What Happened To Me Today

[eggomaniac]

In the self taught meditation I do, I sometimes reach a state of dream - awake consciousness. I have been to the interwoven Inner Temple of the Universe, had songs and poetry, delivered to me, astral traveled, while listening to Orawee had time warp for brief seconds, and other amazing things.

It has always been a sort of there to here jolt or jump, which I learned to hold on through to there.

Today, it was what I can only describe as smooth transition from here to there, instead; then I, for the first time looped back and forth.

Not as intensely, but for the rest of the day, and even now it seems like the meditation session never stopped. It was like, when I took my daughter to ballet and the waterfront, and while talking to people, buying my wife a new dress, I could turn the 'looping' on low volume.

It seemed surreal that we ended up in the lobby of the local museum where a Tibetan Buddhist monk was just finishing a 5 day project of a sand Mandala of Green Tara, the Mahayana female Buddha.

So, because I'm not 'educated' and/or 'trained' in meditation I'm wondering if my experience today is common. Does anybody know if there are names in Hinduism or Buddhism for slipping so easily into trance and having it dual a dual experience of here and there, then it not ending.

One thing, there was a bit of a scary aspect to it. It's like I had this feeling I could end up coming out at the other reality I was looping with, instead of this one. I am a bit apprehensive about meditating again, a bit scared to, now.

Is there precedence for this type and 'level' of experience?

It's like my mind feels like a 6th sense or something, it's hard to explain, but it is mostly a good feeling, a 'bit' scary.

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Oh and did I tell you about the TJS and TJP?

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Oh, in another Post somebody said something about not being able to imagine an eternity of celestial heaven, or something like.

The next day I saw a Bizarro cartoon. >> A newbie in heaven, with small wings and halo was bending down touching the strands of clouds. The 'regular', with the long wings and angelic smile was saying, "Clouds, goodness no! We are a bunch of fleas in God's beard."

[Brucenkhamen]

What you've described sounds nothing like what should be expected as a result of practising Buddhist meditation. Buddhist meditation is about present moment awareness not trances, dreams, or visions, it's very unlikely you'll have these kinds of experiences doing Buddhist meditation properly. Even in those traditions that do practice more visual oriented techniques as I understand it it's about developing wisdom or concentration in the mind not having far out experiences.

If somebody taught you the technique you are practising then best to go to that person for advice, if not then I think you'd be better off learning a proper technique from a teacher, whether that be Buddhist or another tradition. Otherwise if you play with fire expect to get burnt.

If you do decide to learn a Buddhist technique then I'm sure there are people on this board who will be able to give you advice when you need it.

[Samuian]

Sorry I am not a "Buddhist" and do not do any form of specific "Buddist meditation", nor belong to any other specific Club or Organization - but still try to answer the question - if there is a proper answer to it:

one I am quite sure with it is not any form of "samadhi" - to be honest, this just seems like a whooooooooshhhing by of various thoughts - pictures - way, away from any sort of "meditation' where the mind, the one who recognizes thoughts and it's objectives - where bodily functions are down to their very limits and the "ruler" of the city with 9 Gates lies at complete rest - observing NOTHING at all!

nirvikalpa samadhi - In nirvikalpa samadhi there is no mind. The Creator, the Creation and the Observer are perceived as ONE - without a second, no limits and can't be named.

The object of adoration and the one who is adoring become totally ONE - the Lover and the Beloved become totally ONE, the witness and the witnessed, the observer and the observed - become ONE - the mind, the perception, go beyond everything, and at the same time we see that everything is real.

In nirvikalpa samadhi there is no mind, there is neither a "me" that can be percieved, so there can't be a witness, no dream dreamt, no pictures seen - who "sees" it?.

The Creator, the Creation and the Observer completely merge into ONE, no differentiation any more.

There the object of adoration and the person who is adoring become totally one; the Lover and the Beloved become totally one. We go beyond everything, and at the same time we see that everything is real.

Absorption without self-consciousness, is a mergence of the mental activity (cittavṛtti) in the Self, to such a degree, or in such a way, that the distinction (vikalpa) of knower, act of knowing, and object known becomes dissolved — as waves vanish in water, and as a drop of water vanishes into the sea...

It would be more likely to experience "nothingness" then picturing a "movie" it's the trickery of mind you observed - none else - let's go and see what the "masters" says about this.

Regarding your "Tara Vision" = Within Tibetan Buddhism Tārā is regarded as a Boddhisattva of compassion and action. She is the female aspect of Avalokitesvara (Chenrezig, Mae Im) and in some origin stories she comes from his tears.

It's only an aspect of.... as understood in the Mahayana - bodhisattvahood!

- excerpts from Wiki "Tara" and "Samadhi":

...many times there is a visualization of oneself as Tārā. One simultaneously becomes inseparable from all her good qualities while at the same time realizing the emptiness of the visualization of oneself as the yidam and also the emptiness of one's ordinary self.

This occurs in the completion stage of the practice. One dissolves the created deity form and at the same time also realizes how much of what we call the "self" is a creation of the mind, and has no long term substantial inherent existence. This part of the practice then is preparing the practitioner to be able to confront the dissolution of one's self at death and ultimately be able to approach through various stages of meditation upon emptiness, the realization of Ultimate Truth as a vast display of Emptiness and Luminosity

Paramhansa Yogananda describes this state as:

"...the soul realizes itself and Spirit as one. The ego consciousness, the soul consciousness, and the ocean of Spirit are seen all existing together. It is the state of simultaneously watching the ocean of Spirit and the waves of creation. The individual no longer sees himself as a "John Smith" related to a particular environment; he realizes that the ocean of Spirit has become not only the wave of John Smith but also the waves of all ofter lives..."

Are you a practitioner of tibetan buddhism?

[talk2sam]

I hope some is not high on M****, anyways just becareful, like someone said, don't play with fire and not expect to be burnt.

[Samuian]

I hope some is not high on M****, anyways just becareful, like someone said, don't play with fire and not expect to be burnt.

.... funny, this came to me first too!

well, then how come you "know" - read it somewhere?

Or watched Dennis Hopper in Flashback?

[Winbkk]

A "bit scary" is not normally what folks look for when meditating.

You may want to do a wiki on "makyo".

It may help you to understand a bit more. But then, of course, it may not.

The replies given so far are well worthwhile for you to read more than once over a couple of days.

[eggomaniac]

Sorry I am not a "Buddhist" and do not do any form of specific "Buddist meditation", nor belong to any other specific Club or Organization - but still try to answer the question - if there is a proper answer to it:

one I am quite sure with it is not any form of "samadhi" - to be honest, this just seems like a whooooooooshhhing by of various thoughts - pictures - way, away from any sort of "meditation' where the mind, the one who recognizes thoughts and it's objectives - where bodily functions are down to their very limits and the "ruler" of the city with 9 Gates lies at complete rest - observing NOTHING at all!

nirvikalpa samadhi - In nirvikalpa samadhi there is no mind. The Creator, the Creation and the Observer are perceived as ONE - without a second, no limits and can't be named.

The object of adoration and the one who is adoring become totally ONE - the Lover and the Beloved become totally ONE, the witness and the witnessed, the observer and the observed - become ONE - the mind, the perception, go beyond everything, and at the same time we see that everything is real.

In nirvikalpa samadhi there is no mind, there is neither a "me" that can be percieved, so there can't be a witness, no dream dreamt, no pictures seen - who "sees" it?.

The Creator, the Creation and the Observer completely merge into ONE, no differentiation any more.

There the object of adoration and the person who is adoring become totally one; the Lover and the Beloved become totally one. We go beyond everything, and at the same time we see that everything is real.

Absorption without self-consciousness, is a mergence of the mental activity (cittavṛtti) in the Self, to such a degree, or in such a way, that the distinction (vikalpa) of knower, act of knowing, and object known becomes dissolved — as waves vanish in water, and as a drop of water vanishes into the sea...

It would be more likely to experience "nothingness" then picturing a "movie" it's the trickery of mind you observed - none else - let's go and see what the "masters" says about this.

Regarding your "Tara Vision" = Within Tibetan Buddhism Tārā is regarded as a Boddhisattva of compassion and action. She is the female aspect of Avalokitesvara (Chenrezig, Mae Im) and in some origin stories she comes from his tears.

It's only an aspect of.... as understood in the Mahayana - bodhisattvahood!

- excerpts from Wiki "Tara" and "Samadhi":

...many times there is a visualization of oneself as Tārā. One simultaneously becomes inseparable from all her good qualities while at the same time realizing the emptiness of the visualization of oneself as the yidam and also the emptiness of one's ordinary self.

This occurs in the completion stage of the practice. One dissolves the created deity form and at the same time also realizes how much of what we call the "self" is a creation of the mind, and has no long term substantial inherent existence. This part of the practice then is preparing the practitioner to be able to confront the dissolution of one's self at death and ultimately be able to approach through various stages of meditation upon emptiness, the realization of Ultimate Truth as a vast display of Emptiness and Luminosity

Paramhansa Yogananda describes this state as:

"...the soul realizes itself and Spirit as one. The ego consciousness, the soul consciousness, and the ocean of Spirit are seen all existing together. It is the state of simultaneously watching the ocean of Spirit and the waves of creation. The individual no longer sees himself as a "John Smith" related to a particular environment; he realizes that the ocean of Spirit has become not only the wave of John Smith but also the waves of all ofter lives..."

Are you a practitioner of tibetan buddhism?

No, I am self taught, though 'learning' is a compilation of all of life's inputs. [interesting you mentioned Yoganda, I must have read Autobiography of a Yogi a dozen times way back in my hippy days.] Besides, I believe there is only one Buddhism, like there is one Christianity and trying to figure out which Name Brand, in both cases, is closest to the original teachings and concepts is a difficult task. Right now, I believe most all of them have stumbled over coffers and dogma and are far from the 'ideal'. [For Christianity, the 7 Day Adventists are the closest, in my opinion.][Cannot imagine ANYthing coming out of Thailand being anything but distorted.]

I had 'invented' a form of meditation over the past 10 years, which, no matter how 'incorrect' it was with dream visions, early life regressions, and so on, it led to a great improvement in my life, so apologies if it was all wrong; still I would do it all over again.

Nearly a year ago, I was describing my system to an old friend and he said it was prana yama. Sure enough, Google confirmed that what I was doing was a close cousin, if not a twin brother. While saying what I do is an athletic event is not entrirely true, it's a better description than calling it a religious practice. I do it while walking, washing dishes, making love, talking to people, and so on; not wearing a white robe in a room full of flowers and candles.

As for the 'experience' of yesterday, it is the experience of 'today', as well. The session has not ended. I have gotten over the 'scariness' of it, or the worry it is dream that will evaporate. How can I explain? If you put the divergent thoughts 'can not' and 'do not have to' together, I cannot/do not have to meditate anymore. It's just happening automatically. I am quite liking it. It's like somebody is beside me in my head showing me the interesting beauty of the World, around. While there is pervading happiness, as part of the 'package'; there is this strong sense of responsibility, or that I am a 'caretaker' of a new gift, if that makes any sense.

I'm not sure if I'm supposed to say I feel Vishnu has rewarded me, so I won't, for now.

Anyway, Samuian thank you for the references in your Post. My skim read of them clicked and clicked with what I am experiencing.

I am going to wait awhile for my own vernacular to 'intertwine'; then you have given me a good 'base' for directed readed and to further better understanding.

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I never did consider acid flash backs. hmmmmmmmmmmm???? ahhh!!! No!

[haven't even smoked pot for decades]

[TrippRitter]

A "bit scary" is not normally what folks look for when meditating.

Although it may not be what most folks look for it is something that a lot of folks often discover. I have many Buddhist friends, mostly practitioners of Tibetan style Buddhism, and all of them have stated that they have at one time or another had some fairly intense frightening moments. However fearful they all appreciate and feel they learned from the experiences. We are talking about the exploration of consciousness which I would imagine can be very fearful at times especially if you discover things that conflict with what you have always believed to be true.

In terms of ditching your methods and finding someone who can teach you a more mainstream method I say screw that as well. Although I believe well known methods of meditation are great I think there is something to be said about discovering your mind through your own custom path rather than following a one size fits all template.

[seedy]

If I was in your situation, I would continue.

Discovering new things can be frightening, exhilarating, beautiful, shocking, painful, comforting ... The list goes on.

Life is a trip - travel well.

[Brucenkhamen]

In terms of ditching your methods and finding someone who can teach you a more mainstream method I say screw that as well. Although I believe well known methods of meditation are great I think there is something to be said about discovering your mind through your own custom path rather than following a one size fits all template.

Would you inject substances into your body unless you first had some understanding about what that substance was supposed to achieve, what other people experienced, and what the side effects were?

I think not, then why do it to your mind?

The Buddha spent several years with several teachers getting a grounding in the practices of his day, this gave him a solid foundation on which he could experiment and develop his own understanding, if it's good enough for him why isn't it good enough for you? This is how it goes with just about any skill you can learn today not just the spiritual ones, try learning the piano, architecture, surgery etc without first learning from those who have gone before you.

If you want to make things up as you go then at best expect to wander aimlessly never being sure about what is happening, at worst expect to get burnt with nobody at hand to help you out of it.

[TrippRitter]

Would you inject substances into your body unless you first had some understanding about what that substance was supposed to achieve, what other people experienced, and what the side effects were?

I think not, then why do it to your mind?

Altering your mind using chemical substances and temporarily clearing your mind and exploring it using natural methods are two entirely different things. How many people do you know who have gone crazy, shut down vital organs or killed themselves on accident through natural mediation? Bottom line is he will not continue down a particular path if it yields nothing but negativity and fear. He will adapt, overcome fear, modify his methods, focus on different chakras but he will not continue down a path that will end in his ultimate destruction.

The Buddha spent several years with several teachers getting a grounding in the practices of his day, this gave him a solid foundation on which he could experiment and develop his own understanding

In his early years he practiced techniques which were very extreme and also incorrect. Incorrect methods that helped him discover the correct path, the middle path.

I am not saying that what was right for the Buddha is wrong for you or anybody else. However Buddhism isn't as simple as being a point a to point b map to enlightenment. If that were the case there wouldn't be all the different forms of Buddhism. I also assume that the mediation used by the OP isn't some method he developed from the ground up on his own due to the fact that he says it mirrors Pranayama. Most likely he has developed his system using heavy influences that he has discovered from known Eastern practices. If I am wrong and he has developed Pranayama on his own without ever studying Buddhism, Yoga or other well known Eastern methods then I am seriously impressed and would encourage him to definitely continue his own thing. He may end up discovering a better path

For the record I wouldn't advise one come up with his own path from scratch ignoring all the teachings that are available, not because it would be dangerous, but because you would end up wasting a whole lot of time.

[Brucenkhamen]

I am not saying that what was right for the Buddha is wrong for you or anybody else. However Buddhism isn't as simple as being a point a to point b map to enlightenment. If that were the case there wouldn't be all the different forms of Buddhism. I also assume that the mediation used by the OP isn't some method he developed from the ground up on his own due to the fact that he says it mirrors Pranayama. Most likely he has developed his system using heavy influences that he has discovered from known Eastern practices. If I am wrong and he has developed Pranayama on his own without ever studying Buddhism, Yoga or other well known Eastern methods then I am seriously impressed and would encourage him to definitely continue his own thing. He may end up discovering a better path

For the record I wouldn't advise one come up with his own path from scratch ignoring all the teachings that are available, not because it would be dangerous, but because you would end up wasting a whole lot of time.

I'm not trying to be overly alarmist, you're right the most likely result will be a lot of time wasting, or just giving up.

I don't think most Meditation techniques are what you'd call dangerous as some might suggest, if someone is sensible and down to earth they should be able to back off or make the necessary adjustments when required. However a lot of people who do come to spiritual practice come with some far fetched expectations or are not naturally down to earth people. If they start practising Theravada Buddhist techniques then they soon learn to be very grounded as the techniques are very grounded, if not then I can't predict what will happen without guidance from a teacher.

If the OP is doing something approximating Pranayam then he should be asking this question on a Yoga discussion board, this isn't the place. If he wants a Buddhist perspective then I'm sure if I reported experiences like this to any of my teachers they would advise me to just note the mind imagining or dreaming or wandering and go back to the present moment awareness of the primary object.

[sabaijai]

"What happened to me today?"

I think "makyo" sums it up well.

As long is there an "I" experiencing something, there is no sati.

You might want to ask the same question in an online Hindu forum, or a New Age forum.

Cannot imagine ANYthing coming out of Thailand being anything but distorted

You should get around Thailand more. You might be surprised.

[fabianfred]

It appears to me that you have been practicing mindfulness (vipassana) and have made the great breakthrough to being aware of the insight called rupa/nama..... the difference between the observing mind and the observed body....

do not be scared...continue...... you are probably getting glimpses of Nirvana and reality....

My teacher Supawan Green had several similar experiences in her life. first was for five minutes...then a year later for seven months. Her final one ten years ago has not stopped...she is now considered to be Arahant.

She could be aware of reality instead of the illusions that most of us run around thinking are important.

[Brucenkhamen]

It appears to me that you have been practicing mindfulness (vipassana) and have made the great breakthrough to being aware of the insight called rupa/nama..... the difference between the observing mind and the observed body....

Could you please give us a reference where this state is described, preferably from the Pali Canon or something from your teacher in english.

[fabianfred]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namarupa

http://www.buddhanet.net/budsas/ebud/whatbudbeliev/73.htm

http://www.buddhamind.info/leftside/teachings/d-nama.htm

[Brucenkhamen]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namarupa

http://www.buddhanet.net/budsas/ebud/whatbudbeliev/73.htm

http://www.buddhamind.info/leftside/teachings/d-nama.htm

I'm missing something. The first two links explain the Pali words of rupa being the body and nama being the mind, as you'd expect. The last one explains how the body-mind process fits in terms of dependant origination and the khandas etc.

I see no description of a state of insight or meditation absorption called rupa nama, or any meditation state at all.

I see nothing remotely like " I sometimes reach a state of dream - awake consciousness. I have been to the interwoven Inner Temple of the Universe, had songs and poetry, delivered to me, astral traveled, while listening to Orawee had time warp for brief seconds, and other amazing things." nor a refinement of that to "smooth transition from here to there, instead; then I, for the first time looped back and forth."

Do you have some references or personal experience upon which you can base your confidence to diagnose the above over the internet?

[fabianfred]

I'm just guessing here...like everyone else.

It seemed to me that when the OP said that he meditates during doing ordinary daily tasks that he is practicing mindfulness.

Those who have achieved this first stage of namarupa say that they have a new awareness of the world...almost like an out of body experience.

Luang Por Tean seems to give similar stories when relating about his progress.

[Brucenkhamen]

I'm just guessing here...like everyone else.

It seemed to me that when the OP said that he meditates during doing ordinary daily tasks that he is practicing mindfulness.

Those who have achieved this first stage of namarupa say that they have a new awareness of the world...almost like an out of body experience.

Luang Por Tean seems to give similar stories when relating about his progress.

He never mentions practising mindfulness at all, and the meditation technique is is practising he says is similar a hindu intensive breathing technique called pranayam.

It's not uncommon for vipassana meditators to experience a feeling of being outside and above their body looking down, even I've experienced this at times, is this what you are referring to? It's also pretty common to go through periods of heightened awareness, like things suddenly become so clear and vivid. But these experiences are rooted in present moment mindfulness, not in imagination.

Anyway namarupa must be a Thai twist on a Pali phrase because I can't find any references to it being used the way you've used it.

[sabaijai]

I see nothing in the description approximating the experience of nama-rupa either.

[eggomaniac]

"What happened to me today?"

I think "makyo" sums it up well.

As long is there an "I" experiencing something, there is no sati.

You might want to ask the same question in an online Hindu forum, or a New Age forum.

Cannot imagine ANYthing coming out of Thailand being anything but distorted

You should get around Thailand more. You might be surprised.

I apologise for that comment. Sadness leads to anger, whether it takes a split second or 1/2 a life, and anger leads to errors.

[i'm sad and angry about some things, which should not be happening.]

No, I'm not a Tibetan Buddhist, or any other. I have recently concluded, 'my' conclusion, that Christ and Buddha are nearly equal Manifestations; Christ "there to here" and Buddha "here to there" [image and likeness]. Where to find the original meanings among all of the denominations and splinter groups is the puzzle. Buddhasassa's approach to learning and studying Buddhism is the one that has made the most sense to me. I believe he is 'technically' a Theravadan? < ? However, there are Theravadans who 'dismiss' his approach.

One day I would like to know more about the teachings of the Monk that King Mongkut built a denomination under, when Buddism, reportedly was langusihing and in dissarray.

[Want a head scratcher? I recently heard, and cofirmed, that Muslims believe Christ is soon returning. While they can believe that, they can't believe he returned from the dead? They say a look alike was crucified. <they say]

Does Buddhism have 'prophesies'?

Anyway, I am sorry I added that comment. I knew it was wrong but pushed the Button, anyway. Above is more like, but still not perfectly how I should have answered it.

[My little girl and I did 'end up' by accident or Fate, at the local museum on Saturday, just as a Tibetan Monk was completing a Sand Mandala and we went on Sunday for imperemance ceremony and the procession to put the sands in the ocean. He spoke lovely, happy and wise words.]

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HOLY COW, I just Googled makyo!

My 5 1/2 girl is asking me why I am belly chuckling and smiling from ear to ear. "I can't explain, It's complicated" - "Yes you can. yes you can" - " a man is calling me a devil" - "what's a debil?" "Do you know what a ghost is?" - "hmm" " A devil is a bad ghost" "aeyee, what man?" - " a man who lives in Thailand and studies Buddhism like Aunt Joy" - "Is he the king" -No."/"I said something wrong and I think he is mad at me." "Was his magination or yours?"

Ahh,, her mom just came home with a coloring book, I'm off the 100 question hook.

[Good thing I stopped chuckling befofe SHE asked me what I was laughing about.. shhhhh]

[eggomaniac]

I am not saying that what was right for the Buddha is wrong for you or anybody else. However Buddhism isn't as simple as being a point a to point b map to enlightenment. If that were the case there wouldn't be all the different forms of Buddhism. I also assume that the mediation used by the OP isn't some method he developed from the ground up on his own due to the fact that he says it mirrors Pranayama. Most likely he has developed his system using heavy influences that he has discovered from known Eastern practices. If I am wrong and he has developed Pranayama on his own without ever studying Buddhism, Yoga or other well known Eastern methods then I am seriously impressed and would encourage him to definitely continue his own thing. He may end up discovering a better path

For the record I wouldn't advise one come up with his own path from scratch ignoring all the teachings that are available, not because it would be dangerous, but because you would end up wasting a whole lot of time.

I'm not trying to be overly alarmist, you're right the most likely result will be a lot of time wasting, or just giving up.

I don't think most Meditation techniques are what you'd call dangerous as some might suggest, if someone is sensible and down to earth they should be able to back off or make the necessary adjustments when required. However a lot of people who do come to spiritual practice come with some far fetched expectations or are not naturally down to earth people. If they start practising Theravada Buddhist techniques then they soon learn to be very grounded as the techniques are very grounded, if not then I can't predict what will happen without guidance from a teacher.

If the OP is doing something approximating Pranayam then he should be asking this question on a Yoga discussion board, this isn't the place. If he wants a Buddhist perspective then I'm sure if I reported experiences like this to any of my teachers they would advise me to just note the mind imagining or dreaming or wandering and go back to the present moment awareness of the primary object.

As to not Posting here, those horses are already out the corral partner. The Replies have been 10 fold better than I could was even wishing. I have tons of good directions to look into.

As to the 'primary object' something Clicked on reading that. I am seriously going to search about that first off. Any explanations and descriptions of 'the primary object' by yourself or others would be appreciated.

[The Thai I spent 6 months in the same hospital room when I was a teen, who had a big influence on my life, maybe, partly, saved my life, at the same time I was reading and rereading "Autobiography of a Yogi", he meditated every night. I have described him in another Post, (grandfather orange robe, highly enlightened, grandmother white robe, psychic). He told me his meditation technique was to think only of his Teacher. He looked at his Teacher's picture while meditating. Is this in the 'realm' primary objectiveness?

I only know he was Thai, not what denomination.

[Yamantaka]

I have been a "practicing" Buddhist for thirty years. I have been meditating for over thirty years and teaching meditation for over twenty. There is nothing in meditation that should cause what you are describing. It sounds more like a chemical imbalance in the brain which can be a result of taking a lot of drugs even if it was four decades ago. I would suggest you get an EEG and possibly a CAT scan or MRI to see if there is any indication of malfunction in your nervous system.

[lungmi]

I have been a "practicing" Buddhist for thirty years. I have been meditating for over thirty years and teaching meditation for over twenty. There is nothing in meditation that should cause what you are describing. It sounds more like a chemical imbalance in the brain which can be a result of taking a lot of drugs even if it was four decades ago. I would suggest you get an EEG and possibly a CAT scan or MRI to see if there is any indication of malfunction in your nervous system.

Absolutely right. Not only drugs can be the cause, a "wild" meditation can provoke the same result. Irritations of meninx are a well-known

symptom of excessive non controlled meditation (sleep deprivation, unbalanced food, attachment to "magic" rituals).

[Brucenkhamen]

As to the 'primary object' something Clicked on reading that. I am seriously going to search about that first off. Any explanations and descriptions of 'the primary object' by yourself or others would be appreciated.

Here are some resources that might help;

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors...aro/guided.html

http://www.dharmanet.org/IM_lib_instruction.htm

http://www.insightmeditationcenter.org/boo...on-instruction/

[lungmi]

As to the 'primary object' something Clicked on reading that. I am seriously going to search about that first off. Any explanations and descriptions of 'the primary object' by yourself or others would be appreciated.

Here are some resources that might help;

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors...aro/guided.html

http://www.dharmanet.org/IM_lib_instruction.htm

http://www.insightmeditationcenter.org/boo...on-instruction/

Good intention, but I have to insist what Yamantaka said. I'm professional in a former life (MA Psychology), 20 years Buddhist meditation experience, now traditional doctor in a Buddhist Mountain Wat. We had in Wat Umong Chiang Mai many Farangs coming from India victims of the "wild " meditation, all the Indian devas and the gods were present in their hallucinations. My preceptor sent them to "walking meditation", feet on the earth, mind to the sky. They disappeared quickly.

My recommendation to eggomaniac: forget what you have too much in your mind. Walking meditation, one step with the highest awareness, the next step with the highest awareness. When an ant cross your way, give him a name.

[eggomaniac]

For those who have Posted helpful, friendly and directional thoughts, here is an update. For those hanging onto 'insipid', I suggest you cover your ears.

I now know that what I happened to do, not what happened to me, was great and good, totally amazing.

Starting on the Friday when the meditation session I was doing, based on a lifetime of reading and discussing, [self taught?], came out phenomenally, the 'session' never ended. 1/2 way through Sunday and into Monday I was very exhausted. I tried to think I was getting the flu, or something, but I knew what was causing the fatigue. One small part was the new governor that did not allow me, for the first time in my life, to have impure thoughts about women. Also, I was struggling with whether I was a 'new' me, or I was sharing with another me, one that looked at the World in wondrous ways and deprived me of my weaknesses.

On Monday night, I was completely 'tuckered' and decided to see if I could do an 'end meditation' meditation session. As I contemplated this 'duality' I had been experiencing, while doing my usual breathe relaxation, it immediately dawned on me that I was not a new me, or a dual me. The nearest way I can explain it, is that I was a 'one eye' most of my life;now I was two eyed, with binocular and perspective vision. Of course this metaphor about eyesight is only a tangible explanation of the whole affect. This happened quickly and smoothly and I was in dream wake from here to there, not there to here. Right away there were 7 snakes on my chest with gleaming eyes and ravenous mouths. you[/u] to cover your ears, lest your rude tongue would wave.] Luckily, I knew it was a 'test' and I said 'okay'. The snakes went up through my throat and face and began to eat large black parts of my mind while expertly avoiding the parts I still need. It was the most incredible, incredible I say, feeling/experience. To anybody who says it was wrong I will donate 1/2 a fart.

So, for the rest of the week sleep and wake patterns have become comfortable. I could just say everything is now 'hunky dory'. In my life I have told my children, and others how to behave. It is now like I have a built in teacher to monitor my own actions and deeds.

Oh, I am still puzzling with if I will ever have to meditate again, or find a higher form, or whether I am done with that practice.

Last night, when I was contemplating/meditating this question I became a lake in the mountains. Maybe awhile back I would have said 'it was a feeling that is impossible to describe'. It is actually quite easy to explain. When I slipped into my familiar dream wake consciousness I became a lake in the mountains.

It made me wonder something, 'Who would NOT want to be a lake in the mountains?'

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My theory is that when Buddha explained he had discovered a Universe of Nothing it was misinterpreted that the Universe was Nothing. In modern day terms, metaphorically, Buddha discovered the meaning of black holes and their relation to Time. Buddha was a man who used a combination of 1. our being made in the image and likeness of God and2. our free will, which no other Beings in Existence have, not Elements, not Animals, and not Gods. [they are bound by prophesies]

That is why Buddhism is a nonprophet religion, it is based on the true expression and fulfillment of our unique gift, free will. [The wise man who predicted Siddhartha would be a great king or great holy man was making an observation not a prophesy.]

If you do not know, Muslims believe in the prophesies of Daniel and that Christ will be returning to Earth. So do many Jews, now, as it was prophesied they would. That makes 3 major World religions all believing Christ is soon to return.

I don't think it would blasphemous for Buddhist to look at the signs and facts and say, sure, why not? [red heifer born in Israel, Temple stones properly quarried, now where is that Arc of the Covenent thingy?]

While I know Christ will be returning soon, what I LIKE about Buddhism is it makes all this killing a red heifer and antiChrist [Google Tony Blair antichrist if you want a hoot] stuff look so, is immature the right word? so juvenile. What I like about Christianity, Islam, Judism, is there is Something not Nothing.

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Does anybody find it ironic that Bill Gates' Spell Check made this Post possible, but assistance from Vishnu would be impossible to believe?

or was it dishonest John? nyahh ahhh ahhh

oh nearly forgot,,, the EXPERT who told me to get my head examined, the calculator says 14 more years until you reach doggy do level, can't help you with that ,, mate,,

[sabaijai]

Very entertaining, eggomaniac. Either your vision is real, or you have a very vivid imagination, or you're preparing a mythology by which to lead the Thai nation as its saviour and prophet, Joseph Solution tucked under your arm

I wish you all the luck in the furthering of your mystical path.

I am closing this thread since it has nothing to do with Buddhism, either in intention or practice.