Thai Court Approves Arrest Warrant Against Thaksin On Terrorism Charge

[kuffki]

@Opalhort: The short answer is there is no internationally established definition: however, as an example the FBI summarises this as

"Terrorism is the unlawful use of force or violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives".

Regards

yes, this about sums up the PAD when taking over the 'only' international airport in a major tourism country in high season. Well done for your observation!

BTW b4 anyone says phuket and chaing mai are int!! think again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did you know the PAD takeover cost MORE yes MORE in dollars to the economy than the red's protest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What does PAD have to do with current arson and Thaksin charge?

[nickupton]

Name one country or journalist with links that has called Frank Sinatra or the reds terrorists! They are a rabble run by a criminal, but terrorist is the wrong terminology. Once you call someone that, there is no recourse and u start to look very stupid when nobody (apart from the imbeciles on here) calls them that

I agree that the term terrorist is thrown around far too often by governments all around the world, however, I would have thought the random grenade attack on Saladaeng skytrain station was without doubt a terrorist attack as it targeted random protestors and passers-by, it certainly instilled terror in a lot of people.

The pre planned arson of many large buildings around Bangkok could also be construed as an act of terrorism, if they had been bombed using explosives I don't think anyone would argue that it was a terrorist attack, I am not sure it makes any difference that it was petrol bombs that did the damage.

The laying of tyres on the skytrain could also be construed as a terrorist attack, attempting to derail the train.

one person unfortunately died during the skytrain grenade that has never been proven to be a red shirt action. If so, I condemn it, but the lack of proof condems it more! The attacks on central world were known about in advance so the govt turned off the water in the vicinity!! Therefore the sprinklers did not kick in. Fishy or not?? Tyres on the skytrain was a very minor event that was resolved quickly and dismissed by the higher echelons of the red party. There was no inherent risk in that, just stupidity by a few numbskulls!

The grenade attack has not yet been proven to be a redshirt act, but I think it likely that it will be.

The fact that the sprinklers were turned off is irrelevent in concern to whether a terrorist attack was made or not. A terrorist attack is not invalidated because some aspect of health and safety was not adhered to. (I agree that the attacks could have been prevented though, if that is what you are implying).

I did say that the tyre incident could be construed by some as a terrorist attack - it is certainly a point that could be argued in a law court, personally I believe it to be just another idiotic act by redshirts which they didn't think out and could have led to injuries. However, it remains that it was possibly an attempt to derail a train and the fact that the redshirt leaders dismiss it doesn't mean others will. Redshirts are not the law any more.

[saintofsilence]

A lot of people on this thread are not taking these terrorism charges serious enough , wait a few days and this will spread world wide , governments will not stand back anywhere.

He is charged with Terrorism , there is a lot of people dead the city has been burnt ,and bombings have occurred innocent people shot and it is alleged that he has funded it.

I would expect him to be arrested within the next 14 days and he is most likely being followed now.

[misterjag]

A couple of terrorists

One down one to go!

They should let Col. Romklao's regiment have him for a little fun and M-79 DANCE!

Supporting and endorsing assassinations is allowed now under ThaiVisa forum rules?

If they did assassinate him, Thaksin would make a perfect martyr for the Red Shirt cause.

[A_Traveller]

Name one country or journalist with links that has called Frank Sinatra or the reds terrorists! They are a rabble run by a criminal, but terrorist is the wrong terminology. Once you call someone that, there is no recourse and u start to look very stupid when nobody (apart from the imbeciles on here) calls them that

at least THIS imbecile can get quotes right

Thaksin is wanted on charges of terrorism as of today. He's made "the list". Your opinion doesn't really matter

The government of Thaiand calls him a terrorist and Thailand is a strategic partner for many countries so at the very least they will prevent him from travelling to any of those countries. No other country HAS to call him a terrorist. They just have to say "Today, we have arrested Thaksin on a warrant issued in Thailand. The charge is Terrorism." They don't have to call him anything at all except a person wanted by the Kingdom of Thailand, a country they have an extradition treaty with.

name one journalist or country!!! u cannot u imbecile!!!!!!!!!!! Who is going to arrest him?????????????????????????????? Thailand is the laughing stock of the world with its ridiculous charges etc!. I do not like Thaksin. He is a criminal, not a terrorist. Big Big diff!!!!!!!!

Suggest you clean your keyboard you clearly have some sticky keys. As an aside, despite your somewhat hysterical tone, the actions of the UDD et al which clearly, as described by their leaders, was in the thrall of K. Thaksin, and therefore their actions, which do fall under the overall description of terrorism, [which you are happy to apply to PAD I note] means that he is caught under the same charge.

Regards

Edited May 25, 2010 by A_Traveller

[clown]

Looks like it just made CNN Headline News.

[opalhort]

@Opalhort: The short answer is there is no internationally established definition: however, as an example the FBI summarises this as

"Terrorism is the unlawful use of force or violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives".

Regards

Thanks. This makes it clear since the rest of the world usually takes the FBI definition as a guideline.

Under this definition the red leaders and Thaksin certainly qualify to face charges as terrorists.

Just let's hope the international community sees it the same way.

opalhort

[Insight]

Why does Thaksin bother having Robert Amsterdam defend him for all that (presumed) cash, when it's clear Bangkok Pundit can do the job instead? He's furiously Twitter'ing away right now...

[misterjag]

A lot of people on this thread are not taking these terrorism charges serious enough , wait a few days and this will spread world wide , governments will not stand back anywhere.

He is charged with Terrorism , there is a lot of people dead the city has been burnt ,and bombings have occurred innocent people shot and it is alleged that he has funded it.

I would expect him to be arrested within the next 14 days and he is most likely being followed now.

The Red Shirt cause will go on without Thaksin.

[jcbangkok]

Does this mean Thailand can ask Interpol to arrest him anywhere ?

They can ask but not sure if Interpol will get involved in this political circus.

If they don't then certainly Thailand will only honor Interpol warrants when Thailand feels it is there interest to do so.

[bkkjames]

Looks like it just made CNN Headline News.

They are just trying to calm the squeeky nerves that have raised by their reporting of the conflict.

I like this quote from the lawyer..

"The military-backed Abhisit regime has perverted justice through the laying of a charge that violates logic, law and any claim of hopes for reconciliation," said attorney Robert Amsterdam.

How does it violate law Mr. Dam?

[Jingthing]

Maybe Montenegro can seize the terrorist's in country assets. That might make it worthwhile for them.

[lungmi]

Every fully civilised country (US only partially) cannot extradite in a country with the death penalty.

Not exactly true. Some countries won't extradite someone for crimes likely to result in the death penalty. However, they will extradite people facing lesser penalties, or if the requesting state gives an undertaking not to apply capital punishment (ie. conditional extradition).

What I mentioned already.

[shrekroma]

the best thing this government could do is make Thaksin a "non issue",

This Gov might find it extremely hard to do so.

Considering Thaksin party has a good chance to be in office for next election to come.

[Gaccha]

Had a quick chat with a Thammasat law professor yesterday. He was very sure that this would change things.

I pointed out that InterPol has infuriated Thailand by declining to assist them in the arrest of Thaksin. "Yes" he said "but this is a terrorist charge". He seemed to think it obvious that this would change the dynamics.

I recall InterPol having Red Notices up for British citizens, who are evidently living quiet lives in the UK, where the police do not attempt to arrest them, and where their homes and sometimes telephone numbers can be found with a quick google search [see the enormous number of British newspaper articles on this subject about 3 years ago]. They are able to idly live their lives in peace despite being classed as 'fugitives' on the Interpol website becuase it is Libya that asked InterPol to put them on it. The UK simply ignores these obviously politically motivated requests by Libya.

So my impression was InterPol would just about assist any sovereign state with their dirty work, yet Thailand's humiliating treatment suggests otherwise. It does reinforce the point that in the (real) world outside Thailand this government is regarded as illegitimate, no matter how many democratic technologies it uses to usurp power.

Oh well, you can keep track here:

http://www.interpol.int/Public/Wanted/Search/Form.asp

Grounds for InterPol assistance in a case are provided here:

(http://www.interpol.int/Public/ICPO/LegalM...Sheets/FS07.asp)

[Jingthing]

Looks like it just made CNN Headline News.

They are just trying to calm the squeeky nerves that have raised by their reporting of the conflict.

I like this quote from the lawyer..

"The military-backed Abhisit regime has perverted justice through the laying of a charge that violates logic, law and any claim of hopes for reconciliation," said attorney Robert Amsterdam.

How does it violate law Mr. Dam?

Any legitimate government in the world that is functioning has the support of their military. If the Thaksin Puppet Party takes over, it will then be their military. Pretty lame, Mr. A.

The other poster made an excellent point. The western countries are very interested in maintaining Thailand's cooperation in their hunts for terrorists they are interested in, including things like stopping aiding of North Korea. If the west ignores this charge, they are seriously dissing not only Abhisit's government, but Thailand itself. It is not necessarily taking sides for them to cooperate with this as they won't be the parties doing the prosecution.

Edited May 25, 2010 by Jingthing

[nickupton]

Looks like it just made CNN Headline News.

They are just trying to calm the squeeky nerves that have raised by their reporting of the conflict.

I like this quote from the lawyer..

"The military-backed Abhisit regime has perverted justice through the laying of a charge that violates logic, law and any claim of hopes for reconciliation," said attorney Robert Amsterdam.

How does it violate law Mr. Dam?

I am not sure who is the most despisable these days, Thaksin or Robert Amsterdam.

Edited May 25, 2010 by nickupton

[hammered]

It seems they are aiming at using international terrorism conventions which definitely change things and work on an extradite or punish or extradite or prosecute basis. They also work on states working mutually together to find evidence (financial etc) for extradition or prosecution and the use of poltical defence from extradition is often removed.

I wouldnt be surprised if Thaksin left the EU quite rapidly.

Legally this does change things as in recent decades terrorism laws have removed "obstacles" that get in the way of prosecuting/extraditing terrorists.

[tonywebster]

I don't think this verdict is going to change much for him.

Oh yes it does.

Campaigning for someone convicted of corruption is one thing.

Also supporting the same person on terrorist charges will give even the forum Thaksin red apologists a few difficulties.

Not really, other countries will look at evidence before extradition, there will need to be hearings and most importantly they will look at if the charges are politically motivated and look at the likelihood of a fair trial.

all in all, same same, other countries will do exactly the same as they have been doing, sorry to burst your bubble.

[midas]

There's a number of ways to look at this.

1) While the warrant was issued in Thailand, a lot of countries pretty much consider Thailand as not much better than some Banana Republics, and therefore not pay much attention to this warrant.

2) Even should they recognize it, that does not mean that if he were apprehended that the country which apprehended him, or even if it is Interpol, will be willing to extradite him, as many, if not most civilized countries will not extradite someone who faces a possible death sentence if returned to their country of origin which has issued the warrant.

3) While this undoubtedly place some "pressure" on him, it hardly stops him in his tracks, as there are still a whole list of countries who will still allow him to come and go freely, based on their own corruption, and his financial contributions to it.

In my opinion, bringing Thaksin back to Thailand would be a major mistake by the current government. That would put the hero of the Reds on their soil, and they would probably storm any prison or jail he was being kept in, or at least attempt to. And should he die, whether by true accident or something like a heart attack, while in custody, the entire world would be suspicious, and the Reds would truly rampage then. What we saw in BKK and the provinces with fires and arson would look like a Sunday picnic and this country would go up in flames.

To me, the best thing this government could do is make Thaksin a "non issue", stop putting him on the front page every day, and stop trying to blame everything on him. Make him a non entity that doesn't exist. They have themselves to blame, in some ways, for continuing to make him an issue. My advice to the government: "Forget about him and get on with business".

But, hey, to me that would make sense, and everyone knows that "sense" is something in seriously short supply of here.

does any one think there is any chance Thaksin could just be abducted by " unknown persons " and

forcefully brought back ( the same way the Mossad did with Mordechai Vanunu who they picked up in Europe

before taking him back to Israel.)?

Edited May 25, 2010 by midas

[clown]

Maybe Montenegro can seize the terrorist's in country assets. That might make it worthwhile for them.

[tonywebster]

Maybe Montenegro can seize the terrorist's in country assets. That might make it worthwhile for them.

Shouldnt there be a trial and conviction before he is hung, drawn and quartered, it is this mentality that will make it difficult for any country with a good rule of law to extradite him, found guilty before he is even tried, clearly politically motivated and I can see the UK now opening their doors for him.

[Jingthing]

does any one think there is any chance Thaksin could just be abducted by " unknown persons " and

forcefully brought back ( the same way the Mossad did with Mordechai Vanunu who they picked up in Europe

before taking him back to Israel.)?

I don't think Thailand has this kind of expertise. It would also be very bad PR. Israel is beyond caring very much about international PR.

Edited May 25, 2010 by Jingthing

[hammered]

I don't think this verdict is going to change much for him.

Oh yes it does.

Campaigning for someone convicted of corruption is one thing.

Also supporting the same person on terrorist charges will give even the forum Thaksin red apologists a few difficulties.

Not really, other countries will look at evidence before extradition, there will need to be hearings and most importantly they will look at if the charges are politically motivated and look at the likelihood of a fair trial.

all in all, same same, other countries will do exactly the same as they have been doing, sorry to burst your bubble.

anti-terrorisnm conventions work on trying to make sure the poltically motivated notion is not allowed to interfere which is why these charegs are serious and why Amsterdam is going completely overboard. They also place obligations on countries to either extradite or prosecute themselves and at least encourage the arrestign state to look fo revidence for prosecution or extradition. We are talking about the lwaws the world has recently been finetuning to remove any form of obstruction of moving forward. This is not a case of arguing some criminal or corruption case is poltically motivated.

[Insight]

Maybe Montenegro can seize the terrorist's in country assets. That might make it worthwhile for them.

Shouldnt there be a trial and conviction before he is hung, drawn and quartered, it is this mentality that will make it difficult for any country with a good rule of law to extradite him, found guilty before he is even tried, clearly politically motivated and I can see the UK now opening their doors for him.

I can't. Not before all that business regarding the Man City purchase is cleared up anyhow.

[chantorn]

Maybe Montenegro can seize the terrorist's in country assets. That might make it worthwhile for them.

Shouldnt there be a trial and conviction before he is hung, drawn and quartered, it is this mentality that will make it difficult for any country with a good rule of law to extradite him, found guilty before he is even tried, clearly politically motivated and I can see the UK now opening their doors for him.

No need. The (yellow) people have decided. He is 100% guilty.

[Arkady]

This is a common misconception that extradition for capital offences is not possible from most countries. However, the US has successfully extradited many murderers, particularly from Canada, on the basis that the public prosecutor's office makes an undertaking to the extraditing government that it will not demand the death penalty. Most extradition treaties also require undertakings that the extraditee will not be tried on any further charges other than those specified in the extradition request.

My take on this is:

1) Western countries, such as France, that Thaksin has recently slipped into using his Montenegrin passport may now be too risky for him to visit, as he may be detained under house arrest in prison for a long period while they consider extradition. He may even actually get extradited, if he visits such countries. It may even get harder for Dubai to justify keeping him.

2) What is quite significant in the Thai legal context is that this is a charge that cannot be directly traced back to any the revolutionary decrees after the coup. The charge he was convicted on and nearly all the others pending were investigated by the AEC which was established as a result of a revolutionary decree. Thaksin's strategy all along has been to annul the 2007 constitution and the temporary constitution after the coup which provide legality to the revolutionary decrees and the coup itself. By reverting to the 1997 constitution all charges investigated by the AEC could be declared null and void. There is one other case that was brought by the DSI, rather than the AEC, to do with assets concealment to do with the ownership of SC Assets. This case was squashed by the DSI when PT was in power but the current government is looking into reviving it, following relevant evidence that came out in the Supreme Administrative Court assets confiscation against Thaksin. Since the asset concealment and terrorism cases are both terrorism cases, neither can be tried in absentia without the defendant at least being in court to hear the charges. The asset concealment case looked pretty clear cut to me from what has been made publicly available on it. However, Thaksin has successfully had in quashed once already and it is much less controversial and emotive than the terrorism case. If a Pheua Thai government tries to have the terrorism case quashed in future, it is easy to imagine that this would generate a far more emotional reaction to Bangkokians, who have seen their city held to ransom and then torched by Thaksin's supporters, than the sale of Shin Corp.

3) I don't think the government really wants him back, as he would a rallying point. I think they want to restrict his movements even further, hamper his PR efforts abroad and make it harder for him to get rid of charges against him by reverting to the 1997 constitution.

Edited May 25, 2010 by Arkady

[tonywebster]

I don't think this verdict is going to change much for him.

Oh yes it does.

Campaigning for someone convicted of corruption is one thing.

Also supporting the same person on terrorist charges will give even the forum Thaksin red apologists a few difficulties.

Not really, other countries will look at evidence before extradition, there will need to be hearings and most importantly they will look at if the charges are politically motivated and look at the likelihood of a fair trial.

all in all, same same, other countries will do exactly the same as they have been doing, sorry to burst your bubble.

anti-terrorisnm conventions work on trying to make sure the poltically motivated notion is not allowed to interfere which is why these charegs are serious and why Amsterdam is going completely overboard. They also place obligations on countries to either extradite or prosecute themselves and at least encourage the arrestign state to look fo revidence for prosecution or extradition. We are talking about the lwaws the world has recently been finetuning to remove any form of obstruction of moving forward. This is not a case of arguing some criminal or corruption case is poltically motivated.

Do your homework then come back and chat, just because you want something to be a fact does not make it a fact. What the Thais consider terrorist will be seen as civil disobedience in many countries, the thais have thrown this word around too much, and while that has brainwashed some here foreign countries will see it for what it is and demand evidence, kasit calling him a terrorist does not make him one, the evidence will have to prove it. Luckily in the civilised world they are not prone to mass hysteria like this forum is, it is simply an allegation that needs to be proven.

[saintofsilence]

does any one think there is any chance Thaksin could just be abducted by " unknown persons " and

forcefully brought back ( the same way the Mossad did with Mordechai Vanunu who they picked up in Europe

before taking him back to Israel.)?

I don't think Thailand has this kind of expertise. It would also be very bad PR. Israel is beyond caring very much about international PR.

There would be a lot going on in behind closed doors , he is most likely being tracked for the past couple of weeks , there is enough intelligence out there to keep tabs on him as he not a bin laden , IF the Thai govt did not have the right tracking tools I am sure the US would assist if they are not already.

[midas]

Maybe Montenegro can seize the terrorist's in country assets. That might make it worthwhile for them.

Shouldnt there be a trial and conviction before he is hung, drawn and quartered, it is this mentality that will make it difficult for any country with a good rule of law to extradite him, found guilty before he is even tried, clearly politically motivated and I can see the UK now opening their doors for him.

No need. The (yellow) people have decided. He is 100% guilty.

Trial by Thai Judges would be trial by payment

If they are serious they would have to hand him over to The Hague ?

Edited May 25, 2010 by midas