Leaving Food Out In Heat

[leininger]

Usually my wife cooks breakfast early morning and then leaves it out on counter and I eat it for lunch. Sometimes this is 4-5 hours this stuff is sitting out in 38 degrees heat. When I say this is unhealthy, I just get same answer. "If this is bad why I not dead? I eat food same way all my life and no problem." Since this appears to be true, I figure okay and I eat the stuff and usually no problem for me either. However a few days ago it was very hot and I ate some curry vegetable stuff and have been sick with pain and diarrhea ever since. My wife however ate same thing with no problem. So I figure either of 3 things. 1-the problem is not from food 2-since she ate much smaller amount of food it had no effect; 3-she is immune to whatever it was in food affected me. Also, it has been about 5 days now, and while symptoms are less now I am still not 100 per cent, so I am not sure of problem. I would appreciate hearing other people's experience, but no matter what the answer if this food is not in fridge I am not eating it. Thank you

[Sheryl]

It is certainly unwise to leave food out in the hot for hours. Some foods are more likely to go bad than others, but not a good idea for any food.

Thais do get food poisoning, quite often in fact. Most Thais that I know, will always put food bought at the market on the stove and heat for a while (to a boil or nearly) before eating just in case.

Your wife may be one of those lucky people who are simply less susceptible.

[leininger]

Thank you Sheryl. Perhaps she is less susceptible, as you say, however she is in fact often complaining of stomach trouble, which she generally blames on worrying and "thinking too much."

[crazydrummerpauly]

Ha..that's what I call going native ! Leininger, I am 100% with you on this one.

As far as I'm concerned, there is only one safe approach here, and that is to enact

the Precautionary Principle in most things - if there's a fair chance any thing Thai

might be dangerous to a farang constitution or life, I just DON'T DO IT - especially

if the TGF insists that "It no problem" - why should I trust the opinion of someone

who's never left the country and never ever eats 'foreign food' ? I'm a butcher's son,

so grew up in a culture of food safety - leave food out in 38degrees ? - haha - nah,

but then, back home in the UK we all die of heat stroke as the temperature breaks

the 30degree barrier anyway ! Too dead to eat manky food !

Seriously, as you obviously know by now, diahrrea can be very bad news indeed - the

overriding consideration is to find out as quickly as possible if any case is bacterial d.

- symptoms can be quickly sourced on the web - cos you really need anti-biotics for

this - or rather, you did. But if it's not gone by the time you read this, a trip to the

local quack would still be advisable.

I know it sounds kinda negative, but my own instinctive reaction to any advice coming

from Thai associates about completely joining in with their cultural preferences - including

eating giant locusts, chameleons, bats etc... is to say thanks but no thanks. I think that

too many ex-pats think that unless they plunge 100% into the Thai way of life, they are

somehow being 'inauthentic' or 'half-hearted' about Thailand - up to them - but I'm happy

to stay with my own focussed reason/s for being here and swerve round anything that

makes me feel uneasy. What would most Thais do if the situation was reversed - plunge

100% into any of the western cultures ? - absolutely not.

The best of luck.

[BAYBOY]

Always amazed how often my wife will tel lme how one of her brother's has stomach troubles.

I am totally convinced that more Thais get these troubles than we are told about.

The father in law sells medicines and ointments and food poisioning remedies are his biggest sellers.

How ever they do seem to recover much quicker than us expats.

Lucky for me my wife has lived o/seas and is aware how food can go off in the heat. Never have these problems in our house.

BAYBOY

[phetaroi]

On the one hand, it seems pretty clear to me that they have built up a resistance over time.

But my partner never worries about...but also has little stomach upsets often...and just can't see that there's a relationship. When I came here a year ago I just started throwing away anything left out. Things changed rather quickly. And when it was brought up I simply said, "You have to have a little concern for my health, too." End of story...well, except that I still don't do much street food.

[moe666]

They do the same in the PI as well. I just donot eat left overs even here in the states after it has been refrigerated just doesn't taste the same.

In France they will leave the food out as well and no doggy bags.

[bina]

thai food usually is mostly veggies or meat that has been cooked, or if raw, eaten same day. they dont eat white creamy cheese, milk, raw eggs, mayonaisse or any of the things that farangs eat and need fridge. ive been eating unrefrigerated meat/whatever for the past ten years (and surrounded by animals and their food) and havent suffered. i did make sure when working with animals to wash hands well. especially after handling reptiles or chicks (salemanella sources).

now, israel used to be a country that induced diahreaa in travellers as well due to 'less clean' water, re used cooking oil, and other third world practices with food . we the long termerers and natives seemed to be immune. then we all began to be health concious and bottled water and cleaner food vendors/stores made us become more 'like americans' and now more people seem to be succeptible to stomach illnesses. every year we also have outbreaks of various stomach problems some due to giardia, some salamonella/shigalle and similar. also, even when people did have stomach problems, if they werent old or babies, it was considered a nuisance problem at best, a possible sick day or two at worst-- never getting meds but only strict instructions to measure the amount of water and other liquids being injested.

most of these stomach diseases are spread not by spoiled food but by non washing of hands , and our summer heat is conducive to helping these buggers procreate and spread.

so most likely, its not the food but who touched the food and if they used soap after the bathroom. and most likely your stomach is more sensitive. mine is made of steel. here too, the sticky rice and most of the food EXCEPT for shellfish and fish, dont go in the fridge (husband's thai habit); white rice is kept for one day or becomes fried rice or dog food. milk products are refrigerated. (and we get real heat in our apartment, no A/C). farang food is refrigerated.

ive never kept a sterile house, non of us here in my area do; our kids seem less sensitive to all sorts of things then the city kids do... and we still prefer soap and water to the alcohol hand scrubs that many seem to use. in husband's sis's house, i made sure that liquid hand soap wasa always available as well as dish detergent, no matter how 'native' the dish washing or toilet method used. makes all the difference.

bina

israel

[leininger]

Thank you all. All good advice and interesting. My wife cooks very little farang food, though she just made pancakes for breakfast, so I eat all Thai food partly out of necessity, though I do actually love most of it and I also am fortunate that I like and can tolerate very spicy food. However I am also not going to do everything that Thai people do. I do not eat bugs or things that are still moving. I did in the army but not if I have a choice. One thing I have learned and did not know before is that rice collects dangerous bacteria and should not be reheated unless refrigerated quickly. Sometimes wife makes rice in morning and eats it at night.

There could be something in what you say about the reason for sickness being who handles the food. The same day I got sick, a woman from Burma washed the vegetables and perhaps her hands were not clean.

Another crazy thing. Even though wife knows I have been having stimach problems, she brings me a bowl of nam phrik and says, "This will make your stomach better."

[toptuan]

Judging by the number of students who rush out of my classes every day with a panic-stricken look, straight to the "hawng naam," YES, THAIS GET FOOD POISONING.

Edited May 25, 2010 by toptuan

[Samuian]

thai food usually is mostly veggies or meat that has been cooked, or if raw, eaten same day. they dont eat white creamy cheese, milk, raw eggs, mayonaisse or any of the things that farangs eat and need fridge. ive been eating unrefrigerated meat/whatever for the past ten years (and surrounded by animals and their food) and havent suffered. i did make sure when working with animals to wash hands well. especially after handling reptiles or chicks (salemanella sources).

now, israel used to be a country that induced diahreaa in travellers as well due to 'less clean' water, re used cooking oil, and other third world practices with food . we the long termerers and natives seemed to be immune. then we all began to be health concious and bottled water and cleaner food vendors/stores made us become more 'like americans' and now more people seem to be succeptible to stomach illnesses. every year we also have outbreaks of various stomach problems some due to giardia, some salamonella/shigalle and similar. also, even when people did have stomach problems, if they werent old or babies, it was considered a nuisance problem at best, a possible sick day or two at worst-- never getting meds but only strict instructions to measure the amount of water and other liquids being injested.

most of these stomach diseases are spread not by spoiled food but by non washing of hands , and our summer heat is conducive to helping these buggers procreate and spread.

so most likely, its not the food but who touched the food and if they used soap after the bathroom. and most likely your stomach is more sensitive. mine is made of steel. here too, the sticky rice and most of the food EXCEPT for shellfish and fish, dont go in the fridge (husband's thai habit); white rice is kept for one day or becomes fried rice or dog food. milk products are refrigerated. (and we get real heat in our apartment, no A/C). farang food is refrigerated.

ive never kept a sterile house, non of us here in my area do; our kids seem less sensitive to all sorts of things then the city kids do... and we still prefer soap and water to the alcohol hand scrubs that many seem to use. in husband's sis's house, i made sure that liquid hand soap wasa always available as well as dish detergent, no matter how 'native' the dish washing or toilet method used. makes all the difference.

bina

israel

thank you for the enlightenment an sharing you insight gained through experience!

a agree 100% - as a foreigner in asia since the 70ties, living in Thailand the last 20 years.

in the early day here on Samui - there was simply no fridge because NO electricity.... how to chill foodstuffs?

Ice? - if the food is not all wrapped separately, the remaining water will be a breeding ground like a petri dish in the laboratory.

There is no problem, in Italy same thing, n the heat certain food stuffs keep well, even eggs - if the are well fried/cooked!

Nothing raw, what has once been alive will keep - however.... hat is why so many Indians are vegetarians! ;-)

That is why Isaan is having fermented fish instead of raw, that is why there is so much dried fish and meats

or things are fried to "death"

And yes, I agree very much on the point bina made:

WE are tending to over sanitized our lives, our environment and yes, ourselves,

everywhere are disinfectants, chlorine, halogen bleachers, radiated for shelf life,

microwaved, homogenized, pasteurized, buffered, emulagators added...

and treated, de naturalized in many unaccountable ways -

that is the point and NOT how food stuffs are kept here n these temperatures!

Believe it or not, I have raw oysters and raw shrimp, sashimi - once in a while -

I know where and never had a problem!

still in general I prefer fresh food, fresh prepared,from fresh ingredients... but that is a different story!

Judging by the number of students who rush out of my classes every day with a panic-stricken look, straight to the "hawng naam," YES, THAIS GET FOOD POISONING.

Not necessarily "food poisoning"!

very spicy foodstuff, and not "heavy" ingredients , like an 16 Oz. steak ,will momentarily have just the same effect.... ever had really spicy som tam and or combined with nam prik?

Edited May 25, 2010 by Samuian

[Donnyboy]

how often do you hear thais say "pa tong" ? (sore tummy)

i hear all the time.

there needs to be more education about food safety in this country

[dumball]

'leininger' date='2010-05-25 08:41:00' post='3639927']

Thank you all. All good advice and interesting. My wife cooks very little farang food, though she just made pancakes for breakfast, so I eat all Thai food partly out of necessity, though I do actually love most of it and I also am fortunate that I like and can tolerate very spicy food. However I am also not going to do everything that Thai people do. I do not eat bugs or things that are still moving. I did in the army but not if I have a choice. One thing I have learned and did not know before is that rice collects dangerous bacteria and should not be reheated unless refrigerated quickly. Sometimes wife makes rice in morning and eats it at night.

There could be something in what you say about the reason for sickness being who handles the food. The same day I got sick, a woman from Burma washed the vegetables and perhaps her hands were not clean.

Another crazy thing. Even though wife knows I have been having stimach problems, she brings me a bowl of nam phrik and says, "This will make your stomach better."

[/quote

You can back up the lack of hygene by Thai as much as you like to fool yourself , stomach problems are mostly caused by FOOD OR WATER , you consume both on an almost hourly basis throughout the day . It has been written here that many villagers suffer stomach problems and too many children die before the age of 5 , mostly caused by daily sustinance ( FOOD AND WATER ) , I refuse to allow anything past my lips that I consider to be unhygenic , it is MY body that may suffer in the long run .

You are an adult , make your decission not to eat stale/contaminated food and stick by it , your later years will show you how much you have or have not abused your body , those cramps , pains bodily functions are all warnings emmited by your body that you are maltreating it , listen , learn and live a healthy , long life , no matter how people in ignorance treat theirs .

By the way , had the Burmese lady had any thing on her hands , it would have been obliterated by washing the vegatables if done correctly in GOOD QUALITY WATER , too many use what comes out of a village tap , buy yourself a good quality ceramic filter and many of your problems will go away .

[toptuan]

Judging by the number of students who rush out of my classes every day with a panic-stricken look, straight to the "hawng naam," YES, THAIS GET FOOD POISONING.

Not necessarily "food poisoning"!

I assume the pain on their faces reflects the acute disappointment of missing my riveting lectures!

[krading]

The only meal that has really given me the trots was a Lao dish called 'Goy', sort of marinated raw meat.

Liked it but both times I tried it I had the squirts for a week.

[Thaddeus]

The only meal that has really given me the trots was a Lao dish called 'Goy', sort of marinated raw meat.

Liked it but both times I tried it I had the squirts for a week.

Same here, except I only did it once.

[dumball]

toptuan' date='2010-05-25 12:23:29' post='3640515'Samuian' post='3640068' date='2010-05-25 09:40:20']'toptuan' post='3640011' date='2010-05-25 10:13:00']Judging by the number of students who rush out of my classes every day with a panic-stricken look, straight to the "hawng naam," YES, THAIS GET FOOD POISONING.

Not necessarily "food poisoning"!

I assume the pain on their faces reflects the acute disappointment of missing my riveting lectures!

Fantastic , perfectly honest retort toptuan .

I would presume that when the body reacts to something you have ingested , it is a form of poisoning to ones system that can be minor to major , even gird or hiccups is a form of bodily discomfort , often passed off as "I like that food " . Be attentive to your body and take action to prevent re-occurances before you need the incovenience of a physician , especialy in regard to spices which can cause irripareable damage , do not eat just to please or because you are not being understood , it is more benificial to your body to upset a persons EGO .

[Robby nz]

People who can live on McD's should be able to eat anything

But seriously there is a lack of any idea about hygene in this country have a look round a Thai market and you will see meat and fish (long time no sea) both raw and cooked sitting out in the sun all day no worries.

Another thing I dont like are tha ants, when I spray them I get told the chemicals are unhealthy but I recon the ants are worse, where have been before they came to our kitchen?

[tigerfish]

one thing i can never understand is. i used to work at smithfileds meat market back in london for a butcher/catering firm. everything used to have to be temperature controlled and the meat was probed regulary. we used to have great trouble around religious and bank holiday, aswell as over the weekends in the summer, keeping the meat fresh. especially the pork and chicken.

but if you look at thailand though its a far greater heat out here, compared to anything you get back in the u.k. and plus have you ever seen the little glass cabinets that most small food shop vendors have. they are like some kind of tiny greenhouse, but yet their meat never seems to go off when put out in the midday sun.

[thefusilier]

"If this is bad why I not dead?"

That sounds like the same ignorance I've heard from a smoker justifying his habit - "my father smoked all his life and live to be 90."

[Jimi007]

My GF used to leave food out all the time! I explained that it isn't healthy. I would ask; are you going to eat this now? If not put it in a container and in the fridge, that's what it's for! I taught her to use the microwave to reheat things. She doesn't cook much, I usually do the cooking, so I have very few stomach problems. She still goes out and eats some smelly stuff and complains of jep tong. Well, what did you eat? When I eat out I seem to have more problems. Between the not washing hands with soap, using dirty water to "wash" dishes, etc.

It's pretty funny, she eats old fermented fish and other things I think stink! I eat cheese and she thinks it stinks! I used to eat or try most anything, but I don't anymore. I know what I like and what I don't. Plus I enjoy cooking!

[ChangMaiSausage]

Funnily (well not funny) I woke up last night 03:00 with an upset stomach and I'm still struggling (mad dashes to the the loo) I ate yesterdays chicken panang, it was spicy but nothing diferent to what I noramlly eat.

Back to the post - my wife continues to leave food out in the kitchen we are in the Middle East and the temperatures are even higher than in Thailand, she never seems to get an upset stomach it amazes me what/the ammount she can eat.

[Thongkorn]

Thais seem to do every thing us falang are told not to do, like eating chicken bones , making soup with pork, beef and fish, Putting things together in the fridge and not separating them, meat from fish ext, I think that they build up an immunity against germs , where as we are to clean, every thing is nearly sterile before we touch or eat anything.

[Bobr]

I'm amazed that even the big stores, such as Tesco, Carrefour and Big C leave their cooked food out all day. They generally seem to make it in the morning and it sits at room temperature all day. Playing Russian roulette with food poisoning is quite common here.

[dumball]

='tigerfish' date='2010-05-26 10:32:05' post='3643345']

one thing i can never understand is. i used to work at smithfileds meat market back in london for a butcher/catering firm. everything used to have to be temperature controlled and the meat was probed regulary. we used to have great trouble around religious and bank holiday, aswell as over the weekends in the summer, keeping the meat fresh. especially the pork and chicken.

but if you look at thailand though its a far greater heat out here, compared to anything you get back in the u.k. and plus have you ever seen the little glass cabinets that most small food shop vendors have. they are like some kind of tiny greenhouse, but yet their meat never seems to go off when put out in the midday sun.

Bacteria is the cause of sickness , often ingested but never seen , many things people consume does not give the impression of being contaminated , do you think bacteria put up little signs to warn you they have taken up residence ? When In doubt , throw it out .

[bina]

good thing u never caught me sharing an ice cream cone with one of my goats.... )

sources of clean water and hand washing are the two main prevantitives against getting many stomach illnesses from bacteria/parasites/viruses/chemicals. obviously spoilage is an other cause but one man's spoilage is an other man's kimchee or plaa raa or rockfourt cheese. here, we consider humous one of the main vectors /sources of food poisoning no matter where u eat it. and yet all our kids take it in sandwiches to school (non airconditioned middle eastern temps). the only thing i cant eat is falafel in recycled oil. but almost all the travellers here from europe and the states get stomach problems even when eating in places that i and my kids eat all the time. resistance built up.

and here also we have runs of diahrea in the baby/childrens' day care places no matter how much bleach is used. it used to be that all the children would be allowed to play together in the same tub of water in summer. now, every small child has his own basin. we used to use bars of soap and regular towels to dry hands after bathroom/shower - now its liquid antibacterial soap and paper towels. the kids even drank from the same glass filled with juice, refilled to each child. this was common in the army also until recently when every person needs his /her own mess kit. its quite common to hear of someone's baby/child getting an IV rehydration or having to drink pediatric rehydration stuff due to mild dysentery/other diahreaa types but by the time the kids go in to army, they seem hardy and able to w ithstand field conditions of food, and travelling to remote places with less reprucussions then european/states kids. emperical info only, but costs me a fortune in bottled water when my parents come to visit...

bina

israel

[phetaroi]

"If this is bad why I not dead?"

That sounds like the same ignorance I've heard from a smoker justifying his habit - "my father smoked all his life and live to be 90."

Absolutely.

I guess I am over-attuned to the food cleanliness issue for two reasons. First, I have a very sensitive intestinal system. I often pay the price. And for me it usually takes days to get back to normal. Second, my dad was in the food service management industry for much of his life. First as a restaurant owner, and later managing food preparation in the military. During family picnics and reunions he would often throw whole dishes of food away, sometimes upsetting family members. But, as he always said, "In my business if I am careless with food cleanliness, I don't make one person sick, I make a thousand people sick.

Thai people seem to think it's just a natural fact of life that you get the Big D. They just don't get that there's a relationship between the food cleanliness and storage and stomach ills.

Over the years there's no place I've ever regretted going in Bangkok or Thailand...except once...when I wandered into an old-fashioned "wet market" and saw the meat hanging out in the steamy heat, laying on unhygienic tables, and being chopped and sliced by people that looked none to clean. One of the sights to Thailand that has stayed with me far longer than that lovely beach down at Phuket!

[syd barrett]

I am amazed as well. Mrs. Barrett has never had loose bowels as a result of eating rotting food in nine years.

I really believe that Thai folks have some kind of immunity to this kind of eating behaviour.

[Chaimai]

Probably too much information, but I haven't had a solid cr4p in Thailand in almost 5 years

[Goinghomesoon]

My MIL puts everything straight in the meat-safe after meals, and is adament nothing should be touched by flies or bugs. The meat-safe is in the coolest part of the house too, which I understand is how meat was always stored in Oz in the colonial days (nowadays meat safes are "antiques" even tho my grandma still used hers when I was a kid in the 70s). And the meat is always either v.salty or covered in chili, so that might help. Never had a problem and neither have my two children (who came along before the Thai partner and are not Thai themselves). Thai partner has great trouble with stomach vs western food, so maybe it's often a combination of new foods, rather than actual dirty food?

Edited May 30, 2010 by Goinghomesoon