Drugs In The Villages On The Rise Again

[waza]

Strangely enough marijuana, coca leaves and a multitude of other natural drugs were regularly uses by the indigenous populations for thousands of years without much negative effects on their societies. However, since the USA declared probition of drugs they seem to be tearing societies apart. Go figure. Could it be that if a pharmacetical company cant patent it its illegal

Edited November 24, 2010 by waza

[mickylonster]

Interesting that extra-judicial killings on a wide scale apparently have worked.

Not something I could ever get behind though. Another solution that works needs to be found.

Lobotomies work for me. No killings, no more drug sales

I would rather have a full bottle in front of me, than a full frontal lobotomy !

[Ulysses G.]

Strangely enough marijuana, coca leaves and a multitude of other natural drugs were regularly uses by the indigenous populations for thousands of years without much negative effects on their societies. However, since the USA declared probition of drugs they seem to be tearing societies apart. Go figure. Could it be that if a pharmacetical company cant patent it its illegal

You mean like opiium? They seem to feel differently about "natural drugs" in China.

[harrry]

Strangely enough marijuana, coca leaves and a multitude of other natural drugs were regularly uses by the indigenous populations for thousands of years without much negative effects on their societies. However, since the USA declared probition of drugs they seem to be tearing societies apart. Go figure. Could it be that if a pharmacetical company cant patent it its illegal

You mean like opiium? They seem to feel differently about "natural drugs" in China.

Remember the Brits had a war with China when China didn't want to buy their opium any more.

[mccw]

Legalise

[No1]

Every hour 3 dead in Thailand on alcohol, horrible if you look behind...

Strangely enough marijuana, coca leaves and a multitude of other natural drugs were regularly uses by the indigenous populations for thousands of years without much negative effects on their societies. However, since the USA declared probition of drugs they seem to be tearing societies apart. Go figure.

There is a lot of wisdom on this forum. (I am amazed after reading posts of senior citizens searching for them university gurls. It really seems we have a wide mixture of people with all kinds of horizonts and backgrounds.)

Legalize.

Edited November 24, 2010 by No1

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Strangely enough marijuana, coca leaves and a multitude of other natural drugs were regularly uses by the indigenous populations for thousands of years without much negative effects on their societies. However, since the USA declared probition of drugs they seem to be tearing societies apart. Go figure. Could it be that if a pharmacetical company cant patent it its illegal

Right, a couple leaves to chew on or make tea. Then once you get to industrial processing into cocaine, meth and other substances you can't tell me that that's still harmless and should be as free and cheap as a pack of gum?

Pharmaceuticals that are considered dangerous need to be obtained on prescription only; why is everyone advocating legalizing meth?

[bifftastic]

Some interesting points here, thanks everyone

There are a number of reasons why youngsters take drugs.

I took them because they were fun and made me feel great. I don't take them any more and when I did, I was aware of what I used to call 'heavy' stuff like heroin was definitely to be avoided. Crack wasn't around then. I've seen the negative effects of all kinds of drugs first hand. Meth I'm not so familiar with but I've seen a few young lads in Thailand who have that "fuc_ked up on something serious" look about them, it's not good, nor is it easy to get to the root causes or solutions. I guess if it was it would have been done already.

Certainly part of any increase in anything is the availability. Seeing as this is in the CM forum, is it possible that there is a renewed supply due to the problems in Myanmar? I read somewhere that there are more refugees heading into Thailand. I'm not suggesting that these poor folks running for their lives are smuggling drugs but where there are refugees, shortly behind them are, usually, bad guys with guns.

I heard that some of the militia (not sure what they like to be called) in Myanmar fund their resistance/insurgency/war (whatever you like to call it) with drug trading. Maybe the north of Thailand is being flooded with meth from across the border?

Thoughts?

[StevieH]

Many people go through silly phases in life. When my children hit puberty and inevitably go through a stupid phase, I'd prefer it if crack cocaine wasn't available at 7-Eleven for the price of a can of Pepsi. Call me silly.

Right, a couple leaves to chew on or make tea. Then once you get to industrial processing into cocaine, meth and other substances you can't tell me that that's still harmless and should be as free and cheap as a pack of gum?

where do people get this notion from that legalising narcotics means that they will be sold in mainstream stores for a few baht? legalisation of drugs means regulation of an industry, control of supply outlets (same as booze, and out of the hands of organised criminals), price-fixing, user monitoring and taxation. there have been numerous studies which have shown that drug use would actually decrease under organised, legalised systems and that the impact on crime rates would be simply enormous. yet people are still terrified of the thought of controlling the supply of them.

people take drugs anyway. they will find a way to source them, illegally, if they want to. prohibition has not worked, just as it did not in the USA with alcohol. what are people so afraid of?

[WinnieTheKhwai]

where do people get this notion from that legalising narcotics means that they will be sold in mainstream stores for a few baht?

Speaking for myself only, I got it from IanForbes' post #18, included below for reference.

The simple solution would be to legalize all drugs and make them almost free. That would take away the profits from pushers. Only the stupid would take drugs and eventually kill themselves. That would solve two problems... less stupid people and no pushers.

[H2oDunc]

There has been a so called " war on drugs " going on for around the last 50 years. It has been an out and out utter, abject failure yet people blindly keep calling for even harsher punishments. The only people that thinks this type of policy works are those with their heads buried in the sand.

Even when Thaksin was running round shooting the dealers without trial it didn't stop the trade. Look at Mexico. Over 30,000 people have died in the war on drugs. 30,000 and it has put a dint in the trade. It wont!

There is too much money in drugs that are illegal. You would think that they would have learnt something from the prohibition time period but they haven't.

When Governments can't keep drugs out of a secure environment like prison just how do they believe they can keep them off the streets ?

The only way to prevent drug use is proper education. Legalising and controlling them takes away the criminal element away immediately and the money raised through taxation can be used for rehab and education.

One of the problems Governments have though is they have told so many lies about the true effects of drugs they now would have to admit to this. Back in the UK drug use is used as an excuse. Go to any court in the land and sit and listen. Time after time you will hear lawyers telling the judge or the jury that the only reason their client committed the crime in question was because they were drunk or under the influence of whatever drug. This is accepted and the person is given a lesser sentence for it. That's the trouble you have.

The vast majority of people that take drugs cause no harm to any others. They work, pay taxes have families etc. The fact they take drugs recreationally isn't a problem for anybody else. The tiny minority that take drugs and commit crime whilst under the influence are the problem. Listen to the media and government propaganda and you will think that everybody that takes drugs goes out mugging old ladies or robbing houses. They don't! Make people responsible for their actions once more. If you commit a crime whilst under the influence of either drink or drugs then you should face a penalty twice as much as for committing the same crime whilst clean. Stop accepting the excuse of " it was the drugs that made me do it " crap. 90 odd % people can go out, have a drink and cause no trouble. It is only the minority that go out, get drunk and cause trouble. Deal with the person and not the alcohol. The same with drugs. People who commit crime to fund their habit then deal with them rather than blame the drug.

And as said educate the young as to the dangers of the different drugs.

Just my 2 satangs worth

[StevieH]

where do people get this notion from that legalising narcotics means that they will be sold in mainstream stores for a few baht?

Speaking for myself only, I got it from IanForbes' post #18, included below for reference.

The simple solution would be to legalize all drugs and make them almost free. That would take away the profits from pushers. Only the stupid would take drugs and eventually kill themselves. That would solve two problems... less stupid people and no pushers.

fair enough - ian forbes is wrong though. way off in fact. it isn't just 'stupid' people who take drugs. history is replete with hugely intelligent, artistic and high achieving people who all enjoyed a drug dabble now and then.

there would be simply no percentage in making them cheap or practically free. what's the point of regulating, controlling and taxing something otherwise?

[jayjay0]

There has been a so called " war on drugs " going on for around the last 50 years. It has been an out and out utter, abject failure yet people blindly keep calling for even harsher punishments. The only people that thinks this type of policy works are those with their heads buried in the sand.

Even when Thaksin was running round shooting the dealers without trial it didn't stop the trade. Look at Mexico. Over 30,000 people have died in the war on drugs. 30,000 and it has put a dint in the trade. It wont!

There is too much money in drugs that are illegal. You would think that they would have learnt something from the prohibition time period but they haven't.

When Governments can't keep drugs out of a secure environment like prison just how do they believe they can keep them off the streets ?

The only way to prevent drug use is proper education. Legalising and controlling them takes away the criminal element away immediately and the money raised through taxation can be used for rehab and education.

One of the problems Governments have though is they have told so many lies about the true effects of drugs they now would have to admit to this. Back in the UK drug use is used as an excuse. Go to any court in the land and sit and listen. Time after time you will hear lawyers telling the judge or the jury that the only reason their client committed the crime in question was because they were drunk or under the influence of whatever drug. This is accepted and the person is given a lesser sentence for it. That's the trouble you have.

The vast majority of people that take drugs cause no harm to any others. They work, pay taxes have families etc. The fact they take drugs recreationally isn't a problem for anybody else. The tiny minority that take drugs and commit crime whilst under the influence are the problem. Listen to the media and government propaganda and you will think that everybody that takes drugs goes out mugging old ladies or robbing houses. They don't! Make people responsible for their actions once more. If you commit a crime whilst under the influence of either drink or drugs then you should face a penalty twice as much as for committing the same crime whilst clean. Stop accepting the excuse of " it was the drugs that made me do it " crap. 90 odd % people can go out, have a drink and cause no trouble. It is only the minority that go out, get drunk and cause trouble. Deal with the person and not the alcohol. The same with drugs. People who commit crime to fund their habit then deal with them rather than blame the drug.

And as said educate the young as to the dangers of the different drugs.

Just my 2 satangs worth

And a good 2 satangs it is.

The only thing I would comment on is the statement "proper education". That keeps coming up and will for ever, the problem being that a lot of the kids today are not stupid. It is there way of resisting authority.

In my version of "proper education" kids would learn good moral values from the moment they are born. Not only would this system go a long way to stopping the drug problem but it would make a vast improvement in many other fields. JMO

But lets face it society dosen't really want to stop it that is why they keep on trying the same old failing systems. If my method is put in to action we can see a vast difference in 20 years. If not in 20 years it will be worse. If we had done it 20 years ago we would not be having this conversation now. Could be as much as 30 years but it would work where as what we have done and are continuing to do has not and will not work.

Edited November 25, 2010 by jayjay0

[CheGuava]

I get the feeling that some of you may not have been around during Thaksin's drug war. The implementation was brutal and horrific, however it did actually work very, VERY well. What happened was that the price of meth increased enormously, to the point where not every truck driver or bar girl could easily afford a bag full of the stuff. Did it completely eradicate drugs: of course not. Was it highly effective: absolutely; that's why people say they want it back.

The difference was clearly noticable, at least to me. Prior to the drugs war, bar girls for starters were super slim, and you didn't actually need to feed them because they were never hungry and would stay awake all night. That was the positive side. The negative side were of course the physical and mental effects. Then when Thaksin's war on drugs kicked in there were some very noticeable changes.

I think the war on drugs hurt nightlife and our enjoyment of it, as did several other Thaksin policies from which 'Sanuk' in Thailand still hasn't recovered. They were however very successful so I can understand people when they say they want tough action.

Edited November 25, 2010 by CheGuava

[Mickeem]

Prior to the drugs war, bar girls for starters were super slim,

Aah...Super Slim Bargirls those were the days..

[mark45y]

Interesting that extra-judicial killings on a wide scale apparently have worked.

Not something I could ever get behind though. Another solution that works needs to be found.

Well trained non corrupt police would go a long way.

An education system that actually thought some thing of value in the 21st century would help as well.

Beg to differ.

Kids are not taking drugs because they are stupid.

For the most part it is peer pressure. Also what do they see at home. To them it is all escapism. There parents do it with alcohol and they see no difference. As long as Alcohol is presented as a OK thing the problem will continue. What is needed is the teaching of a better moral value before they ever get to school. JMO

Is there a country where this approach is working?

[CheGuava]

I see alcohol and tobacco being mentioned a lot. So given that these drugs are legal, the actual request seems to be to add other drugs to the set of legal drugs. Legal drugs currently also include prescription anti-depressants.

So we already have legal drugs, but some people want to add to this set. Question: Is there a limit to which drugs should be added? Should meth be added to the legal set? Should absolutley everything be added? Or all you all happy with just a couple, say cannabis, heroine, cocaine?

[Beetlejuice]

All this drug abuse, sex and out of control teens in the villages.

WHERE PLEASE? I feel I`m missing out on something here.

[mark45y]

I see alcohol and tobacco being mentioned a lot. So given that these drugs are legal, the actual request seems to be to add other drugs to the set of legal drugs. Legal drugs currently also include prescription anti-depressants.

So we already have legal drugs, but some people want to add to this set. Question: Is there a limit to which drugs should be added? Should meth be added to the legal set? Should absolutley everything be added? Or all you all happy with just a couple, say cannabis, heroine, cocaine?

Until a few years ago (relatively speaking) opium used to be legal in Thailand. Don't forget opium.

[rebo]

Thaksin's war had little effect ...

...

There has never been more than a very temporary shortage of any drugs in Thailand as a result of law enforcement actions (legal or otherwise).

This is from my point of experience simply not true: During about six, seven years after the "war on drugs" there was definitely a general shortage of any kinds of illegal drugs. Of course there was still a certain availability but for exorbitant prices the average youngster could not raise.

You may speak with normal average village people, farmers, workers, grandparents; I bet they will tell you that during these years the problems by use of illegal drug went down to almost zero.

[jayjay0]

An education system that actually thought some thing of value in the 21st century would help as well.

Beg to differ.

Kids are not taking drugs because they are stupid.

For the most part it is peer pressure. Also what do they see at home. To them it is all escapism. There parents do it with alcohol and they see no difference. As long as Alcohol is presented as a OK thing the problem will continue. What is needed is the teaching of a better moral value before they ever get to school. JMO

Is there a country where this approach is working?

To the best of my knowledge no country is even trying it. They all seem to be hanging on to the same ideas that have not worked. The main problem as I see it is they have to be able to admit they are failing and to truly solve the problem it will take years. This idea of education when you look at it what does it entail. Maximum eight hours. Result you get knowledgeable users. It must come from inside one's own self only then will outside help be of avail.

Education would work with a certain amount of people. How ever In my opinion these are not the ones who become regular abusers, addicts if you wish. The ones who it will become a problem for need more.

As I have said it is just my opinion.

Edited November 25, 2010 by jayjay0

[scorecard]

Thaksin's war had little effect ...

...

There has never been more than a very temporary shortage of any drugs in Thailand as a result of law enforcement actions (legal or otherwise).

This is from my point of experience simply not true: During about six, seven years after the "war on drugs" there was definitely a general shortage of any kinds of illegal drugs. Of course there was still a certain availability but for exorbitant prices the average youngster could not raise.

You may speak with normal average village people, farmers, workers, grandparents; I bet they will tell you that during these years the problems by use of illegal drug went down to almost zero.

1. Not one drug kingpin: finaciers, major manufacturer, major raw materials suppliers, major distributor, was apprehended during thakins war on drugs. and it's well known that scaly unscrupulous no morals greedy politicians have been drug kingpins for many years. These people fear nobody, do you really think they would lie low for 6 or 7 years?

2. "Usage of drugs went down to almost zero for 6 or 7 years". Simply not true!

Edited November 25, 2010 by scorecard

[orang37]

... snip ... To the best of my knowledge no country is even trying it. ... snip ...

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun JayJay0,

Suggest you take a look at ... a variety of opinions on ... what Portugal has done: Drug Legalization in Portugal

And see what you think.

best, ~o:37;

[jayjay0]

... snip ... To the best of my knowledge no country is even trying it. ... snip ...

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun JayJay0,

Suggest you take a look at ... a variety of opinions on ... what Portugal has done: Drug Legalization in Portugal

And see what you think.

best, ~o:37;

Looks good to me. Finaly a country willing to try some thing new.

However they still have a problem with drug use. About half the users now that is excelent. The crime rate is way down but the violent crime rate is up. People no longer use the drug as a means to hide.

It will be interesting to see if they fully legalize it. As it is it is legal to use drugs. But not to sell them. Go whole hog make them available through Government outlets make them cheaper than what they are paying for them on the street and take the profit and put it back in to treatment.

Be interesting to see what this will evolve into. Defiantly a lot of potential.

I still maintain that to teach them good values before they even get to school will go along way towards solving the problem as well as many other social problems.

[mark45y]

In the 1930's there were thousands of government licensed opium dens in Thailand. It was normal to smoke opium after dinner in hi so households. The sale and distribution was a government controlled business. The only reason Thailand made opium illegal was international pressure.

Holland just closed 8 major prisons because of a lack of crime.

Edited November 26, 2010 by mark45y

[StevieH]

Holland just closed 8 major prisons because of a lack of crime.

really? that's interesting.