Bitter Thai Red Shirts Promise Further Rallies In North

[agord]

I have asked staff that worked in ZEN ground floor how much the staff was getting paid there on average, as I've read so many posts about how cruel employer Central was.

The basic salary depended on their work.

The shop manager got 18-22,000 baht plus commission, the cashier ~ 15,000 baht, the clerk 7-8,000 baht plus commission. The staff (clerk) said that on average her monthly income was 16-18,000 baht including commission.

About 2/3 of the staff were from northeastern part of the country. While they were getting the basic salary (obviously not commission) during the time Central World was closed, at least this staff has received a call that she has now been laid off.

I would guess many others were as well, as optimistic estimates to rebuild the place are 6 months, pessimistic ones 1-2 years, and that's not counting in return of the redshirts or further trouble in the area.

So I can summarize that about 6500 northeastern families just lost income from their sons and daughters from Central World alone.

There are 1000 more at Centre One.

Another 1500 more at Big C Rajadamri.

And another 15000 staff laid off by hotels in the area.

That's a big beating to many families upcountry, which is definitely going to make their lives even more miserable.

Reason for edit: Added that the person was a clerk

As a former employee of the Central Group I can say that they take good care of their staff. Not figured into those salaries is a yearly bonus/profit sharing equal to one month salary depending on how well they did - managers sometime 1.5 month salary.

[agord]

Let's not compare with the West and make Western judgements like "25 baht an hour is terrible...".

I pay 120 Baht a day + tips.

For someone who is uneducated, does not want to go to Pattaya or the local karaoke bar it is better than nothing and certainly better than sitting on your arse in the village.

It is called market rate, as is the meagre 60 Baht I can charge for a delicious khao pad goong.

Isn't the lowest minimum wage something like 150 bt/day? Tips do not count as part of the minimum wage salary. Are you a criminal or are there different laws regarding positions which have tips? In any case 120 bt/day sounds like robbery to me. You should consider bumping up to 200/day at least.

Min wage in Phuket is just under 6,000 baht per month I think 5,850?

[ozzieman05]

Yes, but even those rural folks in Bangkok are Reds. Communism seems like a great idea to them.

Nice to know this woman is happy that poor people in Bangkok (many of whom actually come from the same kind of background as her) have lost their jobs thanks to all the burning she is happy about. Seems nobody is picking up on all the poor that are suffering because of the red arson and violence. There is a big irony in that albeit a sad one. Bnagkok is not full; of only rich people and it is the poor who are suffering most from the attacks through lost work.

all most of them want is an election,but this goverment wouldnt wont this because they no they will loose

In the last week in Issan my friend

the people will vote the Government back in with a huge mandate

Why

The Red shirts have cut off the money coming from Bangkok to them

you can offer them 300 400 baht

but you have just cost them 3000- 4000 baht a month in loss income

do the figures

you lost the war and the next election

[Chaimai]

Let's not compare with the West and make Western judgements like "25 baht an hour is terrible...".

I pay 120 Baht a day + tips.

For someone who is uneducated, does not want to go to Pattaya or the local karaoke bar it is better than nothing and certainly better than sitting on your arse in the village.

It is called market rate, as is the meagre 60 Baht I can charge for a delicious khao pad goong.

Isn't the lowest minimum wage something like 150 bt/day? Tips do not count as part of the minimum wage salary. Are you a criminal or are there different laws regarding positions which have tips? In any case 120 bt/day sounds like robbery to me. You should consider bumping up to 200/day at least.

Not your business.

Do some reasearch - and look at previous Thai Visa threads. Minimum (contracted) wages range from 148 - 203 Baht (Bangkok).

Look at earlier topics where rice cutting paid 60 Baht a day.

I pay 50% more than a local competitor.

I will always pay a fair rate based on local market conditions. 5 people now earn a wage and they were not doing that last year.

Maybe I should start to charge them for their meals ?

If I paid 200 Baht a day I would need to increase my prices which customers may well respond to by buying less. I would then close, result 5 more potential candidates for the karaoke bar.

[way2muchcoffee]

Just shows the real problem. She is uneducated. The only way to fix this nation is by affordable health care and affordable education. This is the only way to stop the cycle of poverty.

This country already has both affordable health care and affordable education. So what is the problem then in your opinion?

The healthcare is 'passable' at the 'free' level (much better if you pay for it. Oh!, similar to most Western countries).

Are you saying that the affordable education is effective ?

I would suggest otherwise.

I would suggest that for those who attend all classes, do all homework, study hard, earn good grades on their own merit, and have decent parenting to instill those values then yes, the affordable education is highly effective. Unfortunately that is not the behavior of students in most schools.

Edited May 24, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[ozzieman05]

This government must be dreaming that they will get the situation in hand. They have staged a military coup and asked their corrupted friends in court to send two governments home on very flimsy grounds. We can be pretty sure that if the DP will not be banned anger will spiral out of control.

so what do you call the last 2 weeks

They do not see to need a reason

they do because some one is not happy and say's jump

they all shot

How High Master

[way2muchcoffee]

Let's not compare with the West and make Western judgements like "25 baht an hour is terrible...".

I pay 120 Baht a day + tips.

For someone who is uneducated, does not want to go to Pattaya or the local karaoke bar it is better than nothing and certainly better than sitting on your arse in the village.

It is called market rate, as is the meagre 60 Baht I can charge for a delicious khao pad goong.

Isn't the lowest minimum wage something like 150 bt/day? Tips do not count as part of the minimum wage salary. Are you a criminal or are there different laws regarding positions which have tips? In any case 120 bt/day sounds like robbery to me. You should consider bumping up to 200/day at least.

Not your business.

Do some reasearch - and look at previous Thai Visa threads. Minimum (contracted) wages range from 148 - 203 Baht (Bangkok).

Look at earlier topics where rice cutting paid 60 Baht a day.

I pay 50% more than a local competitor.

I will always pay a fair rate based on local market conditions. 5 people now earn a wage and they were not doing that last year.

Maybe I should start to charge them for their meals ?

If I paid 200 Baht a day I would need to increase my prices which customers may well respond to by buying less. I would then close, result 5 more potential candidates for the karaoke bar.

If other employers underpay their employees illegally that does not give you the right to do so. If you are not paying the legal minimum wage then you are part of the problem. Perhaps you wouldn't have to raise prices, but only accept a more modest profit off the labor of others. If you cannot pay the legal minimum wage it would seem that your business is not viable and that your business model isn't a successful one.

Edited May 24, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[Chaimai]

Let's not compare with the West and make Western judgements like "25 baht an hour is terrible...".

I pay 120 Baht a day + tips.

For someone who is uneducated, does not want to go to Pattaya or the local karaoke bar it is better than nothing and certainly better than sitting on your arse in the village.

It is called market rate, as is the meagre 60 Baht I can charge for a delicious khao pad goong.

Isn't the lowest minimum wage something like 150 bt/day? Tips do not count as part of the minimum wage salary. Are you a criminal or are there different laws regarding positions which have tips? In any case 120 bt/day sounds like robbery to me. You should consider bumping up to 200/day at least.

Not your business.

Do some reasearch - and look at previous Thai Visa threads. Minimum (contracted) wages range from 148 - 203 Baht (Bangkok).

Look at earlier topics where rice cutting paid 60 Baht a day.

I pay 50% more than a local competitor.

I will always pay a fair rate based on local market conditions. 5 people now earn a wage and they were not doing that last year.

Maybe I should start to charge them for their meals ?

If I paid 200 Baht a day I would need to increase my prices which customers may well respond to by buying less. I would then close, result 5 more potential candidates for the karaoke bar.

If other employers underpay their employees illegally that does not give you the right to do so. If you are not paying the legal minimum wage then you are part of the problem. Perhaps you wouldn't have to raise prices, but only accept a more modest profit off the labor of others. Moreover, if you cannot pay the legal minimum wage then perhaps your business model isn't a successful one.

Profit ?

As per my business plan, this was always intended to be a hobby that kept 5 Thai females off the street.

I have no intention of extracting a profit.

To make it look better, and satisfy sanctimonious posters, I could pay them the minimum of 148 Baht but exclude them from receiving tips. Hmmm. Think I will give them the choice.

Edited May 24, 2010 by Chaimai

[way2muchcoffee]

Anyway, no need to hijack the thread any further with this side topic.

Edited May 24, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[cdnmatt]

I did have some compassion for these poor Red Shirts, misguided as they are. The poverty up North is real

I don't know... after living up here for a good while, I don't have as much sympathy for the red-shirt movement as I once did. I think the image they try to portray to the outside world is a little exaggerated, to say the least. Sure, there's quite a few poor people around, but it's hardly some desolute area filled with starving babies.

I live in KK city though, and have only spent time in two villages, so maybe I just have to get out more. From what I've seen though, everyone seems just fine to me. I see FAR more nice, new $35,000 trucks than I do old, beat-up clunkers. Even in the villages, there's some pretty nice houses and vehicles around. Sure, some of them are poor, but everyone seems happy, and definitely nobody is going hungry. Everyone seems to have a motorbike, and they don't see too worried about the price of petrol, because they'd all prefer to drive 50 feet instead of walk. They also seem to have quite a bit of money for their sound systems, that's for sure.

I remember before moving to KK, I was expected this run down, poverty stricken place, and it's nothing like that at all. I'd almost say people in Budapest and Bucharest have it harder than most folk up here. Well, maybe that's a bit of a stretch, but nonetheless...

[LikeHeat]

She just sounds bitter. So what does she want? Communism? Money? Once she's rich does she fall into the category of people she hates? She blames her own incompetence and stupidity on people who had nothing to do with it. She can swim in her pool of schadenfreude all she wants, for all I care. An attitude like hers in no way helps this country move forward. In fact, it's probably the most counterproductive way to think.

Agreed, dttk0009. Tough <deleted> about the house, it happens to all, when rent is not paid. Her fault. Maybe she can go back into the hole in the ground where she came from.

She does not know what she wants and is merely complaining. When she was in Bangkok she liked sleeping in the street. Having lost her house due to not paying the rent she can now carry on like she was in Bangkok. You just have to look on the bright side.

[Chaimai]

Anyway, no need to hijack the thread any further with this side topic.

I agree.

..and we do we agree on many issues in this conflict.

I would just like to promote education as the cornerstone of progression for the disadvantaged in Thailand.

I just worry that, rather like greed and corruption, the problems are so embedded that it becomes too difficult to rectify.

[nightmarch]

Nice to know this woman is happy that poor people in Bangkok (many of whom actually come from the same kind of background as her) have lost their jobs thanks to all the burning she is happy about. Seems nobody is picking up on all the poor that are suffering because of the red arson and violence. There is a big irony in that albeit a sad one. Bnagkok is not full; of only rich people and it is the poor who are suffering most from the attacks through lost work.

I am sorry to say I agree with the woman from Chiang Mai, the Abhisit government is not legitimate, it rorted the normal electoral process.

It is also cynical, shameless and unprincipled. I believe Abhisit's objective is simply to hold on to power and he doesn't much mind at what cost.

How is the Abhisit government not legitimate? Based on the parliamentary system in Thailand, which is similar to that of the United Kingdom, Australia, New Zealand, Canada and many others, if a party can control a majority on the floor of the Lower House then they are able to govern. The PPP, which won the 2007 election with 233 seats (out of 480) was able to form a government with coalition partners. In late 2008 a number of MPs who were part of the ruling PPP coalition changed sides on the floor of the House and joined the 165-seat strong Democrats. This gave the latter a parliamentary majority thus enabling them to take power. This is quite legitimate and has more than enough precedents in the national politics of many similar nations. Take the recent UK election in which no party won a clear majority: there is now, for the first time since the 1920s, a coalition govt in place. It is quite possible that if the junior party falls out with its senior partner, they could, with the help of a number of other independents, quite legitimately help the Labour Party regain power.

[wlcart]

I am sorry to say I agree with the woman from Chiang Mai, the Abhisit government is not legitimate, it rorted the normal electoral process.

It is also cynical, shameless and unprincipled. I believe Abhisit's objective is simply to hold on to power and he doesn't much mind at what cost.

You are a newbie on TV maybe that's why you didn't read the hundreds of topics were they explaine that the present government is 100 % legit . This in accordance with all the rules of democracy as they are implemented in any democratic country.

I value your contributions but would you please stop the hoax that this government os not democratic elected and have an democratic majority in the parlilament.

This government is legal and what the reds did was illegal, reckless and evil, but I would challenge you as an aware TV member that this government is far from 100% legit and far from 100% democratic.

We all know politics in Thailand is all about corruption and hypocrisy and lacks transparency.

The reaction to this article on TV is full of anger, understandably, but we need to be careful.

Flowerpot talks like a crackpot, and so does the women in the article, what she said is just stupid, pathetic and evil, but plenty of Issan folks are against the red, they are decent, they have brains, they are ashamed of what happened to their Thailand, and they deserve some compassion and understanding. They may lack urban sophistication but they are a part of the reality of Thailand and should not be brushed with too wide of a stroke.

And yes, many TV members are educated and intelligent, that it is why I suggest not overreacting to sensational journalism. I personally would be much more interested in the reporter investigating more universal and complex issues among the reds as a group than just picking some crazy evil woman's quotes to sell papers.

[Heng]

Hope her landlord can find a new tenant.

[clown]

How is the Abhisit government not legitimate?

I think the problem started with the coup. Then PPP won the next elections and the PM (Samak) was disqualified because he ran a cooking show. In any true Democracy, you would see neither a coup, nor a PM disqualified for running a cooking show.

[lungmi]

Just shows the real problem. She is uneducated. The only way to fix this nation is by affordable health care and affordable education. This is the only way to stop the cycle of poverty.

This country already has both affordable health care and affordable education. So what is the problem then in your opinion?

Affordable health care???

In our province, poorer than most Esaarn provinces, we had and we have a good system of health-stations with good staff, Chuan Leek Pai was the initiator with the help of good Democrat MPs. Under Thaksin this system was running dry, no financial support, but the 30 Baht project to go to the hospitals. Everyone went to the hospitals - to die. The hospitals had not the funds to take care of the patients, Thaksin cut the funds for a province of Democrat voters. The good doctors went to private hospitals, James Bond doctors (Licence to kill) lasted.

[Kan Win]

Bitter Thai 'Red Shirts' promise further rallies in north

Please stay there

by M. Jegathesan

CHIANG MAI (AFP) -- Frustrated, homeless and bitterly disappointed -- this is the reality for "Red Shirt" Parichart Chanmanee as she returns to her northern hometown after two months of protesting in Bangkok.

The single mother-of-two made the long journey back by bus on Thursday after a deadly military crackdown forced the anti-government movement's leaders to surrender, sparking looting and major arson attacks by hardcore protestors.

As she came home angered by the protest's failure to bring about the government's downfall, the 52-year-old faced another blow: she was homeless, with her belongings thrown out for failing to pay rent while she was away.

<snip>

"I miss my friends who slept with me on the roads in Bangkok. It was hard and hot. But we were all equal. We ate the same food, we laughed and we shared our political views. It was rough and tough," she said.

<snip>

"We know our struggle will be a long one. <snip> We want cheap rice. We want justice for all. There will be a new wave of protests," she added.

1. Should have ask the Reds to pay your rent.

2. Cheap rice comes at a price to poor rice farmers as well.

3. Justice for all, Yes please, only one rule and not double standards ones

Sawadee

[gl9999]

How is the Abhisit government not legitimate?

I think the problem started with the coup. Then PPP won the next elections and the PM (Samak) was disqualified because he ran a cooking show. In any true Democracy, you would see neither a coup, nor a PM disqualified for running a cooking show.

In a true democracy, a head of government who stole billions and had thousands of his own citizens murdered would be impeached and then charged in court. Thus there wouldn't be a need for a coup would there?

[animatic]

I am sorry to say I agree with the woman from Chiang Mai, the Abhisit government is not legitimate, it rorted the normal electoral process.

It is also cynical, shameless and unprincipled. I believe Abhisit's objective is simply to hold on to power and he doesn't much mind at what cost.

You are a newbie on TV maybe that's why you didn't read the hundreds of topics were they explaine that the present government is 100 % legit . This in accordance with all the rules of democracy as they are implemented in any democratic country.

I value your contributions but would you please stop the hoax that this government os not democratic elected and have an democratic majority in the parlilament.

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." - Upton Sinclair

Love it!!!!

[animatic]

How is the Abhisit government not legitimate?

I think the problem started with the coup. Then PPP won the next elections and the PM (Samak) was disqualified because he ran a cooking show. In any true Democracy, you would see neither a coup, nor a PM disqualified for running a cooking show.

The problem started with Thaksin ripping off the country.

But that aside, the PPP were quite happy when they one,

no screaming and jumping up and down.

Nor from the Dems at the time, they just went into opposition, effectively.

The real problem is that PPP started screwing up from their campaign onwards.

Samak was told by his lawyers to drop the show, his ego over ruled them.

It wasd conflict of interest not cook that was his downfall, and perjury.

PPP ineptitude gave their opponents legitimate ammunition to take them to court.

They lost, and have whined on about it ever since.

They had the opportunity of getting PTP a real mandate by running an election after PPP left.

They had the PM's chair, but squandered it. Now they have 230+members in Parliament,

but not a party that legitimately elected them. Theirs is a tough position without the election.

The Dems have MUCH more of a mandate, because every MP that voted for their coalition,

was duly elected by their constituents. PTP can't say that, even if the hold a large voting block.

A voting block they regularly waste every time they enter parliament...

Not once has ANYONE stated what legislation to help the people of Thailand,

has PPP and PTP ever proposed and passed in the legislative branch of government?

What please someone, ANYTHING at all.

Something to justify their view they can run the country better.

Edited May 24, 2010 by animatic

[yabaaaa]

"As she came home angered by the protest's failure to bring about the government's downfall, the 52-year-old faced another blow: she was homeless, with her belongings thrown out for failing to pay rent while she was away"

Maybe she'll give it a bit more thought next time................but I doubt it!

She can go and live with "Ning" in the other thread.

[waza]

I fid the most interesting statement us .........a campaign, they say, for democracy, justice and equality against the mainly Bangkok-based Thai elites. However the Northern-based thai elites are ok to serve and die for.

[xenomorph]

How is the Abhisit government not legitimate?

I think the problem started with the coup. Then PPP won the next elections and the PM (Samak) was disqualified because he ran a cooking show. In any true Democracy, you would see neither a coup, nor a PM disqualified for running a cooking show.

I recall it was not the cooking show itself that was the issue. The problem was that he was the priminister of country this and were taking payments for being in that show, which apparently was forbidden by Thai law. Would it be any different if he would take payments from a company that wanted influence over the politics and decisions?

It really amazes me how so many here take so lightly on the laws of this country. As if they sometimes should obeyed and sometimes not. As if one could pick and chose which laws to follow or not. That isn't how laws work. Anyone here should know it, since it is de facto how you obey the laws in your own home country. If it is legal, it is okay. If not, then don't. Even if the Thais themselves sometime are bad at following the laws in this country, you as a guest should make sure to always show the respect of the laws in this country anyway. I'll guess Mr. Savage, for example, didn't understand that part. Bad for him, though. If a priminister are forbidden to take payment from anywhere else, the he must follow that law. He should known better, if he was serious with his job.

I must say I'm really amazed of all this Bull--Shit advocacy that many of the posters here carries.

.

Edited May 24, 2010 by xenomorph

[LaoPo]

World, outside?

the rural thai have no idea about life outside. Show them a map of the far east and they cant even identify thailand properly let alone the major cities. They dont even understand what a map is - cant visualise.

This has been done in many countries, including developed countries and parts of the world like the Americas, Western Europe and Australia/NZ.

Masses of people, (adults!) even on holidays, couldn't even point the country on a blind map where they were on holiday.

Ignorance is everywhere and is not particularly isolated to the uneducated in rural Thailand....

Americans are NOT stupid - WITH SUBTITLES"

Note: I found this YouTube movie at random and could have been shot in any western country...Germany for instance:

Germans are also NOT stupid - WITH SUBTITLES

Or in the UK:

British are also NOT stupid - WITH SUBTITLES

LaoPo

[GuyLee]

Nice to know this woman is happy that poor people in Bangkok (many of whom actually come from the same kind of background as her) have lost their jobs thanks to all the burning she is happy about. Seems nobody is picking up on all the poor that are suffering because of the red arson and violence. There is a big irony in that albeit a sad one. Bnagkok is not full; of only rich people and it is the poor who are suffering most from the attacks through lost work.

Yes but that is not the end of the story what about the shop owners (Thai) that have had to shut due to being unable to re-stock from Bangkok these actions are the most un Thai you can imagine. Yes I live in Pattaya but on a one man survey 40% of the Pattaya population are from Issan and 40% are from Korat and almost non are from a rich back ground include hair dressers, seven eleven employees etc please stop this and put Thailand back on the Map. Red, Yellow, Multi Colour and I have to include Farang due to one English Git! My last word is if you don't like Thailand get OUT! this includes those that call themselves Thai! I live her as I found the countruy, climate, but most of all the people the best let's get back to that!

[gemini81]

Hope her landlord can find a new tenant.

Oh, I'm sure it won't be difficult to find a more ideal tenant! Even vacant, losing money, and infested with cockroaches and termites would be an improvement.

She caused many from Bangkok to be poor, and whats more, her idol is one of the most filthy stinking rich! What an idiot to value this silly parade over her two children and her basic needs. What a bu_falo!

Edited May 24, 2010 by gemini81

[bermuda]

My task was to make sure no weapons were brought into the camps. There was solidarity among us. We were united," she said.

Saisunee meanwhile helped prepare food for the Red Shirts, and she said she sold her motorcycle, television set and a sewing machine to raise the money she needed to afford travel to the capital.

"I miss my friends who slept with me on the roads in Bangkok. It was hard and hot. But we were all equal. We ate the same food, we laughed and we shared our political views. It was rough and tough," she said.

Saisunee said she saw a protester killed by a sniper and sought refuge in the police hospital when she was alerted about Wednesday's impending army crackdown. "I did not want to die," she said.

Despite Oxford-educated Abhisit's call for national reconciliation in the wake of last week's mayhem and the arrest of key leading Red Shirts, the passion of rank-and-file protesters such as Parichart and Saisunee still burns.

Parichart said she was prepared to die to remove the current political elite, adding defiantly that she was "not afraid of the guns" and planning to resume work as a masseuse to save up for future rallies.

"We are excited about returning to Bangkok streets soon," her friend Saisunee said.

"We know our struggle will be a long one. We want a clean government now. We want cheap rice. We want justice for all. There will be a new wave of protests," she added.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Conflicting and ignorant statements from a simple fruit juice vendor carried away by populist propaganda and communism platform of governance.

How can she say she isn't afraid to die when she, according to her own statement, run and hid inside a hospital before the crackdown. Her friend was tasked to guard the red shirt camp to prevent any weapons being smuggled and stored and yet there were slingshots, rusted antique revolvers and molotov bombs stockpiled within the camp. What a lunatic idiot is the person who arranged their media interview!?

[whybother]

My task was to make sure no weapons were brought into the camps. There was solidarity among us. We were united," she said.

Saisunee meanwhile helped prepare food for the Red Shirts, and she said she sold her motorcycle, television set and a sewing machine to raise the money she needed to afford travel to the capital.

"I miss my friends who slept with me on the roads in Bangkok. It was hard and hot. But we were all equal. We ate the same food, we laughed and we shared our political views. It was rough and tough," she said.

Saisunee said she saw a protester killed by a sniper and sought refuge in the police hospital when she was alerted about Wednesday's impending army crackdown. "I did not want to die," she said.

Despite Oxford-educated Abhisit's call for national reconciliation in the wake of last week's mayhem and the arrest of key leading Red Shirts, the passion of rank-and-file protesters such as Parichart and Saisunee still burns.

Parichart said she was prepared to die to remove the current political elite, adding defiantly that she was "not afraid of the guns" and planning to resume work as a masseuse to save up for future rallies.

"We are excited about returning to Bangkok streets soon," her friend Saisunee said.

"We know our struggle will be a long one. We want a clean government now. We want cheap rice. We want justice for all. There will be a new wave of protests," she added.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Conflicting and ignorant statements from a simple fruit juice vendor carried away by populist propaganda and communism platform of governance.

How can she say she isn't afraid to die when she, according to her own statement, run and hid inside a hospital before the crackdown. Her friend was tasked to guard the red shirt camp to prevent any weapons being smuggled and stored and yet there were slingshots, rusted antique revolvers and molotov bombs stockpiled within the camp. What a lunatic idiot is the person who arranged their media interview!?

good to see I wasn't the only one to make that mistake. The interview was with 2 people.

[asiawatcher]

This government must be dreaming that they will get the situation in hand. They have staged a military coup and asked their corrupted friends in court to send two governments home on very flimsy grounds. We can be pretty sure that if the DP will not be banned anger will spiral out of control.

Yes I did look at your join date straight after reading your post.

And I looked at your user name - any idea where you fit in this society?