Thai Talk: Rich-Poor Gap - Lots Of Ideas But Where Is The Political Will?

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THAI TALK

Rich-poor gap: lots of ideas but where's the political will?

By Suthichai Yoon

The Nation

A national reconciliation plan without a comprehensive programme to reduce the rich-poor divide won't be a real plan.

But then a master plan that relies on politicians to reduce poverty and bridge the rural-urban gulf will surely be just a stopgap measure that won't get us far.

Thaksin Shinawara's populist platform might have won him popularity and votes. But like all populist politicians, he was more interested in getting elected the next time around than seriously tackling the poverty issue.

Abhisit Vejjajiva has tried to propose his "welfare state" concept to counter the populist model. But he has yet to come up with a concrete formula to convince the rest of the country that it's not just an election gimmick to oppose the populist lure for voters in the Northeast.

It's not clear how the poverty issue will be handled under the national reconciliation plan and/or the "Reform Thailand Committee".

The Kanit na Nakhon panel will form the Truth Commission to dig into the circumstances surrounding the violence that brought about 89 deaths and nearly 2,000 injuries. Kanit, a respected former attorney-general, has reacted to criticism of being biased by offering to meet red-shirt leaders to discuss the best way to launch the reconciliation process.

The constitutional amendment part will be spearheaded by a 19-member academic team headed by NIDA president Sombat Thamrongthanyawong. This team will basically serve as the sounding board for any political reform that is considered necessary by all parties concerned - if "all parties" can really contribute to the process, that is.

Then, there is media reform, which will come under another committee to be headed by Yubol Bemjarongkij, dean of Chulalongkorn University's Mass Communications Department. It's not clear what is expected of this group of academics, who have admitted that it's a tall order to propose a new set of rules and regulations under the current media's ever-changing, highly-politicised and technologically-sensitive landscape.

None of these groups, considered part of the "Reform Thailand" and "National Reconciliation" umbrella is likely to take up the hottest issue raised during the red-shirt protest: Rich-poor disparity.

Perhaps, the big "Reform Thailand" committee to be co-chaired by former premier Anand Panyarachun and "senior citizen" Dr Prawase Wasi, will take up this most "popular" of all the issues.

If they really want to go all the way, it's inevitable that this supposedly most powerful grouping will have to tackle the most vocal complaint of all during the red-shirt protest: The "prai-ammart" (serf versus elite) divide.

And if the panel doesn't want to be accused of deliberately overlooking the grievances aired during the red-shirt protest, the question of "Marxist" ideology proposed by at least one wing of the red-shirt strategists should also be addressed.

Of course, there are no lack of studies, research papers and proposals, as well as counter-proposals, from this country's intellectuals, politicians, NGOs, and every imaginable government agency on how we can close the gap between the filthy rich and the dirt poor in this country. All political parties, especially the ruling Democrats (headed by Abhisit) and opposition Pheu Thai (owned by Thaksin), have their own policy statements on how to make life better for the underprivileged and the downtrodden.

I'm not sure how the panels to work out new solutions can dig up anything new to propose, except to dust off the piles of proposals for a new series of "public hearings" so that a new set of papers can be written to fulfil the new mission.

All these in-depth, comprehensive and exhaustive studies on how to erase poverty and close the rich-poor, urban-rural gap are, in fact, some of the best in the world. Thai academics, researchers and technocrats are among the most respected internationally in this field. If the new "super committees" take the time to read the available documents on poverty eradication attentively enough, they will find one common conclusion: It's not a shortage of knowledge or statistics. It's not an absence of "vision" that has put Thailand in this precarious position. It's the lack of political will among Thai political leaders that has been the biggest obstacle.

Let's make sure that "poverty eradication" isn't just a buzzword for politicians and rabble-rousers to use to exploit the poor for their own purposes.

-- The Nation 2010-06-17

[cshort64]

Closing the gap on the rich poor divide here in Thailand, and in many other countries, is not as popular as one might suspect with politicians for one reason, votes. In my humble opinion a politician that is from a district that is predominately made up of poor and uneducated voters has an easier time in relating to his district because he is seen as the leader, an educated man or women, that can help us. But when the voters can't read well enough to learn what there elected leader is doing for them, or understand the many complex situations a politician finds himself/herself in, then how can they make an educated decision on whether this person is representing their interests in a positive manner and has the well being of their district at heart. There is a very large percentage of the rural farming and small town poor and lower middle class that do not have a solid enough educational background to make educated decisions about their elected officials and to understand the difference between candidates. Again, in my opinion, education is the key to success here, there must be a long term, sustainable educational push to raise the level of knowledge across the country. Unfortunately the current voting generations may not have the means to make a big difference now, but in 20 years we need to be farther along, we need to have young people educated to a level that independant thought is respected, that decisions are based on facts and information and less on what some tells you. The ability to think for ones self is a skill that must be cultivated.

I am a guest in this wonderful country and I do not wish to offend Thai citizens that I know 'how' their country should run and be governed, I offer only an opinion, not everything about the American or UK political systems are perfect, far from it, and many countries are struggling with these same problems. But if we can make one comittment to the future and stick with it, I would like to suggest - EDUCATION!.

All the best

C

[Rucharee]

Tell me a non communist country that have no rich poor gap.

[givenall]

Tell me a non communist country that have no rich poor gap.

The Notion that government will help to close the cap is an extreme nonsense. People have to help themselves. It would take a while but is possible.

What have seen people do these in other place is by two things.

Education to make yourself more valuable

Electing people to politics that are not corrupt (hard to find in Thailand). If people elect politicians by choosing the ones give them more money, then the corruption will continue. Don’t vote for money vote for good and honest people

Well this is Thailand after all not sure will happen in my life time

[Ricardo]

Tell me a non communist country that have no rich poor gap.

Or indeed a communist country, where the party-leaders & their families aren't an economic elite, more-equal than the rest !

A limited social security-net, as proposed by the current government, does however need to be funded properly. This is where TRT's 30-Baht-healthcare fell-apart. The land-tax idea needs to be implemented, and other sources of income found, while also improving value-for-money in government-spending, by reducing corruption.

It would also be good to see more chance for the poor to work together, to improve their 'lot' and reduce opportunity for rapacious middle-men to hold them back, a Thai co-operative movement might be a step in the right direction ! I'm not holding my breath.

[junglist]

The people of wealth and power must give the gift of hope to the poor. They must offer a better life for them and their children an escape from poverty. If this is not offered then history shows that the poor masses will rise and take it. Education is the first step.

[Robby nz]

There is and always will be a rich-poor gap in every country.

There must be, for those with money will provide the jobs and industry to advance a country.

If there was to be no better rewards for highter qualifications or hard work what would be the point?

Its mainly up to the individual to drag themselves up, hel_l I started with nothing and have now worked my way up to relative poverty.

Although Govt policy and incentive can certainly help, what that should be I dont know.

Certinly not handouts as that only increases dependency and is an incentive not to work, I know people who have been on Govt benefits all their lives back in NZ and even one family who boasted that 12 of their family were on benefits.

However saying all of that; corruption and getting rich be dragging others down is something that needs to be stopped or greatly curtailed in this country.

[ChaiRorn]

It has to all start with education, as has been said. The better jobs will follow, as will much else. The whole system and curriculum needs a complete overhaul, but first it needs the will....

[Rucharee]

Tell me a non communist country that have no rich poor gap.

The Notion that government will help to close the cap is an extreme nonsense. People have to help themselves. It would take a while but is possible.

What have seen people do these in other place is by two things.

Education to make yourself more valuable

Electing people to politics that are not corrupt (hard to find in Thailand). If people elect politicians by choosing the ones give them more money, then the corruption will continue. Don't vote for money vote for good and honest people

Well this is Thailand after all not sure will happen in my life time

Don’t vote for money.

Don't vote for good and honest people.

Vote for an army back government to ensure peace and security.

[givenall]

Tell me a non communist country that have no rich poor gap.

The Notion that government will help to close the cap is an extreme nonsense. People have to help themselves. It would take a while but is possible.

What have seen people do these in other place is by two things.

Education to make yourself more valuable

Electing people to politics that are not corrupt (hard to find in Thailand). If people elect politicians by choosing the ones give them more money, then the corruption will continue. Don't vote for money vote for good and honest people

Well this is Thailand after all not sure will happen in my life time

Don't vote for money.

Don't vote for good and honest people.

Vote for an army back government to ensure peace and security.

Whether you vote for them or not they are in charge, at least for now

[invex]

In my humble opinion two things have to be done immediately:

- Educate

- Tackle all corruption whether it is the Government, Customs, Police, Military, and Schools etc…. I mean ALL corruption.

Automatically, the gap between the poor-rich levels will narrow.

However, this will never be done in Thailand as it needs a lot of brave MP’s and goodwill from everybody. In the Thai climate of last decennial this will be sheer impossible to achieve.

[tgw]

Closing the rich-poor gap is not desirable.

Providing good living conditions for everyone and bulding an "almost equal chances" system is.

- good education for everyone, including university

- affordable healthcare for the poor

- do a social housing program

- clamp down on corruption and enforce the rules

[slapout]

Tell me a non communist country that have no rich poor gap.

Let me make this plan, simple and easy to answer. Name one country in the world that has no rich poor gap.

[gcrepos]

In my humble opinion two things have to be done immediately:

- Educate

- Tackle all corruption whether it is the Government, Customs, Police, Military, and Schools etc…. I mean ALL corruption.

Automatically, the gap between the poor-rich levels will narrow.

However, this will never be done in Thailand as it needs a lot of brave MP’s and goodwill from everybody. In the Thai climate of last decennial this will be sheer impossible to achieve.

Bravery has little to do with politics, Democracy Is used as a tool to satisfy the poor

the vote of normal people has little to with the real dynamics of running any country.

the real power is in the hands of the few this is the same for most countries

all votes are purchased in one way or another take the costs of an election in any country

parties are fund raising vast amounts of money WHY to buy votes its a simple model

often the most money Wins

when MP's choose to vote on their own they will lose there backing (power & money ) if they choose against there backers

this is corruption pure & simple

Western Democracy has hidden most of this style of corruption to the masses

the thai system is only exposed more because the gulf between the rich & poor is greater

we sit & believe the speed cameras are to protect us .......???? haha

we believe drink drive laws are set to protect us .....??? haha

we believe traffic parking violations are to keep the streets clear for emergencies.......??? haha

the lists are endless they are all revenue generators with some uses the concepts were good to start

Our western police forces are not corrupt ......???? haha

get real your just looking through the wrong glasses

YOU add Man & Money together you will find corruption pure & simple its only a matter of what people can live with

I don't care where you come from Corruption is there, if you look hard enough..... Often its for the restricted few

You will never eradicate corruption in any society but you will find an acceptable level

But I agree the gap will reduce between the rich & poor, if you force corruption underground , the same way we have in the west

When the masses reject what is happening its called a civil riot (peaceful or not )

I quite like the french system of politics, the threat that everyone can lose there heads seems to work maybe thai's will adopt this later lol

[slapout]

I was brought thinking an education was a way out of poverty. It worked for me and most of my peers. When I moved to Thailand I felt the same need for the local people including my children. Then I met the few from the wife's village whose families had sacrificed to get their daughters/sons educated in the University. Fifteen year later the majority of the graduates are not making enough to support themselves without a roommate or two. Granted their degrees are not world class but neither is Thailand. Business, Thai Culture, Mass communication, etc graduates in CM are working with 10 to 15 year experience and making less than 12,000 baht a month. I know three who have gone to work as cooks/manager of restaurant as tips pushed their income above the graduate scale.I would be hard pressed to justify the economic of getting a University degree with the opportunities available on Thailand, and this probably plays a part in the lackadaisical attitude of many of the students.

[IMA_FARANG]

Tell me a non communist country that have no rich poor gap.

I would also say,"Show mw a communist country that has no rich poor gap". Communist China is a good example. The farmers in China have a far different life style than the city workers do, and the Chinese recognise it as a major problem for their country's future development. To be fair, they are trying to change that situation...but they haven't managed to do it yet either.

As I've said before on this forum, look at the difference between Singapore and Thailand today. In 1949 after the end of WWII both Thailand and Singapore were at roughly the same level. Singapore had been devastated by the war.

So why the difference today between Singapore and Thailand today? I could spend hours discussing that but at least a few reasons stand out.

1. Singapore...an honest (no corruption) governement with the old-fashioned Chinese virtue that "a government official serves the people who elect him/her first".

2. A well-educated population.

3. A social/economic system that is designed to grow from the "bottom-up" (i.e. where government investment goes into the poorest sectors first through forced savings of workers because the government requires all workers to put a percentage of their salary into a government savings bank account) as opposed to a "top-down social/economic system (profits go to the richest sector first and are used to buy consumer goods...not a forced savings account as Singapore has/had for many years.)

But anyway, I've said this all before. No on listened then and I don't think they will now. I'll just say,once again, a Capitalist top-down system won't work in a country like Thailand. Look at Singapore's growth from 1950 to 1965 or so and see what a bottom-up forced savings social/economic system did for them in that time.

Edited June 17, 2010 by IMA_FARANG

[misterjag]

Rest assured, there won't be any lack of political will following an election.

[eggomaniac]

Suthichai Yoon, All of the thought and effort and the good intentions and hope you have for Thailand, turn it towards the real #1 cause of the Kingdoms problems, please. As I have explained before, both the Red AND Yellow leaders can only benefit by spreading the false notion that 'classes" is the problem. It allows them to perpetuate the existence of the pig trough.

Until corruption, bribery, election bullying, conflicts of intererest among elected officials is taken off the tracks, the train for a propserpous Thailand is not going to get out of the station.

Class disinction, is NOT, what you call, the 'hottest' issue; indemic government corruption is the first priority. Thailand would become a G30 Nation IF they attained a Stable, Beneficial level of Rule and adopted the teaching of the recognised official language of the World.

Right now, Thailand is not even on the Next 11 list with the Philipines and Viet Nam.

Thank Vishnu that Abhisit has come out and recognised corruption as the #1 cause of the problems. [societies can live with class distinctions, it is corruption that canNOT be tolerated. It's like allowing a goal on a hand ball.]

First he talked about Polling, now he has the brilliance to recognise corruption as the number 1 problem.

Either he is a genius, or he has been reading the Emails I sent to his website.

My Posts in this forum, and emails to Thais for nearly 2 years, have been professing the inherent dangers of the quasi Western political system in Thailand AND I have been proposing Remedies with The Joseph Plan and The Joseph Solution which would bring about Stability, Peace, and [honest] Prosperity to the Monarchical Realm of Thailand, quickly.

It's so GREAT to see the PM and so many other news articles, like one in the BP, and so many TV Posters pointing out the where the root cause of the problem lies.

Diagnosis is GREAT, but everybody is still fumbling for Solutions. We see, "it will take a long time" a LOT.

It could take mere months!

About the POLLS they are planning . 95% of Polls are commissioned to educate companies, political organisations, lobby groups how to best move and profit from the masses. Thailand NEEDS polling that educates the People on how there are more similarities among them than differences!

Edited June 17, 2010 by eggomaniac

[Thai at Heart]

Suthichai Yoon, All of the thought and effort and the good intentions and hope you have for Thailand, turn it towards the real #1 cause of the Kingdoms problems, please.

Until corruption, bribery, election bullying, conflicts of intererest among elected officials is taken off the tracks, the train for propserpous Thailand is not going to get out of the station.

Class disinction, is NOT, what you call, the 'hottest' issue, indemic government corruption is the first priority. Thailand would become a G30 Nation IF they attained a Stable, Beneficial level of Rule and adopted the teaching of the recognised official language of the World.

Right now, Thailand is not even on the Next 11 list with the Philipines and Viet Nam.

Thank Vishnu that Abhisit has come out and recognised corruption as the #1 cause of the problems. [societies can live with class distinctions, it is corruption that canNOT be tolerated. It's like allowing a goal on a hand ball.]

First he talked about Polling, now he has the brilliance to recognise corruption as the number 1 problem.

Either he is a genius, or he has been reading the Emails I sent to his website.

My Posts in this forum, and emails to Thais for nearly 2 years, have been professing the inherent dangers of the quasi Western political system in Thailand AND I have been proposing Remedies with The Joseph Plan and The Joseph Solution which would bring about Stability, Peace, and [honest] Prosperity to the Monarchical Realm of Thailand, quickly.

It's so GREAT to see the PM and so many other news articles, like one in the BP, and so many TV Posters pointing out the where the root cause of the problem lies.

Diagnosis is GREAT, but everybody is still fumbling for Solutions. We see, "it will take a long time" a LOT.

It could take mere months!

I wouldn't quite call it brilliance to work out that Thailand has a distinct problem with corruption. I think he has lived here a while long enough to know about it. I hear he even speaks, reads and writes Thai, so it shouldn't be too hard for him to work it out.

Isn't his party up on an election funding case soon?

[eggomaniac]

Suthichai Yoon, All of the thought and effort and the good intentions and hope you have for Thailand, turn it towards the real #1 cause of the Kingdoms problems, please.

Until corruption, bribery, election bullying, conflicts of intererest among elected officials is taken off the tracks, the train for propserpous Thailand is not going to get out of the station.

Class disinction, is NOT, what you call, the 'hottest' issue, indemic government corruption is the first priority. Thailand would become a G30 Nation IF they attained a Stable, Beneficial level of Rule and adopted the teaching of the recognised official language of the World.

Right now, Thailand is not even on the Next 11 list with the Philipines and Viet Nam.

Thank Vishnu that Abhisit has come out and recognised corruption as the #1 cause of the problems. [societies can live with class distinctions, it is corruption that canNOT be tolerated. It's like allowing a goal on a hand ball.]

First he talked about Polling, now he has the brilliance to recognise corruption as the number 1 problem.

Either he is a genius, or he has been reading the Emails I sent to his website.

My Posts in this forum, and emails to Thais for nearly 2 years, have been professing the inherent dangers of the quasi Western political system in Thailand AND I have been proposing Remedies with The Joseph Plan and The Joseph Solution which would bring about Stability, Peace, and [honest] Prosperity to the Monarchical Realm of Thailand, quickly.

It's so GREAT to see the PM and so many other news articles, like one in the BP, and so many TV Posters pointing out the where the root cause of the problem lies.

Diagnosis is GREAT, but everybody is still fumbling for Solutions. We see, "it will take a long time" a LOT.

It could take mere months!

I wouldn't quite call it brilliance to work out that Thailand has a distinct problem with corruption. I think he has lived here a while long enough to know about it. I hear he even speaks, reads and writes Thai, so it shouldn't be too hard for him to work it out.

Isn't his party up on an election funding case soon?

okay, everybody talks about corruption in Thailand and in every other country as well, HOWEVER, I challenge you to find ANY news reports or opinions, or Posts, not counting mine, of cousre, that NAME political corruption as the main cause of the turmoil in Thailand. you will find, this list of causes > paid flunkies of Thaksin, class divisions, anti monarchist commies, anger at Thaksin's funds getting confiscated, the coup, and so on....

It is so REFRESHING to hear the PM, and others nailing down the gang land style fight among the pigs to get their noses in the pig trough, red AND yellow pigs, as the MAIN cause of the conflict. People have lived harmoniously with class differences, NO, they need to! They love football players getting $billions to kick a ball around, BUT a goal allowed on a missed offside call LOOK OUT!

If you can find anybody, before 2 weeks ago, who has been clearly describing the root cause of the problem, like I have, please forward me the Links. [There were some who named corruption in second place, after class divide, but that is just not true.] the seats of corruption are the number 1 PROBLEM

-----------------

AND what is up with all of those order of this and cub scout badge this that every Elite in Thailand worships so much?

Can you spell 'tribalism'. A real Buddhist would not accept, let alone covet such badges. sheesh - for Vishnu's sake, can they be that childish?

Edited June 18, 2010 by eggomaniac