Where In The World?

[BaanOz]

Sitting down in an alley waiting our dog to get a haircut. Two boys walk pass in front of us, the first boy maybe about 16 and the second (brother?) following about 8 years old. As they walked pass they bowed to my wife and I.

Where in the world would kids (especially these days!) do this?

I know it's Thai custom to bow when walking behind or between people who are talking but to bow to two complete stranges is amazing.

My wife said "yeah that's normal" ...well not really!

Cheers BaanOz.

[Richard Hall]

Well, maybe not "normal" but just a fine gesture of good manners.

Once accustomed and adopted as personal characteristic certain behaviour surfaces automatically. A generally polite person tends to constantly stick to his/her pattern independant from the environment while a rude person does the same but just in the opposite way. Surely never a matter of age but rather personality.

Hope you rewarded those two young chaps with your brightest smile.

Cheers,

Richard

[sua yai]

BaanOz,

Would you bow, or at least nod your head a little, when walking between two elderly Thai people who are talking together?

I find myself doing it, but not in an exaggerated manner.

Even when back in the UK, I'll find myself saying "excuse me" if I step inbetween people, especially if noticably older.

Just upbringing wherever you're from.

[mnoorsapl]

My wife said "yeah that's normal" ...well not really! 

Cheers BaanOz.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

some do and some don't.

[TRIPxCORE]

Very nice to hear of such manners in young people even if it was a little too much. Certainly what the entire world is lacking is enough people with a little respect, politeness and manners. Only in Japan have I found respect from people more often than not.

[soi lurker]

Should be more of it, nothing wrong with good manners, especially from youth.....

[CarlBkk]

Having said that, manners in the acts of queuing or holding a door open for those behind you is seriously lacking here. I consider that on a par with or even more important than bowing to walk between people. I know it's down to culture/education/parenting so I don't really blame them as young, old, hi-so, lo-so all fall behind in these areas.

[expatinasia]

Worldwide, good manners are an indication of good parenting.

[Steve2UK]

Agree with what's been said on both the positive & negative aspects. If I had one wish, it's that I might get even an acknowledgement when I'm driving and let someone into traffic or pull over to let them pass in a narrow soi. I think I saw it just once, but maybe he was just waving at a friend...........

Stiil, it's far from universal in London, come to that.

[HarryHacker]

Having said that, manners in the acts of queuing or holding a door open for those behind you is seriously lacking here.  I consider that on a par with or even more important than bowing to walk between people.  I know it's down to culture/education/parenting so I don't really blame them as young, old, hi-so, lo-so all fall behind in these areas.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Correct!

[BaanOz]

Hope you rewarded those two young chaps with your brightest smile.

It happen so quickly they got more of a surprised look then a smile, but I'm too slow these days!!!

Cheers BaanOz

[BaanOz]

BaanOz,

Would you bow, or at least nod your head a little, when walking between two elderly Thai people who are talking together?

I find myself doing it, but not in an exaggerated manner.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sua Yai,

Yes I do and my wife reminds me when I forget (for next time!). I'm here in their country, so I do as Thai's do. No question about that.

Cheers BaanOz

[samran]

When a younger person noticiably walks in front of an older person, the tendency is to bend/bow so that your head is lower than theirs.

When indoors and the more senior person is sitting down, do whatever you can not to pass in front of them, and if you have no choice, bend down REALLY low when you pass in front of them, or get pass them on your knees (which is usually reserved for someone with a lot of status or is used to that treatment).

[Nordlys]

Where in the world would kids (especially these days!) do this?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Japanese would do it, kids and grown-ups, pretty much the way samran described.

Not to the point of kneeling down though.

[bina]

funny, my obnoxious israeli rough and tough (by american grandmother's standards) kids have learned to not walk between people, wei properly to all thai (all thai workers that they run into here), duck down when going past any of them, etc... it started sort of as a novelty but became habit; they can even manage khap khun kaa/kap; the rest of the time, they are terribly impolite by american /british standards; fairly polite compared to terribly obnoxious israeli standards

holding doors etc, as someone mentioned, are not 'asian' culture things; in israel you often will see older russian/old soviet union men etc hold door for a woman, will attempt to help take heavy packages, etc... dont see (native ) israeli men doing that; never saw a thai man do that either (except to me since i am a boss); but most israelis will stand for a pregnant woman so she can sit down, or if she has a child on her hands....

on the other hand, teachers in thailand get wei'd all the time by children out of politeness but the same children talk thru every class, etc

Edited June 15, 2005 by bina

[meom]

Bina, no disrespect meant but I been wondering for a while why about 99% of your posts describes life in Israel as opposed to LOS?

[bina]

i can only compare with what i see among the hundreds of thai workers i see here in relation to what i read about there in thailand (anthropologists view point); most behaviour people describe in their posts can have the word thailand yanked out and subsituted with other country names etc (thai girls u mean women dont u? etc) ; comparison is the best way to learn about other cultures and sub cultures... i work with 10-13 thai guys from issan for more then three years with two good friends (one now foreign worker in states, one works directly with me... i think that writing about kiwi sports, medical problems in general, women (men) in general are general items with a slightly thai touch (personality adn culture differences)... so i compare and try to give a althernative perspective... every one is complaining about 'thai' manners or lack, etc... thats a very ethnocentric but ex pat view point (like i say, here also people sit around and complain about how much better in south africa etc, )...

the point being that if u all want to sit around and complain or discuss same same everyday, then it quickly gets boring.... i mean: how much money should i give my thai girl? my thai girl dumped me? (read: my brazilian girl, swedish volunteer girl ,etc)... the things that ARE different are exactly these small things: food, toilet culture, relation with parents etc and comparing to other places, not just where u are at, or where u directly came from (read: new zealand, australia, etc)

besides the fact that it seems to me that u all ought to be a bit more aware of the fact that some of u at least have neighbhors, friends, relatives (mostly issaan and north of course) who work here, and maybe i even know them (small world after all), and i make an effort to speak their language, and help their (usually ) idiot bosses to understand them and see them as people and not as chattel to be used abused and thrown out and if it wasnt for thai visa, i wouldnt understand so much about their way of thinking and feeling and why sometimes they do what they do which causes so much problems between employer and employee and as bannork knows, if u think that the thai interpreters here from bangkok give a flying &lt;deleted&gt;.., then u are wrong...

and its also nice i think to learn about other ways in other countries besides the anglo/saxon types since we are also a bit third world, unsanitary, unorganized, etc etc... which puts your'll complaints in some perspective i should think.....

i am considering moving in the way future (depending on a particular person though due to cultural and monetary problems it probably will not be so as he is supporting a massive amount of family and i will never be able to help him ) and u all assume an awful lot about background so for u to understand that i come from a totally different way of living (no money, never will have, etc etc etc) i feel a need to expain more in depth....

no offense of course

if u dont like my posts so i;ll back off, too bad since u lack a group of women to offset the expat men complaints and i have a different and agricultural background than most, etc... dont like dont read

[meom]

Fair enough Bina. You got great writing skills btw

[PeaceBlondie]

Teaching at matayom schools in the provinces for 3.5 semesters, the wais from the students were so common I almost ignored it. If I even glanced into their eyes I got an immediate wai, and many would wai without being looked at. They came to my desk on their knees, of course, and the taller boys would always duck their heads.

Sometimes the katoey students give you a curtsey.

Edited June 16, 2005 by PeaceBlondie

[Jai Dee]

...and if it wasnt for thai visa, i wouldnt understand so much about their way of thinking and feeling and why sometimes they do what they do which causes so much problems between employer and employee

Great comment bina... how very true!

[thymode91]

i can only compare with what i see among the hundreds of thai workers i see here in relation to what i read about there in thailand (anthropologists view point); most behaviour people describe in their posts can have the word thailand yanked out and subsituted with other country names etc (thai girls u mean women dont u? etc) ; comparison is the best way to learn about other cultures and sub cultures... i work with 10-13 thai guys from issan for more then three years with two good friends (one now foreign worker in states, one works directly with me... i think that writing about kiwi sports, medical problems in general, women (men) in general are general items with a slightly thai touch (personality adn culture differences)... so i compare and try to give a althernative perspective... every one is complaining about 'thai' manners or lack, etc... thats a very ethnocentric but ex pat view point (like i say, here also people sit around and complain about how much better in south africa etc, )...

the point being that if u all want to sit around and complain or discuss same same everyday, then it quickly gets boring.... i mean: how much money should i give my thai girl? my thai girl dumped me?  (read: my brazilian girl, swedish volunteer girl ,etc)... the things that ARE different are exactly these small things: food, toilet culture, relation with parents etc and comparing to other places, not just where u are at, or where u directly came from (read: new zealand, australia, etc)

besides the fact that it seems to me that u all ought to be a bit more aware of the fact that some of u at least have neighbhors, friends, relatives (mostly issaan and north of course) who work here, and maybe i even know them (small world after all), and i make an effort to speak their language, and help their (usually ) idiot bosses to understand them and see them as people and not as chattel to be used abused and thrown out and if it wasnt for thai visa, i wouldnt understand so much about their way of thinking and feeling and why sometimes they do what they do which causes so much problems between employer and employee and as bannork knows, if u think that the thai interpreters here from bangkok give a flying &lt;deleted&gt;.., then u are wrong...

and its also nice i think to learn about other ways in other countries besides the anglo/saxon types since we are also a bit third world, unsanitary, unorganized, etc etc... which puts your'll complaints in some perspective i should think.....

i am considering moving in the way future (depending on a particular person though due to cultural and monetary problems it probably will not be so as he is supporting a massive amount of family and i will never be able to help him )  and u all assume an awful lot about background so for u to understand that i come from a totally different way of living (no money, never will have, etc etc etc) i feel a need to expain more in depth....

no offense of course 

if u dont like my posts so i;ll back off, too bad since u lack a group of women to offset the expat men complaints and i have a different and agricultural background than most, etc... dont like dont read

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nice post Bina

[BaanOz]

When a younger person noticiably walks in front of an older person, the tendency is to bend/bow so that your head is lower than theirs.

When indoors and the more senior person is sitting down, do whatever you can not to pass in front of them, and if you have no choice, bend down REALLY low when you pass in front of them, or get pass them on your knees (which is usually reserved for someone with a lot of status or is used to that treatment).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow, I'll have to read this to my relatives arriving tonight who have never been to LOS before!

I tried to let them know about Thai greetings, customs and stuff but were not too interested at the time. I hope they pick it all up quick because it's into Krung Thep and straight out to Isaan tomorrow afternoon!

Cheers BaanOz

[Greer]

It's interesting to see the effect that living in Thailand has on ones habits and interaction with others - even other farang, and often, even when travelling in other countries.

I find myself ducking my head a little if I have to pass between people, or walk in front of someone watching TV. It's become quite difficult to NOT do it now while I am in Australia - the locals don't notice it much here anyway, but I sometimes feel a little self concious doing it, so I try not to - and that's when I feel as if I am being quite disrespectful to others...weird that I should feel that way.

I also find myself feeling somewhat revolted or at least uncomfortable when people use their feet to do things (other than walking of course), such as pushing a door open or closed etc. I used to get in all sorts of trouble for that both from my Thai ex-wife and my present Thai wife, so eventually stopped doing it completely.

Related to this, I find myself thinking that someone was very impolite if they even jokingly pretend to kick someone on the bottom or pat someone else on the head - and I feel this even when it happens among farang, even outside of Thailand...

I guess I have accepted these Thai ways and now find some farang behaviour to be almost unacceptable - but don't get me wrong, I am not one of those farang who have "gone native" by any means...but in these small things, I see the effects of being part of this culture for a long time..."like the blue paint in the chalk, Mrs Marsh"......Gee! It really does get in...!

[wolf5370]

I have always tried to avoid walking between people that are talking. If I can't - in a corridor perhaps - then in duck under their eye level and move quickly between them. Its the way I was brought up perhaps, can't remember ever being told to do it, just seems right. Although I have now adopted the same 'ritual' when passing a monk, talking or not - adaption I suppose.

[Voo Doo]

BaanOz,

Would you bow, or at least nod your head a little, when walking between two elderly Thai people who are talking together?

I find myself doing it, but not in an exaggerated manner.

Even when back in the UK, I'll find myself saying "excuse me" if I step inbetween people, especially if noticably older.

Just upbringing wherever you're from.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Absolutely. Good manners are always good manners no matter what and where you from. Respect the local customs. Farangs been showing and teaching young Thai generation "EUROPEAN style of living" which make us more like "being home". ... &lt;deleted&gt;!

"Land of smile" >>> must be something in it... huh? Tell me if I'm wrong.

[bina]

what's wrong with going native as far as polite behavior, u dont have to go native with native rude behavior unless you are young and hanging out with a 'native' group of poeple but nothing wrong, and quite natural actually, to pick up mannerisms, including speech patterns, and slang that fits a situation better than your native language, in your adopted country... thats the whole point, cross cultural exposure... and when u go back to your original culture, well, u suffer reverse culture shock... happens ot all people i would think...but it expands your brain horizons

on the other hand, falangs probably miss out on subtle impolite activities, including thsoe that are meant to be impolite, even kids doing things...

thanx for nice comments btw

yeah the kids kneeling bit made me feel a bit wierd i hadnt been warned about that one; and i watched a maid in ban chiang crawl to get past the lady of the house, every single time (and i cringed cause it seemed demeaning to me, after all the maid is not 12 years old but an older woman also) but she 'hai kriat mak mak' and frankly i dont feel demeaned to crawl really low when i had to go past friend's ancient grandma or past monk... it seems sort of natural actually since everyone else does it too...