Airport Rail Link (again Sorry)

[tartempion]

I stayed in The Pullman King Power last week, could see PT ARL station from my room on 16th floor.

Taxi to Swampy was 207+25 baht toll.

Was with wife and baby girl, 1 20kg bag.

Don't think I would ever walk the 500m from hotel exit to PT station, at 2x90 baht not worth the expense versus comfort taxi.

[Lakegeneve]

They've never run 6+ car trains as far as I know. The Express runs four cars - three for passengers and one for checked baggage (so maybe one or two pieces of luggage in there). I believe the stations are designed for eight-car trains and I saw some of these during the test period but never since. The City line runs three car trains.

Recently they've occasionally been using Express trains as City trains to ease congestion.

Thanks, I must have imagined that the trains were longer...!

The initial plans state that stations are actually designed for eventual 10 car rolling stock! That is meant to be from 2027. Now that the Airport Line has been confirmed to be the backbone of the HSR line to Rayong having long platforms at Makkasan (and Hua Mark) was a wise idea.

There are currently 5, 3 car Cityline sets and 4, 4 car Express sets. As mentioned at the top of the page, the SRT was granted funds to purchase 7 more 4 car sets which are due by 2014 (if they order them on time!). Until then, packed trains and non operational rolling stock ......

[Lakegeneve]

I stayed in The Pullman King Power last week, could see PT ARL station from my room on 16th floor.

Taxi to Swampy was 207+25 baht toll.

Was with wife and baby girl, 1 20kg bag.

Don't think I would ever walk the 500m from hotel exit to PT station, at 2x90 baht not worth the expense versus comfort taxi.

Of course, in your context this is a no brainer. 99.99% of people with a wife, a baby & large luggage would do the same. Each and every journey is different and has its own needs.

However, if there was heavy rain and if it was peak hour with crawling traffic it is good to know that you have the ARL option, right? No need to be stressed stuck in a taxi with a worrying wife and potentially crying baby when you could spend all of 15mins stress free to the airport.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

There are currently 5, 3 car Cityline sets and 4, 4 car Express sets. As mentioned at the top of the page, the SRT was granted funds to purchase 7 more 4 car sets which are due by 2014 (if they order them on time!). Until then, packed trains and non operational rolling stock ......

Given the track records of all involved, I wouldn't be holding my breath for them to make the specified deadlines...

In relation, still no new longer trains on the overcrowded BTS Sukhumvit line...though I do see a 4 train set rarely late in the evenings there.

[impulse]

Don't think I would ever walk the 500m from hotel exit to PT station, at 2x90 baht not worth the expense versus comfort taxi.

For me it's not about the savings- either in time or money. It's about the small but all-too-real chance of getting a yaba riddled taxi driver taking me on the white knuckle drive to or from the airport. I take the train whenever I can, then the MRT to 500 meters from my apartment.

[Lakegeneve]

There are currently 5, 3 car Cityline sets and 4, 4 car Express sets. As mentioned at the top of the page, the SRT was granted funds to purchase 7 more 4 car sets which are due by 2014 (if they order them on time!). Until then, packed trains and non operational rolling stock ......

Given the track records of all involved, I wouldn't be holding my breath for them to make the specified deadlines...

In relation, still no new longer trains on the overcrowded BTS Sukhumvit line...though I do see a 4 train set rarely late in the evenings there.

Ah but Tall John, one only needs to peruse another forum for good news on the BTS rolling stock front! I do hope it will bring a big smile, http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/406991-the-new-skytrain/page__st__75#entry5495038

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Thanks LG.... That's presumably good news about the soon to arrive BTS cars. But you're cheating a bit... since you only posted the news about the arrival date for those in the other TV thread around noon today...

But more to the point, my comment above about the track records of those involved with the ARL was more relating to the SRT folks, their involvement with the Thai government and their relation with their suppliers, which seems to be a very bad brew... That's the part that doesn't give great cause for optimism...

But if we wanted to talk about BTS or MRT, we could instead talk about the long promised but still not done pedestrian link between Makasan CAT and Petchburi MRT... or even better, the how many years delay in the opening of the On Nut-Bearing BTS extension because some twit(s) apparently forget to successfully order the proper signaling system.

When you see/hear/read enough of those kinds of things occurring here, one begins to take a very jaundiced view of the supposed timelines and completion dates that are thrown out by various government officials and then reported in the local media.

[teatree]

May ave. daily pax ridership-

Cityline: 36, 644 (Highest 52, 278 on 25 May, Lady Gaga concert)

Express: 2416

Source: http://www.posttoday...bdquo;น

I find the figure for the Express very difficult to believe. I use the Cityline often and rarely see even a couple of dozen people on the Express and usually see only around 10 or so. Sometimes there are literally 2 or 3 people using it.

And from time to time I even see the train pull and NOBODY gets out.

I think the numbers are good, there is no real need to inflate the figures as they have actually dropped a little from late last year when they where just under 3K. I also often see around 10-15 pax off peak but at peak it is not uncommon to see twice that number (20-30) and a bit heavier during morning/afternoon peaks. Some trains are nearly empty, agreed. There are 76 Express trains per day between the airport and PT and 54 between the airport and the CAT which means a total of 130 Express trains

The significant change, as it was always going to be was the price change. This, along with providing the PT option, boosted numbers almost immediately from 700 a day to over 2000+. They kept rising thereafter.

This Thairath article from last week says the numbers are around 3K (42K-47K for Cityline) which is about right but are not specific figures that the SRT normally gives. It also says that the Makkasan CAT to Phetchburi MRT viaduct is being fast tracked but then we have heard that before........

http://www.thairath....tent/eco/275175

Yes, it seems that the figures are correct. I didn't realise that there were so many express trains operating each day.

But this information just makes the whole idea of an express service even more retarded. 130 express trains per day??? Unbelievable.

[lomatopo]

I assume once the track reconfiguration takes place and there is but one Express Train which stops at MAS and PTH they could run a train every 15 minutes? Is that possible?

I think you have to have some frequency otherwise it is quicker to go on a City Line train?

I do like the Express given the extra comfort and quiet, and a mere 30 baht premium - I buy the 150 baht return ticket so 75 baht each way vs. 45 baht one-way on the City Line, unless a City Line train is departing within ~ 5 minutes and the wait for an Express is more than 15 minutes (at PTH).

I've been riding the Express PTH <-> SVB often, out-bound to the airport the train might have only 20 pax, in-bound from the airport loads are 3x - 4x that so 60 ~ 80 people. Not sure but this may be due in part to the confusing ticketing areas at the airport where many people are buying Express Train tickets without being aware of the City Line option? At least that's been my observation.

[Lakegeneve]

May ave. daily pax ridership-

Cityline: 36, 644 (Highest 52, 278 on 25 May, Lady Gaga concert)

Express: 2416

Source: http://www.posttoday...bdquo;น

I find the figure for the Express very difficult to believe. I use the Cityline often and rarely see even a couple of dozen people on the Express and usually see only around 10 or so. Sometimes there are literally 2 or 3 people using it.

And from time to time I even see the train pull and NOBODY gets out.

I think the numbers are good, there is no real need to inflate the figures as they have actually dropped a little from late last year when they where just under 3K. I also often see around 10-15 pax off peak but at peak it is not uncommon to see twice that number (20-30) and a bit heavier during morning/afternoon peaks. Some trains are nearly empty, agreed. There are 76 Express trains per day between the airport and PT and 54 between the airport and the CAT which means a total of 130 Express trains

The significant change, as it was always going to be was the price change. This, along with providing the PT option, boosted numbers almost immediately from 700 a day to over 2000+. They kept rising thereafter.

This Thairath article from last week says the numbers are around 3K (42K-47K for Cityline) which is about right but are not specific figures that the SRT normally gives. It also says that the Makkasan CAT to Phetchburi MRT viaduct is being fast tracked but then we have heard that before........

http://www.thairath....tent/eco/275175

Yes, it seems that the figures are correct. I didn't realise that there were so many express trains operating each day.

But this information just makes the whole idea of an express service even more retarded. 130 express trains per day??? Unbelievable.

I can show you pics of when the BTS started in late 99 and into 2000 it was common to jump on board and for a carriage to be near empty. Some said that the whole thing was a disaster and a 'white elephant' - sound familiar (read some of the earlier posts)

Yet the frequency was maintained thankfully to attract more pax and then obviously it kept growing.

[Lakegeneve]

I assume once the track reconfiguration takes place and there is but one Express Train which stops at MAS and PTH they could run a train every 15 minutes? Is that possible?

I think you have to have some frequency otherwise it is quicker to go on a City Line train?

Completely agree with loma. It will be easily possible and of course remember that the express was originally running at a 15min headway for the first 10 months or so (just to the CAT). Really it does need to be at least every 20mins but 15 mins would get a few more pax I suspect.

The track configuration money has been allocated and we are talking only a 10-15m missing section which probably requires around 30m of track and signalling to be reconfigured. Should be quick and relatively easy but no word yet of when....

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I've been riding the Express PTH <-> SVB often, out-bound to the airport the train might have only 20 pax, in-bound from the airport loads are 3x - 4x that so 60 ~ 80 people. Not sure but this may be due in part to the confusing ticketing areas at the airport where many people are buying Express Train tickets without being aware of the City Line option? At least that's been my observation.

When I made my Phyathai to Airport trip the other week, I didn't notice any signage at the ticket counters at either end calling attention to the fact that there are two different services and ticket pricing schemes on offer.

There may have been something there, but I didn't see it when I went to the ticket counters. I bought my tickets there...and didn't try or use the automated ticketing machines.

I saw, and posted above, the ticketing window fares poster for the various City Line stops. I didn't see anything comparable re the Express Line fares.

[teatree]

LAKEGENEVE wrote

"I can show you pics of when the BTS started in late 99 and into 2000 it was common to jump on board and for a carriage to be near empty. Some said that the whole thing was a disaster and a 'white elephant' - sound familiar (read some of the earlier posts)

Yet the frequency was maintained thankfully to attract more pax and then obviously it kept growing."

When the Cityline 1st started there were very few people using it but since then it has become so popular that quite often it is totally rammed. This is because, like the BTS, there is a real demand for it from the public.

This contrasts with the Express train that is only increasing in passenger usage due to the fare being slashed in half - it is now not much more to get a return Express ticket than a Cityline ticket to and from the airport - yet still very few people use it. They cut the fare in half and still only manage to get an average of 15 or so passengers? What a pathetic number.

The fact is that an express line is not needed. The Express takes 17mins to get to Phaya Thai and the Cityline takes 30mins. That's all of 13 mins difference! If the aiport was over an hour away then yes a direct train would make sense, but it isn't and it doesn't.

A huge amount has been invested (wasted) on the Express. Think of all the money spent on the trains, the track, the special air-con platform at Makkasan, all so that a train can pull up at the station totally EMPTY. And yet still the 90% empty Express has four carriages and (often) 110% full Cityline has three. Total madness.

The Express is clearly a complete failure that should never have been introduced. I can only assume that it is face saving that is keeping it going.

The express should be scrapped immediatley and the trains moved over to the Cityline.

As for white elephants, I think if you look up the term in a dictionary you see a picture of Makkasan Station with an Express train pulling up and three people (the driver and two policemen) getting out.

[tw25rw]

I think the express is needed. It's just that as is, its connections are poor. It terminates in the wrong places. If that area around Makkasan was to develop into somewhere visitors might want to stay/change trains, or if it continued on to Hualampong/Don Muang, loads more people would use it.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I tend to concur with TeaTree, at least in terms of the current operational and logistical aspects of the Express Line. As things stand now and for the foreseeable future, it certainly seems a waste of resources.

The City Line, on the other hand, is quite a success...but the quality of its operation and the passenger experience is being undercut and undermined by the poor operating practices of the ARL organization and it having to divert its short-handed resources to operate a useless Express Line, when those trains and resources could be better used on the City Line.

Just guessing, but probably the planning for the Airport Express Line dates back to the Thaksin era and his dreams of high roller Thailand Elite visas and such -- with all of that by now of course gone to seed.

In an era where Thais are lucky to not be shooting and bombing each other based on their color allegiances, where the government can't manage to keep the country from flooding, or keep its airports open and free from gun-toting parking lot wars, an Express Line airport rail service really isn't at the top of the list of needs for BKK.

[lomatopo]

I think we need to wait until the track re-configuration, and the resulting single Express train service to MAK and PTY, before we nail the coffin closed?

I think the general consensus has always been, even before service commenced, that the City Line service would be a boon for commuters from some eastern suburbs cutting down their one-way commutes from hours to minutes, in some cases. And that the Express service might be under utilized owing to any number of factors: schedule, terminus, connections, cost.

I think the SRT is still hoping for the revenue bump from increased ridership on the Express train, but maybe they'll have to throw in the towel and operate all trains as City service. Can the fourth (luggage) car be easily re-configured to accommodate passengers?

edited to add: It might be nice if airport employees were encouraged to use the Express service, perhaps through AoT/SRT/employer subsidies, so that they could ride either for the same out of pocket price?

[tartempion]

The fact is that an express line is not needed. The Express takes 17mins to get to Phaya Thai and the Cityline takes 30mins. That's all of 13 mins difference! If the aiport was over an hour away then yes a direct train would make sense, but it isn't and it doesn't.

Excactly, stupid planners.

All what's needed is a subway type of service, say one train every 5 minutes, efficiency it's called.

See Singapore.

i

[lapd]

LAKEGENEVE wrote

"I can show you pics of when the BTS started in late 99 and into 2000 it was common to jump on board and for a carriage to be near empty. Some said that the whole thing was a disaster and a 'white elephant' - sound familiar (read some of the earlier posts)

Yet the frequency was maintained thankfully to attract more pax and then obviously it kept growing."

When the Cityline 1st started there were very few people using it but since then it has become so popular that quite often it is totally rammed. This is because, like the BTS, there is a real demand for it from the public.

This contrasts with the Express train that is only increasing in passenger usage due to the fare being slashed in half - it is now not much more to get a return Express ticket than a Cityline ticket to and from the airport - yet still very few people use it. They cut the fare in half and still only manage to get an average of 15 or so passengers? What a pathetic number.

The fact is that an express line is not needed. The Express takes 17mins to get to Phaya Thai and the Cityline takes 30mins. That's all of 13 mins difference! If the aiport was over an hour away then yes a direct train would make sense, but it isn't and it doesn't.

A huge amount has been invested (wasted) on the Express. Think of all the money spent on the trains, the track, the special air-con platform at Makkasan, all so that a train can pull up at the station totally EMPTY. And yet still the 90% empty Express has four carriages and (often) 110% full Cityline has three. Total madness.

The Express is clearly a complete failure that should never have been introduced. I can only assume that it is face saving that is keeping it going.

The express should be scrapped immediatley and the trains moved over to the Cityline.

As for white elephants, I think if you look up the term in a dictionary you see a picture of Makkasan Station with an Express train pulling up and three people (the driver and two policemen) getting out.

I look forward to it proving you wrong just like it proved all the other gloomers wrong about Cityline. Funny you don't see them on here saying the whole SRT is a joke and it will fail because taxis make more sense blah blah. Where are those guys now? Complaining about something else on some other thread no doubt.

Just like everyone said the BTS would fail because see all the cars are empty and no escalators and taxis are better and cheaper and and and and......

Probably the same idiots who keep posting about how stupid all this public transportation is and we should all just keep sitting in traffic jams in taxis. They just change their handles.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Had reason to originate a trip on the ARL line from Makkasan Station this morning, via the Petchburi MRT subway line...

Just by way of update, even after all these months and many news account promises, I saw absolutely no sign of any work underway or even in preparation for the supposed convenient connection between the MRT Station and the ARL Station across the street.

Among the odd things I noticed, was arriving at and coming thru the Petchburi MRT station, the underground station itself seems to have almost no directional signage pointing passengers there toward the correct exit for heading to the ARL station. I believe the correct exit had signage labeled only relating to a nearby school and was absent of any mention of ARL. But once we finally did pick and head for the correct exit (by looking at one of the wall mounted station layout and exits maps), I did finally end up seeing one sign saying it was the correct route toward ARL.

Then once we got back above ground and crossed the road toward the ARL station, we walked down a wide paved concrete pavers sidewalk that immediately ran directly into a huge concrete support column for the station or the ARL tracks (I'm not remembering which). The support column blocked the entire width of the paved sidewalk. On one side was the vehicle access road to the station (the street), and on the other side was just empty dirt... Obviously, a real genius designed the layout for that one.

Then we went up the escalator into the Makkasan ARL station (my first time there) and arrived in a huge, cavernous and totally empty hall (at about 10 am on a Saturday morning.) No clear or particularly obvious directional signage of which way to go to access either the City or the Express Lines, and no one around to ask. Eventually found our way through some glass doors en route to the ticketing area for the City Line. Our City Line train was moderately full, some seats still available, at that hour of the morning.

The other curious thing I noticed, but didn't have time to stop and check about, was upon our arrival at Makkasan ARL, there was an Air Asia painted and logo'd mini tram vehicle sitting downstairs and took a load of arriving passengers who passed us going out as we were going into the terminal. Not sure what Air Asia was/is doing with a tram there or where it was taking those passengers.

Overall, my biggest impression was the stunning (at least for the present) waste of facility space that's occurring with the ARL terminal there. They've got this HUGE building that seems to be largely empty and unused...

Ohh...and the other thing.... as we arrived at Makkasan ARL, I didn't notice any meter taxis parked downstairs. Literally, I didn't see a single one.... unless they were queued in some other area of the station property. In contrast, when we arrived later at our Huamark ARL Station destination, there was actually a formal meter taxi queue with at least a half dozen waiting for arriving passengers.

[teatree]

LAKEGENEVE wrote

"I can show you pics of when the BTS started in late 99 and into 2000 it was common to jump on board and for a carriage to be near empty. Some said that the whole thing was a disaster and a 'white elephant' - sound familiar (read some of the earlier posts)

Yet the frequency was maintained thankfully to attract more pax and then obviously it kept growing."

When the Cityline 1st started there were very few people using it but since then it has become so popular that quite often it is totally rammed. This is because, like the BTS, there is a real demand for it from the public.

This contrasts with the Express train that is only increasing in passenger usage due to the fare being slashed in half - it is now not much more to get a return Express ticket than a Cityline ticket to and from the airport - yet still very few people use it. They cut the fare in half and still only manage to get an average of 15 or so passengers? What a pathetic number.

The fact is that an express line is not needed. The Express takes 17mins to get to Phaya Thai and the Cityline takes 30mins. That's all of 13 mins difference! If the aiport was over an hour away then yes a direct train would make sense, but it isn't and it doesn't.

A huge amount has been invested (wasted) on the Express. Think of all the money spent on the trains, the track, the special air-con platform at Makkasan, all so that a train can pull up at the station totally EMPTY. And yet still the 90% empty Express has four carriages and (often) 110% full Cityline has three. Total madness.

The Express is clearly a complete failure that should never have been introduced. I can only assume that it is face saving that is keeping it going.

The express should be scrapped immediatley and the trains moved over to the Cityline.

As for white elephants, I think if you look up the term in a dictionary you see a picture of Makkasan Station with an Express train pulling up and three people (the driver and two policemen) getting out.

I look forward to it proving you wrong just like it proved all the other gloomers wrong about Cityline. Funny you don't see them on here saying the whole SRT is a joke and it will fail because taxis make more sense blah blah. Where are those guys now? Complaining about something else on some other thread no doubt.

Just like everyone said the BTS would fail because see all the cars are empty and no escalators and taxis are better and cheaper and and and and......

Probably the same idiots who keep posting about how stupid all this public transportation is and we should all just keep sitting in traffic jams in taxis. They just change their handles.

I look forward to the whole idea of the Express service being cast into the fiery pit of Mordor, never ever to rear its ill-conceived, money wasting and unneeded head ever again.

Then resources can be fully devoted to the successful Cityline which is currently 'over subcribed' due to trains only running at intervals of between 12 and 20 minutes (due to the Express train using up available rolling stock).

[teatree]

Had reason to originate a trip on the ARL line from Makkasan Station this morning, via the Petchburi MRT subway line...

Just by way of update, even after all these months and many news account promises, I saw absolutely no sign of any work underway or even in preparation for the supposed convenient connection between the MRT Station and the ARL Station across the street.

Among the odd things I noticed, was arriving at and coming thru the Petchburi MRT station, the underground station itself seems to have almost no directional signage pointing passengers there toward the correct exit for heading to the ARL station. I believe the correct exit had signage labeled only relating to a nearby school and was absent of any mention of ARL. But once we finally did pick and head for the correct exit (by looking at one of the wall mounted station layout and exits maps), I did finally end up seeing one sign saying it was the correct route toward ARL.

Then once we got back above ground and crossed the road toward the ARL station, we walked down a wide paved concrete pavers sidewalk that immediately ran directly into a huge concrete support column for the station or the ARL tracks (I'm not remembering which). The support column blocked the entire width of the paved sidewalk. On one side was the vehicle access road to the station (the street), and on the other side was just empty dirt... Obviously, a real genius designed the layout for that one.

Then we went up the escalator into the Makkasan ARL station (my first time there) and arrived in a huge, cavernous and totally empty hall (at about 10 am on a Saturday morning.) No clear or particularly obvious directional signage of which way to go to access either the City or the Express Lines, and no one around to ask. Eventually found our way through some glass doors en route to the ticketing area for the City Line. Our City Line train was moderately full, some seats still available, at that hour of the morning.

The other curious thing I noticed, but didn't have time to stop and check about, was upon our arrival at Makkasan ARL, there was an Air Asia painted and logo'd mini tram vehicle sitting downstairs and took a load of arriving passengers who passed us going out as we were going into the terminal. Not sure what Air Asia was/is doing with a tram there or where it was taking those passengers.

Overall, my biggest impression was the stunning (at least for the present) waste of facility space that's occurring with the ARL terminal there. They've got this HUGE building that seems to be largely empty and unused...

Ohh...and the other thing.... as we arrived at Makkasan ARL, I didn't notice any meter taxis parked downstairs. Literally, I didn't see a single one.... unless they were queued in some other area of the station property. In contrast, when we arrived later at our Huamark ARL Station destination, there was actually a formal meter taxi queue with at least a half dozen waiting for arriving passengers.

The Airasia sponsored golf cart is free and is to transport passengers to and from the main station entrance to the main road near the MRT.

The utterly stupid thing is that this would not be needed if they had simply put an escalator where the cart now picks up passengers from the MRT - it would take you right to the edge of the platform. Instead they make everyone walk down the entire lengh of the platform and actually past it, into the main building, take a few twists and turns and finally getting to the platform after having done a good 5 min detour. The wasted man hours per year related to this must be staggering.

[josephbloggs]

Had reason to originate a trip on the ARL line from Makkasan Station this morning, via the Petchburi MRT subway line...

Just by way of update, even after all these months and many news account promises, I saw absolutely no sign of any work underway or even in preparation for the supposed convenient connection between the MRT Station and the ARL Station across the street.

Among the odd things I noticed, was arriving at and coming thru the Petchburi MRT station, the underground station itself seems to have almost no directional signage pointing passengers there toward the correct exit for heading to the ARL station. I believe the correct exit had signage labeled only relating to a nearby school and was absent of any mention of ARL. But once we finally did pick and head for the correct exit (by looking at one of the wall mounted station layout and exits maps), I did finally end up seeing one sign saying it was the correct route toward ARL.

Then once we got back above ground and crossed the road toward the ARL station, we walked down a wide paved concrete pavers sidewalk that immediately ran directly into a huge concrete support column for the station or the ARL tracks (I'm not remembering which). The support column blocked the entire width of the paved sidewalk. On one side was the vehicle access road to the station (the street), and on the other side was just empty dirt... Obviously, a real genius designed the layout for that one.

Then we went up the escalator into the Makkasan ARL station (my first time there) and arrived in a huge, cavernous and totally empty hall (at about 10 am on a Saturday morning.) No clear or particularly obvious directional signage of which way to go to access either the City or the Express Lines, and no one around to ask. Eventually found our way through some glass doors en route to the ticketing area for the City Line. Our City Line train was moderately full, some seats still available, at that hour of the morning.

The other curious thing I noticed, but didn't have time to stop and check about, was upon our arrival at Makkasan ARL, there was an Air Asia painted and logo'd mini tram vehicle sitting downstairs and took a load of arriving passengers who passed us going out as we were going into the terminal. Not sure what Air Asia was/is doing with a tram there or where it was taking those passengers.

Overall, my biggest impression was the stunning (at least for the present) waste of facility space that's occurring with the ARL terminal there. They've got this HUGE building that seems to be largely empty and unused...

Ohh...and the other thing.... as we arrived at Makkasan ARL, I didn't notice any meter taxis parked downstairs. Literally, I didn't see a single one.... unless they were queued in some other area of the station property. In contrast, when we arrived later at our Huamark ARL Station destination, there was actually a formal meter taxi queue with at least a half dozen waiting for arriving passengers.

The Airasia sponsored golf cart is free and is to transport passengers to and from the main station entrance to the main road near the MRT.

The utterly stupid thing is that this would not be needed if they had simply put an escalator where the cart now picks up passengers from the MRT - it would take you right to the edge of the platform. Instead they make everyone walk down the entire lengh of the platform and actually past it, into the main building, take a few twists and turns and finally getting to the platform after having done a good 5 min detour. The wasted man hours per year related to this must be staggering.

Seriously, that golf cart goes about 75 metres up and down the road - it's pointless if you ask me and is more of a token gesture than anything. Yes, there should be a direct link between the MRT and the ARL station - and it will come - but seriously, loosen up. Wasted man hours? Really?? By walking inside the building then going up, rather then going up then walking along a bit instead? Yes, I'm surprised Bangkok's economy can handle that crippling burden. Unbelievable.

[teatree]

Had reason to originate a trip on the ARL line from Makkasan Station this morning, via the Petchburi MRT subway line...

Just by way of update, even after all these months and many news account promises, I saw absolutely no sign of any work underway or even in preparation for the supposed convenient connection between the MRT Station and the ARL Station across the street.

Among the odd things I noticed, was arriving at and coming thru the Petchburi MRT station, the underground station itself seems to have almost no directional signage pointing passengers there toward the correct exit for heading to the ARL station. I believe the correct exit had signage labeled only relating to a nearby school and was absent of any mention of ARL. But once we finally did pick and head for the correct exit (by looking at one of the wall mounted station layout and exits maps), I did finally end up seeing one sign saying it was the correct route toward ARL.

Then once we got back above ground and crossed the road toward the ARL station, we walked down a wide paved concrete pavers sidewalk that immediately ran directly into a huge concrete support column for the station or the ARL tracks (I'm not remembering which). The support column blocked the entire width of the paved sidewalk. On one side was the vehicle access road to the station (the street), and on the other side was just empty dirt... Obviously, a real genius designed the layout for that one.

Then we went up the escalator into the Makkasan ARL station (my first time there) and arrived in a huge, cavernous and totally empty hall (at about 10 am on a Saturday morning.) No clear or particularly obvious directional signage of which way to go to access either the City or the Express Lines, and no one around to ask. Eventually found our way through some glass doors en route to the ticketing area for the City Line. Our City Line train was moderately full, some seats still available, at that hour of the morning.

The other curious thing I noticed, but didn't have time to stop and check about, was upon our arrival at Makkasan ARL, there was an Air Asia painted and logo'd mini tram vehicle sitting downstairs and took a load of arriving passengers who passed us going out as we were going into the terminal. Not sure what Air Asia was/is doing with a tram there or where it was taking those passengers.

Overall, my biggest impression was the stunning (at least for the present) waste of facility space that's occurring with the ARL terminal there. They've got this HUGE building that seems to be largely empty and unused...

Ohh...and the other thing.... as we arrived at Makkasan ARL, I didn't notice any meter taxis parked downstairs. Literally, I didn't see a single one.... unless they were queued in some other area of the station property. In contrast, when we arrived later at our Huamark ARL Station destination, there was actually a formal meter taxi queue with at least a half dozen waiting for arriving passengers.

The Airasia sponsored golf cart is free and is to transport passengers to and from the main station entrance to the main road near the MRT.

The utterly stupid thing is that this would not be needed if they had simply put an escalator where the cart now picks up passengers from the MRT - it would take you right to the edge of the platform. Instead they make everyone walk down the entire lengh of the platform and actually past it, into the main building, take a few twists and turns and finally getting to the platform after having done a good 5 min detour. The wasted man hours per year related to this must be staggering.

Seriously, that golf cart goes about 75 metres up and down the road - it's pointless if you ask me and is more of a token gesture than anything. Yes, there should be a direct link between the MRT and the ARL station - and it will come - but seriously, loosen up. Wasted man hours? Really?? By walking inside the building then going up, rather then going up then walking along a bit instead? Yes, I'm surprised Bangkok's economy can handle that crippling burden. Unbelievable.

I didn't say it's a crippling burden - it's just dumb.

A transportation system should be as efficient as possible, why would you walk for 3,4,5 mins (especially in the humidity of BKK) when you can get to the same place in 30 seconds. Just basic common sense really. If they had built the station a further 100 metres away from the MRT I suppose I would be the stupid one for pointing out that its not the best place to put it.

If you are designing a kitchen, you want everything you need to cook close at hand, right? You don't put the prep area in one room, the fridge up a flight of stairs and the cooker in the basement.

Unfortunately, the designers of the AL seem to share your view that thinking about the way people actually move through a tranportation system is anal and unnecessary. Such a shame as all it would have cost is a little bit of thinking.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The Airasia sponsored golf cart is free and is to transport passengers to and from the main station entrance to the main road near the MRT.

The utterly stupid thing is that this would not be needed if they had simply put an escalator where the cart now picks up passengers from the MRT - it would take you right to the edge of the platform. Instead they make everyone walk down the entire lengh of the platform and actually past it, into the main building, take a few twists and turns and finally getting to the platform after having done a good 5 min detour. The wasted man hours per year related to this must be staggering.

This deal with the tram is kind of weird.... I didn't stop to peruse that vehicle in detail when passing by. By as I passed it, I had no idea it was anything operated by ARL-SRT. I assumed from the appearance (loudly AirAsia) that it was something (for some inexplicable reason) just for arriving AirAsia customers. I didn't notice any ARL-SRT markings or signage on the tram. And I didn't see any signage around where the tram was parked near the station entrance indicating what it was for.

And of course, when we arrived at the MRT Petchburi Station and took its escalator up to ground level, there was no tram there and no signage indicating the presence of any tram service, at least that I saw. So, we, and a couple other passengers who arrived on our same MRT train, hoofed our way across the road and then down the long walkway from the Asoke Rd frontage to the ARL station entrance, where we found the single tram sitting parked.

That day, we weren't carrying any luggage since we weren't going to the airport. But other passengers who did arrive on our same MRT train were heading to the airport, and were lugging large suitcases and backpacks. And they, of course, ended up dragging their suitcases across the street and then down the access road to the ARL station. So the tram service was useless and relatively invisible for them and everyone else arriving via MRT.

One wouldn't think constructing some kind of a dedicated and/or elevated walkway from the MRT station to the ARL station would be such a difficult or complicated project. But for who knows what reason, TIT after all, that project has been promised in my recollection countless times but unfortunately seems to be going nowhere fast.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

A transportation system should be as efficient as possible, why would you walk for 3,4,5 mins (especially in the humidity of BKK) when you can get to the same place in 30 seconds. Just basic common sense really. If they had built the station a further 100 metres away from the MRT I suppose I would be the stupid one for pointing out that its not the best place to put it.

PS - I recalled today that the only signage coming out of the Petchburi MRT station entrance/exit that's closest to the ARL indicates that's for the Don Bosco School. I saw zero mention of the ARL on the main MRT entrance/exit signage inside the MRT station there.

Re TeaTree's comments about passenger convenience re the ARL stations, the differences among the different ARL stations do seem to be substantial.

The Phyathai BTS-ARL connection in my view was well planned and executed (leaving aside the issue of lacking escalators for luggage-toting passengers going down from the ARL platform to the lower levels).

The Petchburi MRT-Makkasan ARL connection in comparison is pretty poorly done at least for now, although, it's still only a 5 minute or so walk from one to the other. And at least the Makkasan ARL Station is relatively close to and visible from the main adjoining Asoke Rd.

The same with the Ramkhamhaeng ARL Station along Ramkhamhaeng Rd and across from the NASA Vegas Hotel complex. Close to the main road and relatively easy access.

On the other hand, the Huamark ARL Station seems to be stuck pretty much in the middle of nowhere in terms of easy walking access to the nearby major thoroughfares. For who knows what reason, it's set a LONG way off of the adjoining Srinakarin Rd... long, as in, you can't even see one from the other.

BTW, one thing I was thinking about on our recent trip, was trying to find information about what BMTA bus routes connect to or actually stop at the various ARL stations. You'd think that would be an obvious thing for those planning onward travel. But there seems to be zero mention of any bus connection info on the ARL English website, and the same for the BMTA English bus info web site.

Under "Bus Search" on the BMTA web site, there's the ability to search for routes that connect to various kinds of common places... universities, police stations, etc. And listed there are BTS and MRT stations... But again, zero on ARL stations. Why???

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

As for the issue of adding more escalators to the various ARL stations, I noticed this undated news release on the ARL website... Anyone have any idea if any of these promised improvements have actually been done as yet??

In addition, she also reported progress made in the installation of escalators at Phaya Thai, Ratchaprarop and Ramkhamhaeng stations that the installation is expected to be implemented in December this year and shall have been completed by June 2012. Meanwhile, other installations at Hua Mak, Ban Thab Chang and Lard Krabang stations shall have been undertaken following the bidding for its escalators in October 2011. The construction is expected to begin in February 2012, and it shall have been finished by August next year.

http://airportraillink.railway.co.th/en/10_footer/news_detail/32.html

[lomatopo]

One wouldn't think constructing some kind of a dedicated and/or elevated walkway from the MRT station to the ARL station would be such a difficult or complicated project.

If you look overhead you may realize how challenging it is to construct. They obviously have to clear the train tracks. Ultimately it will probably be narrow, steep stairs with 12 cut-backs requiring multiple climbs and descents, and completely impassable to all but those trained for gymnastics - tourists carrying bags, uh uh.

The last time I looked for it, any signage indicating a direction to/from the MRT it was black/white laser-printed A4 paper signs taped to the walls. But easy enough to just follow others who seem to know where they are going.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Well, they did manage to build and open the ARL... So you wouldn't think completing a single terminal to terminal walkway would be headed for taking just as long to complete as the entire project! BTS, by comparison, seems to be able to build new SkyWalks and BTS to major building connections on their routes with relative speed.

The last time I looked for it, any signage indicating a direction to/from the MRT it was black/white laser-printed A4 paper signs taped to the walls. But easy enough to just follow others who seem to know where they are going.

Didn't see any of those paper signs taped on the walls inside the Petchburi MRT station pointing the way to the ARL, though I may have missed them (wasn't really searching the station walls for that kind of signage).

As for following others, kind of hard to do if you're the one at the front of the procession.

[emilyb]

There's always someone around to divert attention from, or apologize for that idiotic Makkasan-Petchburi connection. I take it pretty regularly on my connection from ARL to MRT to get out to Bang Sue and there are many obvious ways it could've been handled, I suppose the cheapest and easiest to traverse being a skywalk jutting out from the middle floors of the SRT station descending to either the sidewalk or carrying on to the MRT (that one's a no-brainer).

Also, I've seen that convenience cart or whatever it's labeled at least 5-10 times and there's never been a driver in it or anyone using it, it's just parked there. I'm sure it gets used, but I've not been so lucky.

Other than the moronic lack of a Makkasan connection (which has been promised forever), though, the SRT is very nice and I appreciate it and I recommend it to people all the time.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I was thru the Petchburi MRT station and the Makkasan ARL station again today...

Just after lunch time about 1:30 pm, no trams in sight... Returning about 5 pm, two trams running between the Makkasan ARL station exit and the main Asoke road, though they don't cross the cross-street over to the MRT station side.

Now at least the ARL station has some small paper signs taped up outside referring to the free tram service. Unfortunately, looked and still didn't see any signs inside the MRT station directing passengers to the correct exit for reaching the ARL station.

Did see a lot of motocy taxi guys sitting around. But not a single meter taxi anywhere to be seen around the ARL station itself.

Did see an orange air con BMTA bus route number 556 sitting parked empty underneath the ARL station today. Not sure if that bus has a route via the Makkasan ARL, or the driver was just taking an afternoon siesta in the shade... The BMTA website doesn't show any route info for the 556 bus.

My early afternoon trip outbound on the City Line had the cars moderately busy, with all the seating taken, and some more people standing. Whereas the return trip at rush hour in the late afternoon back to Makkasan had my City Line train packed full.