Gay Ban At Campsite Before Tribunal

[peter991]

Gay ban at campsite before tribunal

Source: news.com.au

A VICTORIAN tribunal will be asked to decide if a Christian group can discriminate against gay people for religious reasons.

The Christian Brethren will face the discrimination complaint tomorrow after it stopped a suicide prevention project for gay youths from using its facilities three years ago.

While some religious groups have exemptions under the state's equal opportunity act allowing for sexual discrimination, the group lodging the complaint will argue those exemptions end when it's involved in a commercial operation.

The complaint to be heard at Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal arose when the Christian Brethren's campsite on Phillip Island was booked in 2007.

Gay youth support group WayOut had hoped to use the Phillip Island Adventure Resort to host young homosexual men and women who've faced discrimination in rural Victoria.

Read more ...

Comment: Should church-run businesses should not be exempt from state laws banning discrimination?

[tombkk]

My trake on it:

Churches are private organisations. They stand for certain values that not everyone has to share. I certainly don't share the values of the church mentioned in the article.

However, if I own a resort and I have certain values, I reserve the right to not let anybody who violates those values rent the resort. Therefore, I believe the church has a right to refuse any renters. And frankly, I don't know why the group trying to help young homosexuals even want to rent a hostile Christian place.

For me, this is a non-issue: If you don't want my group, tsks, we go somewhere else.

[Jingthing]

B.S. So it's OK to discriminate by race as well? Mormons used openly do this to blacks. They changed their tune due to government laws. The same laws should apply to gays. Cheers.

[tombkk]

B.S. So it's OK to discriminate by race as well? Mormons used openly do this to blacks. They changed their tune due to government laws. The same laws should apply to gays. Cheers.

I reserve the right to choose who enters my private property. Yes indeed. And I base that on my own personal values. Incidentally, I am not a racist, thanks for your insinuation. I discriminate by how people deal with life.

I don't know what the Mormons did and what the legal implications were. I also don't know why anybody who is rejected by a private group would sue them for entry. I can open a private club for blond guys only and refuse entry to brunettes or to women. (I'm neither, this is just a point-in-case.) In fact, I have been to many gay clubs all over the world that clearly stated "entrance for gays only" (sometimes in other words) and was almost refused entry a few times.

That's totally different for public services. Public services must provide the same for any race, political opinion, sexual orientation, and so on. Public servants are paid by everybody in the society, so they have to accommodate everybody. Including myself and the people who are against me.

[Jingthing]

I insinuated absolutely NOTHING about you. I was merely making an ethical argument against discrimination in general. Also, your private premises is not the same thing as a public group, like a church.

BTW, I have never encountered a club with the words for gays only on it. That would be wrong too but I think you are exaggerating the pervasiveness of that. Of course, if it was a gay sauna for example and a man wanted to go there, well, that's really gay anyway. Yes, I know women would usually be banned from such places. I think there is a good rationale for that, but yes a grey area of inconsistency there, sure.

Edited July 6, 2010 by Jingthing

[tombkk]

I insinuated absolutely NOTHING about you. I was merely making an ethical argument against discrimination in general. Also, your private premises is not the same thing as a public group, like a church.

Thanks for your clarification that you did not insinuate anything about me. My apologies for jumping to conclusions.

A church is a private group of people who believe in the same god, or in the same interpretation of a book they consider holy. Very much like a club that thinks that their car model is the best in the world. If you really believe that the Toyota Vigo is the best truck in the world, I don't think the law should force you to accept membership applications of Nissan Navara enthusiasts.

[Jingthing]

From the OP -

those exemptions end when it's involved in a commercial operation.

Good luck to the gay youth!

[tombkk]

I insinuated absolutely NOTHING about you. I was merely making an ethical argument against discrimination in general. Also, your private premises is not the same thing as a public group, like a church.

BTW, I have never encountered a club with the words for gays only on it. That would be wrong too but I think you are exaggerating the pervasiveness of that. Of course, if it was a gay sauna for example and a man wanted to go there, well, that's really gay anyway. Yes, I know women would usually be banned from such places. I think there is a good rationale for that, but yes a grey area of inconsistency there, sure.

Am I hallucinating or did you change your reply since I first saw it?

Anyway, let me reply to the second part. Both in Paris and in Milan, a huge bumper in front of the discos looked down at me and said, "we are a gay club". I replied to both with almost the same wording: "I know, that's why I'm here". And they let me in. In Amsterdam, I was not so lucky, and the bumper suggested I find another disco.

I accept the decision by the bumper on behalf of the onwer: They can certainly choose who they will let onto their private premises.

Yes, and I do know saunas that won't let women (or other people with breasts) in. It's their prerogative.

And I still don't understand why anybody who is not appreciated would want to sue their way in... Would you care to explain this to me?

[Jingthing]

Night clubs weeding out people who don't fit their image of cool is par for the course. Gay and straight places do that.

If a gay business tells a person it is a gay club the usual reason is that the person doesn't look gay and they don't want the person to freak out and perhaps cause a problem due to homophobia. Again, I have never seen a sign saying Gays Only Allowed in and I doubt you have either.

There have been problems in the US anyway of gay clubs being racist against certain groups, usually blacks, but also gay black clubs being unwelcoming to non-blacks. I don't like that kind of thing, but really, I never claimed gays were all perfect either.

Sue our way in? It depends whether it is worth it or not to individuals or groups. Surely, some fights are worth it, such as the fight for gay boys to be allowed into the boy scouts, and equal treatment for gays in the military, etc.

Edited July 7, 2010 by Jingthing

[elkangorito]

"The idea was to bring these people together because, before that, they may have never met anybody else who was going through what they were," said Anne Mitchell, associate professor at the Australian Research Centre for Sex, Health and Society.

The Christian Brethren says the booking was cancelled because WayOut promotes homosexual activity, which it says is against its understanding of the bible.

99.9% of gay people were/are not 'promoted' into their current homosexual lifestyles.

Also & thanks to bigots like these brethren, gay people do have personal problems, which can be alleviated or circumvented simply by meeting similar people. Obviously, this is what the 'camp' was about.

I grew up in country Australia. Until I was about 16, I had no idea that there were other gay people on earth. I thought I was the only one. After I learnt that 'I' was 'illegal', I was 'shit scared' to tell anybody due to fear of imprisonment/forced therapy/rejection etc etc. Nobody made me gay. I was born this way.

When I was 22, I actually went to my first gay bar...to my complete shock.

After about 11 years of self induced deep depression, I had a change in life, which I did myself. I released myself from the grip of homophobia after years of self torture.

If there were such things as gay camps back in my day, I probably wouldn't have 'shut out' my family & friends, & not endured the extremely self destructive path that I chose to take.

The Christian Brethren are obviously not very Christian. Their belief is that homosexuality is a disease & can be spread to everybody. These kind of people are 'boils on the bum of society' & need to be immediately lanced.

[tombkk]

Night clubs weeding out people who don't fit their image of cool is par for the course. Gay and straight places do that.

If a gay business tells a person it is a gay club the usual reason is that the person doesn't look gay and they don't want the person to freak out and perhaps cause a problem due to homophobia. Again, I have never seen a sign saying Gays Only Allowed in and I doubt you have either.

You are right, I exaggerated. There was no such sign, but a screening at the door.

There have been problems in the US anyway of gay clubs being racist against certain groups, usually blacks, but also gay black clubs being unwelcoming to non-blacks. I don't like that kind of thing, but really, I never claimed gays were all perfect either.

Sue our way in? It depends whether it is worth it or not to individuals or groups. Surely, some fights are worth it, such as the fight for gay boys to be allowed into the boy scouts, and equal treatment for gays in the military, etc.

I agree with you. I never had anything to do with the boyscouts, but police and military are public services and therefore should welcome citizens of all couleurs, if physically and mentally fit, having the right mindset (i.e. not entertaining terrorist ideas) etc. This should have nothing to do with whether anybody is male or female, straight or gay.

[Jingthing]

Maybe this is a good time to recall interesting signage at the entrances of gay businesses.

Somewhat common -- NO FRAGRANCES!

[twschw]

http://cyc.org.au/piar/generalinfo/

From the website it would seem that the resort is open to the public and is not a private club. No where is there a mention that gays are not allowed. This seems a bit deceptive to me.