Thai Government Accuses Reds Over Huge Weapons Cache

[jackspratt]

As is the denial of readily available, and widely distributed evidence from neutral sources.

[Insight]

I slowly get the Impression that the Government himself organized the Protest.

You're not the only one. The characters are drawn very well.

Can't say I follow...?

[lannarebirth]

I slowly get the Impression that the Government himself organized the Protest.

You're not the only one. The characters are drawn very well.

Can't say I follow...?

It has all the components of a classical drama. Arch villians, "golden" heroes, palace intrigues, power brokers, secrets. I was only speaking in a general way. You couldn't make it up, not even a Thai person could.

[chadintheusa]

As is the denial of readily available, and widely distributed evidence from neutral sources.

If you were a red supporter you wouldn't believe in neutral sources, either you blindly believe their leaders, or you are a tool of the government.

Of course they were armed, plenty of terrorist organizations have a militant wing and a political wing, both striving for the same goals.

It's a joke when they try to portray the armed militants as a completely separate entity, they lived among the reds and participated in their protests.

Not every red needed to be armed, but enough were that the actions taken by the military were necessary. We saw on April 10 what happens to

soldiers armed with batons and shields.

[Robby nz]

Been reading all the posts on this thread and keep coming across referance to all the lies the Govt and PM have been telling, It is easy to see the reds lies but I seem to have missed all the Govt lies.

Perhaps someone could point me to links that show all these Govt, and Army for that matter, lies.

There were reporters present when some of the weapons were found, saw it on Thai TV.

Why would the Govt try to make the reds look worse they have done a great job of making themselves look bad as shown in many videos, few of them have been shy in front of the camera and have dug their own graves with their mouthes.

FYI there were 411 troops and police wounded some very seriously, there are pics on U-tube of soldiers with their arms almost blown off by grenades, not a pretty sight

[Insight]

FYI there were 411 troops and police wounded some very seriously, there are pics on U-tube of soldiers with their arms almost blown off by grenades, not a pretty sight

Thanks for that stat. If the number of people injured were around 1,000, this would mean a third to a half of them were military personnel.

[TAWP]

Unarmed Reds, Amnesty International decrying the treatment of the poor innocents - BS, pure BS. Armed militants who should be treated as enemy combatants, if shown to have participated in a violent way.

I am hoping some of the apologists here that screamed about 'innocent murdered' and 'unarmed civilians' wake up too...

[TAWP]

Not exactly a lot of dead soldiers are there ??

Either the reds were lousy marksmen or most of them were not using firearms.

Just so you know, during the Vietnam war the ratio of bullets fired to enemy soldiers killed was around 65000:1 for the american troops.

That is 65 000 rounds of ammo fired for every confirmed kill.

The reasons are several, but to claim that untrained individual would be able to kill many soldiers over long distances is action-movie thinking. However, they would be able to injure soldiers (that luckily were heavily protected) and pose a great threat to both army and truly innocent individuals.

[TAWP]

Unarmed Reds, Amnesty International decrying the treatment of the poor innocents - BS, pure BS. Armed militants who should be treated as enemy combatants, if shown to have participated in a violent way.

Amnesty International are a total disgrace.

Trashing their reputation.

The last two years (and we are not just talking about Thailand here) have been an embarrassment.

This is a stupid comment.......The fact is there were innocent women and children at the protest site and Amnesty were completely correct to point this out. An embarrassment??? Maybe from the Ultra Right point of view. Another fact is AI are all the world has against the wealthy aggressor wheather that be Thaksin, The Thai Army, the US or the UK marching around the world in persuit of WMD/OIL and POWER. Please! People are not idiots.....

Did anyone of these innocent women and children die at the hands of the government troops through any deliberate actions?

[Ulysses G.]

Another fact is AI are all the world has against the wealthy aggressor wheather that be Thaksin, The Thai Army, the US or the UK marching around the world in persuit of WMD/OIL and POWER. Please! People are not idiots.....

This post suggests otherwise.

[TAWP]

I find it convenient that all these weapons of mass destruction were found.

Has anyone wondered why they were not used?

Smells a bit fishy.

Dont be so stupid !!!!! who said the guns were not used? God give me strength against idiots like you.

The useful idiots and human shields (the peasants) were mostly only armed with homemade weapons, but the military wing (former soldiers) were armed to the teeth with automatic rifles and grenade launchers and there is plenty of evidence of this on film. It seems that the poor were used as cannon fodder by their leaders.

Indeed.

The military wing used the indoctrinated (I don't think anyone want to claim that weeks of speeches while living in the camp didn't affect even the normal people, especially since they since they are there on their own accord in large) masses to hide behind. While the rabble use their improvise weapons, fueled only by promises of a better life and that they are a part of a revolution, the military wing of UDD try to carry out targeted killings, try to provoke the military to over-react and might even have been involved in creating martyrs for their movement if the provocations did not work well enough...

Sad and hopefully the leaders will be handled in ways they should to pay for their crimes.

[clown]

The useful idiots and human shields (the peasants) were mostly only armed with homemade weapons, but the military wing (former soldiers) were armed to the teeth with automatic rifles and grenade launchers and there is plenty of evidence of this on film. It seems that the poor were used as cannon fodder by their leaders.

Your way of describing the people involved in this conflict amazes me.

You're calling the former soldiers the "military wing". That's fine. But you're calling the peasants "idiots and human shields"?

Shame on you.

[Robby nz]

Way I heard it there were 2 woman killed and no children, one of the women was killed by a grenade that hit the BTS station, guess who fired that.

There was only 1 child injured as far as I know but we have been through that on many threads with the reds trying to score points from the poor kids injury.

If the Army was targeting woman and children as claimed by some they did a poor job of it.

[Ulysses G.]

The useful idiots and human shields (the peasants) were mostly only armed with homemade weapons, but the military wing (former soldiers) were armed to the teeth with automatic rifles and grenade launchers and there is plenty of evidence of this on film. It seems that the poor were used as cannon fodder by their leaders.

Your way of describing the people involved in this conflict amazes me.

You're calling the former soldiers the "military wing". That's fine. But you're calling the peasants "idiots and human shields"?

Shame on you.

Actually, I called them useful idiots.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In political jargon, the term useful idiot was used to describe Soviet sympathizers in Western countries and the attitude of the Soviet government towards them. The implication was that though the person in question naïvely thought themselves an ally of the Soviets or other Communists, they were actually held in contempt by them, and were being cynically used.

The term is now used more broadly to describe someone who is perceived to be manipulated by a political movement, terrorist group, hostile government, or business, whether or not the group is Communist in nature.

Edited May 23, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[scorecard]

"Terrorists have used these weapons to attack officials and innocent people," said Suthep Thaugsuban, deputy prime minister in charge of security affairs, at an army barracks on the northern outskirts of the capital.

AFP journalists reporting at the protest zone for the past two months have seen only a handful of firearms in the hands of protesters, who were mostly armed only with crude weapons like rockets and Molotov cocktails.

So who do you believe?

Suggest you do a scan of the AFP reports over the last few months, again and again they have failed to present highly relative material which was needed to construct balanced reports.

[clown]

Way I heard it there were 2 woman killed and no children, one of the women was killed by a grenade that hit the BTS station, guess who fired that.

There was only 1 child injured as far as I know but we have been through that on many threads with the reds trying to score points from the poor kids injury.

If the Army was targeting woman and children as claimed by some they did a poor job of it.

BP and others reported a hospital nurse with a green cross on her back killed as well, as she was running to help an injured red shirt protester, at the temple near Rajprasong. Of course nobody knows who shot her. She was shot in the back, so whoever shot her obviously knew she was a nurse.

[hammered]

Statement by Phue Thai Party regarding the alleged discovery of war weapon at assembly site

blabla ... no need to rpeat all of this ... blabla

In denial and furthering the objectives of Thaksin. Wonder if Amsterdam wrote this.

The English of PTP statements has improved. Help from RobertA may explain their proficiency.

It just shows they arent going to even try to be part of reconcilliation but just want endless confrontation. Where were they for the clean up today? They havent condemned a single act of violence by the reds and deny everything even happened. They didnt even show any anguishg for those affected by the red intimidation and violence over the months. Not surprising consdiering how many of them were up on red stages encoiuraging excesses and seemingly funding the violence.

Yep Amsterdam no doubt. Nothing official wll be released in English without his say so. That is how he creates his memes. If as per normal what gets said in Thai will different from English.

[hammered]

The useful idiots and human shields (the peasants) were mostly only armed with homemade weapons, but the military wing (former soldiers) were armed to the teeth with automatic rifles and grenade launchers and there is plenty of evidence of this on film. It seems that the poor were used as cannon fodder by their leaders.

Your way of describing the people involved in this conflict amazes me.

You're calling the former soldiers the "military wing". That's fine. But you're calling the peasants "idiots and human shields"?

Shame on you.

Actually, I called them useful idiots.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In political jargon, the term useful idiot was used to describe Soviet sympathizers in Western countries and the attitude of the Soviet government towards them. The implication was that though the person in question naïvely thought themselves an ally of the Soviets or other Communists, they were actually held in contempt by them, and were being cynically used.

The term is now used more broadly to describe someone who is perceived to be manipulated by a political movement, terrorist group, hostile government, or business, whether or not the group is Communist in nature.

Useful idiots is how the elite red hierarchy will perceive them and a cursory look at maoist strategy and tactics will openly show it and we know the red group[ use maoist strategy if not ideology

[rabo]

Another fact is AI are all the world has against the wealthy aggressor wheather that be Thaksin, The Thai Army, the US or the UK marching around the world in persuit of WMD/OIL and POWER. Please! People are not idiots.....

This post suggests otherwise.

I think this post shows what is wrong with AI in the first place, or at least their image. They cannot assume a prefab model that assumes wealth and organization is wrong and poor are always right.

Did Amnesty mentioned armed militia and bombs mixed with ordinary citizens?, and that some of those citizens were denied the right to leave by confiscating their national IDs? (I don't know)

Amnesty is not bad, but they have their own set of bias as everyone else today. Perhaps they have the same marketing concerns as the news media.

Edited May 23, 2010 by rabo

[Robby nz]

Way I heard it there were 2 woman killed and no children, one of the women was killed by a grenade that hit the BTS station, guess who fired that.

There was only 1 child injured as far as I know but we have been through that on many threads with the reds trying to score points from the poor kids injury.

If the Army was targeting woman and children as claimed by some they did a poor job of it.

BP and others reported a hospital nurse with a green cross on her back killed as well, as she was running to help an injured red shirt protester, at the temple near Rajprasong. Of course nobody knows who shot her. She was shot in the back, so whoever shot her obviously knew she was a nurse.

Sorry forgot about her.

There were also 6 others males (one died in hospital) shot at the same time in the temple grounds all were red cross workers with red cross insignia as yet no proof who shot them but they were all head or chest shots obviously targeted.

Personally I cant believe the army would do that, what could they possibly gain from it?

[animatic]

Statement by Phue Thai Party regarding the alleged discovery of war weapon at assembly site

Reference is made to the government and CRES's press conference and statement that there has been discovery and collection of numerous war weapons from the UDD and the protesters in Rachaprasong area.

Phue Thai Party wishes to state that the statement made by the government is predictable and is what the Party has all along anticipated that the government is trying to justify the violent crackdown on the peaceful protest by heavily armed soldiers with war weapon. The government is trying to paint the picture that the protesters possessed weapon and are terrorists. The said statement by the government and the CRES is contrary to the facts and reasons as follows:

1. The core leaders of the UDD had, on rally stage, publicly told the protesters on the night prior to the 19th of May 2010 that there had been discussion in the CRES's meeting that war weapons should be planted at the rally site to implicate and incriminate the protesters that they used offensive war weapon. The anticipation and prediction of the UDD leaders mysteriously and suspiciously becomes a reality.

2. If the protesters had had those war weapons, why they had not used them on the previous days and on the day on which they were cracked down violently by the soldiers? Why did they leave those weapons unused?

3. The protesters had known in advance of the potential crackdown and dispersal and had anticipated that the government would try to use the weapons to implicate them in the terrorist charges. It goes against logic that the protesters would have left those weapons behind.

4. The UDD had taken the journalists, local and foreign, to inspect and examine the rally site for weapon and none was found.

5. Since the beginning of the protest on March 12, 2010, over sixty people died, four of which are government officers and the rest are civilians. None of the dead civilians had weapon.

6. The search and discovery of weapons was one-sidedly conducted by the government after the crackdown and dispersal of the protest and was not witnessed by neutral party.

7. No fingerprints are collected to collect evidence in accordance with the forensic science.

Phue Thai Party is extremely concerned about the fact that the government and the CRES are trying to use the weapons allegedly discovered to justify and incriminate the protesters as terrorists despite the fact that the government's conclusion and theory are contrary to the facts and reasons as stated above. We hereby urge and call upon the government to investigate and examine the cases fairly and straightforwardly.

In denial and furthering the objectives of Thaksin. Wonder if Amsterdam wrote this.

This was all part of the plan, to bring down the gov.

Using violent instigation to cause deaths, and creating an impression of a gov. out of countrol

was always an obvious goal of the rallies. That's why the provocations increased every time the gov. got agreeable.

No problem if a hidden force wastes a few pawns to increase the body count, all works to the same end.

So new we see right on schedule PTP trying to say that

their own provocation squad was a victim of a beligerant gov.

Hypocracy has a new definition Pheu Thai...

But most all in Thailand, with half open minds, at this point can see through this facade of a civilized political party

looking out for the little guys, and see them as part of the controlling mechanism that caused all this horror.

So no surprise that this spurious list of innuendo is brought out to slam the gov.

Will this sway any coalition partners... not likely, they would have felt just as threatened

by this horror show perpetrated on their country, with the aim of removing them from government too.

Edited May 23, 2010 by animatic

[photojourn]

The massive weapons cache's suddenly being found by government sources defies belief. I followed the SWAT team through the temple with two dogs. There was a third dog working in a separate part of the temple. I watched the SWAT team check every monks quarters and clear them. I watched them clear each part of the temple. By the time the temple had been declared "cleared" they had found a bucket of slingshots, and a handful of ping-pong "bombs" and fire crackers.

By the time I left the temple they had had not searched the well though and it is claimed some munitions were found there. As to that point I cannot comment as I did not look in the well.

However, having also searched very thoroughly prior to the SWAT team arriving I am amazed at the hundreds of rounds of linked ammunition claimed to have been found.

Personally I saw handguns on two occasions - once at San Liame Din Daeng in the hands of local hoons and once at Lumphini Park in the hands of a black suited red-shirts guard.

The vast majority of the "arts and crafts" munitions displayed by CRES is designed for machine guns. The red-shirts had no machine guns. It should noted that the ammunition displayed shows every fifth round as being a tracer round.

I also very thoroughly searched the backstage area on Wednesday night prior to the army arriving (did not arrive until Thursday afternoon) and found no weapons or munitions of any kind. My search included the leaders rest room, the VIP area and under the stage.

During the army advance into the red-shirt protest area I spent considerable time at Sarasin Rd. There were no sounds of machine gun fire or M79 or M67 grenades exploding. During the military advance I only once saw a person with a handgun (as noted above). I also walked through and inspected many of the tents along Rajadmiri Road leading back to the stage and found only a few shell casings in the medical tent at Sarasin Rd. The casing indicated they were from the Thai Army comprising 5.56mm rounds and the distinctive opaque 00-buckshot cartridges being used.

While I won't say the red-shirts did not have any weapons, the great lie being told by the Thai government now should be recognized for what it is.

[Ulysses G.]

Maybe. Maybe not, but there are plenty of videos of the blackshirts with automatic assault rifles and grenade launchers, so it does not really matter all that much.

[jdinasia]

Credibility is the issue and at this point ... the gov has it and many "journalists" don't.

[Livinginexile]

I find it convenient that all these weapons of mass destruction were found.

Has anyone wondered why they were not used?

Smells a bit fishy.

Please read my post above. The article quoted was from an independent Asean online newspaper and which quotes former members of Thaksin's regime. I would believe them rather than some farang who has just come out of the woodwork.

Very few soldiers were shot!

There is no official record detailing the cause of soldiers injuries.

Why? because the report would clearly show all injuries were caused either by "friendly fire" or the result of normal crowd control.

The Thai army murdered over 100 of their own people.

Thats a fact!

[animatic]

Way I heard it there were 2 woman killed and no children, one of the women was killed by a grenade that hit the BTS station, guess who fired that.

There was only 1 child injured as far as I know but we have been through that on many threads with the reds trying to score points from the poor kids injury.

If the Army was targeting woman and children as claimed by some they did a poor job of it.

BP and others reported a hospital nurse with a green cross on her back killed as well, as she was running to help an injured red shirt protester, at the temple near Rajprasong. Of course nobody knows who shot her. She was shot in the back, so whoever shot her obviously knew she was a nurse.

Sorry forgot about her.

There were also 6 others males (one died in hospital) shot at the same time in the temple grounds all were red cross workers with red cross insignia as yet no proof who shot them but they were all head or chest shots obviously targeted.

Personally I cant believe the army would do that, what could they possibly gain from it?

Personally I cant believe the army would do that, what could they possibly gain from it?

Exactly.

The army have everything to lose for this, they knew this, but the other sides shadow warrior snipers

with a brief to do whatever is good to embarrass the army with, would find this a useful target.

It's obvious we are dealing with amoral persons with no compunctions whatsoever.

Edited May 23, 2010 by animatic

[animatic]

Credibility is the issue and at this point ... the gov has it and many "journalists" don't.

Ditto.

The last thing they wanted was it to be easy to find this stuff,

and especially for a journaist with camera, even a red siding one.

Don't for a minute imagine they would trust a blond farang with a camera

to know about their back story plans.

[Livinginexile]

Maybe. Maybe not, but there are plenty of videos of the blackshirts with automatic assault rifles and grenade launchers, so it does not really matter all that much.

Ulysses, could you please give us a link to these "plenty of videos of the blackshirts with automatic assault rifles and grenade launchers"?

I just havn't seen any! only a couple of grainy videos of protesters with one or two hand guns.

Proof please

Edited May 23, 2010 by Livinginexile

[snorkelador]

I find it convenient that all these weapons of mass destruction were found.

Has anyone wondered why they were not used?

Smells a bit fishy.

Please read my post above. The article quoted was from an independent Asean online newspaper and which quotes former members of Thaksin's regime. I would believe them rather than some farang who has just come out of the woodwork.

Very few soldiers were shot!

There is no official record detailing the cause of soldiers injuries.

Why? because the report would clearly show all injuries were caused either by "friendly fire" or the result of normal crowd control.

The Thai army murdered over 100 of their own people.

Thats a fact!

I'd rather say that so called fact is a bunch of bullshit, mate!

There were casualties and some of them must have been shot by the military. What else were they supposed to do when being shot at? The people who were there by choice and got shot had it coming, sorry! It was not a peaceful protest at all! I am very sorry for those poor souls who believed all the crap they were told and got hurt along the way. I would be very sorry if you were one of those casualties, unless you were actually one of those feeding bullshit and getting people in the line of fire thinking they were fighting for democracy, freedom etc.. Absolutely shameless lies, that could not be further from the truth!

[animatic]

I find it convenient that all these weapons of mass destruction were found.

Has anyone wondered why they were not used?

Smells a bit fishy.

Please read my post above. The article quoted was from an independent Asean online newspaper and which quotes former members of Thaksin's regime. I would believe them rather than some farang who has just come out of the woodwork.

Very few soldiers were shot!

There is no official record detailing the cause of soldiers injuries.

Why? because the report would clearly show all injuries were caused either by "friendly fire" or the result of normal crowd control.

The Thai army murdered over 100 of their own people.

Thats a fact!

So explain the soldiers injured by grenades and killed with guns?

Just because they were better protected, doesn't mean they were the only ones firing.

Nor also does it mean they were not being fired on.

And there is absolutely NO PROOF that all deaths were caused by the army.

And there are several insances where other parties were clearly the offencive opporatives.

So your post is just proaganda... desperate propaganda.

Merde alors, you can't even get the numbers right. Hang it up.