Thai Government Accuses Reds Over Huge Weapons Cache

[silverhawk_usa]

One of the first rules of evidence handling is to photograph the item as it is found, undisturbed. If this was done, the photos should be released and MAY add more credibility. If it was NOT done, it is definitely poor procedure and, unfortunately, adds fuel to the doubters arguments.

Agree, but not always possible. Some found while shooting was still going on. Would you stop to dust of a strange object, write a label and mark it?

Actually the items do not need to be photographed to establish a clear and unbroken chain of uncorrupted evidence. A correctly written statement and description of the evidence and where it was found by a crime scene examiner, which is then correctly signed and sealed and submitted is perfectly sufficient and uncorruptable evidence in a court. This CAN be done quickly and efficiently even in the most dangerous of situations, with the object dusted for fingerprints or examined under ultraviolet light (or any other forensic procedure) later - I have collected evidence in this way which has been used to convict rioters in UK.

Photographs, in this situation where sides do not trust each other, would perhaps be desirable but in waiting for a photographer to arrive at the scene there is a danger that any forensic evidence such as fingerprints or blood spatters would be corrupted in the ensuing melee so that immediate retrieval would be preferable to a photograph which would only show the position of the object - something which can adequently be covered in a description.

There will have to be a lot of test firing of the seized weapons to collect fired bullets and shell casings for comparison with bullets found in victims of shootings to see if any of these were used to kill people at Rajprasong.

I also have 23 years experience in law enforcement. I do not disagree with what you are saying. However, you must also agree that a photograph is preferable to support testimony. Testimony is also necessary to support a photograph. In this day of small digital cameras, calling in a photographer is not necessary, and the photographs would be accepted as supporting evidence. At least in my agency, I can think of very few times evidence would be picked up without someone taking the few seconds necessary to photograph it.

We shouldn't debate this as we are basically in agreement. Whatever evidence exists to support where these items were found or confiscated should be made available.

[nickupton]

Actually the items do not need to be photographed to establish a clear and unbroken chain of uncorrupted evidence. A correctly written statement and description of the evidence and where it was found by a crime scene examiner, which is then correctly signed and sealed and submitted is perfectly sufficient and uncorruptable evidence in a court.

are you sincerely talking about anything like this happening in Thailand ??

then i better stop writing !

I would probably think about something similar possible to happen in Zimbabwe, Haiti or Myanmar !

I Thailand, everything the government says, is absolutely correct, don't need to be proven or anything !

Well, that is how something is proven. At least that is how it is proven by New Scotland Yard, London. I am just relating what is the accepted standard for evidence retrieval rather than that which is acceptable by you.

But since you asked, no, I don't think that is what will have happened, but I think it will be out of incompetance rather than in any attempt to falsify evidence - there will be need to do that, there is plenty of real evidence around.

[rubl]

I also have 23 years experience in law enforcement. I do not disagree with what you are saying. However, you must also agree that a photograph is preferable to support testimony. Testimony is also necessary to support a photograph. In this day of small digital cameras, calling in a photographer is not necessary, and the photographs would be accepted as supporting evidence. At least in my agency, I can think of very few times evidence would be picked up without someone taking the few seconds necessary to photograph it.

We shouldn't debate this as we are basically in agreement. Whatever evidence exists to support where these items were found or confiscated should be made available.

Theoretically you both may be right, but the troops have (luckily) no experience in this. The objective was to clear the site, capture any ammunition and the like, and hopefully with a minimum of casualties. Non of the troops had any education in the niceties of law. This is Thailand, still lots to do.

Edited May 23, 2010 by rubl

[whybother]

what about showing all those "found weapons", where and when they were, found to the media ??

but it's a lot easier to transport them from any army depot to a neutral place and just telling where they had been "found" !

with all those weapons the reds would have killed quite a few soldiers and police, - funny enough there were only 17 reds killed and more then 100 wounded !

just another "Thai miracle"

Apparently, there was media present when a lot of the weapons were found.

[whybother]

how many videos you want to see about the reason for them coming to protest ?

storming and ransacking government building by the yellows, storming and demolioshing the airports , but "that was no act of terrorism, "that was just fun" - and since those are the words of the (now ) foreign minister, everything is ok !

The airport was not demolished. There is no need to lie in order to make a point.

And how does the illegal acts of the PAD, for which the court cases are ongoing, in any way justify the redshirt actions? You cannot decry one and condone the other.

For the record, they were both bad, but the redshirt actions were many orders of magnitude more violent and destructive than the PAD actions. But this

the airport authorities claimed 327 mill bt in damages, do you call that "improvement"??

the government building had over 200 mill damages

there are no cases against any yellow shirts ongoing, how else could the leader of Suva occupation give his tv-interview : " that was real fun", and now be foreign minister ??

and yes, the reds, or someone connected or not with them, have been responsible for a lot of fires..,

but that still does not give the government the right to shoot at them, and regardless if Seh Daeng was involved in any of those actions or not, there is no legality to shoot to kill him in the middle of international reporters!

The airport opened less than 2 days after the protestors left. Please provide ANY evidence that there was damage at the airport. Even anything documented that says there was damage would do for a start.

Edited May 23, 2010 by whybother

[way2muchcoffee]

deleted

Edited May 23, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[KhaoNiaw]

I just find it odd so many weapons are found, why didn't they use them on the final day, they were being shot at with live rounds, I just wonder why there were no heavy Army losses if the Reds were so well armed, if I had an AK47 I wouldn't be using a slingshot or a stick.

The armed Red in this BBC video was using his gun on the last day:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8691486.stm

[Skywalker69]

The True reds Started off By peaceful means, Then I think the hard line took the opportunity to cause mayhem, And some people just jumped on the Bandwagon because they like anarchy, I think the Thai government showed great restraint, There was never going to be any Winners.

No they didn't start off peacefully, there were threats of arson and murder before they began. Can't believe you still haven't seen this video.

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4M9XiJoWSSs&hl=en_GB&fs=1&"></param><param'>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4M9XiJoWSSs&hl=en_GB&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4M9XiJoWSSs&hl=en_GB&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

youtube provided from above.

Thanks for providing the video link that I managed to cock up.

It, and others like it, were just played by government on Thai TV to provide evidence that there was a preplanned plot to loot and burn. They also played the extension to this video where Arisman goes on to PROMISE attacks on many of the buildings that were attacked as well as the intent to burn all mosques and Siriraj hospital, which thankfully were not attacked.

He also tells the crowd that the reds are supported by an armed military wing - a clear link is established between the reds and an armed force in that video clip. I guess this armed wing he referred to were only armed with fireworks?

Other red leaders also encourage looting and arson on video.

I believe that these videos would be convicting evidence of incitement to violence, arson and theft in any independent court, one could argue that the violence and arson constitutes a terrorist plot.

The Bastad also said: "Burn down Bangkok I will take full responsability"

[shrekroma]

The Reds should have grabbed RPG, WMD, or the nuke. Then they can match up the army.

The greatest weapon Red invented is a big full spicy som-tom in a big mother gigantic plastic bag.

Comeon people. The Reds got some guns, sling shot, homemade bomb.

Yeah !@ So what !!???

Do you think THAT can counter military ???????

Seeing APC carrier blast into their camp with sniper ob rooftop.

I wish Reds should have had F22 rapter. So that can be a even fight.

No somtom allow in cockpit BTW.

..

..

[Skywalker69]

how many videos you want to see about the reason for them coming to protest ?

storming and ransacking government building by the yellows, storming and demolioshing the airports , but "that was no act of terrorism, "that was just fun" - and since those are the words of the (now ) foreign minister, everything is ok !

The airport was not demolished. There is no need to lie in order to make a point.

And how does the illegal acts of the PAD, for which the court cases are ongoing, in any way justify the redshirt actions? You cannot decry one and condone the other.

For the record, they were both bad, but the redshirt actions were many orders of magnitude more violent and destructive than the PAD actions. But this

the airport authorities claimed 327 mill bt in damages, do you call that "improvement"??

the government building had over 200 mill damages

there are no cases against any yellow shirts ongoing, how else could the leader of Suva occupation give his tv-interview : " that was real fun", and now be foreign minister ??

and yes, the reds, or someone connected or not with them, have been responsible for a lot of fires..,

but that still does not give the government the right to shoot at them, and regardless if Seh Daeng was involved in any of those actions or not, there is no legality to shoot to kill him in the middle of international reporters!

Before Seh Daeng was shot, he had a quarrel with the red leaders saying som of them were to moderate....threatening to take over the leadership of the reds. So It´s not proven ho shut him.

[silverhawk_usa]

I also have 23 years experience in law enforcement. I do not disagree with what you are saying. However, you must also agree that a photograph is preferable to support testimony. Testimony is also necessary to support a photograph. In this day of small digital cameras, calling in a photographer is not necessary, and the photographs would be accepted as supporting evidence. At least in my agency, I can think of very few times evidence would be picked up without someone taking the few seconds necessary to photograph it.

We shouldn't debate this as we are basically in agreement. Whatever evidence exists to support where these items were found or confiscated should be made available.

Theoretically you both may be right, but the troops have (luckily) no experience in this. The objective was to clear the site, capture any ammunition and the like, and hopefully with a minimum of casualties. Non of the troops had any education in the niceties of law. This is Thailand, still lots to do.

Again, I mostly agree. Many of the items have been found after the situation was stabilized (which what I based my initial post on. Obviously not clearly enough).

Khunying Pornthip Rojanasunand, the noted Thai forensic specialist is processing some of the scenes. I think she is capable and respected enough for her findings to be considered credible.

Don't get my stated opinion wrong. I am not taking sides or attempting to discredit anyone. I only hope evidence found can be proven and aid in eliminating some of the myriad theories and personal opinions not based on fact. I know, wishful thinking.

[whybother]

The Reds should have grabbed RPG, WMD, or the nuke. Then they can match up the army.

The greatest weapon Red invented is a big full spicy som-tom in a big mother gigantic plastic bag.

Comeon people. The Reds got some guns, sling shot, homemade bomb.

Yeah !@ So what !!???

Do you think THAT can counter military ???????

Seeing APC carrier blast into their camp with sniper ob rooftop.

I wish Reds should have had F22 rapter. So that can be a even fight.

No somtom allow in cockpit BTW.

What are "peaceful protestors" trying to do "countering" the military?

Why did they have ANY weapons, particularly high powered rifles, grenades, and RPGs?

[whatsupdoc]

how many videos you want to see about the reason for them coming to protest ?

storming and ransacking government building by the yellows, storming and demolioshing the airports , but "that was no act of terrorism, "that was just fun" - and since those are the words of the (now ) foreign minister, everything is ok !

The airport was not demolished. There is no need to lie in order to make a point.

And how does the illegal acts of the PAD, for which the court cases are ongoing, in any way justify the redshirt actions? You cannot decry one and condone the other.

For the record, they were both bad, but the redshirt actions were many orders of magnitude more violent and destructive than the PAD actions. But this

the airport authorities claimed 327 mill bt in damages, do you call that "improvement"??

the government building had over 200 mill damages

there are no cases against any yellow shirts ongoing, how else could the leader of Suva occupation give his tv-interview : " that was real fun", and now be foreign minister ??

and yes, the reds, or someone connected or not with them, have been responsible for a lot of fires..,

but that still does not give the government the right to shoot at them, and regardless if Seh Daeng was involved in any of those actions or not, there is no legality to shoot to kill him in the middle of international reporters!

Before Seh Daeng was shot, he had a quarrel with the red leaders saying som of them were to moderate....threatening to take over the leadership of the reds. So It´s not proven ho shut him.

In addition, there are court cases ongoing against the yellow shirt leaders (but they move very slow) and the current FM was not a core leader of the yellows

[Thai at Heart]

I also have 23 years experience in law enforcement. I do not disagree with what you are saying. However, you must also agree that a photograph is preferable to support testimony. Testimony is also necessary to support a photograph. In this day of small digital cameras, calling in a photographer is not necessary, and the photographs would be accepted as supporting evidence. At least in my agency, I can think of very few times evidence would be picked up without someone taking the few seconds necessary to photograph it.

We shouldn't debate this as we are basically in agreement. Whatever evidence exists to support where these items were found or confiscated should be made available.

Theoretically you both may be right, but the troops have (luckily) no experience in this. The objective was to clear the site, capture any ammunition and the like, and hopefully with a minimum of casualties. Non of the troops had any education in the niceties of law. This is Thailand, still lots to do.

Again, I mostly agree. Many of the items have been found after the situation was stabilized (which what I based my initial post on. Obviously not clearly enough).

Khunying Pornthip Rojanasunand, the noted Thai forensic specialist is processing some of the scenes. I think she is capable and respected enough for her findings to be considered credible.

Don't get my stated opinion wrong. I am not taking sides or attempting to discredit anyone. I only hope evidence found can be proven and aid in eliminating some of the myriad theories and personal opinions not based on fact. I know, wishful thinking.

Would this be the same Porntip?

The government would investigate whether there were irregularities in the purchases of 818 GT200 detectors, he said. The device is used by the army, the air force, police force, the Customs Department and the Central Institute of Forensic Science.

Khunying Porntip Rojanasunan, of the Central Institute of Forensic Science, and the army yesterday opted to continue using the device.

Khunying Porntip said her institute had found the device effective.

"I've said GT200 is not a scientific device." she said.

"Its efficiency also relies on human interactions. The institute has found it effective as a supplementary device."

http://sniffexquestions.blogspot.com/

If she could only get one of those things to point which direction Thaksin is in the world.

[rabo]

you should view this video on the youtube site and see the hatred being spewed forth by the red supporters in the comments section

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4M9XiJoWSSs...player_embedded

there are comments on there that cannot be reproduced here for reasons that will be obvious

on purely moral grounds they are disgusting allegations to make

however i urge you to read them and think about what some reds think this protest was all about.

Hi Blackman, ithere are only a small number of such comments. Although the content is Thai, the style and language is the best (worst) the West has to offer. Such comments might also come from the red damage control center, where ever that might be.

Point taken, but I don't see this as representing a large undercurrent in Thai society.

Edited May 23, 2010 by rabo

[rubl]

Before Seh Daeng was shot, he had a quarrel with the red leaders saying som of them were to moderate....threatening to take over the leadership of the reds. So It´s not proven ho shut him.

Seh Daeng said about a week ago, that in a talk with K. Thaksin, he and three other UDD leaders were to take over from the 'less militant' ones. How this renegade general got to be an UDD leader I don't know. As a red-shirt I would be offended. Who shot him we'll probably never know. Still trying to figure out the JFK case.

[hammered]

Do not be so quick to jump to conclusions, the Goverment was under pressure from outside countrys and the United Nations.

It needed to show the Reds in a bad light,to jusify the shooting of people with bamboo sticks by soldiers with assault rifles and shotguns.

if the Reds had all these weapons why did they not use them?

A little too convenient I think.

Uh... duh... they did! The fact they didn't use all the munitions was cos they were cached and not within reach at the blockade walls! And there weren't that many bullets found thus they ran out of ammo!!! What - you think the rifles and automatic weapons they collected were straight out of the box? (sigh)

Indeed. There does seem to be a lack of understanding of how weapons and ammo are used and that is before we get into the increasingly believed story that the police helped a bunch of the balck shirts to get out before the crackdown. They wouldnt exaclty be poncing around dawn BKK in balck uniforms with grenade launchers and M16s hanging off their nose rings for all and sundry to see.

Aside form that ther is plernty of evidence that the reds were a highly artmed violent group willing to use the weapons. Even Al Jazeera and BBC have shown this and sopme have even stressed that the BBC shwoing aremd red foighters shooting at troops proved the BBC was not naively painting the reds as a peaceful protest group in the kind of uninformed western reporting ridiculed by Not the Nation yesterday (I bet you wont see the denizons of blogosphry such as NM and BP mention that little Not the Nation classic as it doesnt fit at all with their own personal site biases although I can understand the commercvail reasons for censorship by omission as you wouldnt want to drive your blog traffic away and lose a few extra cents)

[OzMick]

Anyone who thinks the protesters were unarmed can easily test their conspiracy theory - go down to Rama IV and ask some of the residents if they were unarmed.

@Deeral: Allow me to propose a definition of 'terrorist' for you to ponder: Anyone who launches grenades, shoots at the residents and burns down the buildings in our neighbourhood is a terrorist. We couldn't give a rats arse about their political views.

Honestly there are some boneheads around here.

Please enlighten us with some examples with where PURELY PEACEFUL mobs were able to effect change in their countries. If you can find a couple western examples... that would be great. Now try it in Asia. There were peaceful protests in Malaysia and Myanmar in recent years resulting in a rather sophisticated and largely bloodless crackdown (Malaysia), and a massacre (Myanmar). This isn't the west, so quit measuring the tactics and rationale protesters use with your own. And look back a ways into your own history and think about how change was ever effected in your government through demonstrations. Until the army came to Bangkok, there wasn't loss of life. If the government had enforced rule of law from the beginning, the protests wouldn't have happened.

The last 2 posts of yours would make great fertilizer. another for the IGNORE.

[Mamuang16]

Statement by Phue Thai Party regarding the alleged discovery of war weapon at assembly site

Reference is made to the government and CRES's press conference and statement that there has been discovery and collection of numerous war weapons from the UDD and the protesters in Rachaprasong area.

Phue Thai Party wishes to state that the statement made by the government is predictable and is what the Party has all along anticipated that the government is trying to justify the violent crackdown on the peaceful protest by heavily armed soldiers with war weapon. The government is trying to paint the picture that the protesters possessed weapon and are terrorists. The said statement by the government and the CRES is contrary to the facts and reasons as follows:

1. The core leaders of the UDD had, on rally stage, publicly told the protesters on the night prior to the 19th of May 2010 that there had been discussion in the CRES's meeting that war weapons should be planted at the rally site to implicate and incriminate the protesters that they used offensive war weapon. The anticipation and prediction of the UDD leaders mysteriously and suspiciously becomes a reality.

2. If the protesters had had those war weapons, why they had not used them on the previous days and on the day on which they were cracked down violently by the soldiers? Why did they leave those weapons unused?

3. The protesters had known in advance of the potential crackdown and dispersal and had anticipated that the government would try to use the weapons to implicate them in the terrorist charges. It goes against logic that the protesters would have left those weapons behind.

4. The UDD had taken the journalists, local and foreign, to inspect and examine the rally site for weapon and none was found.

5. Since the beginning of the protest on March 12, 2010, over sixty people died, four of which are government officers and the rest are civilians. None of the dead civilians had weapon.

6. The search and discovery of weapons was one-sidedly conducted by the government after the crackdown and dispersal of the protest and was not witnessed by neutral party.

7. No fingerprints are collected to collect evidence in accordance with the forensic science.

Phue Thai Party is extremely concerned about the fact that the government and the CRES are trying to use the weapons allegedly discovered to justify and incriminate the protesters as terrorists despite the fact that the government's conclusion and theory are contrary to the facts and reasons as stated above. We hereby urge and call upon the government to investigate and examine the cases fairly and straightforwardly.

Edited May 23, 2010 by Mamuang16

[rubl]

Statement by Phue Thai Party regarding the alleged discovery of war weapon at assembly site

Reference is made to the government and CRES's press conference and statement that there has been discovery and collection of numerous war weapons from the UDD and the protesters in Rachaprasong area.

Phue Thai Party wishes to state that the statement made by the government is predictable and is what the Party has all along anticipated that the government is trying to justify the violent crackdown on the peaceful protest by heavily armed soldiers with war weapon. The government is trying to paint the picture that the protesters possessed weapon and are terrorists. The said statement by the government and the CRES is contrary to the facts and reasons as follows:

1. The core leaders of the UDD had, on rally stage, publicly told the protesters on the night prior to the 19th of May 2010 that there had been discussion in the CRES's meeting that war weapons should be planted at the rally site to implicate and incriminate the protesters that they used offensive war weapon. The anticipation and prediction of the UDD leaders mysteriously and suspiciously becomes a reality.

2. If the protesters had had those war weapons, why they had not used them on the previous days and on the day on which they were cracked down violently by the soldiers? Why did they leave those weapons unused?

3. The protesters had known in advance of the potential crackdown and dispersal and had anticipated that the government would try to use the weapons to implicate them in the terrorist charges. It goes against logic that the protesters would have left those weapons behind.

4. The UDD had taken the journalists, local and foreign, to inspect and examine the rally site for weapon and none was found.

5. Since the beginning of the protest on March 12, 2010, over sixty people died, four of which are government officers and the rest are civilians. None of the dead civilians had weapon.

6. The search and discovery of weapons was one-sidedly conducted by the government after the crackdown and dispersal of the protest and was not witnessed by neutral party.

7. No fingerprints are collected to collect evidence in accordance with the forensic science.

Phue Thai Party is extremely concerned about the fact that the government and the CRES are trying to use the weapons allegedly discovered to justify and incriminate the protesters as terrorists despite the fact that the government's conclusion and theory are contrary to the facts and reasons as stated above. We hereby urge and call upon the government to investigate and examine the cases fairly and straightforwardly.

PTP is extremely concerned they may not be able to doctor evidence convincingly in time for the no-confidence debate. In history of the last 100 years, many times journalists were invited to see for themselves all is rozy-peachy. Remember 'Arbeit macht frei'. Russian reds tried the same trick accusing (this time) innocent Nazi's of the Katyn massacre, and used obfuscation to highlight the Khatyn which was indeed a Nazi atrocity.

[lannarebirth]

Statement by Phue Thai Party regarding the alleged discovery of war weapon at assembly site

Reference is made to the government and CRES's press conference and statement that there has been discovery and collection of numerous war weapons from the UDD and the protesters in Rachaprasong area.

Phue Thai Party wishes to state that the statement made by the government is predictable and is what the Party has all along anticipated that the government is trying to justify the violent crackdown on the peaceful protest by heavily armed soldiers with war weapon. The government is trying to paint the picture that the protesters possessed weapon and are terrorists. The said statement by the government and the CRES is contrary to the facts and reasons as follows:

1. The core leaders of the UDD had, on rally stage, publicly told the protesters on the night prior to the 19th of May 2010 that there had been discussion in the CRES's meeting that war weapons should be planted at the rally site to implicate and incriminate the protesters that they used offensive war weapon. The anticipation and prediction of the UDD leaders mysteriously and suspiciously becomes a reality.

2. If the protesters had had those war weapons, why they had not used them on the previous days and on the day on which they were cracked down violently by the soldiers? Why did they leave those weapons unused?

3. The protesters had known in advance of the potential crackdown and dispersal and had anticipated that the government would try to use the weapons to implicate them in the terrorist charges. It goes against logic that the protesters would have left those weapons behind.

4. The UDD had taken the journalists, local and foreign, to inspect and examine the rally site for weapon and none was found.

5. Since the beginning of the protest on March 12, 2010, over sixty people died, four of which are government officers and the rest are civilians. None of the dead civilians had weapon.

6. The search and discovery of weapons was one-sidedly conducted by the government after the crackdown and dispersal of the protest and was not witnessed by neutral party.

7. No fingerprints are collected to collect evidence in accordance with the forensic science.

Phue Thai Party is extremely concerned about the fact that the government and the CRES are trying to use the weapons allegedly discovered to justify and incriminate the protesters as terrorists despite the fact that the government's conclusion and theory are contrary to the facts and reasons as stated above. We hereby urge and call upon the government to investigate and examine the cases fairly and straightforwardly.

Yeah, it's bullshit rhetoric. What the PTP might do if it were sincere is use the Royal Thai police, which it controls nearly absolutely, and prove that the government is lying or prove that the weapons were planted. They have the whole police force at their disposal to do so. My guess is this is the one and only bullet in their gun. Rhetoric.

[OzMick]

what about showing all those "found weapons", where and when they were, found to the media ??

but it's a lot easier to transport them from any army depot to a neutral place and just telling where they had been "found" !

with all those weapons the reds would have killed quite a few soldiers and police, - funny enough there were only 17 reds killed and more then 100 wounded !

just another "Thai miracle"

"A rabble is no more an army than a pile of building materials is a house." Socrates about 3000 years ago and still true. Give the village idiot an AK47 and throw him into a combat situation and he'll hit just about anything OTHER than what he was aiming at. Add to that the soldiers having bullet proof vests, helmets and a modicum of training on how to shoot without being shot (Army 101), and the stats come out about right.

[OzMick]

Statement by Phue Thai Party regarding the alleged discovery of war weapon at assembly site

Reference is made to the government and CRES's press conference and statement that there has been discovery and collection of numerous war weapons from the UDD and the protesters in Rachaprasong area.

Phue Thai Party wishes to state that the statement made by the government is predictable and is what the Party has all along anticipated that the government is trying to justify the violent crackdown on the peaceful protest by heavily armed soldiers with war weapon. The government is trying to paint the picture that the protesters possessed weapon and are terrorists. The said statement by the government and the CRES is contrary to the facts and reasons as follows:

1. The core leaders of the UDD had, on rally stage, publicly told the protesters on the night prior to the 19th of May 2010 that there had been discussion in the CRES's meeting that war weapons should be planted at the rally site to implicate and incriminate the protesters that they used offensive war weapon. The anticipation and prediction of the UDD leaders mysteriously and suspiciously becomes a reality.

2. If the protesters had had those war weapons, why they had not used them on the previous days and on the day on which they were cracked down violently by the soldiers? Why did they leave those weapons unused?

3. The protesters had known in advance of the potential crackdown and dispersal and had anticipated that the government would try to use the weapons to implicate them in the terrorist charges. It goes against logic that the protesters would have left those weapons behind.

4. The UDD had taken the journalists, local and foreign, to inspect and examine the rally site for weapon and none was found.

5. Since the beginning of the protest on March 12, 2010, over sixty people died, four of which are government officers and the rest are civilians. None of the dead civilians had weapon.

6. The search and discovery of weapons was one-sidedly conducted by the government after the crackdown and dispersal of the protest and was not witnessed by neutral party.

7. No fingerprints are collected to collect evidence in accordance with the forensic science.

Phue Thai Party is extremely concerned about the fact that the government and the CRES are trying to use the weapons allegedly discovered to justify and incriminate the protesters as terrorists despite the fact that the government's conclusion and theory are contrary to the facts and reasons as stated above. We hereby urge and call upon the government to investigate and examine the cases fairly and straightforwardly.

What did you expect them to say; "Fair cop, we're all nicked!"? Tomorrow they will have a statement about an apparent rash of spontaneous combustion in Thailand, or maybe it was lightning causing all those fires.

It doesn't matter what they say, the Thais that I have spoken too are disgusted at the aftermath of the rally. IMO, PTP are facing annihilation in the next election, especially if some anti-vote-buying checks can be set up.

[shrekroma]

The Reds should have grabbed RPG, WMD, or the nuke. Then they can match up the army.

The greatest weapon Red invented is a big full spicy som-tom in a big mother gigantic plastic bag.

Comeon people. The Reds got some guns, sling shot, homemade bomb.

Yeah !@ So what !!???

Do you think THAT can counter military ???????

Seeing APC carrier blast into their camp with sniper ob rooftop.

I wish Reds should have had F22 rapter. So that can be a even fight.

No somtom allow in cockpit BTW.

What are "peaceful protestors" trying to do "countering" the military?

Why did they have ANY weapons, particularly high powered rifles, grenades, and RPGs?

You see this Gov use sniper to shoot its own citizen. And yet you'r thinking this protest should be peaceful.

The black militants certainly have sth related to Reds. But that doesnt give Gov a right to shoot people -medic, journalist, media etc.

How do you decide who are terrorists who are just a 'peace' red ?

And because this Gov doesn't hold any legitimacy to lots of lots of people.

Do you expect protesters to get out of the area because the Gov said so ????

Since this Gov start to think ANY persons involved with Reds or Thaksin ( there he comes again ) are subject to be terminated by any necessary means, it turns into a complete dictatorial military-backup machine.

The weapon shown on TV, in fact, gives 2 aspects.

1. Reds or black or hardcore red or whatever are terrorists.

2 Gov set it up.

In all, that means nothing except to fuel a pro Gov camp to hate Reds even more.

[hammered]

Statement by Phue Thai Party regarding the alleged discovery of war weapon at assembly site

Reference is made to the government and CRES's press conference and statement that there has been discovery and collection of numerous war weapons from the UDD and the protesters in Rachaprasong area.

Phue Thai Party wishes to state that the statement made by the government is predictable and is what the Party has all along anticipated that the government is trying to justify the violent crackdown on the peaceful protest by heavily armed soldiers with war weapon. The government is trying to paint the picture that the protesters possessed weapon and are terrorists. The said statement by the government and the CRES is contrary to the facts and reasons as follows:

1. The core leaders of the UDD had, on rally stage, publicly told the protesters on the night prior to the 19th of May 2010 that there had been discussion in the CRES's meeting that war weapons should be planted at the rally site to implicate and incriminate the protesters that they used offensive war weapon. The anticipation and prediction of the UDD leaders mysteriously and suspiciously becomes a reality.

2. If the protesters had had those war weapons, why they had not used them on the previous days and on the day on which they were cracked down violently by the soldiers? Why did they leave those weapons unused?

3. The protesters had known in advance of the potential crackdown and dispersal and had anticipated that the government would try to use the weapons to implicate them in the terrorist charges. It goes against logic that the protesters would have left those weapons behind.

4. The UDD had taken the journalists, local and foreign, to inspect and examine the rally site for weapon and none was found.

5. Since the beginning of the protest on March 12, 2010, over sixty people died, four of which are government officers and the rest are civilians. None of the dead civilians had weapon.

6. The search and discovery of weapons was one-sidedly conducted by the government after the crackdown and dispersal of the protest and was not witnessed by neutral party.

7. No fingerprints are collected to collect evidence in accordance with the forensic science.

Phue Thai Party is extremely concerned about the fact that the government and the CRES are trying to use the weapons allegedly discovered to justify and incriminate the protesters as terrorists despite the fact that the government's conclusion and theory are contrary to the facts and reasons as stated above. We hereby urge and call upon the government to investigate and examine the cases fairly and straightforwardly.

In denial and furthering the objectives of Thaksin. Wonder if Amsterdam wrote this.

[rubl]

The Reds should have grabbed RPG, WMD, or the nuke. Then they can match up the army.

The greatest weapon Red invented is a big full spicy som-tom in a big mother gigantic plastic bag.

Comeon people. The Reds got some guns, sling shot, homemade bomb.

Yeah !@ So what !!???

Do you think THAT can counter military ???????

Seeing APC carrier blast into their camp with sniper ob rooftop.

I wish Reds should have had F22 rapter. So that can be a even fight.

No somtom allow in cockpit BTW.

What are "peaceful protestors" trying to do "countering" the military?

Why did they have ANY weapons, particularly high powered rifles, grenades, and RPGs?

You see this Gov use sniper to shoot its own citizen. And yet you'r thinking this protest should be peaceful.

The black militants certainly have sth related to Reds. But that doesnt give Gov a right to shoot people -medic, journalist, media etc.

How do you decide who are terrorists who are just a 'peace' red ?

And because this Gov doesn't hold any legitimacy to lots of lots of people.

Do you expect protesters to get out of the area because the Gov said so ????

Since this Gov start to think ANY persons involved with Reds or Thaksin ( there he comes again ) are subject to be terminated by any necessary means, it turns into a complete dictatorial military-backup machine.

The weapon shown on TV, in fact, gives 2 aspects.

1. Reds or black or hardcore red or whatever are terrorists.

2 Gov set it up.

In all, that means nothing except to fuel a pro Gov camp to hate Reds even more.

I admire your logic, brilliant. Wouldn't help you through university though.

[rubl]

Statement by Phue Thai Party regarding the alleged discovery of war weapon at assembly site

blabla ... no need to rpeat all of this ... blabla

In denial and furthering the objectives of Thaksin. Wonder if Amsterdam wrote this.

The English of PTP statements has improved. Help from RobertA may explain their proficiency.

[CHdiver]

I slowly get the Impression that the Government himself organized the Protest.

[lannarebirth]

I slowly get the Impression that the Government himself organized the Protest.

You're not the only one. The characters are drawn very well.

[mazeltov]

Anyone who thinks the protesters were unarmed can easily test their conspiracy theory - go down to Rama IV and ask some of the residents if they were unarmed.

@Deeral: Allow me to propose a definition of 'terrorist' for you to ponder: Anyone who launches grenades, shoots at the residents and burns down the buildings in our neighbourhood is a terrorist. We couldn't give a rats arse about their political views.

Honestly there are some boneheads around here.

Sure, some of the red shirts were armed, but it was not an armed movement. The majority of the people there did NOT have weapons of war. However, seeing as how the government and the army spokespeople are now dictating the news (and presenting evidence after they deem areas 'safe' and let journalists in), I'm sure we can all rest assured that they are using only the truth to legitimize their own deadly use of force. The Thaivisa children know that authority figures, especially in SE Asia MUST be believed, because to do otherwise is to risk deportation or worse.

Where do you people come from that believe the likes of the government and the military? Do you hold the same esteem for these institutions back home? Even the red apologists here don't defend Thaksin as an honest source of information. You can hate the reds all you want... that's a matter of opinion, but to believe all that the establishment has to say is irresponsible and foolish. Support the government if you wish, but accept statements from the army as gospel? Shame on you!

Good reply!

The blind trust in the authorities is unbelievable.