Farang Population Explosion Continues

[Berkshire]

Just read the Stickman's latest weekly column which discusses the topic of this thread. While I'm sure there are expats coming and going every year, I'd tend to agree with the Stickman that more are coming than leaving. Much more. This basically contradicts many of the opinions on this board, predicting the demise of Thailand. So why is it that there's so much negative opinions of Thai's and Thailand on these TV boards—giving the false impression that life is truly horrible here and that everyone's bailing like rats exiting a sinking ship—when the opposite is actually the case? Perhaps we're seeing a shift in the types of farangs that come to Thailand, as the ones who can't afford it here any more (and complains the most!) leave and the ones who can afford it and are better adjusted stay. I hope this is the case. It reminds me of what I posted awhile back, on which thread I don't recall. But it segregates the farangs in Thailand into two types. TV is just congested with the Cat 2's. What Thailand needs more of are the Cat 1's.

Categories of Farangs in Thailand:

Cat 1: Tries to integrate into society, mostly through understanding, patience, respect, and tolerance. Learns the language to be able to communicate with the locals and his/her mate. Is well-mannered and generally liked by all, Thai's and farangs alike. Has strong adaptation skills, is well adjusted, and for the most part, has a happier time in Thailand. Considers Cat 2 farangs to be hopeless whiners and crybabies.

Cat 2: Refuses to integrate into Thai society or learn the language. Attacks the "Thai way" at every opportunity, and chastises those who defends the locals. Is pretty miserable most of the time, but truly believes in the saying "misery loves company," so will attack those in Cat 1 for being too well-adjusted and happy. Considers Cat 1 farangs Thai apologists and Thai wannabes.

[george]

It's certainly many disgruntled expats living here.

It was bad in their home country, now it's bad here.

[mahtin]

Addendum to Cat1.: does not waste time in General.

Guilty, m'lud.

[cdnvic]

Uncertainty certainly has a lot of people on edge. One thing I've noticed though is that the longer someone's been in Thailand, the less worried they tend to be.

[carnac]

My butt's asleep.

[Jingthing]

I am a mix of BOTH categories, and I bet my bottom baht, that MOST expats are also a mix. So basically I think the categories are total rubbish.

[filingaccount]

I would contend there are infinitely more categories than that, 1 category per person no less.

Seems a bit silly to bunch people up in "categories" based on very narrow observations and opinion.

Personally I would really like to see some statistics to back up at least some of the most frivolous statements. (eg. the implied "poor people are not well adjusted.")

Also, one wonders which category OP think he might be in. Self reflection is a powerful thing.

If it is even true (no stats exists afaik), maybe OP should consider that perhaps the reason for more negative than positive comments here on Thaivisa (and on most message boards worldwide in every topic) is explained a little easier than "Category 2 people".

Normally people tend to post to ask for advice of an occurrence of negative effect. Why? Simply to ask for advice, input and/or general feedback. Part of a message boards use is to spread information, and most information we need/share are warnings of <bad stuff>.

[Jingthing]

This kind of topic is designed to warm the hearts of the hard core "Thai-ier than Thais" but as a reflection of actual real life expat reality, it simply doesn't reflect it.

[hansum]

I dont speak the language or really mix with anyone apart from the mother of my kid and very occasionally with her family.

But I have a very good job, i rarely drink, dont go whoring, go to the gym most days, am polite, raise a kid in a very good environment and live a quiet life ... and yes i do like a whine about driving standards, people not opening doors, women having no common sense (applies everywhere imho), visa runs (tomorrow)/ milk not being good enough for a decent cup of tea, price of cheese and lack of choice, that mint sauce jelly crap not being upto my impeccable standards, builders waking me up at 8am every morning .... the list is endless

The author missed Cat 3.

Westerners who speak the language and look down on and criticise all others, but never complain about anything, they even enjoy being bitten by mosquitos like Ned Flanders.

[cdnvic]

Westerners who speak the language and look down on and criticise all others, but never complain about anything, they even enjoy being bitten by mosquitos like Ned Flanders.

I didn't know Ned was a mosquito

[Chunky1]

hansum, I noticed in another post that you ask for advice on getting a bus ticket to Cambodia from Pattaya. No offense but that combination: Living Pattaya, Visa bus runs, visiting Cambodia... sounds a bit farang kee nok.

Perhaps this is the real reason you complain so much?

Edited June 21, 2010 by Chunky1

[GarryP]

I'm in a category of my own. I am understanding, but with very little patience, give respect and am tolerant but have no desire to integrate with Thai society as a whole. I speak the lingo but that is for my own selfish reasons and have no desire to talk to all and sundry in Thai, or English for that matter (apart from here so to speak ). I am well mannered (or at least believe I am) because there is no reason not to be. I do not attack any particular group. I am all for equal opportunity. A dumb sh&t is a dumb s#it regardless where he/she comes from, the color of his skin, religion, sexual orientation, etc. But I am reasonably happy.

Now back on topic, I hadn't noticed any explosion but then I don't get out much.

[hansum]

hansum, I noticed in another post that you ask for advice on getting a bus ticket to Cambodia from Pattaya. No offense but that combination: Living Pattaya, Visa bus runs, visiting Cambodia... sounds a bit farang kee nok.

Perhaps this is the real reason you complain so much?

You shouldnt jump to conclusions .... My reason for being here is so i can legally avoid paying the British govt. about 55,000 pounds a year in tax for the next 3 yrs as i'll be working offshore 1 month on 1 month off.

I'm in Jomtien as the mother of my child recently came back to Thailand to give birth, and possibly live for a few years after giving up quite a good job in England, she didnt wish to live in BKK due to the troubles last month when i was looking for an apartment.... so as some stability is needed i rented a place here for 3 months .... i was going to move to BKK yesterday and become part of high society but im too tight to lose my deposit after only 1 month of being here.

Besides the milk is crap here for a decent cup of tea.

Edited June 21, 2010 by hansum

[Berkshire]

I am a mix of BOTH categories, and I bet my bottom baht, that MOST expats are also a mix. So basically I think the categories are total rubbish.

Obviously, two categories won't nearly cover it all. I could have created several dozen categories and it wouldn't have covered it all. I'm just trying to make a point. And keep it simple at the same time. By the way, there are many categories of Thai's. Yet the readers on this forum tend to bunch all Thai's into one or two categories as well. Wouldn't you agree?

[Berkshire]

I would contend there are infinitely more categories than that, 1 category per person no less.

Seems a bit silly to bunch people up in "categories" based on very narrow observations and opinion.

Personally I would really like to see some statistics to back up at least some of the most frivolous statements. (eg. the implied "poor people are not well adjusted.")

Also, one wonders which category OP think he might be in. Self reflection is a powerful thing.

If it is even true (no stats exists afaik), maybe OP should consider that perhaps the reason for more negative than positive comments here on Thaivisa (and on most message boards worldwide in every topic) is explained a little easier than "Category 2 people".

Normally people tend to post to ask for advice of an occurrence of negative effect. Why? Simply to ask for advice, input and/or general feedback. Part of a message boards use is to spread information, and most information we need/share are warnings of <bad stuff>.

Regarding categories, please read my other post. As for me, I'd say I'm Cat 1. As for the so-called "negative effect," I beg to differ. My problem with many of the posters is how they complain. Case in point:

Acceptable complaining:

Somchai ripped me off. Somchai is a bad man.

Typical TV complaining:

Somchai ripped me off. Somchai is Thai. All Thai's are bad.

More TV:

Expat 1: Somchai ripped me off. Somchai is a bad man.

Expat 2: Yes, Thai's are such devious and dishonet people.

Expat 3: All Thai's are evil!

Expat 4: My GF lied to me again. Thai women are such lying sluts!

Expat 5: I asked for no ice in my Coke and the Thai gave me half a cup! Thai's are such crooks!

Expat 6: And they can't even walk on the correct side of the sidewalk! Thai's are so uncivilized!

And so on....

[Berkshire]

This kind of topic is designed to warm the hearts of the hard core "Thai-ier than Thais" but as a reflection of actual real life expat reality, it simply doesn't reflect it.

You're killing me. "Actual real life expat reality??" Well I'm an expat, and I'm pretty real. Just pinched myself a second ago. What on earth are you talking about?

[Jingthing]

This kind of topic is designed to warm the hearts of the hard core "Thai-ier than Thais" but as a reflection of actual real life expat reality, it simply doesn't reflect it.

You're killing me. "Actual real life expat reality??" Well I'm an expat, and I'm pretty real. Just pinched myself a second ago. What on earth are you talking about?

I'm killing you? You had best contact the authorities, my dear.

[hansum]

Regarding categories, please read my other post. As for me, I'd say I'm Cat 1. As for the so-called "negative effect," I beg to differ. My problem with many of the posters is how they complain. Case in point:

Acceptable complaining:

Somchai ripped me off. Somchai is a bad man.

Typical TV complaining:

Somchai ripped me off. Somchai is Thai. All Thai's are bad.

And so on....

Do you seriously believe the average person living here whether they speak Thai or not thinks like that?

Edited June 21, 2010 by hansum

[Berkshire]

Regarding categories, please read my other post. As for me, I'd say I'm Cat 1. As for the so-called "negative effect," I beg to differ. My problem with many of the posters is how they complain. Case in point:

Acceptable complaining:

Somchai ripped me off. Somchai is a bad man.

Typical TV complaining:

Somchai ripped me off. Somchai is Thai. All Thai's are bad.

And so on....

Do you seriously believe the average person living here whether they speak Thai or not thinks like that?

If ThaiVisa is any indication, absolutely.

[Slip]

The OP is, sadly, just the flip side of the coin of the very people he is complaining about. There are some good points on here about the diversity of people wherever you go.

I'm not sure the new people arriving necessarily fit in the categories offered.

Typo

Edited June 21, 2010 by Slip

[filingaccount]

...

Typical TV complaining:

Somchai ripped me off. Somchai is Thai. All Thai's are bad.

More TV:

Expat 1: Somchai ripped me off. Somchai is a bad man.

Expat 2: Yes, Thai's are such devious and dishonet people.

Expat 3: All Thai's are evil!

Expat 4: My GF lied to me again. Thai women are such lying sluts!

Expat 5: I asked for no ice in my Coke and the Thai gave me half a cup! Thai's are such crooks!

Expat 6: And they can't even walk on the correct side of the sidewalk! Thai's are so uncivilized!

And so on....

Would you mind showing some verifiable statistics on that? Or is it just "feeling", or "it's what I see so it must be true", or "because I think I am better because I think I'm in "Category 1" so I can state whatever I want"?

Inquiring minds wants to know how you can post these kinds of things bashing a group of people and still state you are "understanding, patient, respectful, and tolerant" (as per Cat 1)...

Wonderful troll post, and I am enjoying it. Please reply again.

[Tejas]

It's certainly many disgruntled expats living here.

It was bad in their home country, now it's bad here.

I think you hit on an important point: "It was bad in their home country. ..."

There is no "explosion" of immigrants unless you want to add all of the illegal immigrants from neighboring countries.

There is no mass exodus.

It is something in between.

A lot of the older expats are stuck here...most don't want to leave but some do.

Others already have (and some of the best people you would ever want to meet).

What seems to be happening is that the developed world is in serious economic trouble.........workers were not able to save enough money to retire; pensions are not enough if at all.

So, many foreigners in this situation still see Thailand as an opportunity to live a decent lifestyle on low income, but that has become increasingly difficult (so, myth does not meet reality).

They become disgruntled............now the country they left seems bad and they country they migrated to seems like it is getting worse by the day.

Demographers call this "push pull factors." One one side you are being pushed out; one the other you are being pulled in.

The pattern will stop when it becomes obvious Thailand is no longer a bargain and other countries in the region offer realistic (sanook) alternatives that are much less expensive.

That is happening now............but it will take time for Vietnam and Cambodia to get their acts together.

[GuestHouse]

The trick (or should I say trap) within the OPs categorization of Farangs into two simplistic groups is that it allows him, and others who share his saffron tinted view of Thailand, to dismiss anyone they disagree with as having failed to learn the language, failed to integrate (Failed to be an all round good egg of the type that the OP presumably regards himself to be).

The gaping hole in the OP's argument is that there are very legitimate criticisms of Thailand and life for expats in Thailand and that many of the people expressing these views do speak the language, have integrated and may in most respects live very happy lives in Thailand - Their crime to understand and care about the place (or perhaps the future of their family in Thailand).

And of course, a guy straight off the plane might very well spot something and comment on something that is entirely correct, not because he speaks the language, or because he's integrated but because he sees something with fresh eyes.

What is very curious, and frequently demonstrated here on TV, is the need some people seem to have to tell others what is an acceptable opinion.

I've said it many times - Other people's negative views of Thailand have absolutely no bearing on my outlook - It does not bother me one jot if someone complains about Thailand I still enjoy or not enjoy my day according to the way I find it, not the way someone else sees it.

Now if I was denying some unsavory truth about the place and someone else started pointing out what I was denying - I might possibly be a tad disturbed by them doing so.

[maccaroni man]

This kind of topic is designed to warm the hearts of the hard core "Thai-ier than Thais" but as a reflection of actual real life expat reality, it simply doesn't reflect it.

i agree and the fact is there was a much better post some where on the forum that broke down the many phases of expat life in los 2 cats is unreal unlees you want to call cat 1 going native and cat 2 being your own person while living outside your country of birth.

[t.s]

Uncertainty certainly has a lot of people on edge. One thing I've noticed though is that the longer someone's been in Thailand, the less worried they tend to be.

i think that is a very astute observation. I hadn't considered the correlation, but since you bring it up, it is pretty obvious.

[siamamerican]

Cat 1: Winners

Cat 2: Losers

80% of ex-pats in Thailand are losers and have always been losers. They complain about Thais without realizing their obvious personal shortcomings. It's easier for them to try to bring down those of us that are enjoying Thailand and mixing with locals. I guess I'm the fool for enjoying myself and should waste more energy complaining.

[Ulysses G.]

The pattern will stop when it becomes obvious Thailand is no longer a bargain and other countries in the region offer realistic (sanook) alternatives that are much less expensive.

That is happening now............but it will take time for Vietnam and Cambodia to get their acts together.

In many ways, they are more expensive than Thailand now and the more developed they become, the more expensive a comfortable life will be. Usually, the cheapest countries are also dangerous and that is why Thailand has  always been such a bargain compared to Cambodia or the Philipines. It has always been shady, but not as dangerous as similar places. 

[StreetCowboy]

Cat 1: Winners

Cat 2: Losers

80% of ex-pats in Thailand are losers and have always been losers. They complain about Thais without realizing their obvious personal shortcomings. It's easier for them to try to bring down those of us that are enjoying Thailand and mixing with locals. I guess I'm the fool for enjoying myself and should waste more energy complaining.

I am delighted to award you the FA Cup for your contribution to intelligent debate.

Your generalisations are amongst the best to date, although more precision in the invented statistics would have helped.

I think the sarcasm could have been better; in fact, I would recommend saving it for a different post, as it detracts from the overall message of arrogant snobbery.

______________________

I was going to say that I hope you enjoyed your last meal, but that sort of vile spleen is never justified on an internet forum, and could result in appalling regrets later.

I wish you all the best, and hope you can see your way to a slightly more tolerant view of your fellow men. Notwithstanding, I am glad that I don't know you personally.

SC

[borisloosebrain]

hansum, I noticed in another post that you ask for advice on getting a bus ticket to Cambodia from Pattaya. No offense but that combination: Living Pattaya, Visa bus runs, visiting Cambodia... sounds a bit farang kee nok.

Perhaps this is the real reason you complain so much?

You shouldnt jump to conclusions .... My reason for being here is so i can legally avoid paying the British govt. about 55,000 pounds a year in tax for the next 3 yrs as i'll be working offshore 1 month on 1 month off.

I'm in Jomtien as the mother of my child recently came back to Thailand to give birth, and possibly live for a few years after giving up quite a good job in England, she didnt wish to live in BKK due to the troubles last month when i was looking for an apartment.... so as some stability is needed i rented a place here for 3 months .... i was going to move to BKK yesterday and become part of high society but im too tight to lose my deposit after only 1 month of being here.

Besides the milk is crap here for a decent cup of tea.

Thought of buying a cow ?

[moe666]

From reading Thaivisa I thought there was a positive outflow to those unfounded paradises; PI ugh bad food, Laos, Cambodia both stuck in the 70's, Vietnam didn't like it in 1970 they wanted to kill me, and hehe Burma only one or two. I often wonder how many of the posters who promoted these locations actually moved.