Unblieveable Story! (well, Ok, Not In Los Maybe)

[TenDreams]

ok, this is a really long story, so i will chop it down to bare minimum (yes, there IS a lot more to it, obviously)

I quit my job, rather suddenly, but with good reason and gave as much notice as was humanly possible.

my passport with new non im B was in the possession of a 3rd party agency who had just arranged my WP.

when i went to get it, they had just couriered it to my office.

as i arrived back at the office, my boss had it in his hand, and was about to lock it in his drawer.

after a long and heated exchange, i basically snatched my passport off him, as he was trying to get me to pay him 66,800 Baht for the work permit and visa extension. (when i quit, i told him he could dock me the money for the WP, i didnt think it could possibly come to anything like that amount!)

the whole scene was very ugly, shocking and really quite unbelievable, but i'll spare the reader the details.

he was very adamant about not returning the passport until i paid this sum. even though most of the sum would have been covered by my last months salary (and another sum of money he owes me), which of course, he is refusing to pay me.

(i have no legal contract with this 'man')

he showed me the receipts (3) that amounted to 66800. he is Japanese, and close with the Japanese agency (who behaved very suspiciously when my GF and i went to get my passport) and i reckon it is not beyond the realms of possibility that the receipts were fixed, but i don't have a copy of them unfortunately.

I have never done anything wrong to this person in over 2 years of employment (in fact i have gone above and beyond the call of duty for him), but i feel he treated me like a criminal. the whole way he dealt with the situation was very dishonest, unprofessional and childish. and he was shaking with fear the whole way though. had he dealt with it another way, there may have been no problem.

i got there just at the right second, as he was clearly waiting until the last day of the month when i would have been expecting a paycheck, to spring this on me.

anyway,...

is the sum off 66800 baht legit? it was for: WP, visa extension (1 year), and something else that stupidly, i am not sure of (possibly WP cancellation?)

before it kicked off, he said my WP would be canceled on june 1st. is it right that i have then have 1 week (I'm from UK, heard that its different for different nationalities?) to get my stuff in order (leave Thailand and come back on a new visa, OR get my new employer to fix my new WP on my old visa within a week).

If he doesnt cancel the WP, will i have problems? (i guess he will, as he would be breaking the law i guess)

also am i allowed to name and shame the guy/his company/the service they provide (really is scum of the earth, not necessarily for this, but for a world of other reasons i wont go into now) ;o)

sorry for the long and garbled post, congrats if u made it through!

[Mario2008]

work permit: 3,100

extension of stay: 1,900

Plus cost of hiring consultant if someone else did all the paperwork.

You have to leave the country the same day your employemnt ends, or go to immirgation with a letter of your employer stating your employment ends today and cancel your permisison to stay and get a 1 week extension of stay for 1,900 baht.

Do you have a contract with them or with the agency. If the agency, they will probably be responsible for paying you. if pay is refused, you can go to the labour office and they will help you sort it out. If need be they will go to court for you. Most employers wont take it that far.

[TenDreams]

Thanks, those were similar to figures I have heard from others too.

I don't have a contact (EDIT: should read CONTRACT) with anybody at all, so going to the dept. of labour about not being paid is not really an option.

I think that they (the agency) are planning to make the cancellation arrangements on Monday, from what I gather.

My next employer has already said that making the new WP won't be a problem and I wont have to leave Thailand or anything, apparently they have confirmed this with the local immigration office, but who knows what that means in reality!?

Thanks again Mario2008

Edited May 28, 2010 by TenDreams

[Mario2008]

If you don't have a contract, how come you have a work permit?

The work permit is proof enough and labour isn't interested in if there was a contract or not. They will act.

[TenDreams]

I have just never signed a contract with that company, though I have always had a work permit from them.

Really? That's interesting...thanks for the info.

[monty]

Your work permit, plus all tax payments will be enough for the labor department to calculate your actual salary and how long you worked for that employer.

They are definitely on the side of the employee!

[beejoir]

They have no right to hold your passport. Plain and simple.

Maybe its just easier to not pay the money, and go get a new one at your Embassy?

[TenDreams]

Unfortunately, he was not willing to part with my passport, so I had to literally snatch it away from the sneaky wretch.

He did lose a bit of umph when I mentioned the legalities of what he was doing!

Obviously he's not going to pay me this month, so I might write him a letter stating that I am reporting it all to the labor department.

[JohnC]

If you have proof that you were employed (salary slips, tax paid etc) in conjunction with the wp obtained by them this in its self constitutes a contract even if it is not in writing. Hot foot it to the labour department.

[TerryLH]

I think a contract is one of the required documents to get a WP. It was probably in Thai, and they had you sign it along with a bunch of other paperwork.

Even in some aboveboard places, the contract that they send to the Labor Office is not the same as they give you. It's just easier for some places to send in a proven generic contract.

[Sunbelt Asia]

Hi there, a couple things to handle here:

Fees -- A third-party agent is naturally going to charge more to do the work necessary to renew a visa/extension of stay and work permit. But the amounts quoted do seem high. Our fee, for example, to extend a work permit (if we have done the original work permit) is 7,500 baht. Cancellation of the work permit is 1,900 baht. So you can see how it would be difficult to add up to 66,000 baht.

Your Visa Situation -- More importantly is your status. First of all, your work permit is not related to the visa. The WP's cancellation has no bearing on your visa. Your employer cancels the work permit with the Labor office and then notifies Labor and Immigration that your employment has been terminated.

Regardless of whether these notifications take place, your legal basis to remain in the Kingdom ended with the end of your employment. You must either obtain a 7-day extension from Immigration or leave the country immediately to obtain a different visa. If you can secure new employment within seven days you likely can avoid the out-of-country trip, but otherwise you'll need to either get a Tourist Visa or return on a visa exemption stamp (15 days by land/30 days by air.)

Our expert Legal Advisors can provide you a more detailed information about visa requirements, work permit and company legal issues.

www.sunbeltlegaladvisors.com

26th Floor Fortune Town BR, 1 Ratchadapisek Rd, 10400 Bangkok

Tel: 02-642-0213 Fax: 02-641-1995

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[wileycoyote]

I was once offered someone's else work permit ,as he was off on a sabbatical to the States.and that year's quota of expatriates full.

Totally illegal,I refused ,rather than do something which would result in me breaking Thai Law ,and that employer would always have a "hold " over me.

[ESB7]

Its unlikely you will use them for references so I wouldnt pay them anything.

[TenDreams]

I think a contract is one of the required documents to get a WP. It was probably in Thai, and they had you sign it along with a bunch of other paperwork.

Even in some aboveboard places, the contract that they send to the Labor Office is not the same as they give you. It's just easier for some places to send in a proven generic contract.

Strangely the boss always made a deal out of not giving us contracts. He claimed it was all based on 'trust'. Ironically enough. Maybe there was some generic Thai one for the sake of WP purposes. The argument here is that he is taking my salary and want to take more to cover the cost of my WP - even if there is some generic contract, I am sure that would not be one of its conditions.

Your Visa Situation -- More importantly is your status. First of all, your work permit is not related to the visa. The WP's cancellation has no bearing on your visa. Your employer cancels the work permit with the Labor office and then notifies Labor and Immigration that your employment has been terminated.

Regardless of whether these notifications take place, your legal basis to remain in the Kingdom ended with the end of your employment. You must either obtain a 7-day extension from Immigration or leave the country immediately to obtain a different visa. If you can secure new employment within seven days you likely can avoid the out-of-country trip, but otherwise you'll need to either get a Tourist Visa or return on a visa exemption stamp (15 days by land/30 days by air.)

www.sunbeltlegaladvisors.com

26th Floor Fortune Town BR, 1 Ratchadapisek Rd, 10400 Bangkok

Tel: 02-642-0213 Fax: 02-641-1995

Follow us on:

Thanks for the advice there.

I find WP/visa issues really confusing (don't think I am alone)

It seems that the two above statements are kind of contradictory...maybe I am missing something obvious.

If the WP's cancellation has no bearing on my visa, how come my one year visa will suddenly end with the termination of my employment? It's OK, kind of a rhetorical question there...don't get it, but I can accept it for what it is!

Thanks again!

Its unlikely you will use them for references so I wouldnt pay them anything.

He's keeping my months salary, plus some other money he owes me, so paying cannot be helped.

[TenDreams]

If you have proof that you were employed (salary slips, tax paid etc) in conjunction with the wp obtained by them this in its self constitutes a contract even if it is not in writing. Hot foot it to the labour department.

Thanks, yes I have over 2 years of payslips/tax records and copies of both WPs I have had with them. I'll go on Monday!

[Sunbelt Asia]

It seems that the two above statements are kind of contradictory...maybe I am missing something obvious.

If the WP's cancellation has no bearing on my visa, how come my one year visa will suddenly end with the termination of my employment?

Your VISA, or more specifically the extension of stay on your visa, is itself based on your employment. If your visa ends, so does the reason for your extension of stay

www.sunbeltlegaladvisors.com

26th Floor Fortune Town BR, 1 Ratchadapisek Rd, 10400 Bangkok

Tel: 02-642-0213 Fax: 02-641-1995

Follow us on:

[lopburi3]

If you were here on a visa entry (90 days) there would not be any effect on loss of work or using another visa entry. You appear to have been on an extension of stay for work so that extension of stay ends the day that work ends.

Visa entry of 90 days - no effect.

Extension of stay for work - ends the day work ends.

[TenDreams]

OK, that makes sense, thanks.

My new employer said they will give me a hand at the immigration office in that province and get things straightened out on Monday.

Fingers crossed it will go smoothly. After it's sorted, I will focus on step 2: getting some money back out of the @#*@*@&!

[moe666]

TenDreams keep us informed how this all works out for you, good luck.

[TenDreams]

TenDreams keep us informed how this all works out for you, good luck.

Hi,

A quick update...

Made my second trip to the labor dept. and finally got to immigration (not BKK) for the first time today.

As expected, the guy there told me that I had overstayed for 2 months, shouldn't have been working without a WP, and was liable for the maximum fine.

(My NIB expired on July 17th 2010, and I had an extension of stay until July 2011, but both were worthless after I quit my previous job).

I explained this to my current employer several times, but they just said not to worry about it, they were sorting it all out.

I explained my situation to the immigration guy, and he then spoke to my employer on the phone for a while (they knew each other).

I then filled out an extension of stay form (7 day) and paid 1900 Baht. He put a note in my passport (handwritten in Thai)and a stamp (which unfortunately says my application for extension was denied and I have 1 week to leave)and he said that was it.

They say the work permit will be ready next week, I have to collect that then they will give me a 1 year visa, and I don't have to leave the country. I don't know how this works exactly...but fingers crossed!

If anything interesting happens, will post.

Cheers.