Thailand's Suthep Blames Heartless People For Political Turmoil

[animatic]

Is it just me, or is the government completely destroying the PTP in this censure debate. Hard to argue with the truth - even though Jatuporn tries and tries.

Suthep is no angel but he provides needed balance to Abhisit as they pursue their agenda in their "good cop/bad cop" style. Watching Suthep rebut Jatuporn's bile last night reminded me a of a nature documentary I saw once wherein a giant snake ate a pig whole.

I'm still laughing at this one, 5 minutes later

That takes a week to digest too, rather tough meat...

I'm still have a happy snicker snee going.

[hammered]

Some allegation with some paperwork made against interior minister about proxie holding of company

[brahmburgers]

You guys just don't get it do you? Thaksin is the only Thai PM to have won 2 consecutive elections Abhisit has not won one. Abhisit is scared of holding a general election as he knows he will lose. There is no way he will call one until he absolutely has to. This will be great for the opposition Phue Thai party as they will have time to regroup and win the next election which will probably reslult in another coup as the Amart don't like the less well off running the country and here we go again who know who will occupy what but it will happen again it always does in Thai politics, welcome to Thailand and Thai politics!

One of the basic premises of Abhisit not bowing to the shouted demands of the rally heads, was he wanted to break the pattern of mob rule that has dominated much of Thai politics for awhile. I doubt A is afraid of an election. He offered to have one 15 months earlier than the Constitution required. Most Red leaders agreed. A few, including Thaksin and Seh Daeng wanted confrontation - so that's what happened. The Reds lost face and their support continues to ebb copiously.

The Abhisit administration probably has things they want to accomplish. The Reds want him out to pave the way for Thaksin's return. The Reds gambled and lost. They didn't accomplish anything positive with their rally, and now have zero bargaining power.

[Neurath]

Jutaporn has done the Dems and their allies a massive favour;his reported claims such as the govt burned down Central World and the blackshirts had nothing to do with the reds are risable, and will be seen as such by most Thais (incl by many reds ). I am not Sutheps biggest fan but his was a pretty good performance and he showed up Jutaporn for what he is,an ignorant bully. PT are going to be decimated at the next election after this farce, and they probably now realize this. Newins group will make big inroads into their position in parts of Isarn and they will be reduced to their heartland areas of KK and CM. I would guess you will see some split in the party with those who have always wanted to maintain some distance from the extremists emerging more as a faction and maybe spliting away, joining Newins group?Meanwhile the Dems standing has been enhanced by this and they should be able to ,at least, consolidate their position outside Isarn and also make a few gains here and there,enough to ensure they are the largest party in the house. Abhisit maybe tempted to call a November election after all!

Good insight, and I think a likely scenario. A different scenario might eventually be measured by the certain death toll of canvassers when electioneering does start.

You guys just don't get it do you? Thaksin is the only Thai PM to have won 2 consecutive elections Abhisit has not won one. Abhisit is scared of holding a general election as he knows he will lose. There is no way he will call one until he absolutely has to. This will be great for the opposition Phue Thai party as they will have time to regroup and win the next election which will probably reslult in another coup as the Amart don't like the less well off running the country and here we go again who know who will occupy what but it will happen again it always does in Thai politics, welcome to Thailand and Thai politics!

You mean like Chatchai Choonhavan and Thaksin Shinawat?

Take a look at this piece by Michael Connors (La Trobe/City University Hong Kong):

"Liberalism, Authoritarianism and the Politics of Decisionism in Thailand"

http://sovereignmyth.blogspot.com/2010/05/...ianism-and.html

There's a goodly amount of academic apparatus in it, but beyond that it clearly traces all the competing and overlapping power centers at work. It's very messy, but so is the situation here.

[Rucharee]

Chalerm hasnt so far lived up to the billing

Edited to add: Guess CNN report will overshadow this event. It is difficult to raise any issue and get interest in the shadow of other events. Many people will have watched this looking for signs of reconcilliatory talk. Abhisit did very well on aiming at this but nobody from PTP stood a chance with the blame the government for everything approach.

I must be the only unfortunate to have no CNN (and never seen a Radio Clock before).

I search the CNN web, no mention of this clip.

Can someone post a link to this said clip?

Many thanks in advance.

Thank you so much.

xxx

[animatic]

Enlightening isn't it?

To have Jatuporn arguing that his planned debacle is somehow the fault of the government

is as new level of hypocrisy that is stunning to see. 'The Fools Gold Standard' as it were.

This was a naked powerplay by the out of power puyai segment

masquarading behind the facade of Democracy

and the needs of the common folk of the north east.

------------------------------------------------------------------

I have asked this before and never once got an answer.

'What legislation to aid the poor of Issan has PPP or PTP ever presented in parliament,

let alone even got to a vote? '

'What parliamentary maneuvers has PPP or PTP ever successfully accomplished,

including censure motions?'

And add.

Have PTP and partners provided any funds for donation to the poor people

who were displaced by their political rallies, and lost jobs, daily wages and possessions

because PTP sponsored the Red Shirts to disrupt Bangkok to bring down the government????

Edited June 1, 2010 by animatic

[ratcatcher]

Enlightening isn't it?

To have Jatuporn arguing that his planned debacle is somehow the fault of the government

is as new level of hypocrisy that is stunning to see. 'The Fools Gold Standard' as it were.

This was a naked powerplay by the out of power puyai segment

masquarading behind the facade of Democracy

and the needs of the common folk of the north east.

------------------------------------------------------------------

I have asked this before and never once got an answer.

'What legislation to aid the poor of Issan has PPP or PTP ever presented in parliament,

let alone even got to a vote? '

'What parliamentary maneuvers has PPP or PTP ever successfully accomplished,

including censure motions?'

And add.

Have PTP and partners provided any funds for donation to the poor people

who were displaced by their political rallies, and lost jobs, daily wages and possessions

because PTP sponsored the Red Shirts to disrupt Bangkok to bring down the government????

Question 1. None

Question 2. None

Question 3. None.

Easy isn't it?

P.T.P. Spinning their wheels going nowhere fast.

Lots of sales talk, nothing in the warehouse. (All fart & no $hit!)

Anyone with evidence of Thaksin's or P.T.P.'s largesse to the poor please post.

[ballpoint]

...Anyone with evidence of Thaksin's or P.T.P.'s largesse to the poor please post.

That's not fair. Thaksin made great inroads in reducing the number of poor people, by having several thousand of them killed off.

[SomTumTiger]

...Anyone with evidence of Thaksin's or P.T.P.'s largesse to the poor please post.

That's not fair. Thaksin made great inroads in reducing the number of poor people, by having several thousand of them killed off.

funny but sad

[Thai at Heart]

...Anyone with evidence of Thaksin's or P.T.P.'s largesse to the poor please post.

Not quite evidence, but, how let us remember the heady days of not too long ago......................

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/...-524520,00.html

Seems as though he did more than just things for the poor. LOL

To her, and millions of other Thais, the good times are back. And for that, they say, there is one person to thank: the country's Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra. "Thais didn't used to have faith in him, but he has finally proved to us all that he knows what he's doing," she says

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/...l#ixzz0pcK4Zkvc

The catalysts for these gains are a passel of measures enacted by the government to revive rural economies and stimulate domestic demand. This approach has been widely dubbed "Thaksinomics"�and suddenly, everyone is a convert. Philippine President Gloria Macapagal Arroyo is a disciple and so is Indonesia's Megawati Sukarnoputri: both have adopted Thaksin-like programs for their countries. Even China, the engine of growth in the region, sent officials in July to investigate Thaksinomics' successes. "When Thaksin first talked about his [programs for rural recovery], everybody made fun of him," says Arroyo. "But one year later, other countries were also replicating it, including the Philippines."

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/...l#ixzz0pcKIrqfy

And the piece de resistance

"I never voted for Thaksin in the elections," says Bangkok-based advertising executive Kitti Chambundabongse. "I thought he was just another rich kid with a hunger for power. But he has proved to be so much more than that. He's given us the confidence we lacked."

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/...l#ixzz0pcKRGsBE

Now I wonder if some quick minded journalist still has his interviewees phone numbers.

Edited June 1, 2010 by Thai at Heart

[ballpoint]

How about telling the other side of Thaksinomics...

"Udol Kamta can attest to some of the program's drawbacks personally. Before Thaksin's Village Fund was launched, Udol had almost no debt. Today, the 50-year-old farmer and his family owe the fund $2,250, but the income he ekes out by tilling rice and red chilies is too meager for him to pay it off".

"Udol's tale of woe is far from unique. According to Nhonghoi's head chief, about half of the residents who borrowed from the fund have become snagged in a similar debt trap".

"Alican Tayukhen, the leader of a small Muslim community in the area, calls the Village Fund 'a lot of trouble. Thaksin played a game to please the villagers, but didn't realize the damage that would be done'".

"Some claim that Thaksin's economic programs are little more than populist handouts and easy-credit schemes that, like a caffeine high, won't produce lasting benefits. Some argue that his policies have contributed to a worrisome buildup of consumer debt that will exacerbate the next economic downturn. Thaksin's measures are "artificial," says Sompop Manarungsan, a political economist at Bangkok's Chulalongkorn University. If these "welfare-like" policies continue, "you'll have more and more distortions in the economy that can hurt future development," Sompop adds".

http://www.time.com/time/asia/2005/thai_thaksin/story2.html

Living in Isaan for many years before, during and after Thaksin I can fully vouch for the misery his handouts have caused to many. He could have used the money to upgrade the education system, but it was never in his interest to educate the poor, they were voting for him just the way they were. The last thing he wanted for an educated group to start questioning where the money was coming from, what his motives were, and why it wasn't being spent on longer lasting investment for the future of rural Thailand. No, it suited him far more to keep handing out the money and buy out the voters.

[Thai at Heart]

How about telling the other side of Thaksinomics...

"Udol Kamta can attest to some of the program's drawbacks personally. Before Thaksin's Village Fund was launched, Udol had almost no debt. Today, the 50-year-old farmer and his family owe the fund $2,250, but the income he ekes out by tilling rice and red chilies is too meager for him to pay it off".

"Udol's tale of woe is far from unique. According to Nhonghoi's head chief, about half of the residents who borrowed from the fund have become snagged in a similar debt trap".

"Alican Tayukhen, the leader of a small Muslim community in the area, calls the Village Fund 'a lot of trouble. Thaksin played a game to please the villagers, but didn't realize the damage that would be done'".

"Some claim that Thaksin's economic programs are little more than populist handouts and easy-credit schemes that, like a caffeine high, won't produce lasting benefits. Some argue that his policies have contributed to a worrisome buildup of consumer debt that will exacerbate the next economic downturn. Thaksin's measures are "artificial," says Sompop Manarungsan, a political economist at Bangkok's Chulalongkorn University. If these "welfare-like" policies continue, "you'll have more and more distortions in the economy that can hurt future development," Sompop adds".

http://www.time.com/time/asia/2005/thai_thaksin/story2.html

Living in Isaan for many years before, during and after Thaksin I can fully vouch for the misery his handouts have caused to many. He could have used the money to upgrade the education system, but it was never in his interest to educate the poor, they were voting for him just the way they were. The last thing he wanted for an educated group to start questioning where the money was coming from, what his motives were, and why it wasn't being spent on longer lasting investment for the future of rural Thailand. No, it suited him far more to keep handing out the money and buy out the voters.

Absolutely. I was amazed when people thought that having the Philippines and Indonesia copying a policy in some way proved that it was effective.

It just shows how quickly popularity can rise and in this case fall very far.

[mazeltov]

Is it just me, or is the government completely destroying the PTP in this censure debate. Hard to argue with the truth - even though Jatuporn tries and tries.

Looks like Mr Rivers has stolen their thunder.

Now why would armed red shirts dress up in military fatigues while hanging around the skytrain...? What could possibly be the reason for passing themselves off as military personnel...?

Terrorist don't wear only military fatigues but also civilian clothes while hanging around with the security forces.

[animatic]

Nice try to derail a solid thread on a valid subject.

Folks keep on the original tact and ignore this.

It's be more that well covered in other derailed threads.

[plachon]

...Anyone with evidence of Thaksin's or P.T.P.'s largesse to the poor please post.

That's not fair. Thaksin made great inroads in reducing the number of poor people, by having several thousand of them killed off.

funny but sad

And those he didn't kill off, he deported to Lao and Cambodia, like the dogs during the APEC Meeting he hosted. I personally saw those poor mutts being driven across Laos to their fate in the restaurants of Vietnam.

Funniest thing I heard all day was that wannabe kick boxer Karun Hosakul was arrested with other Redshirt leaders / financiers today. Guess his parliamentry immunity has expired and he can't rely on Uncle Chai to pull him out of trouble, after he fell flat on his face in the Parliament canteen. Karun Karma........

[jdinasia]

It is more than obvious that the protesters caused the violence whether they participated in it, or not. Furthermore, they have ruined all credibility by turning down the PM's peace deal and rioting and burning down buildings all over the country.

I was sympathetic towards them before they showed their true colors, but actions speak louder than lies, spin and phoney justifications. After all this, they need to abandon violence and violent leaders and try to change things legally and peacefully.

I know you probably aren't online .... but why didn't Songkran 2009 ... or Arsiaman's calls to burn BKK BEFORE the rally change your mind?

[jdinasia]

Is it just me, or is the government completely destroying the PTP in this censure debate. Hard to argue with the truth - even though Jatuporn tries and tries.

Suthep is no angel but he provides needed balance to Abhisit as they pursue their agenda in their "good cop/bad cop" style. Watching Suthep rebut Jatuporn's bile last night reminded me a of a nature documentary I saw once wherein a giant snake ate a pig whole.

Suthep scares me a little ---- but he did a great job!

[Roadman]

Is it just me, or is the government completely destroying the PTP in this censure debate. Hard to argue with the truth - even though Jatuporn tries and tries.

Looks like Mr Rivers has stolen their thunder.

Now why would armed red shirts dress up in military fatigues while hanging around the skytrain...? What could possibly be the reason for passing themselves off as military personnel...?

Terrorist don't wear only military fatigues but also civilian clothes while hanging around with the security forces.

Well done. You actually answered another one of your pathetic inuendo's yourself, and one of your favourites. "Security forces". Well done.

I would hate to work for you in such a situation.

You "Roadman we want you to recon into the Reds lines"

As Roadman is preparing to switch into normal civiies to blend in "No in full uniform".

Get over it. The Reds committed murder of Army personnel on April 10th that moved a protest across into terrorism. End of story and Sae Dung, Blacks and Reds inciting and carrying out acts of terrorism had to be dealt to with minimum casualties, which was undertaken. Well done to Khun Anupong and Khun Abhisit and their teams for completing the mission with minimum casualties.

The spin I really love is how the Army and Abhisit are responsible for 88 lives. Does that include the five Army personnel who were murdered on (May - incorrect date self edited) April 10th from within the Red ranks?

Edited June 1, 2010 by Roadman

[Robby nz]

Would seem we are getting some truth now as to how many were killed and injured:

Of the death toll, 76 are civilians, and 11 others are police and military officers. Of the total injuries, 993 are civilians and 413 others are officers. The total casualties since 15 March presently stands at 1,493.

That means almost half the injured were soldiers or police and shows how deadly the reds bombs, grenades and shooting was.

The fact that there were not more army and police deaths can probably be put down to better first aid and evecuation.

Things must of course be broken down farther into civilian deaths and injuries caused by either side. Not all civilian deaths were caused by the armed forces as quite a number were caused by the bombs, grenades and shooting of the reds.

At present it seems we dont know just how many were caused by either side but possibly soon someone will be able to work this out then we will be getting closer to the truth of just how deadly the reds really were.

[scutaro]

Funniest thing I heard all day was that wannabe kick boxer Karun Hosakul was arrested with other Redshirt leaders / financiers today. Guess his parliamentry immunity has expired and he can't rely on Uncle Chai to pull him out of trouble, after he fell flat on his face in the Parliament canteen. Karun Karma........

Guess the PTP MP Karun never did honor his promise as a PPP MP:

Heat on Karun as house panel finds him guilty

By The Nation

Published on May 10, 2008

People Power Party MP Karun Hosakul was yesterday asked to honour his promise to resign after he was found guilty of physical and verbal attacks against Democrat MP Somkiart Pongpaiboon inside Parliament on April 2.

A fact-finding report reached a unanimous decision concluding that Karun had assaulted Somkiart and used rude language, MP Vichet Panvichartkul said yesterday.

The report will be forwarded for the House's deliberation on punishment.

Karun could not be reached for comment yesterday.

Meanwhile, Democrat Party Secretary-General Suthep Thuagsuban said he wondered if Karun would keep his promise to quit his MP post.

But then again, he's about as good as PTP gets:

FIT of FURY

By The Nation

Published on April 3, 2008

A government coalition MP decided to take things to a physical level yesterday by kicking an opposition member.

People Power Party member Karun Hosakul kung-<deleted> kicked Democrat Somkiart Pongpaiboon

Witnesses say Somkiart was eating with colleagues at the Parliament cafeteria when Karun entered and launched his ineffective attack. Karun then lashed out with a fist, but missed again. Then the pair got into a shouting match, with Somkiart on the end of heated abuse.

In fact, Karun got so worked up that he had to be restrained by police officers and other PPP members.

A violent history

>> Karun Hosakul, 41, allegedly beat his former wife, Ratchadawan. In April 2005, she divorced him.

>> Two months after the divorce, Karun attacked her at Don Mueang Airport as she returned from a trip abroad. Karun grabbed her hair, slapped her and threatened to disfigure her. She was rescued by airport guards.

>> In 2006, Karun assaulted a guard at an abandoned cinema, when he and his friends were refused entry. He kicked the guard twice in the head, reportedly shouting: "I will be back. Don't you know who I am?"

>> In 2007, as a Bangkok City Councillor, Karun head-butted an undercover policeman at a cock fight.

>> In 2005, Karun was stopped from contesting a Bangkok seat because he lacked the educational

qualifications required.

Edited June 2, 2010 by scutaro

[Ulysses G.]

It is more than obvious that the protesters caused the violence whether they participated in it, or not. Furthermore, they have ruined all credibility by turning down the PM's peace deal and rioting and burning down buildings all over the country.

I was sympathetic towards them before they showed their true colors, but actions speak louder than lies, spin and phony justifications. After all this, they need to abandon violence and violent leaders and try to change things legally and peacefully.

I know you probably aren't online .... but why didn't Songkran 2009 ... or Arsiaman's calls to burn BKK BEFORE the rally change your mind?

I felt that the redshirts had some legitimate grievances (I still do) and hoped that the talk was mostly just rhetoric to force the opposition to listen to them. There was violence, but there usually is when large groups of citizens question authority - and until recent events - the yellows were not a whole lot better than the reds. Unfortunately, it is difficult to change the system anywhere without causing those in power a lot of inconvenience.

When things got very serious and Thaksin refused to consider a peace deal, I started to see the light. However, a few weeks later when the PM bent over backwards to accommodate the protesters by moving up the election and actually having Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban turn himself in to the police and the reds started demanding even more, I knew that they were not really interested in negotiating. That deal could have gotten the reds a real chance to make things better and saved many lives.

I can see how someone would still be sympathetic towards what the low level reds think they are fighting for, but it has become pretty obvious to anyone who lives here that their leaders are just using them in a power struggle and do not care about improving their lives.

IMHO, almost all of the posters who still post their support (for what the reds have ended up as) are either trolls who like to stir the sh_t or stone cold nuts. There are a few exceptions - like winniethe kwai - but in general, these posters are not to be taken seriously.

[Samuian]

Is it just me, or is the government completely destroying the PTP in this censure debate. Hard to argue with the truth - even though Jatuporn tries and tries.

Looks like Mr Rivers has stolen their thunder.

Now why would armed red shirts dress up in military fatigues while hanging around the skytrain...? What could possibly be the reason for passing themselves off as military personnel...?

Terrorist don't wear only military fatigues but also civilian clothes while hanging around with the security forces.

Well done. You actually answered another one of your pathetic inuendo's yourself, and one of your favourites. "Security forces". Well done.

I would hate to work for you in such a situation.

You "Roadman we want you to recon into the Reds lines"

As Roadman is preparing to switch into normal civiies to blend in "No in full uniform".

Get over it. The Reds committed murder of Army personnel on April 10th that moved a protest across into terrorism. End of story and Sae Dung, Blacks and Reds inciting and carrying out acts of terrorism had to be dealt to with minimum casualties, which was undertaken. Well done to Khun Anupong and Khun Abhisit and their teams for completing the mission with minimum casualties.

The spin I really love is how the Army and Abhisit are responsible for 88 lives. Does that include the five Army personnel who were murdered on (May - incorrect date self edited) April 10th from within the Red ranks?

In the red Terminology and Thaksinologic YES!

One may assume that the aim was to have things escalate, that no matter what, the Army finally had to make a move - it was written - after the road map to reconciliation offered by the government and it's indirect refusal through new conditions by the reds, all over the wall - escalation at any price - "come and get us/me"!

Someone needed this "proof" of an "evil military dictatorship" government, it was badly needed for the "defense" of his very own case, but the government or army wasn't easily lured into any use of brute force.... so it had to be forced into making a move - brute force against the Security personal - and "see this government can't control the country, cannot keep law and order!"

Everyone else, except the "hard core red shirt movement" and some "secret dark/black forces" of course, is responsible for all the damage and deaths, this instigated "uprising" caused, to make their opponents look evil!

You too! You too.... guilt is nagging on someones subconsciousness!

If it wouldn't be such a serious and evil matter - its' quite funny really, the concept is that of a .... ah' well I keep this secret to me - most can guess it anyway!

Edited June 2, 2010 by Samuian

[hammered]

Well Chalerm finally returned to his enforcer days with totally obnmoxious and rude outburts unfortunately fairly short on substance but it will have proved his loyalty to fight for master and gone down well with the total converts especially after he was so critical of the reds and their leadership earlier. Nice play to please Thaksin

Now everyone is lookign at Peau Pandin to see how many nays they give and PTP to see how many of those that voted with the government on the budget bill the other day do so again

[animatic]

Is it just me, or is the government completely destroying the PTP in this censure debate. Hard to argue with the truth - even though Jatuporn tries and tries.

Suthep is no angel but he provides needed balance to Abhisit as they pursue their agenda in their "good cop/bad cop" style. Watching Suthep rebut Jatuporn's bile last night reminded me a of a nature documentary I saw once wherein a giant snake ate a pig whole.

Suthep scares me a little ---- but he did a great job!

Good cop / Bad cop.

Carrot and Stick.

Talk softly, but carry a big stick etc.

Abhisit was the resonable face of negotiation and dialog.

Suthep was the countervailing force, who cared little for nice reputation,

and more for dealing with the nitty gritty reality of push coming to shove.

If he didn't scare you a bit, he wasn't doing his job.

We are talking about governments here not Rotary Club fights over

which project to use for next years charity fete. Governments by their very nature,

must deal with, more questions with less than perfect answers, than can be worked on

in any business day, and are always playing catch up to changing realities.

Add in a uber-malevolent force bent on the governments destruction, and reasonable

probability, of the mainstream populace losing control of their lives to a graft ridden

clique of vengeful amoralists, it makes for a slowed decision making process.

That so much reasonable concession and gentleness was used by Abhisit for so long,

in spite of the vilest of name calling towards him, it makes it easier to understand

when he MUST use the power vested in his chair to put a stop to insurrection and calumny.

Interestingly during this censure debate, Suthep had on the calm, considered,

and quietly devastating face, such an opposite versus Jatuporn's railing an flailing.

So, now the PTP/Reds want a road show, blaming communications snafus,

because their words never got the propaganda value they wanted. Oh the tears!

And of course touring the northeast with their show and tell bile,

will not have Abhisit and Suthep's or their spokesmen's calm rebuttals,

since we all know Reds WILL attack them should they go up there.

Fish paste mobs or M79's from stealth it wouldn't be safe,

so the propaganda offensive continues and the PTP/Reds try to recover lost face.

Lies and degradations to come... any wonder an election isn't soon in the cards.

PTP the Energizer Bunny of ill will and greed.

Edited June 2, 2010 by animatic

[hammered]

Censure deabte over. All minsiters survive easily. Opposition seen to have done a poor job by neutrals. End of story. Lets move on to the next play in the game

[webfact]

related news

Government Passes Censure Debate with Flying Colors

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=3660300