PM Abhisit With Grave Concern Over Thailand's Severe Drought Problem

[tigermonkey]

global warming is a myth

I'm sorry to hear you weren't born with a sense of sight or hearing ability. Just look around you. A myth? What an ignorant thing to say! You arrived in Thailand by....Bangkok?!

Actually global warming hysteria incorporates many myths -- I'm not sure just what " a sense of sight or hearing ability " has to do with this -- but have you seen an ocean rise ? -- have you heard Al Gore predicting doom for his own profit ? -- have you seen a computer model of global warming that has not been ' rigged ' ? -- have you heard the global icecaps breaking up ? -- have you you seen the temperatures rising all over the world ? -- have you heard the recanting of their 'global warming' hysteria by the leading scientific groups in Britain, France and India ? -- have you heard, etc ......... you get the picture.

None are so blind as those who refuse to see !! -- that is true ignorance. If you want some online publications to read , PM me.

I do not understand your questioning of the poster's means of arrival. I am not sure how arrival in Thailand affects one's credibility, but I personally arrive several times a year in Thailand ( my adopted home) via Bangkok, Chiang Mai and sometimes by vehicle from Laos and Cambodia.

[bangon04]

Rainfall has dropped dramatically in recent years, The Rainy seasons have not been very rainy. And water conservation in Thailand is bad

Well, let's cut more trees and reduce jungle and rainforest's coverage even lower than ever before!!!

So that when the rains do come, there is the added benefit of deadly mudslides.

[elkangorito]

I think that this thread could easily connect with the following thread:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Insects-Drou...-T-t364541.html

[Thai at Heart]

But subsistence farming of rice is one of the cornerstones of Thai culture! Regular drought and floods keeps the farmers in their place. Bringing efficiency into farming is just not the Thai way. Otherwise small farmers would make a decent living, and challenge the whole concept of the sufficiency economy which has been designed especially for them.

I would doubt very much if anyone would agree that sufficiency economy actually can be squeezed into any of the relevant selling markets for any of the major produces in Thailand. In itself, it can protect and possibly provide for a basic family in pure agrarian markets.

No one in the rice millers or any other market gives a single satang about sufficiency living. The purchasing, contracting and government assistance essentially insulates the buyers from all risks (weather, pest, disaster) and pushes all of the risks onto the farmers. This however, doesn't change the fact that by not pricing water as an input it makes rice disproportionately cheap since it is so water intensive.

There are huge tracts of land in this country in which rice should never even be attempted to be grown because of the marginal quality of the land and probable lack of water, but by essentially providing free water rice production is always a risk worth taking.

By pricing water even at a nominal amount, it would at least stop the ever increasing spread of rice farming and the fight for water and increase the desirability and profitability of other types of crops. We are sitting in a country that is claiming drought, that for portions of the year essentially takes perfectly useable water and floods half its land area for a crop that will be exported. And yet the government gets involved either in pledging or holding the minimum price up. The logical answer would be to grow less rice to balance the supply. But then when did logic apply in Thailand.

As others mentioned, at times it is so freely available, we toss it around. Maybe we should throw surplus rice at each other during Songkran and wash it down the drain to improve the prices?

The market of producing and selling versus milling and export rice in Thailand seems impervious to any economic logic that anyone can understand from a western perspective of agricultural production.

[earthpig]

The issue is that the recent dry periods are becoming more severe due to, in large part, global warming and climate change.

In truth, no one knows if global warming and alleged climate change are real or not.

But we do know two things, and might ponder a third.

1) The cyclically recurring El Nino phenomenon causes droughts in SE Asia and, yes, this is an El Nino year. As soon as meteorologists started predicting this El Nino last year, they began predicting drought here.

2) In climate change, it appears Tejas has found religion. Let's all congratulate him on his new found faith, and hope that he continues to find personal fulfillment in spreading the good word.

3) The substantial fall in the "global" (ie CME) price of rice correlates well to the fall in price of many other agricultural commodities. It does not correlate well to drought conditions in the world's largest exporter of this product.

Hint.

[Thai at Heart]

The issue is that the recent dry periods are becoming more severe due to, in large part, global warming and climate change.

In truth, no one knows if global warming and alleged climate change are real or not.

But we do know two things, and might ponder a third.

1) The cyclically recurring El Nino phenomenon causes droughts in SE Asia and, yes, this is an El Nino year. As soon as meteorologists started predicting this El Nino last year, they began predicting drought here.

2) In climate change, it appears Tejas has found religion. Let's all congratulate him on his new found faith, and hope that he continues to find personal fulfillment in spreading the good word.

3) The substantial fall in the "global" (ie CME) price of rice correlates well to the fall in price of many other agricultural commodities. It does not correlate well to drought conditions in the world's largest exporter of this product.

Hint.

Indeed a microclimate of drought covering one agricultural basin does not prove global warming, particularly when up stream of the basin, people are building damns.

That said, attempting to open up ever increasing areas to flood irrigation is a disastrous strategy, when the aim should be to maximise production in the areas already available. Increasing production can only created in two ways, producing more per rai or using more rai.

It isn't relevant to think of rice being produced in kg/rai of land, more in kg/litre of water utilised.

[leedstony]

global warming is a myth

i kind of agree, if we have global warming, then the sea's are warmer, so we should get more evapouration??

ie more clouds and more rain

so why is this not happening and the only thing that IS happening is governments jumping on the bandwaggon and taxing us more??

[philliphn]

Theres a hole in my buket my buket my buket.

Theres a hole in my buket my buket a hole.

Then get a bigger buket bigger buket bigger buket.

Then get a bigger buket bigger buket dear Thai!

[Valentine]

global warming is a myth

i kind of agree, if we have global warming, then the sea's are warmer, so we should get more evapouration??

ie more clouds and more rain

so why is this not happening and the only thing that IS happening is governments jumping on the bandwaggon and taxing us more??

Read the post about El Nino which states that it causes drought conditions in Thailand. In other places it can cause abnormally high rainfall. None of this rules out the possibility of global warming. Droughts are a problem here because there is no coherent water management system in place.

[RickBradford]

Global warming is not a myth. Man-made global warming is the myth.

But it's more than that. It is a serious belief held by many well-meaning people who have a psychological need to blame humanity (particularly successful capitalists) for supposed damage to our environment.

Like many faiths, it has no basis in reality, but exerts a strong hold on the minds of those who have embraced it.

One of the problems with these fundamentalists is that they have no perspective on themselves, no self-awareness.

They never recognize that their way of thinking is just one of many other possible ways of thinking, which may be equally useful or good. On the contrary, they believe their way is the right way, everyone else is wrong; they are in the business of salvation, and they want to help you to see things the right way. They want to help you be saved. They are totally rigid and totally uninterested in opposing points of view.

[Tejas]

Global warming is not a myth. Man-made global warming is the myth.

But it's more than that. It is a serious belief held by many well-meaning people who have a psychological need to blame humanity (particularly successful capitalists) for supposed damage to our environment.

Like many faiths, it has no basis in reality, but exerts a strong hold on the minds of those who have embraced it.

One of the problems with these fundamentalists is that they have no perspective on themselves, no self-awareness.

They never recognize that their way of thinking is just one of many other possible ways of thinking, which may be equally useful or good. On the contrary, they believe their way is the right way, everyone else is wrong; they are in the business of salvation, and they want to help you to see things the right way. They want to help you be saved. They are totally rigid and totally uninterested in opposing points of view.

The trolls have come out in force (once again). Now we are off topic...........reading total BS taken off of Exxon-Mobile funded websites.

Let's all stand up a cheer for all of the companies that want us to continue to pay high prices at the pump and pollute the atmosphere

Back to the actual topic.

In terms of climate change, there is little Thailand can do to stop it.............that takes a global wide effort.

But it seems to me Thailand could dig some deep water lakes (lots of them).

And it could adopt more water-efficient agricultural techniques.

Conservation? Virtually every house where I live captures rainwater and uses it.........that almost never happens in the USA.

I am sure if we were to compare per capita water usage in the USA and Thailand, the USA figure would be far greater.

SongKran? Once per year..........plays no role at all in the big picture.

[thaiedward]

Unfortunately, due to our environmentally unsound economic activities (principally our reliance on non-renewable energy), climate change is a reality.

Of course, climate has always changed.

What is alarming is the pace and intensity of climate change.

Evidence suggests that droughts are increasing worldwide.

Modern humans have adapted to regional-specific climate realities.

The pace and intensity of climate change is starting to disrupt adaptive responses/patterns/cycles.

One can easily predict that food production in Thailand will be negatively impacted by climate change.

One can also predict that social chaos will follow.

Solutions:

1) reduce population levels worldwide (to try to curb economic growth)

2) develop a new system of energy that is inexpensive and does not pollute and lead to global warming/climate change

3) greatly increase recycling, energy efficiency, water conservation measures, and passive solar design

4) use market forces to increase the use of existing sustainable energy forms

5) ensure that the price of oil reflects its real cost to society (this will stimulate the use of alternative forms of energy)

6) plant trees........as many as possible (for those who may not know, trees absorb CO2, thus reducing the impact of global warming)

7) shift to a quality driven economy (as opposed to a quantity driven economy)

And now........here come the "global warming isn't real" trolls.

Your comments are like rays of light, for my part.

And thanks for listing population growth in first-place.

I'm forced to wonder: whatever happened to the concept of ZPG (zero population growth)?

Has it been deemed to be incompatible with capitalism masquerading as free trade?

Hope to read more of your posts.

[RickBradford]

Now we are off topic...........reading total BS taken off of Exxon-Mobile funded websites.

Let's all stand up a cheer for all of the companies that want us to continue to pay high prices at the pump and pollute the atmosphere

You illustrate my point perfectly:

One of the problems with these fundamentalists is that ... [T]hey are totally rigid and totally uninterested in opposing points of view.

[Tejas]

Your comments are like rays of light, for my part.

And thanks for listing population growth in first-place.

I'm forced to wonder: whatever happened to the concept of ZPG (zero population growth)?

Has it been deemed to be incompatible with capitalism masquerading as free trade?

Hope to read more of your posts.

Thank you.....really, it is nice to know intelligent life exits on the planet

The trolls on this thread.........wow...........what can you say about them?

It is a good argument for population control

ZPG is a great concept....fertility levels (almost worldwide) have been dropping for some time.

But that just means more (massive) annual growth. Why? Because, as you know, we have billions of people on the planet reproducing.

Even if they have two children, the world population grows significantly, adding to all of our woes.

You already understand the main question people should ask with regard to population reduction: Is population reduction incompatible with present day global capitalism?

Yes........it is..........and that is never talked about--especially in political circles--because it is "taboo."

Why taboo?

1) Because too many people are blinded by emotion/religion and can't grasp reason/science.

2) The ruling elite (those that control the corporate-political-military power structure) don't want significant population reduction

The real issue is this: As presently structured, capitalism demands growth.

The reason for the globalization of the economy was to continue growth......the only way to do that was to turn the developing world's consumers into American-like consumers.

The global corporations (and ruling elite) figured that out a long time ago and began the globalization process.

Also in their self-interest is population growth. Why? More consumers = more money (and to hel_l with future generations).

Too much growth and the system falls apart due to social chaos (that is one major reason for the now over 1 trillion dollars spent on the military worldwide......to keep the system going in the face of social chaos...........and pretend it is about freedom and democracy).

The globalization of the economy creates what amounts to a global slave labor class.........interchangeable on a global scale. This shifts power away from labor to the hands of those who do the hiring: large corporations.

This is the main reason labor unions are on the ropes worldwide.

A labor supply problem has been deliberately created by the ruling elite: too many people; too few quality jobs.

That forces the cost of labor down.............who wins? Large corporations.

Who loses? Labor worldwide.

The need to increase the number of consumers worldwide has led to another problem: global warming and climate change.

Why? Because the entire global economy is underpinned by an environmentally destructive energy platform (fossil fuel energy).

So, power has shifted to the ruling elites worldwide...........the masses have lost control.............the environment is being damaged..........nothing serious is being done to reach ZPG (zero population growth) and even NPG (negative population growth) because the global corporations don't want that.

This is a global power game that involves enormous sums of money..............and most of us have no idea it is even happening.

No, I can assure you, I am far from delusional.

What does this have to do with drought in Thailand. Well, it is all connected but I am not going to take more time painting the entire picture.

Suffice to say, within the next decade or two regional sustainability (economic and population security) will surface as a mandatory security issue. Governments worldwide will attempt to attain it. It will be the new goal.

Why? Because, eventually, the fact that the present system has failed will become self-evident, even to the trolls that are reading this.

[Robby nz]

This has all been done before here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Insects-Drou...-T-t364541.html

however as my prime interest in water until recent years has been the extraction of fish and there appears to be some experts here I will ask a couple of questions:

Isnt water a recyclable resource?

It falls as rain then either evapourates up again to once more fall as rain or is used by plants and animals before being released to also rise as evapouration or soaks into the ground to become reusable subteranian water.

In a warmer climate shouldnt there be more evapouration and therefore more rain?

What with supposed melting of ice caps retreat of glaciers (stored water) shouldnt there be more available?

My take on it is that about the same amount of water is falling as rain only in different places because of the El Nilo - La Nineo effect on global weather patterns.

A comment on Global warming ahh sorry climate change now (allows a dollar each way):

Saw an interesting debate about a week back on TV where a Brit, Lord Montague I think, took on a couple of Yanks on the subject. The lord produced several peer reviewed studies that showed that climate change was not caused by man but was natural these were actual in the air and on the ground studies where as most studies that predict climate change are computer models. The Lord challanged the other 2 to produce studies to back their point and they could not.

He also stated that CO2 was not a harmful gas as without it plants could not live and that concentrations 1000 time more than present would not harm the planet.

Someone on the other thread worked out that at the present stated level of warming it would take 384 years (think thats the number) for the temp in TL to rise 1dc.

In NZ the Govt is trying to show how green they are by introducing carbon taxes they tried to introduce a tax on farmers for animal emmissions, Fart Tax would you believe, they got laughted out on that one.

They also pay for the planting of trees but only pine trees it would seem, forestry companies plant the trees get payment then in 25 years cut them down for timber and paper, replant and go back to the trough for another go.

Have a friend who has several acres of native bush he has put into a covenant so it can never be cut down, he gets nothing for this but if he felled the lot and planted pines he would get paid???????????

[RickBradford]

Brit, Lord Montague I think,

Lord Monckton. Former scientific advisor to the UK government. He infuriates Warmists because he is erudite and witty, and Warmists don't have a sense of humour. Their only response is to deride him as a 'goggly-eyed nutcase' (he suffers from Graves' Disease, which cause the eye protrusion).

He has also been studying climate for many years and has come to the conclusion than there is nothing in it.

The lord produced several peer reviewed studies that showed that climate change was not caused by man but was natural these were actual in the air and on the ground studies where as most studies that predict climate change are computer models. The Lord challanged the other 2 to produce studies to back their point and they could not.

They never can, no matter how many times you ask.

As for animal emissions, Australia has it worse than NZ. Penny Wong, the climate minister, demonstrated her credentials perfectly when she denied that Australia's 1 million feral camels emit CO2 equivalent to 300,000 cars. Her office says the figure is only 500 cars. Why? Because only domestic camels 'count" under the Kyoto Protocol.

"It's now reached the absurd situation where a camel in captivity is a threat to the planet but a feral camel in the wild is absolutely fine," Opposition climate action spokesman Greg Hunt said.

[Tejas]

This has all been done before here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Insects-Drou...-T-t364541.html

however as my prime interest in water until recent years has been the extraction of fish and there appears to be some experts here I will ask a couple of questions:

Isnt water a recyclable resource?

It falls as rain then either evapourates up again to once more fall as rain or is used by plants and animals before being released to also rise as evapouration or soaks into the ground to become reusable subteranian water.

In a warmer climate shouldnt there be more evapouration and therefore more rain?

What with supposed melting of ice caps retreat of glaciers (stored water) shouldnt there be more available?

My take on it is that about the same amount of water is falling as rain only in different places because of the El Nilo - La Nineo effect on global weather patterns.

A comment on Global warming ahh sorry climate change now (allows a dollar each way):

Saw an interesting debate about a week back on TV where a Brit, Lord Montague I think, took on a couple of Yanks on the subject. The lord produced several peer reviewed studies that showed that climate change was not caused by man but was natural these were actual in the air and on the ground studies where as most studies that predict climate change are computer models. The Lord challanged the other 2 to produce studies to back their point and they could not.

He also stated that CO2 was not a harmful gas as without it plants could not live and that concentrations 1000 time more than present would not harm the planet.

Someone on the other thread worked out that at the present stated level of warming it would take 384 years (think thats the number) for the temp in TL to rise 1dc.

In NZ the Govt is trying to show how green they are by introducing carbon taxes they tried to introduce a tax on farmers for animal emmissions, Fart Tax would you believe, they got laughted out on that one.

They also pay for the planting of trees but only pine trees it would seem, forestry companies plant the trees get payment then in 25 years cut them down for timber and paper, replant and go back to the trough for another go.

Have a friend who has several acres of native bush he has put into a covenant so it can never be cut down, he gets nothing for this but if he felled the lot and planted pines he would get paid???????????

Saltwater dominates the planet. Most of the fresh water on the planet is:

1) locked up in glaciers (that are melting)........and the water eventually makes its way to the ocean where it mixes with saltwater.

2) too deep to access (it is well known that underground aquifers that are accessible are being depleted at a faster rate than they are being replenished...a major and growing problem that will lead to water wars in the future)

The amount of freshwater that is readily accessible is small in comparison to the total amount of freshwater on the planet. Still, it is a huge amount......enough for over 10 billion people.

The "fresh water problem" is, in large part, about the fact that it is unevenly distributed on the planet.......so, it becomes a distribution problem, getting it from where it is in large supply to where it is needed but in small supply.

The other problem is what I said above: freshwater from glaciers becoming salt water (put saltwater on your crops and let me know how they do).

Some countries are producing fresh water from salt water (e.g., Oman), but it is expensive given our current energy platform.

Another problem is that as the heat content of the planet increases evaporation increases........yes, rainfall takes place.........the problem is that climate change is disrupting the system/pattern of rainfall (wet zones turning into dry zones; dry zones turning into wet zones).

Snowfall patterns are also changing.

Agricultural areas that are productive now because of a longstanding, predictable weather patterns are undergoing change.

Nobody knows for certain (with 100% certainty) what will happen to our food production system due to climate change.

But, it is certain that change is taking place at a fast and furious pace.

In effect, we are playing with fire.........seems to me like we are dumping gasoline on the fire and refusing to acknowledge the existence of fire (crazy behavior?).

There are other issues..........when rainfall patterns change (when climate changes) ecosystems change....these changes impact species (organisms that attack wheat, rice, corn, etc), diseases (e.g., diseases related to mosquitoes like dengue fever.........an epidemic in Thailand right now), among other things.

By the way, FOOD IS IMPORTANT.

The current drought is sending us messages: Water is critical..........food is critical.........climate change is real...........do something about the problem before it is too late.

[seri thai]

Rainfall has dropped dramatically in recent years, The Rainy seasons have not been very rainy. And water conservation in Thailand is bad

You mean they have water conservation? Never seen it.

Same with electricity or gasoline.

or conservation.....

[Tejas]

Rainfall has dropped dramatically in recent years, The Rainy seasons have not been very rainy. And water conservation in Thailand is bad

You mean they have water conservation? Never seen it.

Same with electricity or gasoline.

or conservation.....

As stated in an earlier thread, virtually every Thai house in the hinterlands has giant water containment "jars." They capture rain water and use it.......more than I can say for most American households.

For those who would like some scientific info. on this subject from real scientists, go here (but you need to subscribe):

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article....eshwater-crisis

Back to Thailand......the drought is real.

Part of it is due to climate.........part of it is due to agricultural practices and consumption in general..........and a very large part of it has to do with overpopulation (please don't tell me again that Thailand does not have a population problem because its fertility level is down.........thanks.)

A good example is Pattaya-Jomtien. It is experiencing a major drought.......local reservoirs are drying up.

City officials are very concerned about it. Global warming and increased evaporation aside, a major reason for the "drying up" is overpopulation and associated over-consumption.

There are simply too many people confined in a small area. It is an example of poor city planning..........unsustainable development (profits before sanity.........to hel_l with future generations).

No doubt the solution the city officials will come up with will be the same old solution: build more reservoirs (an expensive solution).

No person will dare state that the place is overpopulated and development should be curtailed (no more concrete coffin buildings).

Many of the current water problems could be solved if the size of the human population was much less than it is today.

One more thing about glaciers discussed in an earlier post............glaciers feed many of the worlds most important riverine systems.

These systems are critical for agricultural production. The glaciers are melting. That is not good news. It is not clear how much of the water loss from the melting glaciers will be offset by rainfall..........or if it will be.

Again, we are playing with fire. Water is our most precious resource.........not gold, not diamonds. It is not something to play around with.

[BlackJack]

wow

a self opinionated GURU - calling everyone with a different opinion a troll

well

maybe theres a job for you advising the Thai Government on their drought problem

I am sure they will appreciated your scientific research and American know how.

The interesting thing about the earth is that its locked in an atmosphere and all the water is still here, its just moving around as it has done for billions of years.

Some places get hot and some cold. Witness the recent freeze in Washington DC. Floods around the World. Droughts around the World. Hurricanes. But the total mass of all things is constant although it changes places and form.

Also have you ever noticed that when your ice melts in your black so that the liquid actually goes down. Same in the oceans. The ice melts and the water goes somewhere. Maybe just not on some parts of Thailand.

Maybe a trip to the southern provinces where it rains 8 months of the year will convince you that there is water but its just in another place. But never mind it could change again next year. Look at Central Australia with no water for 12 years and then it started again.

All nothing to do with global warming and as i said its a myth.

To prove a point if you want an instant ice age wait for the big bang coming from Yellow Stone National Park.

Not trolling just informed by looking at the big picture.

[jombom]

All this population growth problem is also a myth. To produce 1 kg of steak, the animal has to consume about 10 kg of food, and consume large quantities of water and oxygen, and exhale large quantities of CO2.

So if the world becomes vegitarian, the population could easily be trebled or quadrupled with existing resources.

So what are we saying --- ''stop the rest of the world procreating, because we want to eat steak and burgers'' or what.

Again way off the topic.

[elkangorito]

Saltwater dominates the planet. Most of the fresh water on the planet is:

1) locked up in glaciers (that are melting)........and the water eventually makes its way to the ocean where it mixes with saltwater.

And 'locked up' in humans too.

Each human body is somewhere between 40% & 60% water. If the average adult human weighs about 75kg, that's between 30 & 45 litres of water in each human body, 'locked up' until it's death.

Since the world population is increasing, the water 'locked up' in human bodies is also increasing.

[tigermonkey]

Saltwater dominates the planet. Most of the fresh water on the planet is:

1) locked up in glaciers (that are melting)........and the water eventually makes its way to the ocean where it mixes with saltwater.

And 'locked up' in humans too.

Each human body is somewhere between 40% & 60% water. If the average adult human weighs about 75kg, that's between 30 & 45 litres of water in each human body, 'locked up' until it's death.

Since the world population is increasing, the water 'locked up' in human bodies is also increasing.

Human fat tissue is only about 10% water --- muscle is almost 30 % water --- so do your part for water conservation.

Do not exercise and add muscle -- be a couch potato and add fat -- you will not use up so much water !

Many parts of the world ( eg USA) are already doing their part, and becoming obese. Join in -- do your part to conserve water !

[Tejas]

Saltwater dominates the planet. Most of the fresh water on the planet is:

1) locked up in glaciers (that are melting)........and the water eventually makes its way to the ocean where it mixes with saltwater.

And 'locked up' in humans too.

Each human body is somewhere between 40% & 60% water. If the average adult human weighs about 75kg, that's between 30 & 45 litres of water in each human body, 'locked up' until it's death.

Since the world population is increasing, the water 'locked up' in human bodies is also increasing.

There are too many trolls here that can't focus on the subject.

Thailand has a severe drought problem and something must be done about it.

I have put forth solutions.............the trolls have put forth nonsense.

There really is no point in responding to nonsense.

[BlackJack]

what u have put up are brain storming ideas

most of which are impossible to achieve

Solutions u have not put up

as referenced here - Now this one has still got me laughing "Or you can develop a new energy system that is inexpensive and does not pollute"

Now back to the trolling

[Robby nz]

Going to take you up on a couple of points here but first why do you call anyone who dosent agree with you a Troll?.

This has all been done before here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Insects-Drou...-T-t364541.html

however as my prime interest in water until recent years has been the extraction of fish and there appears to be some experts here I will ask a couple of questions:

Isnt water a recyclable resource?

It falls as rain then either evapourates up again to once more fall as rain or is used by plants and animals before being released to also rise as evapouration or soaks into the ground to become reusable subteranian water.

In a warmer climate shouldnt there be more evapouration and therefore more rain?

What with supposed melting of ice caps retreat of glaciers (stored water) shouldnt there be more available?

My take on it is that about the same amount of water is falling as rain only in different places because of the El Nilo - La Nineo effect on global weather patterns.

A comment on Global warming ahh sorry climate change now (allows a dollar each way):

Saw an interesting debate about a week back on TV where a Brit, Lord Montague I think, took on a couple of Yanks on the subject. The lord produced several peer reviewed studies that showed that climate change was not caused by man but was natural these were actual in the air and on the ground studies where as most studies that predict climate change are computer models. The Lord challanged the other 2 to produce studies to back their point and they could not.

He also stated that CO2 was not a harmful gas as without it plants could not live and that concentrations 1000 time more than present would not harm the planet.

Someone on the other thread worked out that at the present stated level of warming it would take 384 years (think thats the number) for the temp in TL to rise 1dc.

In NZ the Govt is trying to show how green they are by introducing carbon taxes they tried to introduce a tax on farmers for animal emmissions, Fart Tax would you believe, they got laughted out on that one.

They also pay for the planting of trees but only pine trees it would seem, forestry companies plant the trees get payment then in 25 years cut them down for timber and paper, replant and go back to the trough for another go.

Have a friend who has several acres of native bush he has put into a covenant so it can never be cut down, he gets nothing for this but if he felled the lot and planted pines he would get paid???????????

Saltwater dominates the planet. Most of the fresh water on the planet is:

1) locked up in glaciers (that are melting)........and the water eventually makes its way to the ocean where it mixes with saltwater.The glaciers in NZ have started to advance in the last few years reversing the trend of retreat. A large chunk has recently broken off a glacier in Antartica which it would appear ,according to an article by an OZ sientist shows that the glacier is in fact advancing, no cant provide a link.

2) too deep to access (it is well known that underground aquifers that are accessible are being depleted at a faster rate than they are being replenished...a major and growing problem that will lead to water wars in the future)

The amount of freshwater that is readily accessible is small in comparison to the total amount of freshwater on the planet. Still, it is a huge amount......enough for over 10 billion people.

The "fresh water problem" is, in large part, about the fact that it is unevenly distributed on the planet.......so, it becomes a distribution problem, getting it from where it is in large supply to where it is needed but in small supply.

The other problem is what I said above: freshwater from glaciers becoming salt water (put saltwater on your crops and let me know how they do). Salt water evapourates just like fresh water adding to the rain, it does not come down as salt rain

Some countries are producing fresh water from salt water (e.g., Oman), but it is expensive given our current energy platform. I believe Israil is quite sucessful with this, then there are those who make long trips in small boats who use solar desalinators, not expensive at all

Another problem is that as the heat content of the planet increases evaporation increases........yes, rainfall takes place.........the problem is that climate change is disrupting the system/pattern of rainfall (wet zones turning into dry zones; dry zones turning into wet zones).

Snowfall patterns are also changing.

Agricultural areas that are productive now because of a longstanding, predictable weather patterns are undergoing change.

Nobody knows for certain (with 100% certainty) what will happen to our food production system due to climate change.

But, it is certain that change is taking place at a fast and furious pace. Look at the link to the previous topic it tells how fast warming pn Thailand has taken place between 1950 and 2000 then tell me how fast and furious warming is

In effect, we are playing with fire.........seems to me like we are dumping gasoline on the fire and refusing to acknowledge the existence of fire (crazy behavior?).

There are other issues..........when rainfall patterns change (when climate changes) ecosystems change....these changes impact species (organisms that attack wheat, rice, corn, etc), diseases (e.g., diseases related to mosquitoes like dengue fever.........an epidemic in Thailand right now), among other things.

By the way, FOOD IS IMPORTANT.

The current drought is sending us messages: Water is critical..........food is critical.........climate change is real Climate change has always taken place anyone who knows there have been more than one ice age can tell you that there must be a warming period in between. There are fossel trees in Antartica how warm did it have to get till they grew there? and with no man made help...........do something about the problem before it is too late.

When I see the money thats being made out of climate change (Al Gore the first global warming billionare etc) it will take a lot more science to convince me.

[elkangorito]

Oh well. It appears that humans are insignificant with regard to the amount of water that a human body can hold.

Continue on. The key to all of these water/world problems is the population...the heat that each individual produces, the water that each individual holds until death & the heat created by what the individual buys/uses.

How much of the world was airconditioned 20 years ago? How much of it is airconditioned now? Airconditioning produces heat along with all the associated manufacturing processes. Cooling towers produce heat & use water. This is the tip of the iceberg.

To save water & to save the world from a long, slow & painful death, the population must be reduced.

[zydeco]

One main problem: too many people--everywhere. Back in the 1960s, Zero Population Growth gained widespread acceptance in the West. People acted accordingly, in America and throughout Europe, people reduced family sizes. Alas, governments said they don't care what people want, they want an everlasting Ponzi scheme to keep consumerism (and later Reaganomics) generating profits as more (poorer but larger amounts of) people buy more cola, candy bars, cheap houses, etc. So those same governments decided to let mexicans and latins pour into the U.S., Arabs and Africans to pour into Europe. Keep the scheme going at all costs. Naturally, the home countries of the immigrants had their population pressure relieved--along with the motivation to control their populations and carry out structural and institutional reforms that would make their own countries' resources and environments more sustainable. Witness A: Mexico, which is now more overcrowded, corrupt, polluted, and dangerous than ever.

Thailand and Southeast Asia face joining the same boat--without a relief valve for population export. Droughts can be dealt with. Crop failures can be overcome. Heat waves are survivable. But only with a stable and, in this day and age, decreasing population. Thais, Asians, latins, and Africans should get on the same page as the West and reporoduce below replacement levels.

[Tejas]

now its obvious that he or she is not reading any of the posts and just goes of on a rant.

The only thing that is obvious is that you are a Troll who can't respond to the topic or what is being posted using reason.

Posting pseudo-scientific garbage taken from Exxon-Mobile funded (global warming is a myth) websites is not a valid response.

Posting elements of truth (1%) and ignoring the bulk of the scientific information that disagrees with your position (the remaining 99%) is not science.

You remind me of a crooked car dealer. Is that what you do for a living?

No need to answer. This will be my last response to you

[RickBradford]

The closest historical parallel to the AGW agenda is Lysenkoism, which ruined Soviet agriculture for two decades in the mid-20th century. This pseudo-science fitted so well with Marxist political thought that all dissent was crushed ("the debate is settled", usually fatally). Mad policies wedded to the nonsense 'science' led to "absurd agricultural guidelines which were blindly and wholeheartedly adopted by Mao Zedong and then forced upon Chinese peasants. This resulted in widespread crop failure and consequently famine among the countryside and rural populations."

"What went wrong was that the proper procedures for coming to terms with such complex issues were short-circuited by grasping for easy slogans and simplistic solutions and imposing them by administrative fiat." Sound familiar?

The winners in the climate situation will be the countries that have the sense to ignore the desperate doomsayers and do nothing, and the losers will be the bedwetters who dismantle their carbon economies in response to this baseless scare.

I hope that Thailand will be one of the winners, merely doing the prudent things to adapt to whatever the climate decides to do.