Some of the "Experts" don't agree with you. Las Vegas is listed number two in the 13 housing markets that will never recover.

[craigt3365]

I learned a long time ago not to use absolutes like never...or always. Population is growing in the US and moving towards the South. Already, they are starting new housing developments here in Vegas...and they are selling. Inventory is starting to shrink. As soon as the unemployment numbers come down, things will recover. People need places to live, and it is still the American dream to own your own house.

My good friend in Central California, one of the worst RE areas in the world, has 3 properties in escrow right now. More than he has had at one time in many years. He is cautiously optimistic. And will have his best year this year since 2006. I was in his office last week and every desk was full with agents on the phone. First time I have seen that in years.

I am a real estate investor here in Vegas, so know the market fairly well. It will recover...but not for quite a few years. Prices are low, short sales are common...and a bitch to deal with...but sales are happening. A house just sold down our street...it was a short sale. Vegas was massively overbuilt...and massively over speculated. I remember when folks from California would come here and buy 10-20 houses at a crack (2004)! No wonder it crashed.

There are a few variables in the mix right now. Hopefully, the future will be bright. But the US and it's massive debt is a cloud looming over everything....

[jori]

You think Greece has a problem,the US leaves Greece standing,reputed to have 100% deficit now that is not belt tightening it's neck tightening with an extra length for that steam pipe above your head,the housing market will never recover to any effect,whole continents are bust,no jobs and what jobs are on offer are poorly paid,pension funds wiped out,whatever you thought your house was worth just try and find the buyer,...and as for those houses around Vegas I do not think I have every seen such unattractive monstrous houses,just endless boxes stacked side by side.

[craigt3365]

You think Greece has a problem,the US leaves Greece standing,reputed to have 100% deficit now that is not belt tightening it's neck tightening with an extra length for that steam pipe above your head,the housing market will never recover to any effect,whole continents are bust,no jobs and what jobs are on offer are poorly paid,pension funds wiped out,whatever you thought your house was worth just try and find the buyer,...and as for those houses around Vegas I do not think I have every seen such unattractive monstrous houses,just endless boxes stacked side by side.

Yeah, they are pretty sad examples of houses. I drive by them every time I am here visiting my Mom. I think over 2/3rds are empty.

But don't forget, the great depression was even worse...and things turned around after that. I doubt the whole world will go into a non-recoverable tail spin for eternity....that for sure has never happened....

Here is an interesting look at the future. Worth a read...but then, I am an optimist!

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/06/opinion/...s.html?emc=eta1

[Naam]

How can buying a property in Thailand be considered to be an investment when you can't own the land it stands on?

who says that buying property has to be an investment? some people buy property to live in and enjoy it.

[Naam]

You have virtually answered your own question,what is the set price?,obviously supply and demand comes into the equation,no demand no value,people are dumping their condos,writing them off.no maintenace charges being paid(now that is a worry)

I'm negotiating property purhase in Spain as I write,but I'm wondering if it's worth it,just outright dumping of property,distress sales all over,not the place for the faint hearted,but at least no visa issues,it will get to that extent here I'm sure in six months or so,probably a lot worse,anyway with 2 million your king of the castle,put an ad the Pattaya People newspaper,but use your second 'phones number,you'll be sick to death of answering it.

i'd say "with 2 million you are the king of a shack". but then... opinions differ

[Tejas]

You think Greece has a problem,the US leaves Greece standing,reputed to have 100% deficit now that is not belt tightening it's neck tightening with an extra length for that steam pipe above your head,the housing market will never recover to any effect,whole continents are bust,no jobs and what jobs are on offer are poorly paid,pension funds wiped out,whatever you thought your house was worth just try and find the buyer,...and as for those houses around Vegas I do not think I have every seen such unattractive monstrous houses,just endless boxes stacked side by side.

Yeah, they are pretty sad examples of houses. I drive by them every time I am here visiting my Mom. I think over 2/3rds are empty.

But don't forget, the great depression was even worse...and things turned around after that. I doubt the whole world will go into a non-recoverable tail spin for eternity....that for sure has never happened....

Here is an interesting look at the future. Worth a read...but then, I am an optimist!

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/06/opinion/...s.html?emc=eta1

The problem, from a historical perspective, is as follows:

1) population levels are grossly unsustainable and continue to grow (especially in the developing world)

2) economic globalization has failed

3) economic centralization has failed

4) too few quality jobs; too many people competing for them (labor supply problem)

5) our energy system is archaic (still based on non-renewable fossil fuels)

6) a global corporate-political-military triangle of power has formed (and they do not want positive change)

7) the global flow of information is being controlled by the ruling elite (those that stand at the top of the corporate-political-military triangle of power)

8) the global flow of information is teaching the masses what they need to know to exploit themselves and prevent positive change

It is the combination of the aforementioned problems that is unique.........it does not bode well for the human species.

[jori]

i'd say "with 2 million you are the king of a shack". but then... opinions differ laugh.gif

...and I'd say someone has a an over inflated estimate of just how much your property here in Thailand is now worth. 50 cents on the dollar ,no way I'd say 20 and even then personally I wouldn't take it on.

Breathtaking to read the full page ad in a realors magazine last month for a house here at a crossed out 22.5 now down to 20 mil,....hang on where's the checkbook?...the guy must be off his rocker,that same house in a year or so will be down in the 4 to 5 mil selling range,and that's even IF it can be sold

That guy has 2 mil to spend,which very soon at rate of progession will be buying your place if you now think it's in the 6 million Baht range,or a little longer (say another 3 months) if you think your place is in the 8 mil selling range at the moment

Edited May 24, 2010 by jori

[craigt3365]

i'd say "with 2 million you are the king of a shack". but then... opinions differ laugh.gif

...and I'd say someone has a an over inflated estimate of just how much your property here in Thailand is now worth. 50 cents on the dollar ,no way I'd say 20 and even then personally I wouldn't take it on.

Breathtaking to read the full page ad in a realors magazine last month for a house here at a crossed out 22.5 now down to 20 mil,....hang on where's the checkbook?...the guy must be off his rocker,that same house in a year or so will be down in the 4 to 5 mil selling range,and that's even IF it can be sold

That guy has 2 mil to spend,which very soon at rate of progession will be buying your place if you now think it's in the 6 million Baht range,or a little longer (say another 3 months) if you think your place is in the 8 mil selling range at the moment

I think we are all forgetting the impact of Thai's on the housing market. They are the main buyers in most places, outside the touristy cities (Samui, Phuket, etc.). They spend big bucks on properties and see the value. I was at a condo last month when a young Thai couple in a nice BMW drove up looking for a unit to buy (in the 10-15M Baht range). I am sure that was not just a once in a lifetime thing. We have many Thai's in our "village". Several who drive BMWs or MBs....and own multiple properties.

Doubt that 20 mil house will be 4/5 mil...but then we can dream, can't we? I guarantee I would buy it at that price!!!!

[toenail]

Does anyone know about the basic apartments that are on Thepprasit Rd, off from Sukhumvit Rd. near the weekend night market. I think the name is Ka-ha Apt. (sounds like in Thai) . My one Thai freind said there are some for sale there very reasonable. I am not looking for a high price one at the moment. Just something I put my rent in to own.

[jori]

I think we are all forgetting the impact of Thai's on the housing market. They are the main buyers in most places, outside the touristy cities (Samui, Phuket, etc.). They spend big bucks on properties and see the value. I was at a condo last month when a young Thai couple in a nice BMW drove up looking for a unit to buy (in the 10-15M Baht range). I am sure that was not just a once in a lifetime thing. We have many Thai's in our "village". Several who drive BMWs or MBs....and own multiple properties.

Doubt that 20 mil house will be 4/5 mil...but then we can dream, can't we? I guarantee I would buy it at that price!!!!

Funnily enough I too was observing that fact too quite a while ago,until it came down to exactly who the true owners were,yes it was the K bank,each and every time,not the fact it was on mortgage,morelike a re-possession,same with the BMWs etc at auction time,still it may have been a one off thing???

[SUPERIOR]

Lori Good post, i was just about to write something similar.