Thai Police Force Must Undergo An Urgent Overhaul

[eddie61]

The good thing about the police is that they are such a bargain.

200 baht for a minor traffic offence, (100 for Thais), 500 baht for a serious one: I never did murder, but I am sure 20,000 baht would fix that, if you fixed it skillfully.

Actually, these guys are heroes of the libertarian revolution!

My only qualm is that they draw a salary, paid from our taxes.

I think that they should officially be freelance, IE no salary.

Go boys in brown!

Maybe all the farangs will be happy when Thailand is a police state like the UK and America?

[surangw]

how must does it cost these days to become a thai police ,and now much more to get a good location ?

[bangon04]

The Thai police are a bunch of criminals in uniform. Corruption is near-universal, and those who refuse to participate in corruption never rise to any rank of importance, so any good ones are unable to do much anyway.

They have zero oversight, and apart from other corrupt cops, zero accountability.

Weak judges and toady lawyers normally kow-tow to the cops. Foreign embassies recognise the problem, but are powerless to do anything, and basically only care about a case if it is in the newspapers back home.

Pray that you never appear on their radar scope, because there is no help coming if you do.

If you're lucky, your embassy will send you sandwiches in jail.

And despite what some people think they are not incompetent, they are extremely competent at what they do. Unfortunately one of the things they do is extort money from the people they are meant to be serving.

If one day the Thai in the street decided that he had enough of the corruption, set aside the mai pen rai attitude and actually tried to complain, who can he complain to?

The majority of Thais seem to be content with the system they have - otherwise they would complain more?

[wlcart]

This is precisely the reason Abhisit is needed in this country - he is honest. He knows how Thailand must change, what is needed both to improve law and order enforcement issues as well as to begin to confront corruption. A formidable task indeed, but Abhisit is Thailand's best chance to make some progress.

Couldn't agree more. The Police area a disgrace to their name. They police nothing but bribes for themselves, have no actual respect for upholding anyones rights and generally are extremely lazy not wishing to get involved with anything that is remotely like work.

During the rabble reds - they were out in force on Ramkhamhaeng 39 at the Pracha Uthit intersection trying to snatch 1,000 Baht a time from any motorist with a phone to his ear. As a Farang I was targeted but simply rolled down the window and on hearing the 'order' to park my car at PTT and go back to the police box and pay 1,000 Baht he was told simply 'Kwai Daeng' the window rolled up and I drove off. He did not even take down my number! Maybe by refusing to pay bribes, that issue may go away but I doubt it.

But this has been going on for all time eternal. My wife was offered a job in the Police but was told she had to pay 100,000 Baht for the privilege! Asked why - she was told so she could then take bribes that would make more than that in any one month! It was that open...

No perhaps a solution would be to fire the lot above sergeant level and induct the low end into the army and let the army rule for a few years. That should then allow Abhisit the ability to try to reestablish a decent police force - ones that respect law - but then again TIT - wishful thinking...

Refusing to pay bribes is the way to go!

In almost 4 years of driving both car and motocyc here i have always refused to pay bribes and till now have had 2 tickets (one for speeding of which i was guilty and another for not being in the left lane but also refused to pay on the spot even with a ticket )

Also if my licence is taken i remind them that in itself is an offence and then i refuse to leave the scene of the crime without a copy of his ID or get my licence back in hand,

THese days the police around the area where i live just wave me on if they make the mistake of pulling me for a shakedown.

I had a drunk police officer take myself and 8 other motorcyclist to the police stations because we all refused to pay him a bribe. (I was the only westerner). The Sargent at the station still made us all pay the tickets, although he reduced everyone's fine to 100 baht. We all told him this crackpot cop was drunk, but the department wanted to save face so they hit us with a minimal fine.

Usually I find if you argue long enough they will just let you go, they don't like to waste precious time they could use to extort more willing motorist.

[tingtongfarang]

This is precisely the reason Abhisit is needed in this country - he is honest. He knows how Thailand must change, what is needed both to improve law and order enforcement issues as well as to begin to confront corruption. A formidable task indeed, but Abhisit is Thailand's best chance to make some progress.

Couldn't agree more. The Police area a disgrace to their name. They police nothing but bribes for themselves, have no actual respect for upholding anyones rights and generally are extremely lazy not wishing to get involved with anything that is remotely like work.

During the rabble reds - they were out in force on Ramkhamhaeng 39 at the Pracha Uthit intersection trying to snatch 1,000 Baht a time from any motorist with a phone to his ear. As a Farang I was targeted but simply rolled down the window and on hearing the 'order' to park my car at PTT and go back to the police box and pay 1,000 Baht he was told simply 'Kwai Daeng' the window rolled up and I drove off. He did not even take down my number! Maybe by refusing to pay bribes, that issue may go away but I doubt it.

But this has been going on for all time eternal. My wife was offered a job in the Police but was told she had to pay 100,000 Baht for the privilege! Asked why - she was told so she could then take bribes that would make more than that in any one month! It was that open...

No perhaps a solution would be to fire the lot above sergeant level and induct the low end into the army and let the army rule for a few years. That should then allow Abhisit the ability to try to reestablish a decent police force - ones that respect law - but then again TIT - wishful thinking...

Refusing to pay bribes is the way to go!

In almost 4 years of driving both car and motocyc here i have always refused to pay bribes and till now have had 2 tickets (one for speeding of which i was guilty and another for not being in the left lane but also refused to pay on the spot even with a ticket )

Also if my licence is taken i remind them that in itself is an offence and then i refuse to leave the scene of the crime without a copy of his ID or get my licence back in hand,

THese days the police around the area where i live just wave me on if they make the mistake of pulling me for a shakedown.

I had a drunk police officer take myself and 8 other motorcyclist to the police stations because we all refused to pay him a bribe. (I was the only westerner). The Sargent at the station still made us all pay the tickets, although he reduced everyone's fine to 100 baht. We all told him this crackpot cop was drunk, but the department wanted to save face so they hit us with a minimal fine.

Usually I find if you argue long enough they will just let you go, they don't like to waste precious time they could use to extort more willing motorist.

what was the offence exactly?

[classix]

Thai Police Force Only good at collecting monies for its personal benefit and riding around on new motorbikes .. what a rabble, they even smoke cigarettes when on duty.

since the helmet law is on i never see cops on bike.now they are in fortuners,dmax ,4x4,with aircon and movietheater.a gold star on the grill ten antennas and a chrome ladder in the back.powerwindows used for throw out the smoke.live can be nice.

[nakachalet]

OR YOU CAN JUST RESPECT THE LAW AND PAY ZERO !!!!

For the record - I am here in Phuket.. The other evening around 4pm I was walking home when a policeman beckoned me towards him. He asked where I was going - told me to get on his bike and drove me to my front door. He did not want any money. The next evening I saw him at an eatery, we shook hands and I have a photo with him off-duty. The reason ? mmmm I guess I gave him respect every day when I passed him by doing his job... What goes around comes around.. I have been here one month and all I have ever got is respect and courtesy, low prices, same as the Thais, given motorbikes to lend for free and cars too. Shared cigarettes, bought beers...What is up with everyone on here ???? Don't you know how to make FRIENDS ????

I have a suggestions for you. Rent a car or motorcycle. Take a driving/riding tour around the country for a month or two. Report back about how well you respected the traffic laws, and then report about may many traffic fines you paid.

Paying fines in Thailand has nothing to do with obeying the law. It is simply a matter of being in the wrong place at the wrong time, particularly with regard to traffic offences.

it is really not that bad.... waytoomuchcoffee

driving cross country from burmese border to sadow border several times....

as mdaspinall described.... rarely encountered traffic cops or traffic cop problems....

mostly driving around 90-110, occasionally sneaked in a 120 when the hwy #4 is straight and clear....

my significant other was doing 120 and was flagged.... we chose to pay the official fine with proper receipt and all....

as others already stated.... if we abide by the rules, regardless of how ridiculous those rules might seem to us....,

there won't be too many groups of professional who could take advantages or intimidate us....

[Jimi007]

The Thai police are a bunch of criminals in uniform. Corruption is near-universal, and those who refuse to participate in corruption never rise to any rank of importance, so any good ones are unable to do much anyway.

They have zero oversight, and apart from other corrupt cops, zero accountability.

Weak judges and toady lawyers normally kow-tow to the cops. Foreign embassies recognise the problem, but are powerless to do anything, and basically only care about a case if it is in the newspapers back home.

Pray that you never appear on their radar scope, because there is no help coming if you do.

If you're lucky, your embassy will send you sandwiches in jail.

And despite what some people think they are not incompetent, they are extremely competent at what they do. Unfortunately one of the things they do is extort money from the people they are meant to be serving.

If one day the Thai in the street decided that he had enough of the corruption, set aside the mai pen rai attitude and actually tried to complain, who can he complain to?

The majority of Thais seem to be content with the system they have - otherwise they would complain more?

Do you really believe that Thais are content with the current police? They would complain more, especially if they never want to be never heard from again! Do you ever read the news here? Never mind, you're right! Everyone loves the BiB!

[Democrat]

I also don't expect much, but it is certainly a much needed thing. Abhisit has been able to do quite a lot legislation-wise. Maybe this is something they can do after they are back in power, after the next election.

apisit and the democratic party as a whole need to start the action of cleaning up the police heads and military heads NOW.... certainly the action required is.... NOW

military chief, anupong, very much like the four northern governors failing to take action against the reds and action to protect govt houses, needs to be replaced and relocated IMMEDIATELY for his role of inactivity during the crises.... he really can not be left untouched until his retirement next few months.... he needs to be reprimanded promptly and severely NOW....

anupong is casting a very bad example for other dept heads.... for assuming that apisit is too much of a gentleman.... to take any drastic actions....

for a moment i was ranting like i were apisit....

Urr Mr Fine Gold. Where did you get all that gold?

When the police force fine someone or take a bribe, where does the majority of the money end up? certainly not in the policeman's pocket? certainly not in the police force?

[nakachalet]

The Thai police are a bunch of criminals in uniform. Corruption is near-universal, and those who refuse to participate in corruption never rise to any rank of importance, so any good ones are unable to do much anyway.

They have zero oversight, and apart from other corrupt cops, zero accountability.

Weak judges and toady lawyers normally kow-tow to the cops. Foreign embassies recognise the problem, but are powerless to do anything, and basically only care about a case if it is in the newspapers back home.

Pray that you never appear on their radar scope, because there is no help coming if you do.

If you're lucky, your embassy will send you sandwiches in jail.

And despite what some people think they are not incompetent, they are extremely competent at what they do. Unfortunately one of the things they do is extort money from the people they are meant to be serving.

If one day the Thai in the street decided that he had enough of the corruption, set aside the mai pen rai attitude and actually tried to complain, who can he complain to?

The majority of Thais seem to be content with the system they have - otherwise they would complain more?

i won't say thais are content with the corrupt practices and systems....

rather most just do not know what to do.... nor how to cause the change....

the good that surfaces from the illegal demonstration is.... now most thais know....

if they band together.... they can affect some changes, even at the govt level....

[Kilgore Trout]

Maybe all the farangs will be happy when Thailand is a police state like the UK and America?

Methinks you don't know what a police state is my friend; compare UK and the US (America is a continent) to Romania in the 70's and 80's and countless other examples.

Your post most definitely shows your ignorance.

[way2muchcoffee]

OR YOU CAN JUST RESPECT THE LAW AND PAY ZERO !!!!

For the record - I am here in Phuket.. The other evening around 4pm I was walking home when a policeman beckoned me towards him. He asked where I was going - told me to get on his bike and drove me to my front door. He did not want any money. The next evening I saw him at an eatery, we shook hands and I have a photo with him off-duty. The reason ? mmmm I guess I gave him respect every day when I passed him by doing his job... What goes around comes around.. I have been here one month and all I have ever got is respect and courtesy, low prices, same as the Thais, given motorbikes to lend for free and cars too. Shared cigarettes, bought beers...What is up with everyone on here ???? Don't you know how to make FRIENDS ????

I have a suggestions for you. Rent a car or motorcycle. Take a driving/riding tour around the country for a month or two. Report back about how well you respected the traffic laws, and then report about may many traffic fines you paid.

Paying fines in Thailand has nothing to do with obeying the law. It is simply a matter of being in the wrong place at the wrong time, particularly with regard to traffic offences.

it is really not that bad.... waytoomuchcoffee

driving cross country from burmese border to sadow border several times....

as mdaspinall described.... rarely encountered traffic cops or traffic cop problems....

mostly driving around 90-110, occasionally sneaked in a 120 when the hwy #4 is straight and clear....

my significant other was doing 120 and was flagged.... we chose to pay the official fine with proper receipt and all....

as others already stated.... if we abide by the rules, regardless of how ridiculous those rules might seem to us....,

there won't be too many groups of professional who could take advantages or intimidate us....

I've been extorted by traffic police about 12 times now in the last 4 years. Less than half of them were legitimate.

[Jimi007]

OR YOU CAN JUST RESPECT THE LAW AND PAY ZERO !!!!

For the record - I am here in Phuket.. The other evening around 4pm I was walking home when a policeman beckoned me towards him. He asked where I was going - told me to get on his bike and drove me to my front door. He did not want any money. The next evening I saw him at an eatery, we shook hands and I have a photo with him off-duty. The reason ? mmmm I guess I gave him respect every day when I passed him by doing his job... What goes around comes around.. I have been here one month and all I have ever got is respect and courtesy, low prices, same as the Thais, given motorbikes to lend for free and cars too. Shared cigarettes, bought beers...What is up with everyone on here ???? Don't you know how to make FRIENDS ????

I have a suggestions for you. Rent a car or motorcycle. Take a driving/riding tour around the country for a month or two. Report back about how well you respected the traffic laws, and then report about may many traffic fines you paid.

Paying fines in Thailand has nothing to do with obeying the law. It is simply a matter of being in the wrong place at the wrong time, particularly with regard to traffic offences.

Hmm, not sure that I totally agree. I've had friends say the same thing as you about wrong place, wrong time. I never have had a ticket in 5 years of driving cars and motorbikes here in Thailand. Maybe I'm lucky or I don't try to stand out, with new SUV's and Harley's. Thai view: Oh, you have too much money, we'll take some! At least that's my short answer!

[tingtongfarang]

OR YOU CAN JUST RESPECT THE LAW AND PAY ZERO !!!!

For the record - I am here in Phuket.. The other evening around 4pm I was walking home when a policeman beckoned me towards him. He asked where I was going - told me to get on his bike and drove me to my front door. He did not want any money. The next evening I saw him at an eatery, we shook hands and I have a photo with him off-duty. The reason ? mmmm I guess I gave him respect every day when I passed him by doing his job... What goes around comes around.. I have been here one month and all I have ever got is respect and courtesy, low prices, same as the Thais, given motorbikes to lend for free and cars too. Shared cigarettes, bought beers...What is up with everyone on here ???? Don't you know how to make FRIENDS ????

I have a suggestions for you. Rent a car or motorcycle. Take a driving/riding tour around the country for a month or two. Report back about how well you respected the traffic laws, and then report about may many traffic fines you paid.

Paying fines in Thailand has nothing to do with obeying the law. It is simply a matter of being in the wrong place at the wrong time, particularly with regard to traffic offences.

it is really not that bad.... waytoomuchcoffee

driving cross country from burmese border to sadow border several times....

as mdaspinall described.... rarely encountered traffic cops or traffic cop problems....

mostly driving around 90-110, occasionally sneaked in a 120 when the hwy #4 is straight and clear....

my significant other was doing 120 and was flagged.... we chose to pay the official fine with proper receipt and all....

as others already stated.... if we abide by the rules, regardless of how ridiculous those rules might seem to us....,

there won't be too many groups of professional who could take advantages or intimidate us....

I've been extorted by traffic police about 12 times now in the last 4 years. Less than half of them were legitimate.

That means you paid fines or bribes 12 times?

[way2muchcoffee]

I've been extorted by traffic police about 12 times now in the last 4 years. Less than half of them were legitimate.

That means you paid fines or bribes 12 times?

That's exactly what it means. Some were 200 bt under the license and others were 500 bt. Twice I had to go to the station. I guess it would be more fair to say that I have been extorted 6 of the 12 times I've been pulled over.

This doesn't include the random checkpoints on highways where they aren't really after cash as long as you have a proper license and have paid your annual tax for the sticker.

Edited May 28, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[anotheruser]

If the police were paid a reasonable wage, and at the same time an effective complaints comission and an independent corruption agency were formed, something might be accomplished. The practise of auctioning high income generating senior postings might be a good place to start. Low ranking police need to collect tea money to turn an insufficient wage into a living one. High ranking Police regard their black income as a perk of the job and frequently become so involved with protecting criminality that it's difficult to judge where the police end and the criminals begin. Drug dealing and manufacture, dodgy real estate deals, arms supply, and the endemic prostitution industry are all areas where high ranking police officers can collect many times their annual salary from a single protection deal. In some cases and localities senior police officers control these industries themselves. This is the sort of thing that must be addressed to restore credability to the police force. However the issue of political favouritism will doubtless receive the most attention initially, because the instigators of these proposed clean up campaigns are politicians.

I agree with much of what you are saying. Although the low ranking police get paid how much? I assume they make as much as a waiter or som tam vendor at least. Many Thai people survive on these sort of salaries with out engaging in illegal activities to supplement their incomes. They do not need that mansion. They do not need that Mercedes. Just because I want material items outside the range of my salary doesn't mean it is a justification to break the law to obtain them.

It isn't as if they are only out getting enough tea money to survive. They are extorting as much money as they can so they can sit with the big boys and have some status.

[nakachalet]

I also don't expect much, but it is certainly a much needed thing. Abhisit has been able to do quite a lot legislation-wise. Maybe this is something they can do after they are back in power, after the next election.

apisit and the democratic party as a whole need to start the action of cleaning up the police heads and military heads NOW.... certainly the action required is.... NOW

military chief, anupong, very much like the four northern governors failing to take action against the reds and action to protect govt houses, needs to be replaced and relocated IMMEDIATELY for his role of inactivity during the crises.... he really can not be left untouched until his retirement next few months.... he needs to be reprimanded promptly and severely NOW....

anupong is casting a very bad example for other dept heads.... for assuming that apisit is too much of a gentleman.... to take any drastic actions....

for a moment i was ranting like i were apisit....

Urr Mr Fine Gold. Where did you get all that gold?

When the police force fine someone or take a bribe, where does the majority of the money end up? certainly not in the policeman's pocket? certainly not in the police force?

democrat....

other less obvious response is in your pm....

ok.... you asked for it....

when a bribe is taken.... almost always.... it is unequally shared up the ladder....

some years back.... it was almost an unwritten rule.... that if a junior officer did not fulfil his unannounced quota....

his chances of promotion would surely be diminishing.... this corrupted practice permeated from customs to traffic cops....

like flip wilson used to say some decade ago (LOL).... it is the devil that makes me say it.... how many do recall flip....?

[animatic]

Maybe all the farangs will be happy when Thailand is a police state like the UK and America?

Methinks you don't know what a police state is my friend; compare UK and the US (America is a continent) to Romania in the 70's and 80's and countless other examples.

Your post most definitely shows your ignorance.

Agreed. Regardless of the tightening of USA and UK rules, it doesn't really come close to

a classic Police State. Most people go their whole lives with running afoul of the police.

[Democrat]

I have a suggestions for you. Rent a car or motorcycle. Take a driving/riding tour around the country for a month or two. Report back about how well you respected the traffic laws, and then report about may many traffic fines you paid.

Paying fines in Thailand has nothing to do with obeying the law. It is simply a matter of being in the wrong place at the wrong time, particularly with regard to traffic offences.

Hmm, not sure that I totally agree. I've had friends say the same thing as you about wrong place, wrong time. I never have had a ticket in 5 years of driving cars and motorbikes here in Thailand. Maybe I'm lucky or I don't try to stand out, with new SUV's and Harley's. Thai view: Oh, you have too much money, we'll take some! At least that's my short answer!

I am the same in 4 years I have had 1 ticket which was legitimate. In the last 2 weeks I have been through at least 10 roadblocks, they have checked I am wearing my seatbelt, and I am not on the phone and waved me through. But I have heard of many things, like what is being written in this column.

[clown]

The police extortions are no joke, they're a serious problem in Thailand. I only had the problem once so far, but it was ridiculous. Driving towards the tollway at Sukhumvit Soi "0", I stopped exactly where I was supposed to, at the line behind the railway crossing, waiting for the cars in front of me to move so that I could drive and not get stuck standing on the railway tracks, which isn't allowed. The police officer was regulating the traffic when he walked towards me and told me to catch up with the other cars, which would leave me standing on the railway tracks. I waved my hand and pointed at the tracks, but he just kept waving, and telling me to drive there. So I did, and well ..obviously got stuck standing on the railway tracks because the car in front of me had not moved yet. He told me to lower the window and told me "no!! no!! no!! cannot stand here!!". He couldn't speak any more English, so I called me wife and handed him the phone. He spoke to her and then gave me the phone back, when she explained to me that I drove onto the railway tracks and I had to pay a 500 Baht fine. I told her that I didn't want to drive on them but he kept telling me to, so I did. After a lot of back and forth talking, he pointed towards his handcuffs and made a move with his hands and kept telling me "ha-roi Baht" (500 Baht). So I gave it to him and he walked away and told me to drive away.

I'm sure many people have a similar story here.

[tingtongfarang]

I've been extorted by traffic police about 12 times now in the last 4 years. Less than half of them were legitimate.

That means you paid fines or bribes 12 times?

That's exactly what it means. Some were 200 bt under the license and others were 500 bt. Twice I had to go to the station. I guess it would be more fair to say that I have been extorted 6 of the 12 times I've been pulled over.

I estimate that in more than 50.000km of driving and 17000km on a motocyc i have been hit with atleast 50 extortion attempts but never paid a bribe, Have been to the police station 2 times with tickets but only paid once, I dont understand your willingness to hand money over to them,

On a side note...i have a friend who was stopped on sukhumvit and claimed he had no money with him...the copper asked for his atm card and pin number! He told me directly after he went to onnut police station to complain but they said must be police from another district

[anotheruser]

I imagine people pay them because they can get pretty intimidating and nobody wants to go to jail over small amounts of money. The police bank on this.

[kxfield]

I have heard so much rhetoric stating "The police must be reformed"but very little in the way of practical suggestions. Yes taking models from Singapore or Hong Kong is at least pointing the way. However do you always have to have top down solutions. Perhaps some bottom-up solutions could help- and before you ladyboy lovers start making crude suggestions what if:

Problem

We have some corrupt police officers and some good ones. How do we curtail the corrupt ones and start to reform the police. Most people realize that we have to substantially improve police salaries but also have to introduce new legislation to prevent corruption. [/b]

1) Make it mandatory, by legislation, that all police officers should give a card, to anyone they stop, for whatever reason, detailing their name rank and number and make sure that their number is displayed properly on their uniform so it can be checked against their card. With current low cost photo-copying, why not a photo on the card as well.

Make it an offence if they do not do so, punishable initially by loss of salary, secondly by suspension and ultimately dismissal.

If an on the spot fine is demanded it should also be mandatory that a receipt is given, with similar punishments for omission.

2) Set up a reporting database, manned by a few select independent observers, reporting to an independent anti-corruption bureau.

The general public should be encouraged to supply details of the officer that stopped them, the dates, location etc., and the resulting fine or action taken.

People should be able to supply this information, by a variety of means, electronically or manually via free phone numbers or freepost or email etc. We live in a world of twitter and facebook and mobile phones and e-mail. Even the poorest people in Issan have access to people with mobile phones in their village.

I am sure that many people would be prepared to record these details when they feel that they have just been exploited by a corrupt officer.

3) Set up mechanisms that extract sufficient information from the complainants that ensure that officers would not be subjected to malicious or false accusations from individuals or groups, and make it a serious offence to do so. This would mean complainants giving sufficient information about themselves and the circumstances of the complaint to minimize any malicious entry.

4) When the independent observers have sufficient evidence of a police officer having received numerous complaints from a range of unrelated people, that individual should be investigated without revealing any details of the complainants just the general numbers of complainants and money received etc., Besides curtailing the BIB, this then makes it more difficult for senior offices to organize their cut of the scams. While they have many other sources of bribery, at least it makes a start.

It could be extended to police to enable them to report internal bribery where police positions are bought and promotion is not done on merit or could be tailored to many other areas, where there are corrupt officials.

O.K. you can have a laugh and say such suggestions are naive and unworkable in Thailand, but the point is we need people to cut the rhetoric and make constructive suggestions otherwise we will never get anywhere.

[tingtongfarang]

I have heard so much rhetoric stating "The police must be reformed"but very little in the way of practical suggestions. Yes taking models from Singapore or Hong Kong is at least pointing the way. However do you always have to have top down solutions. Perhaps some bottom-up solutions could help- and before you ladyboy lovers start making crude suggestions what if:

Problem

We have some corrupt police officers and some good ones. How do we curtail the corrupt ones and start to reform the police. Most people realize that we have to substantially improve police salaries but also have to introduce new legislation to prevent corruption. [/b]

1) Make it mandatory, by legislation, that all police officers should give a card, to anyone they stop, for whatever reason, detailing their name rank and number and make sure that their number is displayed properly on their uniform so it can be checked against their card. With current low cost photo-copying, why not a photo on the card as well.

Make it an offence if they do not do so, punishable initially by loss of salary, secondly by suspension and ultimately dismissal.

If an on the spot fine is demanded it should also be mandatory that a receipt is given, with similar punishments for omission.

2) Set up a reporting database, manned by a few select independent observers, reporting to an independent anti-corruption bureau.

The general public should be encouraged to supply details of the officer that stopped them, the dates, location etc., and the resulting fine or action taken.

People should be able to supply this information, by a variety of means, electronically or manually via free phone numbers or freepost or email etc. We live in a world of twitter and facebook and mobile phones and e-mail. Even the poorest people in Issan have access to people with mobile phones in their village.

I am sure that many people would be prepared to record these details when they feel that they have just been exploited by a corrupt officer.

3) Set up mechanisms that extract sufficient information from the complainants that ensure that officers would not be subjected to malicious or false accusations from individuals or groups, and make it a serious offence to do so. This would mean complainants giving sufficient information about themselves and the circumstances of the complaint to minimize any malicious entry.

4) When the independent observers have sufficient evidence of a police officer having received numerous complaints from a range of unrelated people, that individual should be investigated without revealing any details of the complainants just the general numbers of complainants and money received etc., Besides curtailing the BIB, this then makes it more difficult for senior offices to organize their cut of the scams. While they have many other sources of bribery, at least it makes a start.

It could be extended to police to enable them to report internal bribery where police positions are bought and promotion is not done on merit or could be tailored to many other areas, where there are corrupt officials.

O.K. you can have a laugh and say such suggestions are naive and unworkable in Thailand, but the point is we need people to cut the rhetoric and make constructive suggestions otherwise we will never get anywhere.

Sounds good to me.

[gl9999]

The police here is trash. However, they're no worse then the police in Malaysia and Indonesia. And I'm pretty sure the police is a lot of third world countries are just as bad. I speak of Malaysia and Indonesia because I've lived in both these countries, 4 years in KL, 2 in Jakarta. Now, I am in no way excusing corruption but these people are paid really bad. While you can survive on the crappy salary, most people would take the extra tea money here and there to supplement their income.

It's not easy to clean up an already corrupt organisation. The Malaysians tried and they've failed miserably. Like someone said, you need a watchdog that's 100% clean (like HK's ICAC) and you would also need to improve the salaries of these policemen. Tall order here unfortunately. I think the Singaporeans got it correct in which they pay civil servants very well to prevent corruption.

[wolf5370]

I remember when I first visited Thailand some 15 years or so ago that they were having some kind of politician crackdown and the Bangkok Post carried breakdowns of suspected bent politicians/civil servants assets agaist there wage. I don't remember what happened about it, and it was probably just a way of getting rid of some opposition at the time. However, if police bank accounts and assets in their, and their immediate family's, name are recorded and scrutinised by an independant watchdog against their wages - especially if no officer names are give, just numerical index, then it would make life very difficult for the bad eggs. Sure they can carry cah around, get drunk and live well, but they could not justify the new car, the top notch school fees, the mansion etc etc. The 'higher ups' who are passed up their share (pyramid scheme style) would be in the most difficult position.

If they declared an amnesty to date as they brought it it, it would be saying 'We know what you may or may not have been up to, but we will not go there, but from this day on you better be clean because we are watching you!'. An easier pill to swallow for both those involved and the chaos of sacking everyone.

Another thing would be to make promotions above sergeant to be handled by an external agency with a mandate to provide qualification for the choices and adherence to some kind of professional and personal checksheet and team review - more senior the rank the greate the review - one part of the review would be an asset check.

lower the amount of police to pay for a better wage and bonuses structure with a good pension after x years. This gives a carrot - found guilty of corruption or any non-misdemeanour and loss of job and pension. Giev a uniform allowance - and standardise the side arms by making it mandatory to carry registered police firearms only.

Lastly, as said many times, set up an independant police complaints commision and separate internal affairs from the police hierarchy. Put a minister in charge of the IA; IPCC; police works and pensions; and police reviews, bonuses and promotions - but keeping them seperate and distinct reporting only to the minister (not the police minister) and give them a cabinet or sub-cabinet chair.

[Jimi007]

Way too many ifs! This is Thailand! It's not as if farangs can change things in Thailand. Do you think anything anyone says on this forum matters to anyone that has any power to change anything here? There are some ideas on here I agree with, but Thailand is still for Thai people, not for farang. You can try to fit in more, learn to speak some Thai and don't try to act superior... Accept things as they are, it their country. You don't believe me, ask any Thai that's not selling you a something... But good luck with changing anything! Except maybe your address!

[Sabre]

how must does it cost these days to become a thai police ,and now much more to get a good location ?

I heard that the going rate in Pattaya was THB100k-150k to become a traffic cop of the lowest rank.

[Sabre]

I remember a couple of years ago it was late at night and I was driving back to Bangkok from upcountry. I had managed to get myself momentarily lost in Bangkok - I think I was on Petchburi road - and before I knew it I had hit a police roadblock. They were quite an aggressive bunch, made me get out of the car, patted me down, looked inside the car for anything illicit, that kind of thing - in the end they found nothing but unfortunately I wasn't carrying my driver's license. They tried to sting me for 1,000 but I negotiated it down to 300 (yes I know some of you could have got it down to 50 baht or whatever before you say it) - paid the fine and was on my way. Not very happy about the fine, but I was in the wrong, so decided I should just get over it.

Anyway, because I was still lost somehow I managed to do a full circle and 20 minutes later hit the same roadblock. The cops were getting ready to go through the whole rigmarole again, but before they could start I cut them off - "hang on I was just here 20 minutes ago ... " My stomach was sinking, and I fully expected they were going to hit me up for driving without a license a second time.

There was some back and forth between them and then they gave me the nod and let me through.

So I guess maybe some of them aren't complete bastards all of the time ...

[Sabre]

Way too many ifs! This is Thailand! It's not as if farangs can change things in Thailand. Do you think anything anyone says on this forum matters to anyone that has any power to change anything here? There are some ideas on here I agree with, but Thailand is still for Thai people, not for farang. You can try to fit in more, learn to speak some Thai and don't try to act superior... Accept things as they are, it their country. You don't believe me, ask any Thai that's not selling you a something... But good luck with changing anything! Except maybe your address!

It's sad but I basically agree with this.

As a farang you can somewhat integrate into Thai society if you keep at it for many years, learn the language, act in a certain way and so forth. But one should never, ever make the mistake of thinking that they are part of Thai society because that's just not really possible. At best a farang will be seen as some sort of benign oddity, but he/she will always be 'farang'.