American To Be Extradited For Unlawful Flight To Avoid Prosecution

[IanForbes]

For those that apparently have not read any of the news reports in this thread, his 10 year federal sentence was for forging documents, passport fraud, and unlawful flight to avoid prosecution.

The entire issue of his taking his child in violation of the divorce decree will be addressed later and separately in state court.

He did not receive a 10 year sentence for taking his daughter.

.

That is just as I said it was. The so called "Justice system" doesn't care about people. They only care about their OWN power within the system, and they don't like it threatened in any way. They treat something like this worse than they would treat a murder. They will give some thug less time for the crime of manslaughter. Once you understand the risks you can proceed with caution. The guy did a couple of crimes and now he is paying for it.

[lannarebirth]

There is a thread in the Family section about a poor woman in the UK whose husband is in a Thai jail because he "did something stupid" trying to rescue his child from a mother who allegedly threatened his life. I would suspect this situation may not be as severe

This assumption is based on what information?

And please note that the 10 year sentence is not for the kidnapping charge but for forgery and fraud.

The result of the plea bargain and pleading guilty on the lesser charges I assume. If (and I could be wrong) I remember correctly the Federal Sentencing Guidelines on kidnapping state 25 years to life.

Probably, but I think 18 months with 1/3 reduction for good behavior might be more appropriate.

[IanForbes]

And please note that the 10 year sentence is not for the kidnapping charge but for forgery and fraud.

Probably, but I think 18 months with 1/3 reduction for good behavior might be more appropriate.

I would agree that would be an appropriate sentence for such a crime... or group of crimes. When you do time you then have a criminal record that stays with you for life, and it cuts down on many options once you are released. But, like I said, judges and those making laws do NOT like being made fools of. The guy tried to fool them and he is paying for it. He would have been better off going to the Philippines where any official can be bribed. He could have hidden there for years and nobody would have noticed. And besides that, everyone in the Philippines speaks English.

[jackdawson]

10 years in a federal slammer , DEPRIVED of freedom (THE most important thing there is)

hope the 3 mos. in phuket were worth it

[jdinasia]

10 years in a federal slammer , DEPRIVED of freedom (THE most important thing there is)

hope the 3 mos. in phuket were worth it

On June 9, Horton was escorted back to the United States by FBI special agents. Horton was taken into custody in June 2010 in Phuket, Thailand, after violating a custody order more than a year before. He was in federal court in Greenville on Tuesday.

Horton's ex-wife has custody of their daughter and son. He had been allowed visitation with the children

Read more: http://www.wyff4.com/news/27722742/detail.html#ixzz1L63yml2g

May 2009 until June 2010 ---- 13 months.

Not only does he get the 10 years in prison, he is also no longer legally the father. His parental rights have been terminated.

[gregb]

Desperately sad point of view

Why? because I am not applauding the actions of a criminal who lied to a child & took her away from the life & people she knew, breaking the law & messing up not on his own life but his ex wife & kids too? yeah, ok!!

Boo,

I think you have missed the point. Maybe the father was not happy with just visitation. Maybe he wanted custody and didn't get it. OK, that doesn't justify what was done, but this is a terrible, emotionally tragic situation for all involved. Becoming vindictive with your partner for being stupid and committing a criminal act out of desperation is not in the best interests of your child...although I agree it is in the best interests the mother.

Again, there are 2 issues here. The legal issue, in which the man is clearly guilty. And the emotional issue, in which he has inflicted tremendous harm on many people, but I can envision circumstances where he was so emotionally distraught that he wasn't thinking well. *Someone* needs to get primary custody in a divorce. All things being equal, the woman usually wins. That can be incredibly hard for the father, despite the legal realities. I understand that as a woman you can't really relate to that in the same way the male posters can, but you are targeting an insecurity we all face, and it would at least be generous of you to recognize that vulnerability and try to apply some tact.

We all agree the guy did a horrible thing. But the reasons why he did it may be a mitigating factor, or may not. If he truly is a scumbag then sure, throw him in jail. But if he is a loving father who just wanted custody of the kid and couldn't get it legally, so he decided to do something stupid, then putting him in prison for decades is not in anyone's best interest, as long as there are other ways to assure he doesn't do the same thing again. A short prison stint and counselling for example.

Lots of assumptions being made here, but it is a fascinating case study of how, in the absence of information, people interpret the facts to fit their own emotional needs. I include myself in that scenario. I love my children with all my heart. Could I crack if I lost custody of them? I hope not...but maybe. Maybe. And that's a scary thought...

I just can't bring myself to condemn this guy. Condemn what he did, yes. But condemn a man who just wants to love his child and can't figure out the proper, legal way to do it? I just can't do it.

The wife could have been very accommodating in allowing all legally required access. But there are circumstances where the letter of the law is insufficient, and a third party may not be able to get an appropriate perspective. This is an area where the law is often times inadequate, and I think the family courts in Thailand actually do a better job of trying to balance the needs of the child than the West.

My heart goes out to the poor man and to his child. I hope he finds the answers he needs, and I hope the child is not terribly scarred from the experience.

[WarpSpeed]

It really is too bad. I can understand both sides of this problem. Parents will often risk anything for their children. Still, it isn't right to deprive the child of his mother any more than it is right to deprive the child of his father.

This was extremely poor judgement on his part, but I hardly think 10 years in prison is an appropriate punishment. That is simply making the child's life even worse. It is just too bad there isn't a better way, and that parents become so vindictive that they can't see the best interests of the child. Thailand has its share of problems as well, but for all that I think the system of custody rights here is probably more balanced.

Curious what people would think if the same government that is enforcing this violation actually did something very hypocritically similar by preventing a child or 2 to be with their mother by not permitting her to immigrate with them?

[Boo]

gregb, your posts are all based on maybes & speculation. I have tried to base mine on the information that has been reported.

There was no mention of any custody issues. there was no mention of his distress at being away from his children (in fact he only took one & not the other, one has to wonder the motivation/reasoning behind that was, esp if you say, he was so desperate to be with his kids). he took the child, pre-medidated it by forging signatures & getting a passport, arranging a life overseas & then telling a very young vulnerable child that her mother was dead. not really sure what my comments based on the facts reported has to do with my gender.

the guy is wrong, what he did was wrong, he deserves to be locked up and IMO, someone so nasty, vindictive & calculating as to plan & execute what he did can only be a risk to his children's wellbeing in the future. In my experience people like this don't learn from their mistakes, so why should his kids & ex have to live with the fear that he will try something like this, or worse, in the future.

[gregb]

What I would find fascinating is to do a poll, and see how many TV users who are fathers have sympathy for this poor guy, vs. how many who are not fathers in the "hang 'em high" crowd. I bet the Chi-squared would be very nearly one. Psychologists could have a field day with this forum.

Where is Jingthing when you need him?

One thing I have learned in my years is that journalists rarely report the whole story. They report things which sell papers, or which make for good TV news. The ugly details are usually sacrificed on the altar of ratings. A healthy degree of skepticism is always necessary in such emotionally charged cases.

I don't know what the real truth behind this story is, but I hope for the child's sake that this poor man was truly a threat to her. I still think that this is an excellent example of the need for reforms within the child welfare systems in the West.

[jazzbo]

At the bottom of every passport application form including DS-11 you sign a statement under penalty of perjury that you acknowledge that it is a felony to provide false information or make false statements -- the feds seem to not much care for extenuating circumstances when you then deliberately provide such false information.

[Mugg]

Justice, American Style.

The crime he was prosecuted for he plead guilty to. "Forgery to obtain a passport". Does your country have ant such laws? It is not as though he was beaten into a confession, again I assume France has a similar law.

[sbk]

What I would find fascinating is to do a poll, and see how many TV users who are fathers have sympathy for this poor guy, vs. how many who are not fathers in the "hang 'em high" crowd. I bet the Chi-squared would be very nearly one. Psychologists could have a field day with this forum.

Where is Jingthing when you need him?

One thing I have learned in my years is that journalists rarely report the whole story. They report things which sell papers, or which make for good TV news. The ugly details are usually sacrificed on the altar of ratings. A healthy degree of skepticism is always necessary in such emotionally charged cases.

I don't know what the real truth behind this story is, but I hope for the child's sake that this poor man was truly a threat to her. I still think that this is an excellent example of the need for reforms within the child welfare systems in the West.

Actually, I'd be more interested why so many outraged fathers who love and support their kids in this thread aren't outraged by some of the statements in this thread:

[Wallaby]

Really, how can the judge determine that he should get the maximum for this.

If a person commits passport fraud to commit acts of terrorism then surely that would be worse and indeed should be given a maximum sentence.

Maximum sentences are for the worst of that sort of crime. Just a really bad decision to consider this the worst offence that there could possibly be.

[Mugg]

Really, how can the judge determine that he should get the maximum for this.

If a person commits passport fraud to commit acts of terrorism then surely that would be worse and indeed should be given a maximum sentence.

Maximum sentences are for the worst of that sort of crime. Just a really bad decision to consider this the worst offence that there could possibly be.

Fraud and Terrorism are not quite the same thing, not sure how you came to this conclusion...Passport fraud for terrorism is 25 years.

Passport and visa fraud are federal felonies. Penalties are:

� 10 years (for a first offense if not tied to terrorism or drug trafficking)

� 15 years for fraud with other criminal links

� 20 years for fraud related to drug trafficking

� 25 years for fraud related to international terrorism

What is passport fraud ?

� Substituting photos, most commonly occurring overseas and with older passports

� Altering support documents, such as birth certificates

� Assuming the identity of a deceased person

� Circumventing the two-parent signature rule for minors

It is not a minimum/maximum type of offense. It is a Price Tag.. By no means do I mean imply that the facts should interfere with this thread.

Edited May 2, 2011 by Mugg

[flying]

It does not mean that I cannot also understand that there may have been a desperation that drove the father to do what he did.

this guy only seemed to be desperate enough to take one of his kids & leave the other behind with the mother who many are speculating so much against. hmmm

(n.b am only quoting flying's post post above to base my post on & not as an attack on his posting)

The thought also crossed my mind Boo

Without the details it is something we will not know. I did wonder about the age of the boy too.

I read that the girl was 3 years old but it did not state the age of the boy.

If the boy was younger then I would imagine there was no way he could get the boy for a Disney trip.

If he was older I cannot imagine he would not also want to go to Disney

Again I am just guessing as facts are not available.

[Buchholz]

There is a thread in the Family section about a poor woman in the UK whose husband is in a Thai jail because he "did something stupid" trying to rescue his child from a mother who allegedly threatened his life. I would suspect this situation may not be as severe

This assumption is based on what information?

And please note that the 10 year sentence is not for the kidnapping charge but for forgery and fraud.

The result of the plea bargain and pleading guilty on the lesser charges I assume. If (and I could be wrong) I remember correctly the Federal Sentencing Guidelines on kidnapping state 25 years to life.

Probably, but I think 18 months with 1/3 reduction for good behavior might be more appropriate.

That's not an option under federal sentencing guidelines. AFAIK, with federal convictions, there is no "time off for good behavior" available

.

[Kilgore Trout]

Wow, I will sleep much better tonight knowing this evil man is going to spend ten years in prison for annoying his wife.

So you equate kidnapping, taking a mother's child out of the country where it had no contact with his/her mother since 2009 as "annoying" her.

You are a very big pile of the stuff I avoid stepping into on the sidewalk

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Actually, I'd be more interested why so many outraged fathers who love and support their kids in this thread aren't outraged by some of the statements in this thread:

http://www.thaivisa....money-for-kids/

Out of curiosity, why is that? It's in no way related to this topic? Secondly, I don't read all topics in this forum. Hadn't seen it, but now that you pointed me to it I added a reply, which I think is the most sensible one to date in that particular topic.

Wait.. I guess not eveyrone gets why these topics are different.

So to state the bleeding obvious:

The linked topic is about a father who doesn't seem to care much about his kids living with his ex wife. He doesn't seem very smart, doesn't seem to care a whole lot about his kid and cares more about if he should spend 20K or 10K or whatever else he can get away with. I don't like him form what I've seen, but he has broken no laws.

THIS topic is about a father who was desperate enough to commit passport fraud so his he could be with his daughter. He was also nasty enough to lie to his daughter that his mum died. That's bad, though all agree that this is not what's he's been punished for so far. There's not enough information to say just about anything else on this case, though this isn't stopping anyone from posting anyway including Yours Truly. We don't know about his motives, we don't know what his ex wife is like. We do know that one forum member who knows him personally says he's been a great father and fine person. We also know he's going behind bars for at least 10 years and will not see his daughter again. I think that's about it. So in summary: NOT SAME. Not even similar.

Edited May 2, 2011 by WinnieTheKhwai

[jdinasia]

We also know that the former father from this thread had access enough to his daughter to take her on an unsupervised trip to Disney, and that he only stole one of his two children ... and finally, that he pled guilty to the charges.

[Buchholz]

Mom Of Child Taken To Thailand Talks

Cindy Horton Shares Story OF Daughter's Abduction

A mother, whose child was taken to Thailand for more than a year, is talking exclusively with WYFF News 4 about her experience. Cindy Horton says during the months her daughter Zoie spent in Thailand, the child’s father, who had abducted her, told Zoie her mother was dead. Zoie was three years old in May 2009, when she was taken to Phuket, Thailand by Horton’s ex-husband, 38-year-old Samuel Lee Horton.

When she returned in June 2008, the child appeared bewildered upon seeing her mother. "She pretty much screamed and ran away ...She was terrified because she didn't know what to think," Horton told WYFF. "She was three when she was taken. She was four when they brought her back. She was told I was dead and there I was sitting in front of her."

Samuel Horton pleaded guilty to falsifying a document to get a passport for Zoie. He was sentenced last week to the maximum possible sentence of 10 years for passport fraud, followed by three years of supervised release. Horton said she first learned that her child might be in Thailand through the social networking site MySpace. She said a friend checked out the MySpace page of the woman Sam Horton had recently married, which indicated the couple and Zoie were in Bangkok. Horton said additional research revealed that a passport had been issued for her daughter. When Zoie was taken, Cindy Horton had custody of her and the couple’s son. Samuel Horton had been allowed visitation with the children.

Read more:

http://www.wyff4.com/news/27761897/detail.html#ixzz1LSOu8kX4

WYFF Television News - May 3, 2011